Research Week ORAS Edition [Week 10] - Won by Specs Cranidos

[Kink]

shout-out to my Mazz for being the OG-OP

Hello, Underused!

Professor Kink here to present to you Week 10 of the ORAS edition of Research Week!​

Keep the following things in mind during every Research Week:

• Be open-minded, don't just say something is terrible and walk away; look at its stats and typing and think something up!
• Feel free to theorymon early in the research period, but make it clear you're doing so. Later in the period though, you will be expected to back up your posts with hard evidence like logs, actual sets, perhaps even teams.
• Just because an analysis has been done for a Pokemon doesn't mean there isn't more to explore; it's very likely that something has gone unnoticed.
• Do not post in this thread complaining about the Pokemon or movesets I choose and / or suggesting ones we should do for future weeks. Feel free to VM / PM me these suggestions, but don't expect me to always listen to you.

A few things to clarify:

• Sign-ups can be as late as you want, but the week will end on Sunday.
• Early period means the first three days of the Research Week, so let's keep the theorymoning to a minimum after this period. The late period refers to the last four days of the research week, where raw evidence and discussion should become the basis of the thread.
• The prizes for Research Week have been decided; winning a Research Week will grant you half-ops on our IRC channel, #xyuu. You'll also get put in the UU Hall of Fame. Don't forget, participation in projects like Research Week help towards earning the Community Contributor badge!
• I'm implementing a mandatory discussion in order to be considered as a winner of Research Week. If you do not post one somewhat-coherent post that describes the Pokemon that you're using, their roles, and their niche in the metagame, you will be disqualified from winning this week. Please post about your experiences no matter if you think you've got a chance to win or not.
• Finally, I'd like to implore you to all please remember to post and save your replays. Often, these replays are the most informative sources of information about RW Pokemon - you can write a full two paragraphs about the role of a Pokemon, but often that can all be summed up with a video and an explanation of it. How useful are these Pokemon in XYUU? What gives them trouble? What advantages do they have over other Pokemon? How well do they work in the metagame? If you have anything to say about any of these Pokemon, please post about them! Remember, discussion is not limited to this topic, you are encouraged to talk about these Pokemon in #xyuu and the Viability Ranking Thread as well.

This Week's ORAS Selection
​

Mega Banette Free Set

Mega Banette
Ability:
Evs:
Nature
-
-
-
-

Cofagrigus Free Set

Cofagrigus
Ability:
Evs:
Nature
-
-
-
-

Jellicent Free Set

Jellicent
Ability:
Evs:
Nature
-
-
-
-

In order to participate you must do the following:

• Post here with a fresh alt and the name(s) of the Pokemon you will be using.
• Use at least one of the Pokemon being researched.
• Post your experiences with the Pokemon you're using, participate in the discussion!
• Post logs of this Pokemon in action against other teams - don't just tell us, show us
• The winner of the challenge will be the person who has the highest peak ladder ranking on the Pokemon Showdown UU ladder on the alt they registered.
• PLEASE post your updated rank with your updated analysis, otherwise you will not win.

 

[Donphantastic]

In
ALT: SpookyScareDoll
Mon: Banette

 

[slated]

in with jellicent, alt: Jellicent for Uber

 

[Munkin]

Cofagrigus is so cool
Alt: Munkie

 

[Thanks Brock Obama]

In with Cofag

Alt: TBO Alts are dumb

 

[r0ady]

In with bannette (promise to actually post analysis this time) apt:spooky r0ady

 

[Peef Rimgar]

Since I'm gonna be snowed (rather iced, i suppose) in all week, might as well do this. In with Banette, alt: sp00kyscarybanette

 

[Lucipurrr]

I'll be taken Jellicent and Cofag.
Alt: Thel' Vadum

Good luck and have fun everyone!

 

[thyme_time]

pokemon: mega banette
alt: helloworld.exe

 

[Pak]

Pokemon: Jellicent
Alt: Specs Omanyte

Jellicent @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover
- Taunt

I decided to use Jellicent as a physical wall. It proved to be a good check to some of the main physical threats in UU like Entei, Mega Aerodactyl, Mienshao, Machamp (No Guard Assault Vest), Infernape, Mega Beedrill, etc. Jellicent can take any hit from these pokemon and proceed to burn them with Will-O-Wisp or hit them with SE Scald. While Mienshao and Machamp have access to Knock Off that does about 50% on the first hit, the loss of the item and the burn significantly reduce the power. After the threats are neutralized with a burn, recover can be used to restore the health lost in the process of burning them. I did not find too much of a use for taunt but it is most likely because I fully invested in bulk and did not speed creep anything besides other base 60s. Toxic most likely would have been better for this EV spread. It is also worth noting that Jellicent completely walls Crolax and Crocune but cannot do much back to either besides taunt.

