ORAS Ubers An Attempt At Ho-oh Balance (peaked 2nd)

Seeing how well Ho-oh is doing in SPL, as well as being my favourite legendary, I wanted to build a team around it. Unlike most teams I build, this one is more balanced, because it's hard to fit Ho-oh into pure offense. I don't really find time to enter tournaments so my best achievement with this team is using it to get into Indigo Plateau, in which I went 44-6 on the ladder. I peaked at 4th, which is technically 2nd since Lord Outrage and his many alts took up the spots 1-3. I stopped there because he ladders way too much for anyone to even keep up o.o. Anyway, I felt to RMT the team because there's always room for improvement (which I'm looking for) and it pretty much did its job.
Proof of ladder record (ladder alt)
Ladder Proof.png



TEAM PREVIEW

BUILDING PROCESS
Ho-oh

The team is built around it.
Primal Kyogre

Ho-oh and Kyogre were a very strong offensive core in XY and this hasn't changed in ORAS with Primal Kyogre. The core became stronger now that Primal Kyogre's rain goes away upon switching out, thus allowing Ho-oh to spam Sacred Fire without fear of being weakened by rain. So, Primal Kyogre's pick was naturally chosen as I wanted to test out this boosted core. The best of Ho-oh's few, shaky switch ins lie in Arceus-Rock, Gliscor, Arceus-Water, defensive Yveltal and the unorthodox Rhyperior. Between Origin Pulse, Thunder and Ice Beam, Primal Kyogre demolishes these Pokemon. On the other hand, Primal Kyogre's best switch-ins lie in Ferrothorn, Lati twins, Blissey and Arceus-Grass. Ho-oh destroys these Pokemon and wins 1v1 vs the Latis. Primal Groudon can be added but it's incredibly easy to weaken that by predicting with Ice Beam as it lacks recovery. Support variants which are more commonly used for P-Kyogre often lack a rock move, thus allowing Ho-oh to counter them. Both of Ho-oh and P-Kyogre are incredible powerhouses and very difficult to switch in to, so my match up against stall was already pretty strong.
Primal Groudon

The offensive core was massively weak to Zekrom and I wanted a Rocks setter. Primal Groudon seemed by far the best choice as it filled many roles in one slot, being a Xerneas, Zekrom, Kyogre and to some extent a Mega Salamence check, as well as most other strong physical attackers. Honestly though, there's little reason to ever not use this mon, so its pick is pretty self-explanatory.
Mega Salamence

Hazard removal on a team packing Ho-oh is a neccessity. I didn't want to go the traditional, boring route of adding Mega Diancie and Defog Lati for hazard control as it's really common so most teams are ready for a style like that. That core is also massively weak to E-Killer and dancing Primal Groudon, leaving limited options for the remaining slots. So essentially I wanted something that could pack Defog and not make me massively weak to E-Killer or Primal Groudon. Gira-O was considered, who while a solid pick was underwhelming for me as it lacks recovery, making it incredibly easy to open up holes for one of the aforementioned two to sweep. It also cannot switch in to Ho-oh.

Enter Mega Salamence. Mega Salamence has Defog, Intimidate, recovery and can switch in to Ho-oh comfortably. So I had hazard removal on the fourth slot with the added benefit on not being weak to Ekiller, P-Don and Ho-oh. Its pick was made more attractive as by this point, I had answers to the premier Uber threats - Xerneas, Primal Groudon, E-killer, Primal Kyogre and Darkrai through the bulk of Ho-oh and P-Ogre.
Xerneas

At this point I looked at the not as prominent threats, and I needed a little more offensive pressure outside of Ho-oh and Kyogre. Yveltal and the Lati twins stood out the most as threats to the team, so Xerneas was added to help with this. It also gave a solid win-con and forced teams to play the way I wanted, forcing out and weakening Primal Groudon for example which was beneficial to P-Kyogre. It's gauranteed to punch a hole into any team just by getting a Geo up, so I liked this pick as a Pokemon as good as Xerneas is never bad.
Arceus

