Mix-and-Mega — Now with Primals!

[canno]

A mon I need to hear more of is my boy Kyurem-N. With its titanic stats and thankfully has Dragon primary typing, it can do a lot of work. Some examples include (and I realize some of these are in the OP):

• Altarianite Kyurem, with Dragon / Fairy typing and 125/170/110/170/90/95 stats, this thing is a monster. You can go physical for the strongest STABs in the shape of Return and Outrage (not as good) to bop things, or you can go Special with the decently strong Hyper Voice and coverage, mainly in Earth Power and Ice Beam, although Focus Blast is still good. Hell you can run Draco and slam things in the face if you so desire. Sadly has 95 speed, but its bulk and power, plus access to Roost makes this a bulkymon. Competes with Dragonite for the Dragon/Fairy spot, but they're both different enough to both be viable (DNite is slightly stronger physically and has STAB PixieSpeed and Dragon Dance but is slower and not as bulky - 91/115/100 is cute I guess but its no 125/110/90. Also Kyurem is mainly a special attacker despire Pixie Return being a cute idea)
• Glalite Kyurem has 125/170/90/170/90/115 and Fridge Voice, which is pretty damn solid. While it gets no bulk boost, 125/90/90 is still really good, and this time it has 115 speed, which is pretty decent. Notably you outpace Lati@s, which lets you bop Latias with a Return or a Hyper Voice if its weakened (this is taking in consideration Soul Dew Latias, which has huge SpDef). You also retain those monstrous 170 offenses, and have pretty good coverage in Voice / Earth Power. Return doesn't get that much coverage but it can still work, as nothing is immune to Ice and it hits things harder than Hyper Voice would (such as SD Latias as mentioned before). Hell you can run Facade alongside Return incase you get burned. Pretty solid imho.
• Pidgeotite Kyurem has pretty dank stats. 125/130/95/195/100/115 is nothing to scoff at, especially with No Guard Blizzards and Focus Blasts. He doesn't get much other low accuracy moves to abuse, but what it gets plus that insane attack boost is probably enough. Honestly this is probably better than Glalite Kyurem if its running special, since FridgeVoice has 117 SpA vs Blizzard's 120. Of course Glalite Kyurem can do other things, but Pidgeotite hits a lot harder. It's also bulkier specially - +10 means a lot more when you have a titanic 125 base HP. Speaking of defensive spreads...
• Audinite Kyurem. Yeah, not a lot of mons want to use this, but this is focusing on a wall set. With 125/130/130/150/130/95 stats and Dragon / Fairy typing, this thing is a monster wall. Same it has no Fairy STAB, but it can manage with its old Dragon STAB to be honest. Its support movepool is kind of ass though, but at least it has Roost. Probably not better than Altarianite since that thing has offensive presence and still has good bulk, but that monster bulk is kind of hard to ignore.
• Abomasnowite Kyurem. Probably the only viable Abomasnowite user in the game. 125/170/120/170/110/75 stats are pretty good, still having decent enough speed while having both great bulk and power. Snow Warning lets it wear shit down while also letting it fire off Blizzards. With Roost to keep it alive and Earth Power, this thing is a pretty dank offensive mon. 75 speed is slow but just fast enough to still outpace wallmons and shit. Probably the only user of Abomasnowite that doesn't suck.
• Blastoisinte Kyurem has Mega Launcher Dragon Pulse! And not much else to abuse Mega Launcher with, but hey. 125/150/110/180/100/95 stats are decent, and like I said before STAB Mega Launcher Dragon Pulse! Still has its solid bulk. Probably outclassed by Hydreigon in this, since Hydreigon has Double STAB Mega Launcher moves! But hey, Kyurem is still a good contender for it. At the very least its a lot bulkier than Hydreigon.

EDIT: My brain is stuck in the older gen Blizzard for some reason.

 

[Esprite]

Kangaskhanite Shuckle? I mean, over 230 attack isn't that bad, especially with 1.5

 

[Phione]

Kangaskhanite Shuckle? I mean, over 230 attack isn't that bad, especially with 1.5

You mean Power Trick? The problem w/ that is that literally any Physical priority can pick you off after the Power Trick, 20 base HP and 40 base Defense won't do you any favors (though of course Shuckle still has insane Special bulk)

 

[jordanthejq12]

Well, gee, anybody tried Power Split Shuckle? It doesn't have the destructive power of Power Trick, but you keep your insane defenses while reducing the other poke's attack and (usually) having salvageable offenses.

 

[canno]

Too bad Shuckle has both 230 Defenses and 5 Speed - makes it illegal with so many stones. However, I think Banettite might be the best one for it. With Banettite it gets 20/60/240/20/250/15 and gets Prankster! You could also go with Absolite - the stats are largely irrelevant (20/30/230/50/230/45) but its the only way to get Magic Bounce. Or you could go with Diancite and surprise some people! With its absolutely titanic 70 offenses and 70 speed, it's ready to destroy! The best part is that it's defenses are still sky high - 190 defenses yeah! please don't do this ever


Hell Altarianite might not be a bad idea - it gets you Bug / Fairy typing which is cool. Most of the other type combos are either illegal (Bug / Dark would be rad but Gyaradosite is not allowed) or bad (Bug / Flying....yay?)

