np: ORAS OU Suspect Process, Round 2 - Spider Man [Metagrossite remains OU]

[RichieTheGarchomp]

You did not understand what I meant when I said Aegislash made the game stale. Aegislash's overcentralization the game stale. If I stated that Mega Metagross was a revenge killer, I probably meant Choice Scarf Landorus-T in stating that it is one of the most common revenge killers in OU.

Aegislash, Mega Mawile, and Mega Salamence all had a number of checks, but they were all really shaky checks, just like Mega Metagross' checks are. A check is not meant to completely stop the Pokemon it is supposed to check; it simply has a certain quality to it that gives it a more favorable match-up one-on-one against another threat, though it is not guaranteed to win due to deviation in movepool, different spreads on the Pokemon it is supposed to check, etc.

I was pointing out that Mega Metagross could survive Lando-T's Earthquake because that itself is not an easy feat for a Steel-type that is weak to it to pull off. Also, Ice Punch exists on Mega Gross, and it cleanly OHKOs standard Choice Scarf Landorus-T.

Seeing too much Aegi was boring, yes. I remember seeing that sick bitch everywhere I go, but not the point.

Aegi, MMaw, and MSala all had unviable checks that were ranked in places like RU and even NU. MMeta's checks and counters arent shaky lol. Bisharp needs very little support to OHKO with Sucker Punch (Spikes/Rocks does the trick). A check cannot switch into the pokemon it wants to check, but it wins in every circumstance not including hax, therefore Lando T is a check.

I know you were pointing out its bulk, and I agree, its amazing. No short of that.

Ice Punch is more scarce than EQ and no one is giving up Grass Knot or other coverage just to take out Lando T, who is probably only coming out on revenge kills.

 

[Sergeant Spooky]

Greninja, Aegislash, Mega-Kangaskhan, Mega-Mawile, Mega Gengar, Mega Salamence and Mega Lucario all had a negative impact on the Meta game. They centralised the metagame until you had to carry 3 checks to them, which is insane. That's why they were banned. And now we have Mega Metagross. Mega Metagross, Mega Diancie and Mega Sableye are in my eyes equally good. They are the faces of their respective play styles. I don't think Mega Metagross is centralising in a negative way. I believe it's just the face of ORAS OU. If you were to ban Mega Metagross fairy offence will be broken. And then we'll ban Diancie and Clefable and probably a few more fairies. And then we'll ban Sableye.

The Mega trio is just the face of ORAS OU. DONT BAN.

While I do agree it shouldn't be banned, thinking Mega Metagross is the sole thing keeping Fairies in check is just wrong and shouldn't be a reason for keeping it around. I remember the same shit being said when Aegis was being tested.

I'd also really like people to not say that Meta/Sab/Diancie are some holy trinity and the flagships of their "respective playstyles." Every time I read that I can literally feel my thoughts being damaged. It's just that profoundly stupid. And I'm not singling you out or anything, Jernmax, I just feel the need to say this.

This is how I see the metagame right now, a combination of these 3 megas: Mega Sableye Stall, Mega Metagross Hyper Offense and Mega Diancie (or Mega Garde if you want) Bulky Offense. Removing only one of these 3 pokemons means that another mon would take great benefit from it, Diancie in this case (but also Mega Gardevoir). Talking realistically, I think that the Metagross situation is very similar to Aegislash one: I know many people that regretted voting for his ban (I am one of those), since it marked the beginning of the bulky offense era (Avante Palestra by Destiny Device and Mega Heracross Rain are 2 good examples) with mons like Mega Heracross and Gardevoir finally being able to spam their powerfull stab moves, with pretty much nothing able to resist them. Now, I think that if Metagross gets banned, not only offense will lose a really good switch to Latios and Fairies in general, but the whole metagame would be more unbalanced than it is now. Thus, I'm going to say no ban.

The fact that someone took the time to make this image AND THEN PEOPLE TOOK IT SERIOUSLY is baffling. It implies that these three are the best choice for each archetype all the time (thus amazing megas like Scizor, Lopunny, Altaria, Gyarados, or Gardevoir are sub-optimal choices), it implies that they're only good on a team of that type (which is just wrong) and it implies that they're the only ones keeping each other in check. Like am I just missing something with this trinity rock/paper/scissors bullshit?

 

[Zebstrika]

I agree, even if the Metagross-Sableye-Diancie picture of the metagame were realistic, it would just mean that Metagross teams would go out of their way to beat Sableye teams, Sableye teams would go out of their way to beat Fairy teams, and Diancie teams would go out of their way to beat Metagross teams. In other words, the meta would be just as centralized as if there was 1 top threat, the only difference is that the centralization is different for each team archetype.

And it's really just glorified rock/paper/scissors bullshit as Sergeant Spooky said

 

[AM]

Keep the discussion on M-Metagross, not Aegislash or past suspects. Also please read the OP and the suspect etiquette thread in the OP and on the OU subforums front page. It's really not that hard and plenty of comments have been deleted because people haven't been reading the rules. Thanks.

 

[Reverb]

So after discovering Mega Meta might be a spider, I say ban it because I'm terrified of spiders. In all seriousness, it's incredibly bulky, allowing it to tank hits. At the same time, it hits incredibly hard and has a very good 100 speed tier. I'm not saying it's impossible to check, but most "checks" still get don't like switching into it, especially Lando-T on the mega-evo turn (b/c of Clear Body). Moreover, one has to devote considerable resources to checking Mega Meta, and if one loses their check, it's pretty much gg. It should be noted, of course, that Mega Meta's resistance to SR means it can come in and out with relative ease.

Ultimately, this makes for a highly centralizing Pokemon, and I think the metagame is much richer (i.e. more balanced) without this metallic behemoth. I noticed much more diverse teams on the suspect ladder, and that should be encouraged. I'll be voting ban.

 

[GlassVeins]

As a bit of a lurker, I feel that this whole thread boils down to these few things:
1: Does mega metagross hit too hard per attack?
2: Is it too bulky and fast to reliably kill without relying on obscure pokemon?
3: Do its common coverage moves in combination with 1 and 2 provide it with too many ways to hit its opponents?
4: is the fact that it has no reliable recovery a major problem?
5:Is the combination of the above qualities simply too much for the current metagame to handle?

