I have been testing Heliolisk, and i have to say, this thing is godlike. The meta does not have much to handle LO t bolts and the normal coverage is great alongside with blowing back hippoowdon and Swampert with grass knot. The main appeal to using Heliolisk is that it is a Suicune/ vaporeon counter(On EVERY team) that has an offensive presence as well. Use this thing.
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- Thread starter Calloflochie
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Why would you use Volt Switch, Thunderbolt, and Hyper Voice? Having triple stab seems illogical. I'd make it more like this:
Heliolisk @ Life Orb
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Grass Knot
- Hyper Voice / Surf / Dark Pulse
It has a bit of a case of 4MSS, but it's still a good mon.
Heliolisk @ Life Orb
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Thunderbolt
- Grass Knot
- Surf / Dark Pulse
I agree, I wouldn't run volt switch because, yes, the momentum provided from the switches it forces is nice, but most ground types that wanna block the volt switch are threatened by LO surf and/or grass knot.
Wouldn't Volt Switch belong on a Choice set as opposed to the Life Orb set?
Personally, I can't think of the utility in Thunderbolt. Your coverage moves scare ground types, Hyper Voice is a strong STAB and Volt Switch has the allows you to pivot. If anything this is a better user of Volt Switch in the tier because most other Switchers have to rely on Hidden Power to threaten Swamp/Hippo.
I would say that surf is needed on Helio (fire typed and ground pokés that wouldn't be as phazed by grass knot). I think that hyper voice isn't as useful, and that dark pulse should be put in front of it. Hyper voice maybe STAB, but there isn't really a need for it. Normal doesn't hit anything that the set already can, right? Dark pulse is much better and allows it to hit more for super effective damage. And it lacks a possibility of a free switch in from a ghost type.
Heliolisk @ Life Orb
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Volt Switch
- Hyper Voice
- Grass Knot
- Surf
This is the only set Heliolisk should be using. Hyper Voice is your main STAB and has the same base power with Thunderbolt. Also it is your best bet against Grass, Electric and Dragon types. Choice sets are simply bad since Heliolisk is only good because of its coverage and limiting that is not a good idea at all. (Also scarf set is too weak.) No one was using choiced Greninja due to its amazing coverage options. Same applies to Heliolisk too.
252 Atk Life Orb Salamence Outrage vs. 172 HP / 0- Def Whiscash: 380-448 (94 - 110.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth RockYou're out of line here.
Seaking cannot switch safely in on Heliolisk.
252 SpA Life Orb Heliolisk Grass Knot (60 BP) vs. 104 HP / 0 SpD Seaking: 182-216 (55.6 - 66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Heliolisk Hyper Voice vs. 104 HP / 0 SpD Seaking: 204-242 (62.3 - 74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
And if it slaps on an assault vest, then it cannot OHKO either pokemon back.
But there IS a pokemon who can...I present to you: Assault Vest Whiscash
Whiscash @ Assault Vest
Ability: Anticipation
EVs: 172 HP/ 28 Att/ 224 SpA/ 84 SpD
Mild Nature
- Earthquake
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- filler
Lizard can't even 2HKO it with a 4x Super Effective Move:
252 SpA Life Orb Heliolisk Grass Knot (40 BP) vs. 172 HP / 80 SpD Assault Vest Whiscash: 161-192 (39.8 - 47.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Heliolisk Hyper Voice vs. 172 HP / 80 SpD Assault Vest Whiscash: 134-160 (33.1 - 39.6%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO
Take a look at this insane power:
28 Atk Whiscash Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Heliolisk: 306-360 (115.4 - 135.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
28 Atk Whiscash Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Jolteon: 272-324 (100.3 - 119.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
And as a bonus it can still slay dragons with ease:
224 SpA Whiscash Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Salamence: 324-384 (97.8 - 116%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
224 SpA Whiscash Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Gligar: 252-300 (75.4 - 89.8%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Scald is for the burns, although getting beaten by Almighty Catfish Lord is already the biggest burn there is.
Nice 'slaying'...
It's probably a good thing you said to cut it out, or else you would have this grand slice of autism in the thread.
http://pastebin.com/wBeXqjb7
But on a serious note, I do like Heliolisk right now. It's certainly not NEW META 10/10 PACK UP GO HOME, but it does its job decently enough.
Another rising star along with Helioisk is Mixnape... Infernape's amazing coverage to take down most of the metagame is awesome! Here is the set I've been using.
