Inheritance [Prime Council Elected]

[Snaquaza]

I've decided to unban Aegislash, Blaziken, Deoxys Defense, Genesect, Greninja and Lucario Mega
Darkrai, Deoxys Speed, Mawile Mega and Shaymin Sky are probably still too much for the metagame. Darkrai and Shaymin have insanely high Speed and Special Attack stats. Deoxys Speed basically outspeeds everything, so is great at supporting and revening. Mega Mawile is still just as strong.

Discuss!

 

[Mr155551]

I'm still confused as to why did you unban genesect greninja lucario mega and blaziken

 

[Snaquaza]

I'm still confused as to why did you unban genesect greninja lucario mega and blaziken

Genesect: Probably the most threatening of these. It has a speed tier that lets it be revenged easily. It's outclassed in Protean sets by various Pokemon and in general a lot of Pokemon can run good Download sets now. It might be banned if it's OP, but I dont' expect it to be.
Greninja: What does this even do now everything can run Protean.
Lucario Mega: A lot of things can run Adapt now, so not nearly as strong
Blaziken: Same as above.

 

[xJownage]

Anyways, I very much agree with a chansey ban. It is almost impossible to break between wisp and its special bulk, and other sets besides prankster destroy things that normally try to kill it. It has already been explained pretty well.

Those ubers aren't even threats to me. Except godforsaken aegislash, which is probably still broken with reliable recovery.

 

[motherlove]

Genesect: Probably the most threatening of these. It has a speed tier that lets it be revenged easily. It's outclassed in Protean sets by various Pokemon and in general a lot of Pokemon can run good Download sets now. It might be banned if it's OP, but I dont' expect it to be.
Greninja: What does this even do now everything can run Protean.
Lucario Mega: A lot of things can run Adapt now, so not nearly as strong
Blaziken: Same as above.

Lucario mega still looks like it could be very strong, with its speed and very good mixed offense, idk maybe running arcanine orgenesect beforethe mega. Looks interesting.

 

[tegrof19]

Basically, anything that was in large part booted to ubers for its ability and movepool were unbanned, as anything could inherit from them and have the same.

Greninja is still really fast, but there's a lot of priority running around. I'm iffy about mluke, as now it can have an ability before mega, and a good speed tier as well as resistance to some priority. It's still frail though.

 

[I like donkeys]

Greninja: What does this even do now everything can run Protean.

Correct me if Im wrong, but Greninja is currently the best abuser of the old Primordeal Sea set that Keldeo used to run, thanks to its good special attack and it's fantastic speed tier. Greninja can also abuse mega launcher set to have access to a powerful dark pulse and an incredibly fast rapid spin.
Its no Keldeo, but it's certainly better than friggin Starmie lol

EDIT:
So that this isnt a double post, ill say it here. What are your thoughts on Feraligatr as a donor now that it gets sheer force? It may seem outclassed but does have setup moves such as dragon dance and swords dance, and has a fairly reasonable movepool including things such as ice beam, focus blast, ice punch, waterfall and scald, and some others i cant think of right now :3

 

[DarkeKnight]

The problem is inheriting from Sableye. Other Chansey sets can be handled more easily. Ban inheriting from Sableye, not Chansey itself. Banning Chansey just means a bunch of other Pokemon like Snorlax, Blissey and some others use the same set.

 

[Snaquaza]

Correct me if Im wrong, but Greninja is currently the best abuser of the old Primordeal Sea set that Keldeo used to run, thanks to its good special attack and it's fantastic speed tier. Greninja can also abuse mega launcher set to have access to a powerful dark pulse and an incredibly fast rapid spin.
Its no Keldeo, but it's certainly better than friggin Starmie lol

EDIT:
So that this isnt a double post, ill say it here. What are your thoughts on Feraligatr as a donor now that it gets sheer force? It may seem outclassed but does have setup moves such as dragon dance and swords dance, and has a fairly reasonable movepool including things such as ice beam, focus blast, ice punch, waterfall and scald, and some others i cant think of right now :3

It might be good, but having a substitute for Keldeo isn't bad per se. Also Starmie kinda did that already. This might be a little faster and stronger than Starmie, but nothing special. Do notice that Keldeo's Special Attack is 129 and Greninja's 103.