Ekiller was added to round out the offense spectrum and give a secondary win-con. It also gave a back up Xern check as Groudon can be pressured quite often while lacking recovery, and Ho-oh of course isn't the best check out there as it needs to be at 100%. Honestly though this literal God is just so solid, 120 stats across the board is insane. It has strong priority and fantastic natural bulk so it helps immensely if I'm in a sticky situation. For example P-Groudon gets a free Rock Polish, this thing takes a hit and Earthquakes followed up with Espeed. Or if Darkrai gets out of hand, it can do a good job revenge killing by getting 1 or 2 Espeeds off depending on its HP. It puts in massive work vs HO and gave the team a safety net, so I had no second thoughts in choosing it.
SETS
Rainbow Phoenix

RAINB-OH (Ho-Oh) @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 196 Atk / 52 SpD / 12 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Brave Bird
- Thunder Wave
- Recover
I used the standard spread for a back up Xerneas check, as sometimes in longer battles P-Don can be worn down to the point where it can't check Xerneas anymore and Ekiller was sometimes not strong enough to finish off bulkier variants. Life Orb was chosen over Choice Band, because although CB is my favourite set, I don't think it's as good in this meta, as new threats M-Mence, P-Don and P-Ogre can really take advantage if it's locked in to the wrong move. Of course this was a problem in XY too, but there were way fewer things that didn't mind one of its moves back then. It is also really helpful against stall, as they can't switch around as well since it eases prediction. In tandem with Recover (over Roost because it beats non-rock move P-Don), it worked great. Another advantage of Life Orb is it allowed for Thunder Wave, which prevents M-Mence setting up on it and eases the match up against HO with Deo-S leads. I did not opt for Sleep Talk, because there were too many times Stealth Rock was up, and Darkrai managed to beat Ho-oh, rendering my check to it useless. So, I put Sleep Talk on P-Ogre instead, who proved way more reliable. Looking at it though, with the 248 HP / 52 SpD spread, sometimes I don't even have to rely on Kyogre to check Darkrai, as this spread walls Darkrai really well provided rocks aren't up. Ho-oh was also my answer to the many CM Arc forms, as it eats up Judgements, while burning, birding and recovering. The Speed EVs let it outspeed max speed Diancie before mega which can be clutch if it's not running Protect. Ho-oh's unorthodox Speed tier doesn't really need big investment in Speed anyway as it won't achieve much. 248HP and 52SpDef checks Xerneas and the rest was put into Attack with an Adamant nature for maximum power.
King Of The Sea

BLUE WHALE (Kyogre-Primal) @ Blue Orb
Ability: Primordial Sea
EVs: 172 HP / 252 SpA / 84 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Origin Pulse
- Ice Beam
- Thunder
- Sleep Talk
I used the offensive set with a little focus on bulk to check Darkrai better as well as Primal Groudon. Origin Pulse, Ice Beam and Thunder are self-explanatory if you read the teambuilding process. They give amazing coverage and hit everything Ho-oh hates. Sleep Talk is of course to sleep absorb and beat Darkrai. The Speed EVs let it outspeed the majority of Primal Groudons and the 172HP gaurantees the live on Precipice Blades, with a good chance after Stealth Rock. This let P-Kyogre be a back up check to it. Max Special Attack was used to wallbreak and punish switches as hard as possible. Seriously this thing hits stupidly hard, it has a 87.5% chance to OHKO offensive Yveltal and gaurantees if the Yveltal is Rash natured (which they always are). However, Calm Mind over Thunder is a good option too to break walls better, 2HKOing Blissey or Chansey at +1 for example. This does make you weaker to opposing Kyogre though.
King Of The Land

FIREPTILE (Groudon-Primal) @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 248 HP / 56 Def / 204 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Precipice Blades
- Lava Plume
- Dragon Tail
- Stealth Rock
Since Primal Groudon was checking or countering all of Xerneas, Zekrom, P-Ogre and M-Mence, as well as setting rocks, I definitely needed a support spread. So, I chose the standard mixed wall spread. The SpDef investment allows it to check Xerneas very reliably and switch into P-Ogre at least 3 times. The Defense investment lives +2 EQ from LO Ekiller after SR, so I was comfortable with this benchmark as it showed what a physical behemoth P-Don is. This also comfortably lives any hit from +1 M-Mence (even crits) so it was nice as I could D-Tail it out, dealing some good damage in the process. Precipice Blades was chosen over Earthquake because EQ is weak af. There were a few too many times Earthquake couldn't finish Xerneas so I had enough and used Blades. This power difference was very noticeable, 180 Atk with a 120BP STAB even uninvested let it hard ridiculously hard, and since then it's always managed to revenge Xerneas. Lava Plume was chosen because it hits Ferrothorn without taking Iron Barbs damage, since P-Don has no recovery, I feel it appreciates every last bit of HP. Mostly though, I use it to fish for burns and it has come through a lot, burning things like Ekiller and M-Mence. It also makes him a pretty strong mixed attacker. Dragon Tail was chosen to phase things out, so M-Mence cannot set up on me, and it's nice to toss things about for SR damage when I have momentum. It also was helpful for people running evasion on the ladder, as Espeon cannot bounce it back. Another perk is that Latis are common switch ins so Dragon Tailing them right back out, dealing big damage in the process really helps. This prevents Defog and gets momentum.
Rayquaza's Apprentice