252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Sacred Fire vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Jellicent: 111-131 (27.5 - 32.5%) -- 66.9% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Mega Aerodactyl Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Jellicent: 153-180 (37.9 - 44.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk burned Mega Aerodactyl Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Jellicent: 76-90 (18.8 - 22.3%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Mienshao Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Jellicent: 186-220 (46.1 - 54.5%) -- 6.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk burned Mienshao Knock Off vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Jellicent: 62-74 (15.3 - 18.3%) -- possible 6HKO
252+ Atk Machamp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Jellicent: 210-248 (52.1 - 61.5%) -- 96.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk burned Machamp Knock Off vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Jellicent: 71-84 (17.6 - 20.8%) -- possible 5HKO

Team: http://pastebin.com/DzUq3zis
Jellicent's role on the team is primarily to switch into the threats mentioned above and potentially burn them or deal heavy damage to them. Jellicent can even be a useful spin blocker. No spinners in UU can really hurt Jellicent besides Mega Blastoise even if they carry Knock Off. I feel there is no UU pokemon that can replace Jellicent in the fact that it can spin block and act as a physical wall. Jellicent is kind of the glue of this team.

 

[Lucipurrr]

Here's the team I have so far.

Hide

Cofagrigus @ Leftovers
Ability: Mummy
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Haze
- Pain Split
- Toxic

Jellicent @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
- Giga Drain
- Scald
- Taunt
- Ice Beam

Banette-Mega @ Banettite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shadow Sneak
- Shadow Claw
- Foul Play
- Knock Off

Salamence @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Roost
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast

Gligar @ Eviolite
Ability: Hyper Cutter
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Roost
- Defog
- Stealth Rock
- U-turn

Lucario @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Close Combat
- Crunch
- Swords Dance

Now, I decided to test out Banette to see if I want to invest more time with him this week. After looking more into him, I'm somewhat interested in his deadly knock off potential and access to two priority moves. I'll show so damage calcs below.

Vs Doublade

Hide

52+ Atk Mega Banette Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade on a critical hit: 198-234 (62 - 73.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Vs Azelf

Hide

252+ Atk Mega Banette Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Azelf: 306-362 (104.7 - 123.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Vs Chandy Scarf

Hide

252+ Atk Mega Banette Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Chandelure: 250-296 (95.7 - 113.4%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Mega Banette Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Chandelure: 188-224 (72 - 85.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Mega Banette Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Chandelure on a critical hit: 454-536 (173.9 - 205.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Mega Banette Shadow Claw vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Chandelure: 330-390 (126.4 - 149.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Chandelure Shadow Ball vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Mega Banette: 332-392 (106.4 - 125.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Vs Bronzong

Hide

252+ Atk Mega Banette Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Bronzong on a critical hit: 368-434 (108.8 - 128.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Vs Claydol

Hide

252+ Atk Mega Banette Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Claydol on a critical hit: 292-344 (90.1 - 106.1%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

VS Salamence

Hide

252+ Atk Mega Banette Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Salamence on a critical hit: 250-295 (75.5 - 89.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Salamence Dragon Claw vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Mega Banette: 187-222 (59.9 - 71.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Salamence Outrage vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Mega Banette: 280-331 (89.7 - 106%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

Vs Suicune

Hide

252+ Atk Mega Banette Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune on a critical hit: 137-162 (33.9 - 40%) -- 35.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

So, As we can see. Mega Banette has some solid aggressive potential in the UU meta game at 252 Speed/252Atk. Putting it at at Deadly 471 Atk and solid 249 speed With two priority moves.

 

[Serperior for Uber]

going with mega bannetee cause i will make it a beast
Goddammit mega-bannete is horrible. Not enough bulk for support role and it 3hkos most walls even with atk investment.

Changing to Cofagrius

Alt: The Servine Sweep


rage quitting i am out mons are horrible

 

[Mahmudkipz]

Here's the team I have so far.

Hide

Cofagrigus @ Leftovers
Ability: Mummy
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Haze
- Pain Split
- Toxic

Jellicent @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
- Giga Drain
- Scald
- Taunt
- Ice Beam

Banette-Mega @ Banettite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shadow Sneak
- Shadow Claw
- Foul Play
- Knock Off

Salamence @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Roost
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast

Gligar @ Eviolite
Ability: Hyper Cutter
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Roost
- Defog
- Stealth Rock
- U-turn

Lucario @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Close Combat
- Crunch
- Swords Dance

Now, I decided to test out Banette to see if I want to invest more time with him this week. After looking more into him, I'm somewhat interested in his deadly knock off potential and access to two priority moves. I'll show so damage calcs below.