But yeah, you're right that it's viable, I just exaggerated its flaws.

 

[Froggyboy]

Here is a set I have had a bit of fun with.

Floatzel @ Life Orb
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Crabhammer
- Aqua Jet
- Knock Off
- Swords Dance

So I wanted a fast Water type to hit hard, and be able to set-up to sweep late game. Floatzel had the stats I wanted, and Crawdaunt had the moveset and ability I wanted, so bam! Floatzel hits a blistering 361 speed, outspeeding a ton of things, has a good 100 base attack, along with Crawdaunt's Adaptability and Swords Dance, increasing it even more. Crabhammer is the highest base power STAB move Crawdaunt gets, hitting super hard, Aqua Jet for priority, Knock Off is to hit the Lati@s, Celebi, and some other things, and Swords Dance is to help sweep late game.

And yeah, inheriting from Sableye is the problem, as Chansey isn't the only thing that benefits from it, most walls love Sableye's ability and moveset.

 

[yoman5]

I've decided to unban Aegislash, Blaziken, Deoxys Defense, Genesect, Greninja and Lucario Mega
Darkrai, Deoxys Speed, Mawile Mega and Shaymin Sky are probably still too much for the metagame. Darkrai and Shaymin have insanely high Speed and Special Attack stats. Deoxys Speed basically outspeeds everything, so is great at supporting and revening. Mega Mawile is still just as strong.

Discuss!

Genesect: Probably the most threatening of these. It has a speed tier that lets it be revenged easily. It's outclassed in Protean sets by various Pokemon and in general a lot of Pokemon can run good Download sets now. It might be banned if it's OP, but I dont' expect it to be.
Greninja: What does this even do now everything can run Protean.
Lucario Mega: A lot of things can run Adapt now, so not nearly as strong
Blaziken: Same as above.

So my 2 cents here are ban blazikenite and greninja/megaluc are dangerous unbans. Megaluc boasts 145/140/112 offenses, which is just obscene. Physically and specially it's already a threat that's not even outclassed by much, and with mixed sets it's probably one of the more dangerous mons in the tier. It requires entirely different mons for each set and some of the things it can inherit are downright dangerous (adaptability sacred sword/secret sword, adapt doom desire(jirachi also gifts drain punch)). Blaziken the obvious set is inherit rayquaza/victini for v-create, as after mega evolution you get to stay at +1 speed basically forever, and spamming 180 bp moves off that 160 attack is just too strong, especially with the best primesea abuser banned and bolt strike coverage from victini. Greninja is just probably the least threatening of these unbans, but it does sit at a speed tier above all the common proteans and boasts dark type as base form. Parting shot sets, protean sets, offensive hazard sets, and crawdaunt sets are just some of the things coming to mind atm. Probably just a healthy influence on the meta as a weaker faster mon, but still a tad dangerous (potentially unhealthy, not necessarily broken) with some sets.

TLDR: ban blazikenite and megaluc. Mevoing from whatever movepool they want into 160 attack or 145/140/112 with speed boost/adaptability respectively just sounds too strong.

 

[Chopin Alkaninoff]

I don't think blazikenite or mega luc should be banned. Speed boost isn't that great considering you face Extremespeed Pinsir and Gale Wings Lando T almost everytime, meaning it can be easily revenged. If you worry about power, there is mega medicham that gets huge power from whatever move it gets after megaevo.

 

[Esprite]

Oh gawd, Medicham inheriting from Rayquaza... Well, on the bright side, it will almost definetly OHKO a Chansey version.

 

[yoman5]

Oh gawd, Medicham inheriting from Rayquaza... Well, on the bright side, it will almost definetly OHKO a Chansey version.

And get willowisped in the process.