MEGA CROISSANT (Salamence-Mega) @ Salamencite
Ability: Aerilate
EVs: 248 HP / 200 / 60 Spe
Impish Nature
- Return
- Dragon Tail
- Roost
- Defog
Since Salamence was packing Defog, as well as being my hard check to Arceus and Ho-oh, a bulky spread on it was only logical. This spread has a 100% chance to live +3 Extremespeed from LO Ekiller after Stealth Rock. That way, upon switching in (including Intimidate), Ekiller has to set up another SD before it can break Salamence. So, I get off two Returns which is enough to 2HKO it after SR, and 16.4% chance without. However that 16.4% chance does not factor in LO recoil, so really it's always reliable. This was a major reason why I didn't opt for Body Slam, since that was simply too weak, and deterred Mence from checking Ekiller reliably. The Speed EVs reach 291, which is enough to outspeed neutral natured Yveltal, Rayquaza and Kyu-W. Dragon Tail was chosen as this Salamence has less offensive pressure, so it phases things trying to set up on it, particularly Ekiller and Primal Groudon. Similarly to Primal Groudon, it tosses things about to rack up damage and prevents Latis switching in and Defogging. It is pretty crucial to the set as without it you can be set up on and lose to things like Double Dance Primal Groudon. Roost is obviously there for the mandatory recovery.
Yggdrasil - Tree Of Life

UNICORN (Xerneas) @ Power Herb
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 48 HP / 28 Def / 248 SpA / 184 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Geomancy
- Aromatherapy
- Focus Blast
The Speed EVs on Xerneas outspeed Adamant / Modest base 90s, so that includes things like Kyogre, Groudon and Ho-oh, which is pretty big considering they never really are +Speed nature. This prevents Modest Primal Kyogre from doing (95% - 112%), basically one shotting me with Origin Pulse. That way I can either revenge kill it or set up on it, which is pretty clutch. This Speed benchmark also outspeeds Adamant Exca, and actually came through for me once as I played someone using the classic T-Tar + Excadrill (Xern check) core. Outspeeding the Excadrill won me the game. The Defense EVs make it greater than SpDef so Genesect does not get the Attack boost, and the rest goes into HP. This investment still allows it to live +2 Espeed from LO Ekiller. Aromatherapy was chosen as I had to sacrifice Refresh on M-Mence for the importance of Dragon Tail, so this gave team support and prevented toxic or burn shutting down Salamence, as well as give second chances to burned Ekiller. The move is immensely useful against stall. Focus Blast, though having shaky accuracy are what I feel is Xern's best coverage, as it hits P-Don, Klefki, Ferro, Scizor and Heatran. Three of those are among the most common checks to Xerneas so this was chosen over Thunder. Thunder only lets you get past Ho-oh, and although this made me slightly weaker to Ho-oh (all teams are) I compensated for it by running Stone Edge Ekiller.
The Lord

HORSEUS (Arceus) @ Life Orb
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
Ekiller's set is pretty straightforward, with not much to talk about. Life Orb was chosen over things like Lum because I already had a Darkrai check, and it helps with revenge killing significantly. Earthquake hits the widest range of targets coverage wise, and the team didn't need lure like Overheat, as I already have P-Don and Ho-oh for the things it hits. Stone Edge was chosen to OHKO Ho-oh as people like to switch it in to Ekiller sometimes, and it also gets past defensive Yveltal and Salamence - two of the most common checks to Ekiller right now. This made Stone Edge the superior option, but Shadow Claw is always an acceptable option to hit Gira-O and Ghostceus a lot harder.

