Research Week ORAS Edition [Week 9] - Won by Specs Cranidos

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Kink

it's a thug life ¨̮
is a Tutor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
shout-out to my Mazz for being the OG-OP
Hello, Underused!

Professor Kink here to present to you Week 8 of the ORAS edition of Research Week!


Keep the following things in mind during every Research Week:
  • Be open-minded, don't just say something is terrible and walk away; look at its stats and typing and think something up!
  • Feel free to theorymon early in the research period, but make it clear you're doing so. Later in the period though, you will be expected to back up your posts with hard evidence like logs, actual sets, perhaps even teams.
  • Just because an analysis has been done for a Pokemon doesn't mean there isn't more to explore; it's very likely that something has gone unnoticed.
  • Do not post in this thread complaining about the Pokemon or movesets I choose and / or suggesting ones we should do for future weeks. Feel free to VM / PM me these suggestions, but don't expect me to always listen to you.
A few things to clarify:
  • Sign-ups can be as late as you want, but the week will end on Sunday.
  • Early period means the first three days of the Research Week, so let's keep the theorymoning to a minimum after this period. The late period refers to the last four days of the research week, where raw evidence and discussion should become the basis of the thread.
  • The prizes for Research Week have been decided; winning a Research Week will grant you half-ops on our IRC channel, #xyuu. You'll also get put in the UU Hall of Fame. Don't forget, participation in projects like Research Week help towards earning the Community Contributor badge!
  • I'm implementing a mandatory discussion in order to be considered as a winner of Research Week. If you do not post one somewhat-coherent post that describes the Pokemon that you're using, their roles, and their niche in the metagame, you will be disqualified from winning this week. Please post about your experiences no matter if you think you've got a chance to win or not.
  • Finally, I'd like to implore you to all please remember to post and save your replays. Often, these replays are the most informative sources of information about RW Pokemon - you can write a full two paragraphs about the role of a Pokemon, but often that can all be summed up with a video and an explanation of it. How useful are these Pokemon in XYUU? What gives them trouble? What advantages do they have over other Pokemon? How well do they work in the metagame? If you have anything to say about any of these Pokemon, please post about them! Remember, discussion is not limited to this topic, you are encouraged to talk about these Pokemon in #xyuu and the Viability Ranking Thread as well.


This Week's ORAS Selection
Mesprit
Ability:
Evs:
Nature
-
-
-
-

Scyther
Ability:
Evs:
Nature
-
-
-
-

Druddigon
Ability:
Evs:
Nature
-
-
-
-

In order to participate you must do the following:
  • Post here with a fresh alt and the name(s) of the Pokemon you will be using.
  • Use at least one of the Pokemon being researched.
  • Post your experiences with the Pokemon you're using, participate in the discussion!
  • Post logs of this Pokemon in action against other teams - don't just tell us, show us
  • The winner of the challenge will be the person who has the highest ladder ranking on the Pokemon Showdown UU ladder on the alt they registered at the time the challenge ends.
  • Winners will also receive a permanent spot in the XYUU Hall of Fame
  • PLEASE post your updated rank with your updated analysis ON SUNDAY
 
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r0ady

People like to invent monsters and monstrosities
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
Ayye glad to see my suggest was taken lol

I'll be taking mesprit alt: pixie r0ady
 

Donphantastic

I'm Donny P. (W)
is a Tiering Contributor
Alt: MindPl8
Pokemon: Mesprit

After a bit of testing, I realized I cannot use mesprit at all so instead using
Scyther
Alt: Lime-green blur
 
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Alt: Mike is trash
Pokemon: Mesprit

Alright so basically the only role I can even begin to think of that Mesprit isn't completely outclassed by Alakazam, Cresselia, and/or Azelf is the role of Offensive Support, utilizing Healing Wish especially. It'll likely preform a la Latias in OU (to some degree that is), and will allow me to set up late game sweeps with hopeful ease.
 