If we can answer these, and back them up with proof, we will have gone a long ways toward deciding whether to ban it. several of these have been answered in part, but I feel we should answer them as a whole.

 

[Aberforth]

Use arguments such as common cores, actual meta-game trends, whether or not these trends justify a healthy meta or not, just some examples as your arguments instead of aspects that rely on match-up and practicality, not theorymon.

I dont feel like I've done this enough in this thread, so looking at these three things I'll say why I'm leaning no ban, although I am definitely less no ban than I was when I started.

Common cores do beat this. Gliscor + Slowbro, Slowbro + lando-t, Gliscor + heatran, ferrothorn + lando-t, charizard-x + garchomp, ext. Of these mons, the only core that really gets shut down by metagross + magnezone is the ferrothron cores, as that allows Metagross to forgo Hammer arm, but most of these cores existed before metagross was a thing, and in my opinion most of them got objectively better in the transition into oras, with or without metagross. And not just defensive cores beat it, offensive cores do too, with tyranitar + excadrill beating it (all excadrills in sand beat it, ttar is just an example), lopunny and scarf keldeo can do massive damage to it, bisharp + lando-t will handle it, talonflame + gyarados will handle it, ext. Metagross is often paired with keldeo, and many of the defensive and offensive cores that deal well with metagross can also handle keldeo somewhat well themselves.

Metagross is the 13th most used pokemon, 6 of the 12 can revenge kill/handle metagross. An argument could be made that this is overcentralising the tier around these mons because of metagross, but looking at the november stats (where mega mence was briefly in the tier), 9 of the top 10 from November are still above metagross, and were before it became the best mega. The other member of that top ten is greninja too. So I dont believe it is particularly overcentralising, at least no more than things like Zard-X was in XY.

Also, the things that it checks? Stuff like Diancie, clefable, keldeo? They actually rose in usage (possibly due to greninja), but that doesn't tell me that it is centralising to the point of something like aegislash, where you almost outright could not run certain otherwise viable mons because of it and it alone.

These two factors, combined with my previous points are why I am opposed to a ban of metagross. If you disagree with me, please send me a private message, I would like to have a good conversation about this with somebody who disagrees with me, and not just an argument on a thread that ends up being deleted for being off topic.

EDIT: Also, proof of reqs in case computer dies and I've lost points.

 

[baddummy]

Personally, after spending a little bit of time on the suspect ladder, I'm for a ban.

Lots of points have already been raised about Mega Metagross, lack of counters being one of them, it keeping Diancie in check being another. While I'd agree that a lack of counters doesn't necessarily imply that a pokemon should be banned, Charizard Y, Landorus I, and CB Azu are all examples of pokemon that have extremely limited switch ins, and yet they fit in to the meta just fine. There are lots of reasons why Metagross is broken when these pokemon simply aren't, a good one being its speed stat. A high speed stat, and a lack of counters also implies a shortage on checks, which is obviously problematic.

Metagross has a huge BST, people have pointed it out before, and I feel it's worth pointing out again, because it lets it tank hits incredibly well, being significantly physically bulkier in terms of base stats than even Skarmory. Its special defences are admirable too, being slightly less than a Heatran with identical investment. Now, sheer bulk isn't a good reason to ban it either, but it is certainly another aspect to consider.

There's yet more to Metagross. Finally, it can come in on, and crush lots of common fairy types, and also gives offence a good way to take advantage of the latis. I'm not somebody who thinks that something should be banned just because it is keeping certain mons from being as effective as they could be - to do that would be choosing favourites. However, because of the pokemon it can switch in on and scare out, it does have a serious impact on the current meta, I think this much we can all agree on. Whether this reason alone is enough to ban it is another matter though.

Anyway, here is the point I have been building up to: Where exactly are its weak points? It places huge offensive pressure on the opponent, tanks hits incredibly well due to its 700 BST, which is far and away higher than almost everything else in OU, has good switch in opportunities, and has a good variety of moves that it can run, even if some sets do prove to be stronger than others. I understand that people can see Mega Diancie as being broken without Metagross there, but really, keeping one broken mon to stop another from being broken accomplishes little, in my opinion anyway. Metagross really does just dominate the tier not by being unbelievably powerful in any one field, but by being one of the best in all of them. I'm aware it's weak to sucker punch, and Scarf Lando T can check it, but what I'm really trying to say is that when you compare its very short list of disadvantages to the its support, power, variety in moves, and matchup against other common playstyles, you can see that it takes a large number of traits that make pokemon strong by themselves, wraps them all together, and forms into something that is just too much for the tier.

 

[shiloh]

After playing for a little bit, I am mostly on the No Ban side. (Just remember this is my opinion, and I am not that great of a player)

One of my main problems with it is that its Dual STAB coverage isn’t that great, and it has to rely on its coverage moves. This is another problem, as most of its moves have 90% accuracy, which while it may only be a 10% chance to miss, happens more than expected.While it may be able to dish out damage to other pokemon, they can reliably take it and revenge it.. And while it may be able to switch out into checks for each of these pokemon (which requires perfect team building and prediction), it will still be worn down, and then it will no longer have the right HP to take hits. A lot of the calc’s that are being shown show how bulky it is, it can barely take those hits, and it is not that hard to deal chip damage to it. Once it has taken just a tiny bit of damage, it is easily killed by most fast offensive pokemon like Lopunny and Talonflame.

I do understand where a lot of the arguments are coming from, in the fact that it seems impossible to revenge kill (which a lot of posts before show that it really isn’t with pokemon like Charizard or Excadrill). But in the end, while it may not have Counters, there are plenty of checks, and that is what makes it not broken in my opinion.

 

[RichieTheGarchomp]

So after discovering Mega Meta might be a spider, I say ban it because I'm terrified of spiders. In all seriousness, it's incredibly bulky, allowing it to tank hits. At the same time, it hits incredibly hard and has a very good 100 speed tier. I'm not saying it's impossible to check, but most "checks" still get don't like switching into it, especially Lando-T on the mega-evo turn (b/c of Clear Body). Moreover, one has to devote considerable resources to checking Mega Meta, and if one loses their check, it's pretty much gg. It should be noted, of course, that Mega Meta's resistance to SR means it can come in and out with relative ease.