Threat List
- This thing with Thunder can get past the bulk of Ho-oh and P-Kyogre and then punch huge holes in the team. Thankfully though Sludge Bomb is the superior option, and Ekiller can live any +2 hit from Dark Pulse or Thunder. If its Focus Blast, P-Ogre and Ho-oh have no problems checking it, but it's a threat because you don't usually expect Thunder.
- this kinda just spams Psyshock once it realises Mence isn't faster than it, so it can dish out big damage to the team pretty easily. However it can be dealt with by playing around with predicted switches or revenge killing with Arceus, Xerneas or Ho-oh.
- this or regular Life Orb Mewtwo. Taunt / CM + 3 Attacks can dish out big damage pretty easily and it outspeeds everything on the team. I just have to beat it with Xerneas, Ho-oh, P-Don or P-Ogre in a 1v1 situation, but will take massive damage in the process.


Thanks for reading!

EDIT: added in some changes after some suggestions (highlighted in italics)
 
Last edited:
I really like this team; if I saw it in team builder, I'd think you were a Mega Salamance HO team. I guess my only problem is that your defogger is weak to rocks; if you haven't tested Gira-O, it's an all-around better Defogger imo. Then again Refresh lets you handle Toxic stall which could otherwise really screw your team up. The team looks good to me though, nice work.
 

PISTOLERO

I come to bury Caesar, not to praise him.
Hello Dilwar, it is nice to see a team with such creative sets, especially Sleep Talk offensive Primal Kyogre, as it's something I have myself used and compresses rather nicely. I can see that it is well constructed, and therefore don't want to suggest any teammember changes.

What I can notice is a Xerneas weakness. You say that you have Primal Groudon + Extremekiller Arceus for it, but I can see how a well played Xerneas team can easily lure your Groudon with something like Calm Mind Kyogre, then set up with Xerneas and blow through your team later on. The lack of Body Slam on Salamence means that Xerneas can set up on it reasonably easily, taking an Extremespeed fairly easily, then blowing through Primal Groudon after it has been weakened. For this reason, although you mentioned that you like Ho-Oh to be running max Speed, I think that a 248 HP / 52 SpD spread is better, and this also insures you against Calm Mind Arceus, which 0 / 0 Ho-Oh will struggle against, particularly if Stealth Rock is up.

Something interesting you could try over Earthquake is Whirlwind, as this lets you prevent Salamence from setting up Dragon Dances, which could otherwise cause you issues should Groudon be weakened (which is not unlikely), and also gets rid of Xerneas, while shuffling around the opposing team and letting you scout their switchins, racking up hazard damage. Thunder Wave is also an interesting move to try although I think that Whirlwind is better, even if it is unconventional.

Next, I think that defensive Mega Salamence kind of needs to run Body Slam, as the paralysis is a large deterrent to opposing setup sweepers - as it is, something like Calm Mind Arceus can set up on Salamence without any repercussions as you are also not running Dragon Tail. 300 Speed is a rather pointless benchmark as there are no base 100s that run a neutral nature. I think you should change to either 248 HP / 244 Def / 16 Spe which outspeeds neutral 252 Speed base 90s, or 248 HP / 204 Def / 56 Spe, which outspeeds neutral 252 Speed Rayquaza and Kyurem-W. This also grants you more bulk, hitting the benchmark of not being OHKOed by +3 Extremespeed after Stealth Rock. Body Slam should 2HKO Extremekiller after Stealth Rock and a round of Life Orb recoil as well.

One last thing that you could consider is running Aromatherapy on Geomancy Xerneas, although it would be hard to choose whether to replace Thunder or Focus Blast. This would let you run Dragon Tail over Refresh on Salamence, which is nice, but as it is, your Mega Salamence seems to counter Ho-Oh pretty well, and the set is original and innovative.

I hope that this rate helps you, and good luck!

Edit: oh, this is my 40th rate! It's nice that it was for one of the best teams so far this year :)
 
I helped problems build a very similar team to combat evuelf in week 2 spl. Not outright claiming you stole our team since I don't have any idea where your team dates back to. All I know is I almost had this combinations of mons lying around in builder long before SPL and gave it to problems who gave his input (most notably using ekiller).