Infernape @ Life Orb
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 228 Atk / 28 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Close Combat
- Fire Blast
- Grass Knot
- HP Ice
Spam Close Combat even if they have fighting resist. And hit hard with a strong coverage move. The nicest part about this set, is that it lures Salamence in. Salamence is on as many teams as suicune and vaporeon. Which infernape has no problem getting past either of them. This set is best paired with something that can sweep effectively with certain walls down. Like M-Swampert, Slurpluff etc
Infernape @ Life Orb
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 228 Atk / 28 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Close Combat
- Fire Blast
- Grass Knot
- HP Ice
Spam Close Combat even if they have fighting resist. And hit hard with a strong coverage move. The nicest part about this set, is that it lures Salamence in. Salamence is on as many teams as suicune and vaporeon. Which infernape has no problem getting past either of them. This set is best paired with something that can sweep effectively with certain walls down. Like M-Swampert, Slurpluff etc
Heliolisk @ Life Orb
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Volt Switch/Hyper Voice/Surf
- Thunderbolt
- Grass Knot/Surf/Glare
- Hidden Power [Ice]
I prefer running HP Ice on my Heliolisk's because Salamence and Haxorus are in the tier and they are not nice to lisk.
Glare is also nice due to the surprise factor when bringing a krookodile or another fast ground type, and paralyzing them, rendering them useless for a while.
HP ice is a waste of a move slot with it only being useful for one pokemon(Salamance). Hyper Voice does more damage than HP Ice to Haxorus. And T bolt has the chance to KO mence after rocks.
Heliolisk @ Life Orb
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Volt Switch/Hyper Voice/Surf
- Thunderbolt
- Grass Knot/Surf/Glare
- Hidden Power [Ice]
I prefer running HP Ice on my Heliolisk's because Salamence and Haxorus are in the tier and they are not nice to lisk.
Glare is also nice due to the surprise factor when bringing a krookodile or another fast ground type, and paralyzing them, rendering them useless for a while.
It should be noted that Heliolisk cannot beat Crocune w/o Thunderbolt. If you have other answers to Cune on your team, than this set is optimal, but if you are relying on 'Lisk as your counter than Tbolt is a must.
Heliolisk @ Life Orb
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Volt Switch
- Hyper Voice
- Grass Knot
- Surf
This is the only set Heliolisk should be using. Hyper Voice is your main STAB and has the same base power with Thunderbolt. Also it is your best bet against Grass, Electric and Dragon types. Choice sets are simply bad since Heliolisk is only good because of its coverage and limiting that is not a good idea at all. (Also scarf set is too weak.) No one was using choiced Greninja due to its amazing coverage options. Same applies to Heliolisk too.
You bastards NU just got heliolisk, please don't hype it up and make them lose it. Although it is about to be suspect tested...
Anyways, would focus blast be a viable coverage move for heliolisk in UU? It hits certain targets harder than grass knot/surf. Any reason to use it? Or would it be better to just pivot out with volt switch?
Anyways, would focus blast be a viable coverage move for heliolisk in UU? It hits certain targets harder than grass knot/surf. Any reason to use it? Or would it be better to just pivot out with volt switch?
Eh Focus Blast is good to hit mega aggron harder, but LO tbolt 2hko still thanks to filter. Other than thay, there really isnt any reason to run focus blast over say Hyper Voice which hits behind subs with decent neutral coverage with only ghosts and steel types resisting. There is mega aero, but its bopped by tbolt, so it wont switch in on helio too often
So, how is everybody dealing with Mence? Im running Granbull right now (pretty decent in the current rachi free, menceful meta) and havent been having too many issues. But, itw one of the few bulky checks to mence, so if i misplay and lose him too soon, thrn mence starts to givd me trouble. Any thoughts?
Thanks to heracross aromatisse is basically a necessity on every stall team (along with a fast flying type for fucking sd+flame orb, this isn't healthy btw), so I can't say mence has really given me any trouble.
isnt granbull a much better counter to hera though, or does aroma have something over granbull that im missing?
iirc physically defensive aromatisse isn't 2HKOed after stealth rock, and generally having reliable recovery in wish is more useful than intimidate.
Aromatisse also has much more balanced defenses than Granbull does.
Aromatisse also has much more balanced defenses than Granbull does.
M-Aerodactyl is also really good on stall right now. Taunt/Wing Attack/Aqua Tail/Roost with a defensive spread (and enough Speed to pass standard Crobat) is what I've been using on a couple of my teams lately. Breaks stall, Taunts defoggers and checks things like SD Hera that give stall trouble.
+1 252+ Atk Guts Heracross Facade (140 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Granbull: 316-372 (82.5 - 97.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers
+2 252+ Atk Guts Heracross Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Aromatisse: 431-508 (106.1 - 125.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Same calcs, so im not sure how phys def aromatisse is a better check than granbull? Regarding mixed bulk, both are forced out by almost the same special attackers (nidos, special lucario, etc.. mega aggron,)
Aromatisse is cool, but the ability to fkat out counter hera and allows a softer switch in for a teammate is pretty useful.
I think the better argument would be reliable recovery for aromatisse's part, and obviously rest talk is not reliable recovery.
But I totally agree, being able to completely counter Heracross is a strong advantage.
But I totally agree, being able to completely counter Heracross is a strong advantage.
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