The UU Dark Horse Project

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warzoid

I have several gelatinous friends
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
So, I'm not sure if I'll be breaking 1500 this month, but maybe you folks can give some feedback which can change that.

Non-DH:



Umbreon and Crobat are a great defensive core. Cleric + Defog support, pretty standard

DH:



Granbull is a fantastic wall in the current meta. It's bulk and typing is fantastic in the current meta (hello Mence and Hera, goodbye Rachi). After Intimidate, it's bulk is nothing short of impressive:

-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Granbull: 142-168 (36.9 - 43.7%) -- 99.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252 Atk Adaptability Mega Beedrill Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Granbull: 224-268 (58.3 - 69.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252+ Atk Life Orb Salamence Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Granbull: 187-221 (48.6 - 57.5%) -- 49.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Guts Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Granbull: 135-159 (35.1 - 41.4%) -- 76.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Guts Heracross Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Granbull: 211-249 (54.9 - 64.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Krookodile Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Granbull: 132-156 (34.3 - 40.6%) -- 42.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Granbull: 200-238 (52 - 61.9%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

These calcs are impressive considering these are the top wallbreakers currently in UU. That calc on Mega Beedrill actually saved me. I ran a RestTalk set and it is 100% viable in the current meta. Having double heal bell support probably wasn't necessary, but maybe Fire Punch would be good to bop the bulky steels that switch in.

Overall Score: 8/10

Reason: Special bulk and no recovery outside of RestTalk. Intimidate is only a one time use, so it can allow a 2nd physical attacker to start boosting.


Seismitoad is something I love playing with. 105/75/75 bulk with immunity to electric and water moves is huge. Water Absorb, SR, Scald, EQ and Knock Off played a huge role in my choice of Toad over say Gastrodon, Quagsire or Swampy, which do similar jobs. If you factor in Intimidate from Granbull (which has excellent synergy with Steel attacks), then this toad can last a while lol

Overall Score: 8/10

Reason: No reliable recovery again and it's attacking stats are a little low at 95/85. But, overall definitely able to hold it's own in the current meta with the right support.


AV Escavalier is really good in the meta. If you combine it with Seismitoads resists and immunities, with Granbull's Intimidate, and it only has to fear special Fire attacks (Hydre, Chandy, Nidos), which are easy to scout for. 70/105/105 bulk is very nice, combined with Overcoat (Sleep Powders, Hail, etc..) and it had plenty of switch ins. Random Scalds were absorbed by Toad, while physical attackers were checked by Granbull/Seismitoad. Very good overall.

The 6th Position

Now, this is the position I always have trouble with. I have a cleric, defogger, bulky offensive walls and this spot is always up for grabs. I tried Mega Scept with Leech Seed and it was OK. Mega Amphy/Pidgeot were good candidates as well. I had about 6.10% to play around with. This spot has always been pretty tough and usually can make/break some games. I just can't find one mon that really jives with the rest of the team. I am focused more on a special attacker, since my team is pretty physical (Crobat, Escavalier, Umbreon, Granbull). Here are some ideas I've been playing with:

Work Up Refresh M-Pidgeot
Agility M-Ampharos
Gimmicky Magician set with Delphox (new pinch berries were just released, so I'm tempted to try something with Magician)
CM Reuniclus (good synergy with team and breaks stall)
CritDra (Focus Energy +Agiltiy)
M-Camerupt (STABs are real wall breakers)
Yanmega (LO Speedboosting)

Any thoughts? I'm currently stuck at just under 1400 (dropped a bunch).
Your team appears to have a really solid defensive core and shouldn't have too many problems wearing down offensive teams, but I feel like balance and stall will give you a lot of problems. Your team is pretty passive, and you don't have any wallbreakers or setup sweepers to threaten opposing walls. It looks like stuff like Vaporeon can just pass Wishes for days. In addition, you just straight up lose to CurseLax, and CroCune also beats your team once it PP stalls Toad.

You could try running CM Reuniclus with Psyshock and Focus Blast to beat Curselax and CroCune. I also think you should switch to Choice Band on Escavalier so that you can break some walls. I've also heard legends of an epic SD RestTalk Escavalier set, but I haven't tried it myself so I don't know how well it would work.
 