Ultimately, this makes for a highly centralizing Pokemon, and I think the metagame is much richer (i.e. more balanced) without this metallic behemoth. I noticed much more diverse teams on the suspect ladder, and that should be encouraged. I'll be voting ban.

You know, as a arachnophobic I agree with this first sentence. Spiders are spooky.

Sadly I just come here to nitpick a wee bit.

It is very bulky, but with bulk comes survivability. With no way to restore recovery, its survivability is basically cut in half. It really doesn't hit amazingly hard. Example:

252 Atk Mega Lopunny High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Rock: 374-444 (98.1 - 116.5%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Rock: 366-432 (96 - 113.3%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

Mega Lopunny without Adamant hits harder than MMeta. MLop is known to have "attacking problems" in the shape of it not being dominant due to not 2HKO'ing the meta.

MMeta also does not have something he wants: Boosting moves. But he couldnt use them due to him having coverage problems if he did so. I know you meant 110 speed so i wont worry about that.

Do you know what a check is? (wow that seemed a bit harsh on my part, my bad) Most of these checks avenge and either 2HKO or OHKO with Rocks.

Pokémon A checks Pokémon B if, when Pokémon A is given a free switch into Pokémon B, Pokémon A can win every time, even under the worst case scenario, without factoring in hax.

It does not have to worry about switching in.

252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Metagross: 257-304 (85.3 - 100.9%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Metagross in Sun: 576-678 (191.3 - 225.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Metagross: 404-476 (134.2 - 158.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

-1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 109-130 (28.5 - 34%) -- 99% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

4 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Metagross: 210-248 (69.7 - 82.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Seriously, 4 very common things that destroy it anally. People think like hes broken or something when all of his checks are very common. Sure, 43% chance to OHKO isnt reliable, but thats like saying he wont come in atleast once before. Seriously, most of his checks are more common then him. And dont pull that "theres 5 more pokemon to worry about" when you shouldnt centralize your team on a mega. The Lando T thing you put on topic was way too reliant on whats going on in the match, therefore thats a bit unreliable. If one loses their "check" they arent fucked. First off, sometimes MMeta doesnt even need its checks to lose. Getting Burned by Scald or Lava Plume on the switchin, geting TWaved (popular on many pokemon) etc. He isnt that hard to handle. Seriously, this is the same for every pokemon: If you lose Azu on your team thats semi weak to Keldeo, you're fucked. So just because of this makes MMeta broken? I'm sure as hell not surprised if MMeta sweeps after his common and effective checks/counters are taken out on a team.

Honestly, I still think MMeta doesnt have what it needs to be banned. He has a decent amount of flaws and a great amount of checks to be a force with weaknesses.

With MMeta banned, I dont see the meta being any better, and in my opinion it got worse. MDiancie is fucking everywhere, and I'm like forced to fucking run Scarf Lando or MScizor (hes good but i dont wanna run him on every fucking team) because shes so annoying. MMeta was like the best thing to take on Diancie, and everything else is obviously less viable and has more flaws than MMeta. Sure, thats not my anti ban reason, but i stated plenty of reasons why i dont want it banned before.

But, I honestly agree with some parts about this, but I just wanted to state my opinion. Still leaning against No ban.

 

[whide]

Mega metagross is NOT a worthy ban. Well, we still do have a very big lack of counters to him since the previous bans...

252+ Atk Mega Metagross Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 214-254 (70.3 - 83.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO [THEN] +2 (Swords dance - she can resist 1 earthquake as shown be4) 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Mega Metagross: 514-606 (170.7 - 201.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

His mega is clearly overpowered not due to the lack of counters, but due to his speed, but have you ever thought on something like this: Wile metagross can do this:

252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 4+ Def Sableye: 268-316 (88.1 - 103.9%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

he can also do this:

252+ Atk Tough Claws burned Mega Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 4+ Def Sableye: 134-158 (44 - 51.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Burn is something that every single physical damage based pokémon has to fear, and mega metagross is not an exception as even running a super-effective move, it would be menless as he, without his defensive mega or huge EVs in DEF, could resist for a 3HKO, not considering moonlight/recover...
Something else that should be considered: So what is nothing can 1HKO him other then mawile? It would be just like countering a tanker like Chansey or ferrothorn: everything is patience, and the chances are high sometimes... setting up few layers of spikes wit another pokémon, let's say skarmory, could also give you the free chance of killing it eventually.

252+ Atk Mega Absol Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Metagross: 224-266 (74.4 - 88.3%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after 3 layers of Spikes

Plus, there are many, many pokémons that could simply resist his blows wile annoying him. Ferrothorn, for example, can easily hold it, leech seed it and keep protecting until his health is low enough to be handled by some random sucker puncher.

252+ Atk Mega Metagross Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 78-92 (22.1 - 26.1%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 69-82 (19.6 - 23.2%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery

Other then that, Paralysis is also a great weapon, you can freely send out a Volbeat or Thundurus with the classic Prankster + Thunder Wave, as sashed Volbeat and normal Thundurus would clearly endure a bullet punch.
Another viable thing: Confuse ray.
Sableye once again gets the flashlights with his prankster habilities: if he gets metagross confused, BAM! One "Hits himself in confusion" is enough to get him ready for things like this:

252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Talonflame: 68-81 (22.8 - 27.2%) -- 51.4% chance to 4HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Metagross: 332-392 (110.2 - 130.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

So, yes, there are lots of viable counters to Metagross-Mega, one of them including the Talonflame itself - one of the MOST USED pokémons in here. So, yes, there are many counters and strategies that can get him trapped and unable to progress.

 

[Random Passerby]

You know, as a arachnophobic I agree with this first sentence. Spiders are spooky.

Sadly I just come here to nitpick a wee bit.

It is very bulky, but with bulk comes survivability. With no way to restore recovery, its survivability is basically cut in half. It really doesn't hit amazingly hard. Example:

252 Atk Mega Lopunny High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Rock: 374-444 (98.1 - 116.5%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Rock: 366-432 (96 - 113.3%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

Mega Lopunny without Adamant hits harder than MMeta. MLop is known to have "attacking problems" in the shape of it not being dominant due to not 2HKO'ing the meta.