Replay: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-ubers-33346

Other than that the team is obviously very solid- it was used in spl for good reason and if you were actually oblivous and just coincidentally happened to build this then kudos to you. The sets me and problems used were slightly different, for good reason, some of yours seem very off- Kyogre, Mence and Ho-oh are stuff you could very much optimize. I personally prefer Thunder Wave Ho-oh, CM+3atk Ogre and Body Slam+Dtail Mence. The synergy para provides for Kyogre is incredible and is the basis for the team's idea, namely weakening Primal Groudon for a Xerneas sweep. I also use Aroma GeoXern to combat Darkrai better. Running a dedicated absorber like CB Ho-oh or defensive Kyogre is an option but I felt the team was bulky enough to the point you didn't need a dedicated sleep absorber. Since the team has no Toxic immunes, Aroma on Xern is practically needed although it makes your team a bit weaker to Ho-oh, to the point you would consider Stone Edge on Pdon or Ekiller (or both). Refresh on Mence is somewhat workable but the lack of phazing will be costly whenever you face Ekiller or DDpdon. An alternative to combating status is running rest/cm/scald/ib ogre.

The biggest threats are psyshic moves, Latios puts in a lot of pressure by just spamming Psyshock so you gotta watch out with that.
 
Hello Dilwar, it is nice to see a team with such creative sets, especially Sleep Talk offensive Primal Kyogre, as it's something I have myself used and compresses rather nicely. I can see that it is well constructed, and therefore don't want to suggest any teammember changes.

What I can notice is a Xerneas weakness. You say that you have Primal Groudon + Extremekiller Arceus for it, but I can see how a well played Xerneas team can easily lure your Groudon with something like Calm Mind Kyogre, then set up with Xerneas and blow through your team later on. The lack of Body Slam on Salamence means that Xerneas can set up on it reasonably easily, taking an Extremespeed fairly easily, then blowing through Primal Groudon after it has been weakened. For this reason, although you mentioned that you like Ho-Oh to be running max Speed, I think that a 248 HP / 52 SpD spread is better, and this also insures you against Calm Mind Arceus, which 0 / 0 Ho-Oh will struggle against, particularly if Stealth Rock is up.

Something interesting you could try over Earthquake is Whirlwind, as this lets you prevent Salamence from setting up Dragon Dances, which could otherwise cause you issues should Groudon be weakened (which is not unlikely), and also gets rid of Xerneas, while shuffling around the opposing team and letting you scout their switchins, racking up hazard damage. Thunder Wave is also an interesting move to try although I think that Whirlwind is better, even if it is unconventional.

Next, I think that defensive Mega Salamence kind of needs to run Body Slam, as the paralysis is a large deterrent to opposing setup sweepers - as it is, something like Calm Mind Arceus can set up on Salamence without any repercussions as you are also not running Dragon Tail. 300 Speed is a rather pointless benchmark as there are no base 100s that run a neutral nature. I think you should change to either 248 HP / 244 Def / 16 Spe which outspeeds neutral 252 Speed base 90s, or 248 HP / 204 Def / 56 Spe, which outspeeds neutral 252 Speed Rayquaza and Kyurem-W. This also grants you more bulk, hitting the benchmark of not being OHKOed by +3 Extremespeed after Stealth Rock. Body Slam should 2HKO Extremekiller after Stealth Rock and a round of Life Orb recoil as well.

One last thing that you could consider is running Aromatherapy on Geomancy Xerneas, although it would be hard to choose whether to replace Thunder or Focus Blast. This would let you run Dragon Tail over Refresh on Salamence, which is nice, but as it is, your Mega Salamence seems to counter Ho-Oh pretty well, and the set is original and innovative.

I hope that this rate helps you, and good luck!

Edit: oh, this is my 40th rate! It's nice that it was for one of the best teams so far this year :)
Xerneas is definitely capable of setting up on an uninvested Mence and then taking an Espeed from Ekiller, but I never really ran into this issue due to things such as Stealth Rock being up. But like you said, a well played Xern and pressure on P-Don can break through (which I wasn't aware of), so I'll definitely try out that Ho-oh spread as a back up check. The reason I was iffy on Body Slam is because I wasn't too comfortable relying on something that has a 30% chance of happening, and there were quite a few times I really wanted that extra power. But I guess I'll give it another go to see if it plays out better since deterring CM Arc forms is big. The new Ho-oh spread would also work great for Arc forms like you said.