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alt: alloftheresearch
pokemon: all of them lol

edit

got to 1467 then played like a complete retard so im at 1334 now '-'
yeh nah gg im out

here's the team:
http://pastebin.com/a3ajM0HR


welp if i try again:

alt: smellthesalt
pokemon: scyther

Edit: nvm bp chains are banned lol

alt:smellthesalt
pokemon: mesprit
 
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Pak

vortex
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SCL Champion
Using Druddigon
Alt is Specs Lileep
upload_2015-2-14_20-15-54.png

Druddigon @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Dragon Tail
- Glare
- Gunk Shot

I've used this set to great success as a lead. Once it sets up rocks it can proceed to d-tail everything out to whittle the entire team. Glare is great for crippling fast and common physical threats such as Entei, Crobat, M-Aerodactyl, etc. while dealing heavy damage with Rocky Helmet and Rough Skin. Gunk shot is purely used for fairy coverage as they cannot be dragon tailed out like all other types. If used right this set can potentially whittle the entire opposing team and spread paralysis for your threats in the back to come in and deal massive damage. It's safe to say this set has fared much better than i expected.

Team: http://pastebin.com/sy8RwxYF
Druddigon has proved to be a major team player. Spreading paralysis and chip damage on the opposing team allows choice scarf Hydreigon, choice band Entei, and sub work up Mega Pidgeot to come in and deal massive damage while also covering some of their weaknesses. Besides Druddigon the team as a whole does not handle three of the most common pokemon in the tier well in opposing Entei, Mega Aerodactyl, and Crobat. However, if any of these three are paralyzed and take stealth rock damage, they are significantly easier to deal with. Overall Druddigon allows the rest of the team to flourish.

252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Druddigon: 127-150 (35.4 - 41.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Aerodactyl Ice Fang vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Druddigon: 150-178 (41.8 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
80 Atk Crobat Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Druddigon: 100-118 (27.9 - 32.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
0 Atk Druddigon Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 232 Def Florges: 206-244 (57.2 - 67.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
 
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Welp I'm a 1450, so I guess it's time to weigh in

Mesprit:

Easily my favourite of the 3. So why use it over other psychics? Well I love the tempo it brings to volt turn teams. Trick is really great for disabling walls with much greater ease and you can follow up with a u turn to a favourable match up. Azelf can fulfill a similar role to Mesprit, but has more power and speed at the cost of bulk. The lower bulk can really matter at times, as you can't switch into a support mons moves nearly as well. You also die a lot more often on the turn you trick. 80 base speed really really really blows - +252 scarf hits 426 speed, while +252 mega Beedril and Sceptile hit 427... I don't really think Mesprit is worth running as the only scarfer in a team, but he'd be ok as a secondary one especially since you trick away the item anyway. I prefer specs as the power increase is very handy (specs and scarf are both outsped by jolly maero and 2hkoed by stone edge, but specs can ohko and scarf can't). Healing wish is also pretty cool.

Scyther:

I've been running a scarf set as my revenge killer and it's been pretty underwhelming at times. It gets quite a lot of surprise kills and also can somewhat check mega beedril, but a x4 weak to rocks mon with a relatively low pay off is just not worth it. 105 speed also means you get outsped by many other scarfers.

Druddigon:

Tried to build around banded Drud because it is just my jam in RU. Problem is unlike RU, UU has a billion Dragons, which makes spamming Outrage super punishable especially in conjunction with his low speed. CB has a very small niche over Haxorus in TR teams, but other than that completely outclassed (not to mention sheer force LO Drud might even outclass it in TR). A support set is okay, it does have SR over Goodra and it's Dragon Tails hurt more.
 
Sorry for (what's probably) shitposting, but what scarfers is Scyther outsped by? Infernape is the only common one I can think of, and you speed-tie Mienshao. I can see a few priority users who could revenge kill (Honch, Entei), so I'm sorta wondering where that line of thinking came from.
 
I have been using this lure-core with varying degrees of success:


Crystal Meth (Druddigon) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 36 HP / 252 Atk / 220 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Glare/Sucker Punch
- Fire Punch
- Gunk Shot
- Outrage


Mencetrual Cycle (Salamence) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Outrage
- Fire Blast
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw

Looking through Druddigon's movepool, there were two moves stood out to me: Fire Punch and Gunk Shot. It occurred to me that Druddigon could act as a lure for MoxieMence as it brings in steel types like Forry, M-Agron, and Empoleon, as well as fairy types such as Florges, Aromatisse, and Granbull, all of which inhibit a late-game 'Mence sweep. The EV's on Drud are there to outspeed Florges, while the rest are thrown into attack and bulk.