MMeta also does not have something he wants: Boosting moves. But he couldnt use them due to him having coverage problems if he did so. I know you meant 110 speed so i wont worry about that.

Do you know what a check is? (wow that seemed a bit harsh on my part, my bad) Most of these checks avenge and either 2HKO or OHKO with Rocks.

Pokémon A checks Pokémon B if, when Pokémon A is given a free switch into Pokémon B, Pokémon A can win every time, even under the worst case scenario, without factoring in hax.

It does not have to worry about switching in.

252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Metagross: 257-304 (85.3 - 100.9%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Metagross in Sun: 576-678 (191.3 - 225.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Metagross: 404-476 (134.2 - 158.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

-1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 109-130 (28.5 - 34%) -- 99% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

4 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Metagross: 210-248 (69.7 - 82.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Seriously, 4 very common things that destroy it anally. People think like hes broken or something when all of his checks are very common. Sure, 43% chance to OHKO isnt reliable, but thats like saying he wont come in atleast once before. Seriously, most of his checks are more common then him. And dont pull that "theres 5 more pokemon to worry about" when you shouldnt centralize your team on a mega. The Lando T thing you put on topic was way too reliant on whats going on in the match, therefore thats a bit unreliable. If one loses their "check" they arent fucked. First off, sometimes MMeta doesnt even need its checks to lose. Getting Burned by Scald or Lava Plume on the switchin, geting TWaved (popular on many pokemon) etc. He isnt that hard to handle. Seriously, this is the same for every pokemon: If you lose Azu on your team thats semi weak to Keldeo, you're fucked. So just because of this makes MMeta broken? I'm sure as hell not surprised if MMeta sweeps after his common and effective checks/counters are taken out on a team.

Honestly, I still think MMeta doesnt have what it needs to be banned. He has a decent amount of flaws and a great amount of checks to be a force with weaknesses.

With MMeta banned, I dont see the meta being any better, and in my opinion it got worse. MDiancie is fucking everywhere, and I'm like forced to fucking run Scarf Lando or MScizor (hes good but i dont wanna run him on every fucking team) because shes so annoying. MMeta was like the best thing to take on Diancie, and everything else is obviously less viable and has more flaws than MMeta. Sure, thats not my anti ban reason, but i stated plenty of reasons why i dont want it banned before.

But, I honestly agree with some parts about this, but I just wanted to state my opinion. Still leaning against No ban.

While I'm not advocating a ban, there is one problem with the checks that you listed, which is the fact that they really can't switch in. Yes, by using that definition, the check can work when given a free switch but how are you going to achieve that free switch? Normally, when you play against Mega Metagross, the safest way for its checks to come in is when one of your Pokemon just got KO-ed by it, which means it has done it's job of weakening your team. Also, Mega Charizard (both forms) are really shaky checks anyway since they're outsped and gets KO-ed by Zen Headbutt after Stealth Rock unless they're at high HP (read: 90% +). Bisharp and Scarf Lando wins if given a free switch, true but they have their own issues which are covered in other posts already so I'll not address them here.

Also, who on earth switches or keep their Mega Metagross in on Scald or Lava Plume anyway? Normally, Mega Metagross will switch out of Scald users if it can't catch them on the switch with Grass Knot while Mega Metagross actually beats Heatran, the only relevant Lava Plume user in OU. Now, if people switches Heatran into Mega Metagross, it is a dead giveaway that the Heatran is Scarfed which can be easily taken advantage of.

Thirdly, I concede that Thunder Wave is a common move in OU which cripples Mega Metagross. However, the most common users like Thundurus and Klefki will faint to Mega Metagross after that since it is frail while the bulkier users like Ferrothorn and Clefable have issues with Mega Metagross. Celebi, Chansey and Slowbro can run Thunder Wave but Celebi struggles to fit it in its moveslot while Chansey doesn't fit into all teams.

Finally, if Mega Diancie is overcentralizing or broken, we will suspect test it next. We don't keep Mega Metagross in OU to check Mega Diancie. We ban both if they're found to be broken or overcentralizing.

 

[eden]

I still don't get why people think that if Diancie is broken that MMeta shouldn't be banned. If they both are unbalanced then it makes sense to just ban both of them. MGross kinda is like Aegislash(which kept obviously many more Pokemon out of OU/made them unviable or have to run coverage just to beat it) in a way that it keeps a lot of the fairies quiet, but otherwise is just detrimental tot eh state of OU as a whole. I'm almost at reqs and feel that suspect ladder is a lot better than OU ladder was with Aegislash, I most probably will weigh in with a ban vote.

 

[Lord Wallace]

So I got my reqs a couple nights ago and I really didnt feel very enlightened by the suspect meta the way I did with the Greninja test.
I think Metagrossite is a necessary evil in this case to regulate the Lati-Fairy-Zone bullshit I kept running into (and ran myself at one point shamelessly because it worked), not to mention the cancerous M-Diancie balance teams. Like we havent spoiled balance enough by banning Greninja and Deoxys formes.

And before you give me all your "we dont keep broken to check broken" nonsense, we've had several well respected players including McMeghan express they don't think M-Meta is actually broken but want to ban it anyway to stimulate the metagame, and I guess thats fine theyre free to have that opinion, but I just didnt see it in my 100 or so battles.

I stand by No ban

 

[Tele]

While I do agree it shouldn't be banned, thinking Mega Metagross is the sole thing keeping Fairies in check is just wrong and shouldn't be a reason for keeping it around. I remember the same shit being said when Aegis was being tested.

I'd also really like people to not say that Meta/Sab/Diancie are some holy trinity and the flagships of their "respective playstyles." Every time I read that I can literally feel my thoughts being damaged. It's just that profoundly stupid. And I'm not singling you out or anything, Jernmax, I just feel the need to say this.




The fact that someone took the time to make this image AND THEN PEOPLE TOOK IT SERIOUSLY is baffling. It implies that these three are the best choice for each archetype all the time (thus amazing megas like Scizor, Lopunny, Altaria, Gyarados, or Gardevoir are sub-optimal choices), it implies that they're only good on a team of that type (which is just wrong) and it implies that they're the only ones keeping each other in check. Like am I just missing something with this trinity rock/paper/scissors bullshit?