Vs Doublade

Hide

52+ Atk Mega Banette Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade on a critical hit: 198-234 (62 - 73.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Vs Azelf

Hide

252+ Atk Mega Banette Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Azelf: 306-362 (104.7 - 123.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Vs Chandy Scarf

Hide

252+ Atk Mega Banette Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Chandelure: 250-296 (95.7 - 113.4%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Mega Banette Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Chandelure: 188-224 (72 - 85.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Mega Banette Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Chandelure on a critical hit: 454-536 (173.9 - 205.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Mega Banette Shadow Claw vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Chandelure: 330-390 (126.4 - 149.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Chandelure Shadow Ball vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Mega Banette: 332-392 (106.4 - 125.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Vs Bronzong

Hide

252+ Atk Mega Banette Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Bronzong on a critical hit: 368-434 (108.8 - 128.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Vs Claydol

Hide

252+ Atk Mega Banette Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Claydol on a critical hit: 292-344 (90.1 - 106.1%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

VS Salamence

Hide

252+ Atk Mega Banette Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Salamence on a critical hit: 250-295 (75.5 - 89.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Salamence Dragon Claw vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Mega Banette: 187-222 (59.9 - 71.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Salamence Outrage vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Mega Banette: 280-331 (89.7 - 106%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

Vs Suicune

Hide

252+ Atk Mega Banette Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune on a critical hit: 137-162 (33.9 - 40%) -- 35.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

So, As we can see. Mega Banette has some solid aggressive potential in the UU meta game at 252 Speed/252Atk. Putting it at at Deadly 471 Atk and solid 249 speed With two priority moves.

Why are some of these calcs with critical hit involved ?_?
And how is Claydol even remotely relevant in UU ?_?

The calc against Azelf is redundant anyway, that thing dies to a light breeze and often carries a sash.

Also, as your calcs reflect, even with crits this thing fails to get certain kills with Knock Off due to no damage boost without items. I highly doubt an offensive set is viable as Ghost/Dark coverage is highly redundant and completely walled by Dark types, so you are only using Dark moves on Banette for the extra utility it provides. It is better off taking up a supportive role with a movepool that consists of Prankster Taunt/T-wave/Wisp/Destiny Bond; take the 165 atk as a bonus, not the focus.

 

[puregenius]

User: jellicunt
Using jellicent

 

[Lucipurrr]

Why are some of these calcs with critical hit involved ?_?
And how is Claydol even remotely relevant in UU ?_?

The calc against Azelf is redundant anyway, that thing dies to a light breeze and often carries a sash.

Also, as your calcs reflect, even with crits this thing fails to get certain kills with Knock Off due to no damage boost without items. I highly doubt an offensive set is viable as Ghost/Dark coverage is highly redundant and completely walled by Dark types, so you are only using Dark moves on Banette for the extra utility it provides. It is better off taking up a supportive role with a movepool that consists of Prankster Taunt/T-wave/Wisp/Destiny Bond; take the 165 atk as a bonus, not the focus.

Like I said, Those calcs were to demonstrate it's damage potentially as an aggressive cleaner. It has the potential to come in with priority spam and finish off weaker pokes IF it's needed to. I'm not really going to be using him for RW, it's just something I noticed when looking over the three pokes. While it may be better off taking a supportive role like you said, We can't ignore the fact that it has Very good Atk and access to two priority moves. If someone felt they needed a ShadowSneak/Sucker Punch/Taunt/Destiny Bond MegaNette, then there's no reason it wouldn't see them decent use at some points. Mega Banette is very situational in my opinion. While I love the idea of him being an aggressive priority threat, he's not and probably isn't ever going to be. The whole point of Research week is to take these pokemon and dissect them, not just ladder with their common sets and hope you win. This is a learning experience, so why not take the risk and do something new or unheard of and see where it goes. Also, as for Claydol. Believe it or not I've come across people using him in place of Bronzong lately, Don't ask me why, but they're using it.

 

[Narcotics]

Alt : Banette Addiction
Mons : Banette

 

[Euphonos]

In using two different alts pertaining to two different teams with the chosen Research Pokemon each.

Jellicent under Radioactive Sago.
Cofagrigus under TMANSMFKPR.

 

[Hogg]

Sure, I've been meaning to try out a Mega-Banette set for a little while now. In with Mega-Banette under the alt Prof Hogg.

 

[Skankovich]

Also in with Mega Slaynette, alt is ayo banette.