Aromatherapy on Xerneas to allow Dragon Tail on Mence is great, I'll definitely be using that now. It does make me slightly weaker to Ho-oh but Salamence handles that well enough. And yeah the 56 Spe spread on Mence is definitely better, as I never found the 300 benchmark coming in to use in situations that 56 Spe won't, which is why I made sure to point it out as an alternative spread. I'm quite biased on using EQ on Ho-oh, as I really like getting through things like T-Tar. But Thunder Wave to prevent Mence set ups and slow things down for Kyogre is a cool idea.

Thanks for the rate (and compliments hehe). I liked it as it pointed out some weaknesses I wasn't aware of.
 
I helped problems build a very similar team to combat evuelf in week 2 spl. Not outright claiming you stole our team since I don't have any idea where your team dates back to. All I know is I almost had this combinations of mons lying around in builder long before SPL and gave it to problems who gave his input (most notably using ekiller).

Replay: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-ubers-33346

Other than that the team is obviously very solid- it was used in spl for good reason and if you were actually oblivous and just coincidentally happened to build this then kudos to you. The sets me and problems used were slightly different, for good reason, some of yours seem very off- Kyogre, Mence and Ho-oh are stuff you could very much optimize. I personally prefer Thunder Wave Ho-oh, CM+3atk Ogre and Body Slam+Dtail Mence. The synergy para provides for Kyogre is incredible and is the basis for the team's idea, namely weakening Primal Groudon for a Xerneas sweep. I also use Aroma GeoXern to combat Darkrai better. Running a dedicated absorber like CB Ho-oh or defensive Kyogre is an option but I felt the team was bulky enough to the point you didn't need a dedicated sleep absorber. Since the team has no Toxic immunes, Aroma on Xern is practically needed although it makes your team a bit weaker to Ho-oh, to the point you would consider Stone Edge on Pdon or Ekiller (or both). Refresh on Mence is somewhat workable but the lack of phazing will be costly whenever you face Ekiller or DDpdon. An alternative to combating status is running rest/cm/scald/ib ogre.

The biggest threats are psyshic moves, Latios puts in a lot of pressure by just spamming Psyshock so you gotta watch out with that.
I built it around the time IP was announced so I could ladder with it, so roughly 3 weeks ago I guess. Looking at that replay, they do look really similar which is pretty telling, but I can honestly say it's not a steal, mainly evidenced by the different sets and slightly different ideas behind the team. The Ubers tier also contains few Pokemon, so the same Pokemon on teams is less of a co-incidence (I mean just look at HO - Deo S, Ekiller, Geoxern, P-Don, Darkrai, M-Gar or Mence, and that's pretty much the standard HO team found on ladder).

I really like the ideas behind your sets, and it's true the team is bulky enough to handle Darkrai between Ho-oh and P-Ogre. PISTOLERO also mentioned T-Wave Ho-oh so it definitely looks superior and CM P-Ogre would do a massive job in breaking walls. I agree with everything else (Dtail on Mence for Aroma on Xern) and Stone Edge Ekiller does look better these days as Mence and Yveltal as defensive checks look more common than things like Ghostceus and Gira. Yeah, Latios is added to the threat list now that I think about it, thanks for the rate :).
 
Yo Buddy this is a very cool team right here.I think you asked me on the server for a rate in pm of this team before you actually posted it here.And yeah as i told you before this is a very good team and i have almost nothing to add.
The only issue i'm thinking of is stone edge extreme killer and Salamence actually.Specially this Classic HO team everybody use.they come with deoxys speed set up rocks.Then to Darkrai cause tons of damage,then to Xerneas,then the team will be weakened enough to actually be swept by salamence or extremekiller with stone edge.So basically while your team is actually offensive and can retaliate,the opponents Darkrai makes you lose momentum and allows your opponent to set up mon after mon and weaken you team to at the end be swept by a extreme killer or salamence.
I think that you should definetly try a giratina offense instead of salamence and test might work out better...
But really cool team and good luck.
 