First off, I'm not just someone, I made a name for myself and I know what I'm saying when I talk about the ou metagame. However, it is true that most people missunderstood my picture (which to be completely honest didn't take away from me more than 10 minutes) and the 3 lines following. By sharing that picture I wanted to say that I consider these 3 megas equally broken (Mega Gardevoir is very similar to Mega Diancie, and even better under some aspects) and each of them limit the teambuilding in a very heavy way. Sableye for example, is a limitation itself, obliging everyone to run on their teams a fairy type like Clefable, Sylveon and Azumarill, arguably the 3 best non megas fairies; these 3 already took a great benefeit from Greninja ban (see last usages), and they are destined to keep rising in usages, with or without Mega Metagross. Mega Altaria, Mega Diancie and Mega Gardevoir are easily slapped on every team mostly because of Sableye, and the only reason why you don't see those 3 more often is because of the Mega slot competition (which obviously increased from xy). Not to mention, Specially defensive Mega-Sableye spreads can wall the most powerfull special attackers like Charizard-Y and Landorus-I after 1 calm mind.
Mega Metagross is a heavy limitation too, as depending on his set he's able to get past of most of his so called counters, and thus you usually have to rely on cores rather than a single mon to stop it; for example, I've been using a core consisting of Starmie Hippowdon and Ferrothorn to deal with every Mega Gross set, and it has been performing very well.
Let's now consider Mega Diancie and Mega Gardevoir from the point of a player who likes balanced builds like me: Jirachi is arguably the best switch to both, altough Earth Power nearly 2HKOes, and having to wish-protect each time means you are giving a free turn to your opponent to do whatever he wants to do, like Calm Minding or sending his AV Bisharp to trap pursuit you; Scizor is the 2nd best switch, barring hp fire, while Ferrothorn and Heatran gets 2HKOed by Focus Blast. So, where are the switches? as you can see Modest Mega Gardevoir has virtually no switches on balance, with an insane 165 base special attack stat and an excellent Fairy-Psychic dual stab hitting everything, even better than Steel-Psychic stabs, from my point of view; of course, all out Offense and fat Stall have better answers to Mega Gardevoir and Diancie, and this probably makes them not suspect worthy.
Nonetheless, nobody ever went close to consider Mega Gardevoir as a potential suspect, and nobody ever will, most likely: for the same reason, I'm going to oppose the ban of Mega Metagross.

 

[Machi]

First off, I'm not just someone, I made a name for myself and I know what I'm saying when I talk about the ou metagame. However, it is true that most people missunderstood my picture (which to be completely honest didn't take away from me more than 10 minutes) and the 3 lines following. By sharing that picture I wanted to say that I consider these 3 megas equally broken (Mega Gardevoir is very similar to Mega Diancie, and even better under some aspects) and each of them limit the teambuilding in a very heavy way. Sableye for example, is a limitation itself, obliging everyone to run on their teams a fairy type like Clefable, Sylveon and Azumarill, arguably the 3 best non megas fairies; these 3 already took a great benefeit from Greninja ban (see last usages), and they are destined to keep rising in usages, with or without Mega Metagross. Mega Altaria, Mega Diancie and Mega Gardevoir are easily slapped on every team mostly because of Sableye, and the only reason why you don't see those 3 more often is because of the Mega slot competition (which obviously increased from xy). Not to mention, Specially defensive Mega-Sableye spreads can wall the most powerfull special attackers like Charizard-Y and Landorus-I after 1 calm mind.
Mega Metagross is a heavy limitation too, as depending on his set he's able to get past of most of his so called counters, and thus you usually have to rely on cores rather than a single mon to stop it; for example, I've been using a core consisting of Starmie Hippowdon and Ferrothorn to deal with every Mega Gross set, and it has been performing very well.
Let's now consider Mega Diancie and Mega Gardevoir from the point of a player who likes balanced builds like me: Jirachi is arguably the best switch to both, altough Earth Power nearly 2HKOes, and having to wish-protect each time means you are giving a free turn to your opponent to do whatever he wants to do, like Calm Minding or sending his AV Bisharp to trap pursuit you; Scizor is the 2nd best switch, barring hp fire, while Ferrothorn and Heatran gets 2HKOed by Focus Blast. So, where are the switches? as you can see Modest Mega Gardevoir has virtually no switches on balance, with an insane 165 base special attack stat and an excellent Fairy-Psychic dual stab hitting everything, even better than Steel-Psychic stabs, from my point of view; of course, all out Offense and fat Stall have better answers to Mega Gardevoir and Diancie, and this probably makes them not suspect worthy.
Nonetheless, nobody ever went close to consider Mega Gardevoir as a potential suspect, and nobody ever will, most likely: for the same reason, I'm going to oppose the ban of Mega Metagross.

I've played with both MGarde and MDiancie and I'd say the biggest difference between the both of them is that MGarde is a nightmare for more defensively oriented teams, which tend to be slower (and run mons she just eats for breakfast). Whereas MDiancie thanks to her higher speed tier and resistance to Dark and Flying is more difficult for offensive teams. They both struggle with the teams that the other fairy tends to handle with more relative ease.

Incidentally, they actually run very similar bulk in that MGarde is competent enough to take a hit on the special side well; whereas MDiancie can generally handle physical hits (since Naive tends to be run).

MDiancie is fucking everywhere, and I'm like forced to fucking run Scarf Lando or MScizor (hes good but i dont wanna run him on every fucking team) because shes so annoying. MMeta was like the best thing to take on Diancie, and everything else is obviously less viable and has more flaws than MMeta. Sure, thats not my anti ban reason, but i stated plenty of reasons why i dont want it banned before.

There are much more options than that mind you. Some offensive answers are Starmie, Azumarill, Jirachi (whichever variant suits you), Celebi, Raikou etc. If you decide to branch outside to a more bulky team building then you can include Manaphy, MVenus, Slowbro/MBro, Hippowdon etc (incidentally MGarde bops all these would be answers).

Point being that there are certainly a lot of good picks from the A+ all the way to the B- rank of viability. She carries a lot of common weaknesses so unlike MGross or MSable she doesn't add very much to the table in terms of defensive synergy, primarily due to rock typing and poor base HP, so it shouldn't be hard to pack something that could threaten her secondary typing and prevent free switch ins. I attribute her rise in usage more to people catching on that Rock Polish is not the "best" set which was the belief for a considerable amount of time.