Finally reached C rank lol. For some reason, I've been having escavaliers and mega aggrons pretty much every single match :(. (RIP slurpuff). Anyways, here it is: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-209553314. Final team was: aerodactyl, slurpuff, zoroark, shaymin, forretress, and chandelure. (Dark horses bolded :)) Going to stop for now, that took longer than I thought it would.
 
Your team appears to have a really solid defensive core and shouldn't have too many problems wearing down offensive teams, but I feel like balance and stall will give you a lot of problems. Your team is pretty passive, and you don't have any wallbreakers or setup sweepers to threaten opposing walls. It looks like stuff like Vaporeon can just pass Wishes for days. In addition, you just straight up lose to CurseLax, and CroCune also beats your team once it PP stalls Toad.

You could try running CM Reuniclus with Psyshock and Focus Blast to beat Curselax and CroCune. I also think you should switch to Choice Band on Escavalier so that you can break some walls. I've also heard legends of an epic SD RestTalk Escavalier set, but I haven't tried it myself so I don't know how well it would work.
Yeah wallbreaking is an issue tbh. Crocune i would knock off leftiee and use the 6th slot to do something (leech seee from mega scept, etc..). Cm reuniclus does sound good as does CB escavalier. Ill give them both a try.thanks for the advice!


Edit: CoolStoryBrobat can i switch out escavalier for a different DH? Pangoro specifically? I honestly picked escavalier for like specificially serperior who was banned derp lol
 
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CoolStoryBrobat

The hero Smogon needs, but not the one it deserves
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Yeah wallbreaking is an issue tbh. Crocune i would knock off leftiee and use the 6th slot to do something (leech seee from mega scept, etc..). Cm reuniclus does sound good as does CB escavalier. Ill give them both a try.thanks for the advice!


Edit: CoolStoryBrobat can i switch out escavalier for a different DH? Pangoro specifically? I honestly picked escavalier for like specificially serperior who was banned derp lol
You know the rules by now...if your team's below 35% after the changes then yes you may use that instead
 
Finally reached C rank lol. For some reason, I've been having escavaliers and mega aggrons pretty much every single match :(. (RIP slurpuff). Anyways, here it is: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-209553314. Final team was: aerodactyl, slurpuff, zoroark, shaymin, forretress, and chandelure. (Dark horses bolded :)) Going to stop for now, that took longer than I thought it would.
Any suggestions on how I could improve my team? I'd like to know before I consider shooting for B rank.
 
Any suggestions on how I could improve my team? I'd like to know before I consider shooting for B rank.
Chandelure should be able to handle both tbh for mega aggron. If you slap on a specs and leave the RK to mega aero, then you should be okay.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Chandelure Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Filter Mega Aggron is a guarteed OHKO (it didnt paste right on my phone lol, but it does minimum 112%)

Or you could try a bulky WoW/Pain Split set with shadow ball and fire blast. Personally, i think specs is good enough, but try this set:

Chandelure@choice specs
Flash fire
Modest nature
252 sp atk/4 sp def/252 speed
-fire Blast
-Shadowball
-Trick
-Memento

STABs alone can destroy most of the meta with ease combined with specs. Trick cripples mons hoping to tank your stab moves. Memento is a great option to make set up easier for slurpuff essentially giving it +2/+2 to its defenses almost guaranteeing youll get the BD off.
 
Chandelure should be able to handle both tbh for mega aggron. If you slap on a specs and leave the RK to mega aero, then you should be okay.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Chandelure Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Filter Mega Aggron is a guarteed OHKO (it didnt paste right on my phone lol, but it does minimum 112%)

Or you could try a bulky WoW/Pain Split set with shadow ball and fire blast. Personally, i think specs is good enough, but try this set:

Chandelure@choice specs
Flash fire
Modest nature
252 sp atk/4 sp def/252 speed
-fire Blast
-Shadowball
-Trick
-Memento

STABs alone can destroy most of the meta with ease combined with specs. Trick cripples mons hoping to tank your stab moves. Memento is a great option to make set up easier for slurpuff essentially giving it +2/+2 to its defenses almost guaranteeing youll get the BD off.
Right now, I have that set, except instead of memento i have hp ice. I already run memento on zoroark, and that's working well so far. Thank you for taking the time to comment for me :).
 