252+ Atk Pure Power burned Mega Medicham Brick Break vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 297-351 (46.2 - 54.6%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO.

That's entirely not worth it. In fact:

252+ Atk Pure Power burned Mega Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 514-606 (80 - 94.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO.

Which means chansey can just switch out, and prankster recover on something else that won't kill it.

 

[Lcass4919]

I've decided to unban Aegislash, Blaziken, Deoxys Defense, Genesect, Greninja and Lucario Mega
Darkrai, Deoxys Speed, Mawile Mega and Shaymin Sky are probably still too much for the metagame. Darkrai and Shaymin have insanely high Speed and Special Attack stats. Deoxys Speed basically outspeeds everything, so is great at supporting and revening. Mega Mawile is still just as strong.

Discuss!

well, time to use protean darkrai/regular darkrai kek.

"Genesect:It's outclassed in Protean sets by various Pokemon"
i beg to differ. protean genesect is good mainly because 120/120 offenses makes it the BEST mixed protean user out there. and with a decent 99 speed to boot. but yeah, its speed is still quite a letdown.

 

[Dark Mage Ewan]

"Genesect:It's outclassed in Protean sets by various Pokemon"
i beg to differ. protean genesect is good mainly because 120/120 offenses makes it the BEST mixed protean user out there. and with a decent 99 speed to boot. but yeah, its speed is still quite a letdown.

Azelf actually has better (Sp.)Atk and speed so not really

 

[Throbulator36]

well, time to use protean darkrai/regular darkrai kek.

"Genesect:It's outclassed in Protean sets by various Pokemon"
i beg to differ. protean genesect is good mainly because 120/120 offenses makes it the BEST mixed protean user out there. and with a decent 99 speed to boot. but yeah, its speed is still quite a letdown.

Darkrai is still ban.
Also I see this as being the most common lucario set unless chansey gets ban

Keldeo(Lucario) @ Lucarionite
Justified
-Substitute
-Calm Mind
-Secret Sword
-Scald/HP Steel

 

[motherlove]

So I've been testing a bit and lucario has been really really weak compared to what i thiught it would be. I think it's alright to leave it unbanned.

EDIT, quite pleased with mega blaziken for know, speed boost + vcreate is like an overpowered close combat. And you can either run sd + Espeed (wich is probably best imo) or bolt strike for ff skarm.

 

[Lcass4919]

Darkrai is still ban.

oh derp misread it.

Azelf actually has better (Sp.)Atk and speed so not really

azelf is a better sweeper, but if it cant ohko a wall, its going to die, genesect at least has an extra hit or two in there and can recover off some damage with drain punch if needed. however, i did forget about azelf when i posted that. lol

 

[Esprite]

And get willowisped in the process.

252+ Atk Pure Power burned Mega Medicham Brick Break vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 297-351 (46.2 - 54.6%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO.

That's entirely not worth it. In fact:

252+ Atk Pure Power burned Mega Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 514-606 (80 - 94.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO.

Which means chansey can just switch out, and prankster recover on something else that won't kill it.

Inherited from mew. Not Sableye. I was talking about a transformed Chansey... Which would actually be worse...

 

[Tarontos]

there are ways to builds that can break these, primariy physical fire/guts can break it. Secret sword is also quite effective, not many users for that though
A burned guts conkeldur can 2HKO easily with drain punch, infernape can kill it with close combat as well(or contary close combat if that's your thing). It is far from invincible but giving everything ideal abilities tend to boost defense more than offense, do to the existence of prankster with sableye's move pool, on specialy deffensive things. Gut's is a really good ability to beat Chansey,magic bounce stops it cold and it's not like these things have bad move pool's either,
you have absol with sucker punch,boosting, and a ton of coverage(including fighting),
Sabeley has more variety in boosting, two types of priority one of which is sucker punch ridiculous coverage options, and pain split, recover, and status
Even xatu has sucker punch, along side drill peck for those who want to give it too a bird, and u-turn to punish switches. it has wish for support as well or roost for more instant recovery
funny how most magic bouncers have sucker punch?

these arn't eve niche options either gut's is basicly a band in return for passive damage, magic bounce is amazing, and physical fire types aren't exactly unheard of either(combine that with contrary super power's running around and their are plenty of things that can break it.


why would you ever use chansey(for transform) when Blissey is an option for transform?