Also Scarf Lando is a poor match up to Protect Diancie, and is very easily exploitable, so if you are using this as your answer it is little wonder why you'd end up frustrated (which seems to be the case for many using Scarf-Lado T as their catch all revenge killer).

 

[Alfalfa]

You know, as a arachnophobic I agree with this first sentence. Spiders are spooky.

Sadly I just come here to nitpick a wee bit.

It is very bulky, but with bulk comes survivability. With no way to restore recovery, its survivability is basically cut in half. It really doesn't hit amazingly hard. Example:

252 Atk Mega Lopunny High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Rock: 374-444 (98.1 - 116.5%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Rock: 366-432 (96 - 113.3%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

Mega Lopunny without Adamant hits harder than MMeta. MLop is known to have "attacking problems" in the shape of it not being dominant due to not 2HKO'ing the meta.

MMeta also does not have something he wants: Boosting moves. But he couldnt use them due to him having coverage problems if he did so. I know you meant 110 speed so i wont worry about that.

Do you know what a check is? (wow that seemed a bit harsh on my part, my bad) Most of these checks avenge and either 2HKO or OHKO with Rocks.

Pokémon A checks Pokémon B if, when Pokémon A is given a free switch into Pokémon B, Pokémon A can win every time, even under the worst case scenario, without factoring in hax.

It does not have to worry about switching in.

252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Metagross: 257-304 (85.3 - 100.9%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Metagross in Sun: 576-678 (191.3 - 225.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Metagross: 404-476 (134.2 - 158.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

-1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 109-130 (28.5 - 34%) -- 99% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

4 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Metagross: 210-248 (69.7 - 82.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Seriously, 4 very common things that destroy it anally. People think like hes broken or something when all of his checks are very common. Sure, 43% chance to OHKO isnt reliable, but thats like saying he wont come in atleast once before. Seriously, most of his checks are more common then him. And dont pull that "theres 5 more pokemon to worry about" when you shouldnt centralize your team on a mega. The Lando T thing you put on topic was way too reliant on whats going on in the match, therefore thats a bit unreliable. If one loses their "check" they arent fucked. First off, sometimes MMeta doesnt even need its checks to lose. Getting Burned by Scald or Lava Plume on the switchin, geting TWaved (popular on many pokemon) etc. He isnt that hard to handle. Seriously, this is the same for every pokemon: If you lose Azu on your team thats semi weak to Keldeo, you're fucked. So just because of this makes MMeta broken? I'm sure as hell not surprised if MMeta sweeps after his common and effective checks/counters are taken out on a team.

Honestly, I still think MMeta doesnt have what it needs to be banned. He has a decent amount of flaws and a great amount of checks to be a force with weaknesses.

With MMeta banned, I dont see the meta being any better, and in my opinion it got worse. MDiancie is fucking everywhere, and I'm like forced to fucking run Scarf Lando or MScizor (hes good but i dont wanna run him on every fucking team) because shes so annoying. MMeta was like the best thing to take on Diancie, and everything else is obviously less viable and has more flaws than MMeta. Sure, thats not my anti ban reason, but i stated plenty of reasons why i dont want it banned before.

But, I honestly agree with some parts about this, but I just wanted to state my opinion. Still leaning against No ban.

Mega Metagross wants a consistent boosting move, but the fear of a boost from Meteor Mash already pressures its opponent well enough. Also, you state that it does not hit amazingly hard, but it hits hard enough to place enough pressure on the opponent, along with the threat of a Meteor Mash boost, that its opponent would have an issue with it. Also, you say that Mega Gross' checks are very common, but so were Aegislash's. Mega Gross is not as centralizing as Aegislash, but Aegislash's checks were also everywhere, and many of them were not complete garbage without Aegislash's presence. Many of Aegislash's checks, like Bisharp, Zapdos, Hippowdon, and Mandibuzz are still solid in OU, though some of them have declined in viability due to changes in the metagame. You could argue that unlike Mega Gross, Aegislash was a problem, but you cannot argue that Mega Gross is not a problem because its checks are everywhere, because Aegislash's checks were everywhere (and still are everywhere) and it was still a problem.

 

[QWILY]

fuck this meta w/o megagross. everybodys using fairy teams + a fire mon, its not like fairy was a bad type before but now its fucking broken. well yes megagross is strong but you can play around it and check it easily (ello slowking). now mega garde and mega diancie are everywhere you cant do anything. if megagross gets banned aegislash must come back, heatran isnt a long time check, ferro is shit atm, the only way you can beat fairys is with gimmick mons like bronzong etc which makes your team shitty

imo no ban the metagame is maybe not the best w/ gross but better than the w/o

 

[Geopolitics]

Just got reqs, but gonna keep this short and sweet. I feel that Metagross has few weak spots, possessing incredible bulk, offensive power, and a quality speed tier. This leads to overcentralization n such (which has already been well fleshed out in this thread). Even though metagross has counters, I feel like Metagross still centralizes the meta to an unhealthy degree, so I'll be voting ban when the voting process comes around.

 

[Stellar]

I started playing on suspect yesterday morning and I'm currently somewhere around #10 on the leaderboard after a little less than 50 battles. As someone who took a break from OU for a while and didn't get a chance to play with Mega Metagross extensively, I feel like this test is highly flawed and doesn't really tell me much. I'm not sure how I can be expected to vote on something as important as a ban when it's not even possible for me to either use or play against Mega Metagross (i.e., it's not possible for me to develop an informed opinion).

The only question this suspect test has prepared me to answer is "Is the suspect meta fun?" My answer: not really. Every other battle is Magnezone + Diancie and all the teams are relatively similar. I wish I could contribute more to the thread, but anything I say about Mega Meta would be theorymon...