 

[puregenius]

1500 weigh in time yay

Jellicent

Jellicent @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 124 Def / 132 Spe
Timid Nature
- Taunt
- Will-O-Wisp
- Scald
- Recover

There are so many good bulky waters in the tier it's kinda unreal: Suicune, Swampert, Slowking, Blastoise, Tentacruel, Vaporeon, Empoleon and Alo. Jelli's most defining features are Taunt and a Ghost typing. Taunt essentially lets Jelli be a bulky Water that counters other bulky Waters (except Mega Toise), and with hazards on board he can just go to town forcing them out to rack up damage. Taunt in conjuction with his Ghost typing make it super hard to get hazards off him. The Dark weakness is a bit worrying, but he tanks Knock Offs way better than you would expect, so it's very hard to force Jelli out without a Grass or Electric type. Finally, the giant (speedy) elephant in the room: 132 speed EVs with a Timid nature. I've found the speed to be a lot more useful than the extra bulk. This spread lets Jelli outpace uninvested 85s and below (I creep a bit more), allowing Jelli to stifle a whole horde of support Pokemon.

Here's a replay: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-212082010
It shows the amazing utility that Taunt brings, I play a bit poorly at the end though.

The Team: http://pastebin.com/BWDNTa6k

 

[Christo]

In
Christo RW 10
Jellicent

 

[Skankovich]

I really struggled to make a decent team with banette at first and it was really shaky, but once it got the right type of team it put in surprising amounts of work. This is the set I was using:

Banette-Mega @ Banettite
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 32 HP / 252 Atk / 224 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Shadow Sneak
- Double-Edge
- Pain Split

Banette is my favourite mega so I had a lot of experience with it from XY UU, and I'd always found its best set was subsplit, because it offers longevity and the priority sub stops people trying to play around you, for example a scarfed dreigon has to click dark pulse otherwise it just gets subbed on- this is important when it comes to the team I used with it. I normally used gunk shot instead of double edge but I decided to switch it up and it worked better, since being completely helpless in the face of krook is pretty awful.

Ghost is a really great typing in UU with fighting spam, giving banette a few switchin opportunities which lets it get a sub up, deal damage, painsplit back the subs/recoil and get back out. Honestly though, the absolute best thing about banette in my experience is the strong shadow sneak. We all know how powerful sucker punch can be in the tier, so reliable ghost priority that hits neutrally against all the fighting types is really a godsend. It gives you way more opportunities to mega evolve, which is an issue because you don't have prankster first turn, when you can pick off weakened mons and 1hko the likes of chandelure, zam and azelf after rocks (except for sash zam ofc).
I also tried out a sub/shadow sneak/gunk shot/thunder wave set a little that put in ridiculous work against offense but was worse overall.


Here's the team

Team and stuff about teambuilding

Banette-Mega @ Banettite
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 32 HP / 252 Atk / 224 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Shadow Sneak
- Double-Edge
- Pain Split

Slurpuff @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Belly Drum
- Play Rough
- Drain Punch
- Return

Shaymin @ Life Orb
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Seed Flare
- Psychic
- Leech Seed
- Rest

Rhyperior @ Leftovers
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 240 HP / 16 Atk / 252 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Rock Blast
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Protect

Empoleon @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
- Defog
- Ice Beam
- Hydro Pump
- Flash Cannon

Mienshao @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Reckless
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Stone Edge

I started with banette, of course, and since I knew how it basically forces the opponent to straight up attack it, often using dark moves and often choiced, I chose to pair it with Slurpuff who could take advantage of mons locked into dark moves and get a belly drum off. These struggled with really bulky physical walls like Suicune and Hippo, so I rounded the core off with Shaymin.
Rhyperior and Empoleon were there to deal with speedy burds who the rest of the team struggled with and provide hazard control. l went for an offensive emp set because I honestly just enjoyed the extra offensive presence, and it also really dented the forretress that tried to volt switch out of emp, who were a big issue for slurpuff (kinda wish i swapped some move for something that deals with bulky waters though). I tried scald but hydro worked better overall, and its dangerous to spam scald in a hera meta.
Shao is the mandatory scarfer, works well at picking off speedy mons combined with the coverage of banette's shadow sneak.

Replays

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-213014507 - Banette facilitates a slurpuff sweep.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-213020942 - vs libluc, Banette puts in a huge amount of work after krook is removed early on in the match, switching safely into hera's predicted close combats, denting tentacruel significantly with double-edge, healing off recoil and wearing down aero with pain split so it could later kill it with shadow sneak and weakening cresselia significantly.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-213017769 - Again just wears down walls to allow mien to sweep this time around. Also mindgames with Hydreigon lets it live longer than it really should have.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-213010833 - idek i was saving any replay at all at this point lol

Currently sitting at 1521, here's proof EDIT: Actually 1528 lol that battle was worth it

Hide

So overall yeah, banette is a really versatile and honestly underrated mon. I think where people struggle with it is that they focus on its access to priority will-o and destiny bond, which it's actually kind of mediocre at abusing.

 

[Kink]

Specs Cranidos wins this one!