 

[Throbulator36]

there are ways to builds that can break these, primariy physical fire/guts can break it. Secret sword is also quite effective, not many users for that though
A burned guts conkeldur can 2HKO easily with drain punch, infernape can kill it with close combat as well(or contary close combat if that's your thing). It is far from invincible but giving everything ideal abilities tend to boost defense more than offense, do to the existence of prankster with sableye's move pool, on specialy deffensive things. Gut's is a really good ability to beat Chansey,magic bounce stops it cold and it's not like these things have bad move pool's either,
you have absol with sucker punch,boosting, and a ton of coverage(including fighting),
Sabeley has more variety in boosting, two types of priority one of which is sucker punch ridiculous coverage options, and pain split, recover, and status
Even xatu has sucker punch, along side drill peck for those who want to give it too a bird, and u-turn to punish switches. it has wish for support as well or roost for more instant recovery
funny how most magic bouncers have sucker punch?

these arn't eve niche options either gut's is basicly a band in return for passive damage, magic bounce is amazing, and physical fire types aren't exactly unheard of either(combine that with contrary super power's running around and their are plenty of things that can break it.


why would you ever use chansey(for transform) when Blissey is an option for transform?

eviolite. The point is that SubCM fighting types that inherit from keld are pretty much the only hard counters for all BlobLax sets. ofc snorlax won't get used unless the blobs get ban and will die to most psyshocks without curse.
The only fighting mons that should ever inherit from keld for a SubCM set are luc, blaze, and arguably infernape and emboar. but The other three are immune to WoW anyway and thus shouldn't run special sets just to beat transform BlobLax.

 

[TheAmazingFlavio]

why would you ever use chansey(for transform) when Blissey is an option for transform?

Eviolite will still increase your defenses iirc.

 

[Anna says hi]

The viability rankings need to be fixed imo.
Chansey A -> S
Doublade [Arcanine, Flareon, Latias] Unlisted -> A / A+
Ferrothorn [Arcanine] Unlisted -> B / B+
Raikou [Nidoking, Genesect, Kecleon] Unlisted -> B+
Add Masquerain to donors for Suicune
Jolteon C -> Unlisted
Gyarados B+ -> A-
Add Azumarill to list of donors for Gyarados (Gives Belly Drum, Aqua Jet, Knock Off, Waterfall)
Keldeo S -> Unlisted

There should be more, but I can't think of any ATM.

 

[yoman5]

there are ways to builds that can break these, primariy physical fire/guts can break it. Secret sword is also quite effective, not many users for that though
A burned guts conkeldur can 2HKO easily with drain punch, infernape can kill it with close combat as well(or contary close combat if that's your thing). It is far from invincible but giving everything ideal abilities tend to boost defense more than offense, do to the existence of prankster with sableye's move pool, on specialy deffensive things. Gut's is a really good ability to beat Chansey,magic bounce stops it cold and it's not like these things have bad move pool's either,
you have absol with sucker punch,boosting, and a ton of coverage(including fighting),
Sabeley has more variety in boosting, two types of priority one of which is sucker punch ridiculous coverage options, and pain split, recover, and status
Even xatu has sucker punch, along side drill peck for those who want to give it too a bird, and u-turn to punish switches. it has wish for support as well or roost for more instant recovery
funny how most magic bouncers have sucker punch?

these arn't eve niche options either gut's is basicly a band in return for passive damage, magic bounce is amazing, and physical fire types aren't exactly unheard of either(combine that with contrary super power's running around and their are plenty of things that can break it.


why would you ever use chansey(for transform) when Blissey is an option for transform?

The problem is if drain punch is a 2hko metal burst is an ohko.