 

[Cloud_Nine987]

Despite what I said earlier...I've been thinking. Will the removal of a mega, something that can't be slapped on any team like, say, Scizor can...actually break another type? I mean, it's one Pokemon. Scizor doesn't require a mega slot unless you're using Mega Scizor, and it's a fine check to most fairies. The removal of one would-be check that IS a mega...won't break an entire type. There will be still plenty of checks to the fairy-type. The aforementioned Scizor, Heatran (before you say Diancie, just run Scarf or Air Balloon), Bisharp (to an extent), Excadrill, Ferrothorn with Gyro Ball, Magnezone to an extent, Mega Aggron...that's just the steel-type. I also don't think Diancie deserves a suspect because I just don't think a mon with nonexistent defenses thanks to base 50 HP is worth a ban. Not to mention any, and I mean any super-effective coverage will take out most of, if not all of its HP (uninvested quagsire, which has base 65 sp. attack, 2hkos diancie. BASE 65).

But back to Metagross. I'm still in the middle because on one hand, it is super powerful, but on the other hand, it seems like whenever something gets suspected the community in general makes the suspect in question out to be the worst Pokemon ever - that it's overcentralizing, that it always costs them matches, that it's "unbeatable". What I'm saying is that people really exaggerate during suspect tests, and the whole "champion's moveset" thing we've seen above. I wish I could tell you what side I'm leaning towards, because I sure don't know.

 

[ABR]

Before the suspect testing began I wasn't quite sure if banning Metagrossite was the right move. It was hard to tell how much of an influence it really had on the metagame without trying a metagame that lacks it (suspect ladder). After getting reqs, however, I do believe that Metagross is unhealthy for the tier and should be banned.

When it comes to banning pokemon, I have a similar opinion to McMeghan and a few other users in that the overall healthiness of a metagame is more important than the individual brokenness of a pokemon. In the case of Metagross, I think it should be banned due to its unhealthy effect on the metagame, even if it is maybe not "broken" in a traditional sense.

It has been said quite a bit in this thread so I won't get too into it but Metagross certainly has a lot going for it. It has incredible 80/150/110 bulk, a great 110 speed tier, 145 atk + Tough Claws boost on every move, and fantastic coverage. All of these attributes make it quite easy to switch in, revenge kill, sweep, or wallbreak with Metagross. Alleged "checks and counters" such as Ferrothorn and Hippowdon are easily dismantled by common coverage moves. Other more "reliable" checks such as Mega Scizor are easily beaten with a Meteor Mash attack boost, and 20% is not too uncommon. In addition to all of this, Metagross can even easily switch in and Pursuit trap common pokemon such as the Lati twins.

Now I won't deny the fact that Metagross has plenty of "checks" such as Slowbro and Gliscor, but hardly anything is super reliable and having to run a few of these pokemon on every team is very unhealthy. On the suspect ladder I noticed a much greater deal of variety in teams, and it certainly was easier to build on my part.

TLDR: Even if Metagross isn't too broken for the tier and has some shaky checks, it should still be banned because it is not healthy for the metagame, and the metagame is way more enjoyable without it.

 

[Norne]

Megagross is narrowly broken, but what kind of precedent do we set by banning him? My theory is that if we ban Megagross the current status quo will be broken and the meta will roam with the OP M-Diance, M-Sableye, and M-Lopunny. People make the argument that we shouldn't be looking at these pokes because this is simply a discussion of M-Gross and we should ignore all others. This is an extremely close-minded view because while banning MGross may benefit the meta, we cannot ignore the impact it will have on teambuilding in the future. My theory is that if we ban MGross, M-Diance will be next, followed by M-Sable, and then a possible suspect of M-Lopunny. But is that really the kind of boring meta we want to play in? I enjoy the status quo between these powerhouses right now, but it's hard to argue that MGross doesn't deserve a ban. I'm still on the fence on how I'll be voting but I think this is food for thought.

What are peoples opinions on MGross vs. MMawile vs. Aegislash. Is Mgross the weakest link out of these three? Or MMawile or Aegi? Could bringing MMawile or Aegi back while banning MGross promote a healthier meta? I don't know the answer, it's just a question I'd like people to ponder.

Sorry for piggyback on this but don't bring status Quo or broken patch broken, nor other suspect tests that don't fulfill the same role, outside of the steel type their playstyles where different completely.

We should focus only on its qualities on the current metagame and the improvements the non Metagross ladder reflects,while dodger in slippery slope fallacies al together.

On topic, the ladder is such a fun ride, pro ban solely based on my experience.

 

[Merritt]

So for fun I used the damage calc to plan out theoretical scenarios for MegaGross. Feel free to interpret it as you will.

Skarm

Skarmory switches in and can take multiple moves safely. Metagross' best options are Hammer Arm, HP Fire, and Thunder Punch.

0 SpA Mega Metagross Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 122-144 (36.5 - 43.1%) -- 98.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Hammer Arm vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 90-106 (26.9 - 31.7%) -- 36.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 136-160 (40.7 - 47.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

If Skarmory runs Counter, it can beat the Hammer arm set easily. However, Mega Metagross has 301 HP with zero investment. Thunder Punch rolls 150 damage or less 10/16 times, and 3HKOs. Countering Counter Skarmory will only win 37.5% of the time in this scenario, therefore. If Metagross runs both Hammer Arm and Thunder Punch it will have a different chance to win, dependent on damage rolls of Hammer Arm and Thunder Punch.

Hidden Power Fire is not affected by Counter. Skarmory cannot win against HP Fire Metagross, but can force it out with Whirlwind, forcing hazard damage and the opponent to get MegaGross back in.

MegaScizor

Mega Scizor is often called the best counter to Mega Metagross. Metagross has the options of Hammer Arm and Hidden Power Fire as best options.

252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Hammer Arm vs. 248 HP / 0+ Def Mega Scizor: 107-127 (31.1 - 37%) -- 78.9% chance to 3HKO
0 SpA Mega Metagross Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 176 SpD Mega Scizor: 156-184 (45.4 - 53.6%) -- 34% chance to 2HKO

Mega Scizor can outheal Hammer Arm and boost up with Swords Dance until it can KO. Hidden Power Fire is possible to outheal, but requires stalling out PP, which is unfavorable to MScizor.

Ferrothorn

Ferrothorn is extremely bulky and punishes contact damage. Metagross' best choices are Hammer Arm and HP Fire.