Was not intending to make a team full of dark horses...it just happened to work out that way:

Alt: 8Turtles

Team:

Cresselia | 3.35510%
Banette | 0.92922%
Whimsicott | 2.92208%

Tentacruel | 7.77426%
Rotom-Heat | 8.17791%
Rhyperior | 1.26701%

Total: 24.39%

dark horse proof.JPG
 
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In with a team I made recently that has been working nicely

Alt: singing pumpkin

Gourgeist-Super | 0.16532%
Aromatisse | 1.04488%

Empoleon | 10.20296%
Aerodactyl | 7.56985%
Snorlax | 5.43975%
Roserade | 6.96223%

Total: 31.38499%
 
Im done for the month, but Pangoro and Granbull are def the most viable in the current meta.

As for next month; BRING ON THE SHEER FORCE GATR lol :-)
Haha, gatr will be scary for sure. It probably won't jump as far as serperior, but it'll definitely be strong.
 
Haha, gatr will be scary for sure. It probably won't jump as far as serperior, but it'll definitely be strong.
Youd be surprised. Sheer Force Gatr has more power than modest Queen with a jolly nature and access to SD, Agility and DD. Excellent coverage in Waterfall, Crunch and EQ. 85/105/83 bulk is decent too. Theres only going to be a handful of mons that can handle Gatr once it has boosted. Suicune and Mega Aggron are kind of safe, but cant do too much outside of hoping for scalds burn and phazing.

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 166-196 (41 - 48.5%) -- 10.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

4 SpA Suicune Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 46-55 (14.7 - 17.6%) -- possible 6HKO

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 136+ Def Mega Aggron: 153-183 (44.4 - 53.1%) -- 84% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

0 Atk Mega Aggron Heavy Slam (100 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Feraligatr: 72-85 (23.1 - 27.3%) -- 65.5% chance to 4HKO

Agility lets it check HO teams as well...

252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mienshao: 289-341 (106.6 - 125.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Heracross: 242-285 (80.3 - 94.6%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Its faster than any scarfer in the game, barring obscure stuff like Crobat, Jolteon, etc..

Gatr will be pretty anti meta since it can break stall and HO. I plan on matching it up with Nidoqueen and Mega Amphy for some solid wallbreaking and pivoting action
 
Youd be surprised. Sheer Force Gatr has more power than modest Queen with a jolly nature and access to SD, Agility and DD. Excellent coverage in Waterfall, Crunch and EQ. 85/105/83 bulk is decent too. Theres only going to be a handful of mons that can handle Gatr once it has boosted. Suicune and Mega Aggron are kind of safe, but cant do too much outside of hoping for scalds burn and phazing.

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 166-196 (41 - 48.5%) -- 10.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

4 SpA Suicune Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 46-55 (14.7 - 17.6%) -- possible 6HKO

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 136+ Def Mega Aggron: 153-183 (44.4 - 53.1%) -- 84% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

0 Atk Mega Aggron Heavy Slam (100 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Feraligatr: 72-85 (23.1 - 27.3%) -- 65.5% chance to 4HKO

Agility lets it check HO teams as well...

252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mienshao: 289-341 (106.6 - 125.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Heracross: 242-285 (80.3 - 94.6%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Its faster than any scarfer in the game, barring obscure stuff like Crobat, Jolteon, etc..

Gatr will be pretty anti meta since it can break stall and HO. I plan on matching it up with Nidoqueen and Mega Amphy for some solid wallbreaking and pivoting action
Gatr will be able to set up even further if teams decide to switch to suicune or aggron :P. Serperior being banned from UU means there's one less mon that can threaten it, and the lack of mons who can knock gatr out means it'll have a very nice time in UU. Looking forward to using it haha.

Edit: Taking back my comment about gatr not being as strong as serperior after some reconsideration. We'll see how it turns out anyhow.
 

Hogg

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Youd be surprised. Sheer Force Gatr has more power than modest Queen with a jolly nature
That's not strictly true, as it ignores the high base power of Queen's STAB attacks and the incredible coverage they provide. Jolly SF Gatr's Waterfall hits just a hair harder than Queen's Earth Power, and it's a decent bit weaker than Sludge Wave. Plus, Waterfall has terrible coverage as your sole STAB attack.

I think Sheer Force Gatr will be a real threat, but I don't think the Queen comparison is a fair one.
 