Against Hype Offense, Drud mainly serves as sack fodder, which is kinda meh. I don't have many good replays bc low ladder matches are lol, but here is a pretty close one: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-210160200 (drud does nothing)

I'm at 1431 as of this post
upload_2015-2-11_19-31-13.png
 

Donphantastic

I'm Donny P. (W)
is a Tiering Contributor
After using mesprit; I feel like it leaves a lot to be desired, base 80 speed is extremely underwhelming this meta especially when we have faster scarfers by the dozens and a really good mega that outspeeds. The trick scarf set is honestly outclased by uxie as far as support goes and azelf when it comes to offensive psychic. And while healing wish is really nice, it is upsetting to constantly be outsped and killed before it can take effect.

I rage quitted on mesprit and decided to try out scyther, and the sd roost set appealed to me instantly. In this metagame scyther really shines by setting up on florges and other support mons and then using its decent speed and power to sweep. It has serious issues with anything super effective and faster (stone edge scarfshao, bat, m-aero all come to mind) but with proper team support I found it to be pretty effective.
scyther in top 500.png


Relevant replays:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-210214500
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-210987601

Although the first battle did not finish at that, point all that needed to happen to insure a scyther sweep was get to +2 on the chesnaught/blissey since +2 scyther maims the rest of his team excluding gligar if the gligar had toxic

Final thoughts:
SD Roost scyther is both under rated and underwhelming. It's biggest flaws are the lacking speed tier and the lack of power before a boost. However it does really well against slower more defensive teams due to the nature of eviolite sweeping, and unlike the other sd mons in the tier (Heracross/Absol) it is not destroyed by foul play umbreon taking ~40 if unboosted and being able to take it out with bug bite.

SD scyther really enjoy having a STAB that is largely unresisted with decent power

I would actually use scyther again, and I would reccomend it to anyone who is looking to use something different that is not totally terrible.
 
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Sorry for (what's probably) shitposting, but what scarfers is Scyther outsped by? Infernape is the only common one I can think of, and you speed-tie Mienshao. I can see a few priority users who could revenge kill (Honch, Entei), so I'm sorta wondering where that line of thinking came from.
Mostly ape, heliolisk, noivern and the mien tie that bothers me
 
Welp im around 1450 so il start exposing my findings :

Ive Gived a shot at Life Orb , Sheer Force Druddigon on a Balanced team. Its pretty Underwhelming to say the least in the actual meta since others mons can do what it does and do it better. Its Speed Really pulls it back , forcing you to invest a lot in it just to outspeed Florges ( 220 Ev's ). Sadly no STAB physical Worthy moves take advantage of Sheer force. On the other hand it does get Fire & Thunder Punch for coverage that coupled with Glare or some Support allows to get more dmg than Outrage would & evoids being stuck in .

252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Druddigon Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 190-224 (47 - 55.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Druddigon Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 173-204 (42.8 - 50.4%) -- 41.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Even if Empoleon is Specially defensif , Outrage Fails to 2HKO .
252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Druddigon Thunder Punch vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Empoleon: 250-294 (67.3 - 79.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Druddigon Outrage vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Empoleon: 113-134 (30.4 - 36.1%) -- 1.7% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Heres a game where i probably get out of druddigon the most you can hope for. ( As for Trev , i forgot Ghost resist Poison i might could have taken a Third Kill )

http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/uu-209809200

The crit is lucky but Stealth rock or little prior dmg is enough to OHKO M-Toise
252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Druddigon Thunder Punch vs. 52 HP / 0 Def Mega Blastoise: 247-291 (79.1 - 93.2%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Life Orb Druddigon Outrage vs. 52 HP / 0 Def Mega Blastoise: 226-266 (72.4 - 85.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock


Drugged Druddigon (Druddigon) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 36 HP / 252 Atk / 220 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Glare/Sucker Punch/Fire Punch
- Outrage
- Gunk Shot
- Thunder Punch

http://imageshack.com/a/img540/501/3xcnee.png
 
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Lucipurrr

Banned deucer.
Like Always, I'll be taking all three pokes. I know I'm joining late, but I've been in the hospital all week. I'll most likely do a quick Thoughts/Calc post on all three pokes. I will provide an alt soon. Like always, Good luck Everyone ^^
 
Edit: Sorry, I didn't see the part about submitting final thoughts on Sunday until after I posted
Druddigon Conclusion


Gud (Druddigon) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 36 HP / 252 Atk / 220 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Thunder Punch
- Fire Punch
- Gunk Shot
- Outrage/Dragon Claw


Druddigon is a fearsome wallbreaker with a vast physical movepool that can shred a large portion of the UU metagame. With that being said, it does have its fair share of drawbacks (the obvious one being the abysmal speed stat) that hinder it from being great in the UU meta, but with proper team support, it can certainly be effective.

For this research week, I built a team around a Drud+Mence core, using Drud to lure and KO the fairies and Steels that prevent it from sweeping and break walls that hinder a Mence sweep. This strategy worked relatively well when battling balance teams, and worked to some extent versus stall, and I have some replays that demonstrate what Drud can do:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-210959466 - Drud vs stall (Drud kills fat Mence which was crucial)

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-210461628 - Drud is able to catch a Florges by surprise w/ Gunk Shot, although I didn't need Mence to win this game.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-210965207 - Drud breaks a Hippo that thinks it can tank Drud (I lose bc of a Scald burn at the end, M-Pert would have swept #salt)

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-210423562 - Drud eats 1/2 a team, including a Forry , and Mence cleans up :]

With all that being said, Drud is often a liability when playing Hyper Offensive teams, and usually ends up as fodder, as it is slow as hell and its bulk, while not terrible, is nothing to write home about. The main issue when using Offensive Druddigon is the Outrage vs Dragon Claw slot. Using Dragon Claw causes one to lose out on numerous KOs and there is a large damage differential, but being locked into Outrage, while insanely powerful, often times spells doom for Druddigon.

The main regret I have involving this Research week is not using Thunder Punch from the get-go. The importance of Thunder Punch cannot be overstated, as UU is the bulky water tier, and with Sheer Force Thunder Punch, Drud is able to break the aforementioned bulky waters. This is extremely important bc bulky waters often times are the backbone of teams; once you break the bulky water, you break the team.
252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Druddigon Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 190-224 (47 - 55.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Druddigon Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 283-335 (60.9 - 72.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Druddigon Thunder Punch vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Empoleon: 320-377 (86.2 - 101.6%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

I started off using Glare on this Drud..... Never, and I repeat, NEVER USE GLARE ON OFFENSIVE DRUD. This may be obvious to some but it didn't strike me until I actually started playing w/ it: fast, offensive pokemon that you want to paralyze don't switch in on Drud, only defensive pokemon do. To put it in more blunt terms, using glare is fucking stupid.

Sucker Punch is strong priority and a solid option, but I really have a hard time forgoing any of the other coverage moves on Drud as you will get walled by Steels/Fairies/Bulky Waters depending on which moves you drop.

As far as the Mence+Drud core goes, I would not use it again, or recommend it to others. Yes, it did work to some extent, but stacking two dragons on a team like that really limits your options when teambuilding as you have poor defensive synergy right off the bat, and the whole time while teambuilding you are attempting to compensate for the double weaknesses of dragon, ice, and fairy, while still having an answer for all the relevant threats in the tier. My team was weak to fighting spam, Hydriegon, Entei, Honchkrow, Toxicroak, and a myriad of others simply because I couldn't fit more solid checks/counters to those threats due to the 2 team slots taken by this core.

I leave this week with a greater appreciation for what Druddigon can do in this tier, and I certainly plan on using it again in the future.


Don't think I had the highest rating this week, but this was my peak anyways
upload_2015-2-14_21-35-26.png
 
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