Yo Buddy this is a very cool team right here.I think you asked me on the server for a rate in pm of this team before you actually posted it here.And yeah as i told you before this is a very good team and i have almost nothing to add.
The only issue i'm thinking of is stone edge extreme killer and Salamence actually.Specially this Classic HO team everybody use.they come with deoxys speed set up rocks.Then to Darkrai cause tons of damage,then to Xerneas,then the team will be weakened enough to actually be swept by salamence or extremekiller with stone edge.So basically while your team is actually offensive and can retaliate,the opponents Darkrai makes you lose momentum and allows your opponent to set up mon after mon and weaken you team to at the end be swept by a extreme killer or salamence.
I think that you should definetly try a giratina offense instead of salamence and test might work out better...
But really cool team and good luck.
That description actually describes EXACTLY the way I lost a couple of games, however there is no mention of Mence. Yes, Darkrai would do a lot of damage, but that really means a weakened Primal Kyogre since that checks it. A Xerneas means a weakened P-Don, but M-Mence is still alive. And as suggested by Hack and PISTOLERO, I've actually changed Refresh on Mence for Dragon Tail, which really prevents the late game sweeps from Mence and Ekiller. Aromatherapy was put on Xerneas to balance this. I guess it really comes down to how the battle plays out, in terms of predicting and what not, because I have also beaten these kinds of teams too. That is definitely not to say that Stone Edge Ekiller isn't a threat though, and I made sure to put that on the threatlist. I can't really think of a way to fix it. Gira can work, but it can't switch to Ho-oh, and also loses to the more common Shadow Claw. It really comes down to one or the other, and I'm more comfortable with Mence, as it has access to Recovery and is just a better check. Thanks for the rate bro :)
 
Hey, nice team you've got here, there's not much to work on. The only thing that I could say that's lacking is the lack of an entry hazards setter-whether or not you feel that this goes well with your team, entry hazards are an essential part of many teams. If you can't think of a good setter I'd recommend Deoxys-D, with a Recover-Toxic-StealthRock-Spikes set. As to what you should switch out for this, I'm not sure, that's something that you should decide if you want to go for a setter. Once again, great team!
 

Lemonade

WOOPAGGING
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis an Artist Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Hey, nice team you've got here, there's not much to work on. The only thing that I could say that's lacking is the lack of an entry hazards setter-whether or not you feel that this goes well with your team, entry hazards are an essential part of many teams. If you can't think of a good setter I'd recommend Deoxys-D, with a Recover-Toxic-StealthRock-Spikes set. As to what you should switch out for this, I'm not sure, that's something that you should decide if you want to go for a setter. Once again, great team!
he has Primal Groudon o.o
 
That description actually describes EXACTLY the way I lost a couple of games, however there is no mention of Mence. Yes, Darkrai would do a lot of damage, but that really means a weakened Primal Kyogre since that checks it. A Xerneas means a weakened P-Don, but M-Mence is still alive. And as suggested by Hack and PISTOLERO, I've actually changed Refresh on Mence for Dragon Tail, which really prevents the late game sweeps from Mence and Ekiller. Aromatherapy was put on Xerneas to balance this. I guess it really comes down to how the battle plays out, in terms of predicting and what not, because I have also beaten these kinds of teams too. That is definitely not to say that Stone Edge Ekiller isn't a threat though, and I made sure to put that on the threatlist. I can't really think of a way to fix it. Gira can work, but it can't switch to Ho-oh, and also loses to the more common Shadow Claw. It really comes down to one or the other, and I'm more comfortable with Mence, as it has access to Recovery and is just a better check. Thanks for the rate bro :)
I feel your worries in the HO match up comes from inexperience rather than the team being responsible. At least when I played around in tests (though you have to understand I used the sets I talked about earlier) I never really had a big issue with HO. Often you can lead vs the Deo-S with Ho-oh and straight up paralyze it and switch to mence to defog. Another option is leading with Xern, which limits Deo-S to 1 entry hazard due to it being forced to knock off. After that, Darkrai may or may not come in. If it does you can simply throw Xern to sleep and go Pogre (tho you need more bulk on your to do that) and eventually get the chance to defog against the pdon that comes in after the Darkrai goes down... I prefer method 1 as it conserves Xerneas which can act as a Ekiller check to take pressure off Mence. After a defog, Ho-oh, Xerneas and Mence puts in ridic work vs most offense, and Ekiller will always be solid vs these no matter the situation. Another tip I can give you in this match up is to that the order of importance in mons go: 1. Ekiller 2. Groudon 3. Salamence 4. Xerneas 5. Ho-oh 6. Kyogre. Of course this is a big generalization but it should give some perspective of what to in vs the typical deo-s HO.
 