252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Hammer Arm vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 212-250 (60.2 - 71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Mega Metagross Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 136-164 (38.6 - 46.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Hammer Arm wins against Ferrothorn, although Ferrothorn causes significant residual damage through Iron Barbs. Hidden Power Fire means Ferrothorn cannot switch in to counter, but as a switch in Leech Seed allows Ferrothorn to turn HP Fire into a 4HKO and ultimately results in more overall damage than Iron Barbs on Hammer Arm.

If Metagross lacks these moves, Ferrothorn counters comfortably.

252 Atk Mega Metagross Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 79-94 (22.4 - 26.7%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

Heatran

Heatran is offensively a good choice against Mega Metagross and resists its STABs. Metagross can use Hammer Arm or Earthquake.

Air Balloon Heatran:

252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Hammer Arm vs. 12 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 300-354 (92 - 108.5%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Heatran Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Metagross: 332-392 (110.2 - 130.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

AB Heatran is a 50/50 check.

Standard (specially defensive) Heatran:

252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Hammer Arm vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 300-354 (77.9 - 91.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Mega Metagross Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 452-532 (117.4 - 138.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 SpA Heatran Lava Plume vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Metagross: 200-236 (66.4 - 78.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Standard Heatran does not check.

Scarf Heatran:

252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Hammer Arm vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 300-354 (92.8 - 109.5%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Mega Metagross Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 452-532 (139.9 - 164.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Heatran Overheat vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Metagross: 428-506 (142.1 - 168.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Scarf Heatran can check effectively, but if a risky counter on Hammer Arm and is not a counter at all on EQ.

Bronzong

Bronzong is seemingly a good choice to beat Mega Metagross. Metagross can use HP Fire or Hammer Arm. Physically Defensive Bronzong is the best choice.

252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Hammer Arm vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Bronzong: 102-121 (30.1 - 35.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Bronzong Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Metagross: 92-110 (30.5 - 36.5%) -- 55.3% chance to 3HKO
0 SpA Mega Metagross Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Bronzong: 80-96 (23.6 - 28.4%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

Bronzong can check 55.3% of the time against Hammer Arm. HP Fire is rather ineffective.

Porygon2

Porygon2, the Great Wall of Greninja, returns to face its mortal foe, suspect test mons. Metagross can strike back with all its might, but its only truly effective move is Hammer Arm against this mighty duck.

252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Hammer Arm vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 162-192 (43.3 - 51.3%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO

Holy Buckets that is bulk. Porygon2 can outheal all but 8.2% of the time due to the speed drop and paralyze, or can cut to the chase and paralyze right away (though this is less optimal), leaving MegaGross crippled.

Just for fun, here's Meteor Mash.

252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 109-130 (29.1 - 34.7%) -- 10% chance to 3HKO

Tangrowth

Tangrowth does have a place in OU I swear. Metagross finds its insane physical bulk hard to break through. Metagross' best moves are HP Fire and Meteor Mash.

252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 132-156 (32.6 - 38.6%) -- 2.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Mega Metagross Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Tangrowth: 156-184 (38.6 - 45.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Tangrowth Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Metagross: 102-122 (33.8 - 40.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Tangrowth acts as an adequate check to non-HP Fire Metagross, though unfortunately not HP Fire. Still better than you expected probably

Zygarde/Garchomp

Yes, Zygarde and Garchomp. They act somewhat similarly defensively, but not in their response back. Metagross' best choices are Ice Punch or Meteor Mash.

Parashuffler Zygarde:
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Ice Punch vs. 200 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde: 300-356 (73.7 - 87.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 200 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde: 135-159 (33.1 - 39%) -- 7.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Zygarde can paralyze back, meaning it is a good crippling check. If Metagross lacks Ice Punch, Zygarde wins most of the time/counters.
0 Atk Zygarde Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Metagross: 152-182 (50.4 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

ChestoRest Dragon Dance Zygarde:
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Ice Punch vs. 120 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 404-476 (104.3 - 122.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 120 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 181-214 (46.7 - 55.2%) -- 71.1% chance to 2HKO
+1 252+ Atk Zygarde Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Metagross: 318-374 (105.6 - 124.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Zygarde wins against non-Ice Punch variants as a check and is in a decent position afterwards.

All Garchomp are OHKOed by Ice Punch.
Scarf Garchomp:
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 222-262 (62.1 - 73.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Metagross: 230-272 (76.4 - 90.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Scarf Garchomp checks.

Tank Garchomp:
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Garchomp: 159-187 (37.8 - 44.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Metagross: 192-228 (63.7 - 75.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Accounting for Rough Skin, Tank Garchomp will bring down non-Ice Punch Metagross even if it switches in. It also checks.

Suicune

Suicune, the legendary CroCune. Metagross has the options of Thunder Punch or Grass Knot.

0 SpA Tough Claws Mega Metagross Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 178-210 (44 - 51.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Tough Claws Mega Metagross Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 118-140 (29.2 - 34.6%) -- 99.9% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Tough Claws Mega Metagross Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. +2 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 90-106 (22.2 - 26.2%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 156-184 (38.6 - 45.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Suicune checks/counters. Metagross uses Grass Knot, Suicune calm minds. Grass Knot again will fail to KO, and Suicune can either Rest or Calm Mind (as a third will not always KO at +2) before resting. Thunder Punch has to deal with possible scald burns, as Suicune can outrest the damage.

Countering relies on Sleep Talk, which is less ideal, but Suicune will eventually win.

Volcarona

Volcarona obviously brings Quiver Dance to the table, which lets it outspeed after a since boosting turn. It also has Flame Body, which makes contact dangerous. Zen Headbutt is the best move.

252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Volcarona: 202-238 (54.1 - 63.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 0 SpA Volcarona Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Metagross: 422-500 (140.1 - 166.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 96 HP / 0 Def Volcarona: 267-315 (79.7 - 94%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ SpA Volcarona Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Metagross: 560-660 (186 - 219.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Volcarona checks handily.

Note that none of these calculations include rocks on either side, and I am aware of that, so thank you for offering that information in advance. I also did not use a - nature of Metagross for the sake of calculations. Yes, I am aware thunder punch is terrible as a choice. Interpret these as you wish, and no, this isn't everything.

 

[Froggyboy]

I don't get how Thunder Punch is terrible as a choice, it gives you the ability to hit both Skarmory and specially defensive Slowbro in one moveslot, something you can't do with any other move, as well as allow you to run a different coverage move or priority.