That's not strictly true, as it ignores the high base power of Queen's STAB attacks and the incredible coverage they provide. Jolly SF Gatr's Waterfall hits just a hair harder than Queen's Earth Power, and it's a decent bit weaker than Sludge Wave. Plus, Waterfall has terrible coverage as your sole STAB attack.

I think Sheer Force Gatr will be a real threat, but I don't think the Queen comparison is a fair one.
Im talking purely from stats and LO. I mentioned earlier that jolly gatr hits a higher stat than modest queen, but her bp moves are higher. The secondary STaB is nice too lol so, Queen is still a fantastic wallbreaker, not saying that at all lol
 
After many long, drawn out and generally unpleasant battles, I made it:
dark horse proof.JPG



I have no interest in attempting to climb any higher as balance/stall is not my preferred playstyle and stresses me out, so I'll settle for whatever rank 1500 gets me. Maybe I'll mess around during the last couple days of the month and push the rating higher, but I doubt it.

A few notes from the team:

Banette @ Banettite
Ability: Frisk
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Shadow Sneak
- Taunt
- Destiny Bond

M-Banette was my inspiration for doing the Dark Horse thing. No one uses it and no one seems to respect it either. There are valid reasons I suppose (relatively frail, lack of strong attacks, Mega-spot competition) but that doesn't mean M-Banette can't be very valuable to a team. Banette's primary purpose on this team was to prevent a runaway sweep by something boosted and to lure in and take down Dark types with Destiny Bond so Cress could set up and sweep. Knock Off maims/kills a lot of frail attackers and removes leftovers from bulky walls. Shadow Sneak to pick off wounded pokes and get a free Mega evolve if I couldn't do it first turn of the match. Taunt messes with Forretress and Blissey and other slow, non offensive pokes and generally proved more useful to me than thunder wave or WoW. When people bash Banette, the most common criticism I heard was that Prankster Destiny Bond is easy to predict and switch out of. This may be true, but if the threat of DB forces out a boosted poke, then Banette has done its job. If an opponent wants to play guessing games, I just alternate between DB and knock off until the poke is dead. This works even against Dark resistors like Toxicroak, Absol, Krook. Basically, as long as I keep Banette status free (scald was its bane, har har har), and the poke doesn't have taunt, Banette is gonna kill something. Besides its underrated annoyer/offensive capabilities, Banette made sure fighting types couldn't spam HJK and opponents had to think before clicking rapid spin.

Cresselia @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 248 Def / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
- Psyshock
- Calm Mind
- Substitute
- Moonlight

Cress's purpose is to be my back up wall and win condition/sweeper. With Banette (hopefully) taking care of Dark types, the mono coverage provided by Psyshock isn't too big of a deal. The set isn't too hard to explain so I won't waste a lot of words doing so. I chose Moonlight over Moonblast because I prefer the longevity over the added offensive capability. As everyone knows, its absurdly bulky and kinda quick too (base 85 for a defensive poke is stellar). I ran 8 speed evs to creep past any creeping Suicune users so I could get a sub up before being burned and therefore ruined by scald. The number one highlight for Cress was outstalling/winning a CM war with a reuniclus and the lowlight was getting absolutely murdered by a Doublade when I thought I had the game won. It rescued me many times from poor early game play simply because its so hard to break without a Dark type.



Whimsicott @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 4 SpA / 88 SpD / 168 Spe
Timid Nature
- Moonblast
- Substitute
- Leech Seed
- Encore

For as cool (to me at least) as Banette is and as freaking bulky as Cress is, Whimsi is prolly the MVP and the most relied upon poke on my team. Its resistances are so awesome in the current UU climate, shutting down Dragons and threatening Dark/fighting types with its excellent speed, encore, and moonblast (is moonblast the best attack in the game!?!). The big nemesis of the set is Crobat (and Chandy to a lesser extent) due to Infiltrator, but that's what teammates are for. Generally, I switched in Whimsi on an opponent's predicted set up turn and encored it, giving me a chance to start pestering the opponent with leech seed or giving Rhyperior an opportunity to come in and roar it away. Moonblast coupled with Whimsi's speed really helped me contain the dark types that were so perilous to this team. The main problem I had with Whimsi was its propensity to collect burns from scald and how to ev him. In the end, I settled for enough speed to get past base 105 pokes (M-Absol being the only reason to consider running full speed investment), and dumped the remainder into special bulk to take Dark Pulses/water moves from Hydriegon and M-Blastoise. The extra 4 in SpA must be leftovers from the original 252/252/4 spread I had. In my opinion, Whimsi should be an absolute staple of the metagame right now.

Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
Ability: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 240 HP / 244 Def / 24 Spe
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Knock Off/Sludge Bomb
- Toxic Spikes
- Rapid Spin

I've never been a big OU player so in the past I never really understood the usefulness of Tenta. Now that its in UU, I gave it a shot and generally enjoyed the results. Decently bulky on both sides and with excellent resistances, Tenta was my early game switch in to a lot pokes to figure out what kinda set was being run. Toxic Spikes is the most important move, racking up damage and making it a lot easier for Cress to win in the end game. Despite being the main reason I chose Tenta, I didn't get a lot of chances to use rapid spin, as I often valued getting another layer of spikes or getting some chip damage a little bit more than clearing hazards. Early on I went with sludge bomb to help deal with Grass types, but I played with knock off a little bit too...neither move really made an impression on me.

Rotom-Heat @ Choice Scarf/Chesto Berry
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Overheat
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Trick/Rest

Rotom-H was my most debated about team member. The set I ran didn't really jive with the overall mood of the team, but I really liked the quick Volt Switch and the ability to threaten Grass types. Ironically, the main reason I disliked this poke was because the only way to threaten grass types was to use Overheat, forcing me to predict well or end up a sitting duck. That problem led me to try a chesto/rest set at the end of my ladder experience, since most people assume a choice set once they see my lack of leftovers. Sadly, I don't think I hit Rest once while I was running this set, so I can't say much about its effectiveness. After my first loss (getting pasted by poor prediction when faced with an Aero, Krook, Doublade trio) I began to debate switching Rotom out for a banded Infernape or Darmanitan (my favorite poke of this gen) but I could never pull the trigger.

Rhyperior @ Leftovers
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 252 HP / 16 Atk / 240 SpD
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Roar

I've loved Rhyperior since Gen 4 when it was walling Swellow and smashing things with Banded Eq's. Unfortunately, this set is a bit more boring, providing a bit of glue for my team by setting up rocks, roaring out encored pokes, providing a nice switch in for Darm and Crobat, and stopping annoying Volt Switchers. I maybe clicked EQ/SE 50% of the games I played in...just not a lot of chances to utilize that awesome attack/coverage. That said, the special defense investment allowed Rhyperior to check Chandy and lured a couple of Magnetons (an otherwise super threatening poke to my team) into trying a KO with an HP, only to get decked in face with EQ. My main issue with Rhyperior was centered around its tendency to draw in Grass types like Shaymin and Trevenant, which were not fun switch ins for the rest of my team.



In the end, I enjoyed making a team with Banette work to a reasonably successful degree, but I really don't like the type of game I played with this team and prolly won't be eager to give it another shot in the future.

Last random note: In the 27 games I played, I saw ONE Heracross. I'm sure he would've been a big problem to the team but no one was using him...I mean, I know I climbed through a lot of lower ranked players, but I had a fair share of games against decent opponents too. I saw a decent amount of Salamence, so I won't blame ignorance for Hera's absence....what gives?
 
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Hogg

grubbing in the ashes
is a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus
I used bulky Defog Flygon on a stall team a while back, but now I find it largely outclassed by Salamence, with better bulk thanks to Intimidate and decent offenses even without investment.
 
I used bulky Defog Flygon on a stall team a while back, but now I find it largely outclassed by Salamence, with better bulk thanks to Intimidate and decent offenses even without investment.
True, but I'd say flygon still has a tiny niche as the least hazard weak defogger. I think I'll try him out :).
 
Is this a valid DH team? I have entei, feraligatr, alakazam, amoonguss, flygon, and ampharos. Someone give me a green light?
 

warzoid

I have several gelatinous friends
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Is this a valid DH team? I have entei, feraligatr, alakazam, amoonguss, flygon, and ampharos. Someone give me a green light?
Entei | 12.04390%
Alakazam | 8.16042%
Ampharos | 5.38932%
Flygon | 3.56314%
Amoonguss | 1.65157%
Feraligatr | 0.32692%

Total: 31.13527%

Yup, you're good.
 
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