Last edited:
I feel your worries in the HO match up comes from inexperience rather than the team being responsible. At least when I played around in tests (though you have to understand I used the sets I talked about earlier) I never really had a big issue with Ho-oh. Often you can lead vs the Deo-S with Ho-oh and straight up paralyze it and switch to mence to defog. Another option is leading with Xern, which limits Deo-S to 1 entry hazard due to it being forced to knock off. After that, Darkrai may or may not come in. If it does you can simply throw Xern to sleep and go Pogre (tho you need more bulk on your to do that) and eventually get the chance to defog against the pdon that comes in after the Darkrai goes down... I prefer method 1 as it conserves Xerneas which can act as a Ekiller check to take pressure off Mence. After a defog, Ho-oh, Xerneas and Mence puts in ridic work vs most offense, and Ekiller will always be solid vs these no matter the situation. Another tip I can give you in this match up is to that the order of importance in mons go: 1. Ekiller 2. Groudon 3. Salamence 4. Xerneas 5. Ho-oh 6. Kyogre. Of course this is a big generalization but it should give some perspective of what to in vs the typical deo-s HO.
Yeah non T-Wave Ho-oh made the match up against Deo-S harder, and I never considered the option of leading with Xern (did Ekiller or Ho-oh to hope for burns), so I agree with inexperience on that. The rest of the tips on beating HO make perfect sense, describing exactly how the game would play out. I feel a lot more confident against typical HO teams now. Glad to get solid advice from an SPL player, you gave exactly what I was looking for - improvement.
 

PROBLEMS

AHEAD OF HIS TIME
as hacks explained 6/6 mons the same with sets which are 95% the same but heres the version i used vs evuelf in spl which we built, never going to use this team again anyway as its so weak to latios and was a built ct so who cares - heres the well built import guys if you want it as the evs and movesets compliment this build as well as possible (LordSquad);

REPTILE @ Red Orb
Trait: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 52 Def / 204 SDef
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Earthquake
- Lava Plume
- Stealth Rock
- Dragon Tail

BIRD @ Life Orb
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 160 Atk / 52 SDef / 48 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Thunder Wave
- Brave Bird
- Sacred Fire
- Roost

HORSE @ Life Orb
Trait: Multitype
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Stone Edge
- Extreme Speed
- Earthquake

STAG @ Power Herb
Trait: Fairy Aura
EVs: 88 HP / 252 SAtk / 168 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Moonblast
- Geomancy
- Focus Blast
- Thunder

WHALE @ Blue Orb
Trait: Drizzle
EVs: 200 HP / 252 SAtk / 56 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Thunder
- Ice Beam
- Origin Pulse

DRAGON (M) @ Salamencite
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 148 Def / 112 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Dragon Tail
- Roost
- Body Slam
- Defog


edit: the fact your nicknames are so similar makes this ever more sketchy, i would normally blow-up and 'WTF YOU STOLE MY TEAM' but i feel a more intelligent and helpful approach to this but simply posting the 'better version' would help the community with something i'm never going to use again ;)

firereptile - REPTILE > unicorn - STAG > HORSEUS - HORSE > BLUE WHALE - WHALE
 
Last edited:
Hey there,
there a just a few things I noticed. I would like to see a different Defogger and an offensive Mega Salamance. The reason for it is, your build is really offensive and Defog Mence rapes your momentum. Latis will give you Defog Support, Water resistence, Groudon resistence and Healing wish. Using Defog on Latias means you can go for Dragon Dance Mega Salamence which gives you more offensive room and will help you a lot preparing an Ekiller or Xerneas Sweep.
It is not much to change because the team is already good but I hope I was able to help you. Giratina-O over Mega Salamence will work too in case you do not want to change Ho-Oh.

Latias (F) @ Soul Dew
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Defog
- Healing Wish
- Psyshock
- Draco Meteor

Salamence (M) @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
Happiness: 0
EVs: 200 HP / 132 Atk / 176 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Roost
- Frustration
- Earthquake
 
Last edited:
Add Mewtwo @ Life Orb/Mewtwo-Mega-Y to your threat list. This mon, literally, gets a kill every time it comes in on something that can't OHKO it. You have no switch-ins for it.
 
Last edited:

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top