 

[frogstomperful]

Thought of this one earlier tonight...

Chandelure @ Cameruptite
Stats: 60/55/90/145/90/80 -> 60/75/120/185/120/60
Ability: Flame Body/Flash Fire/Infiltrator -> Sheer Force
IVs and EVs: Standard, probably
Nature: Modest or Timid (not sure the latter is worth it, base-60 positive is ehhh...)

Moveset
1) Fire Blast / Flamethrower (obligatory STAB, both get Sheer Force)
2) Shadow Ball (obligatory STAB, gets Sheer Force)
3) Energy Ball (cleans up many Fire resists, also gets Sheer Force)
4) -Filler- (seriously) (Pain Split, Calm Mind, Substitute, a fourth attack...)

Come in, mega-evolve, and destroy.

 

[jordanthejq12]

I'd normally go for Substitute or Calm Mind, as Chandy's standard set not involving a Choice item is a SubCM, but I get the feeling this is not going to be a meta kind to setup sweepers or Subbers. Those three attacks already have pretty substantial coverage and recovery's going to be at a premium, so Pain Split seems like a good option. It also gets WoW and Taunt as support options.

Also, don't forget, this is an Ubers meta, so evasion's legal (though with Pidgeotite likely to be everywhere I'm not sure how feasible that'll be).

 

[Isa Simple]

I've been really intrigued by Red Orb as with it, any primary Ground type pokemon could achieve Primal Groudon's epic typing with only 1 weakness, as well as fantastic neutral coverage on STABs (in fact I believe it is perfect neutral coverage with Gravity in effect, if that's what you're in to).
So I looked through all the Ground types and unfortunately the only one that didn't seem entirely outclasses by the big man himself (Primal Groudon) and had decent Fire STABs was in fact Flygon.

So I had a look into and it turns out if this were normal OU say, Flygon would actually be pretty sick:

Its stats become 80/130/100/130/80/100 making it I guess a useable mixed attacker but probably still quite underwhelming in this Ubers on steroids meta game. Which was a real shame when you consider how cool its move pool is too.
Physical: Earthquake, Fire Punch, Super Power, Iron Tail, Stone Edge and U-Turn.
Special: Earth Power, Fire Blast, Flame Thrower, Boom Burst, Giga Drain.
Extra: Roost and Defog.

That said Flygon is still a decent alternative to Groudon thanks to its 100 base speed along side access to a better special move pool, U-Turn, Roost and Defog.

But at this point I'm think ing why the F*** doesn't this thing get Quiver Dance and Dragon Dance???

Which led me to think.
I can practically Baton Pass both with a single Shell Smash!

Baton Passing Shell Smashes can be so much easier now and with such a wide array of scary ass threats, successfully pulling it off could spell game over quite consistently:

(These are just examples jumping at me so they may not be the best and I'm sure there will be other options regardless).


Smeargle @ Banettite
Ability: Own Tempo -> Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 wateva / 252 Spe
Some speed boosting nature.
Stats = 55/70/45/30/65/85
- Spore / Night Daze
- Shell Smash
- Baton Pass
- Filler (maybe ingrain or sub? A Hazard? Some STAB like Double Edge maybe? Lets face it could be anything.)

Pretty simple concept, you put something to sleep with priority, as they switch (or snooze) you Shell Smash, then you BP with priority. Rinse and repeat.


Huntail @ Sablenite
Ability: Water Veil -> Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
+ SpD - SpA nature.
Stats = 55/114/155/114/125/22
- Shell Smash
- Baton Pass
- Water Fall / Hydro Pump or Scald
- Filler

55/155/125 bulk makes it easy to set up the smash. Magic Bounce prevents Taunt, Encore, Roar and all those other inconveniences. Just realised that the loss of speed and lack of White Herb make this thing vulnerable between SS and BP so maybe even Audinite would be better with the added Fairy typing for resistances.


Gorebyss @ Manectite
Ability: Hydration -> Intimidate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest or Timid Nature
Stats = 55/84/125/144/95/82
- Shell Smash
- Baton Pass
- Hydro Pump / Surf
- Ice Beam

With +2 144 SpA and +2 82 Spe this thing can actually go to town by itself. Intimidate makes it really easy to set up that SS.

So this is just a hand full. There is a plethora of options for Baton Passers out there this is just skimming the surface. Quiver Dance Baton Passers may also be far better. Little did I mention that just about any pokemon with access to Shell Smash and pretty much just slap on a Diancite and wreck Havoc by itself.

So in conclusion:
TL;DR Flygon is probably the best user of Red Orb other than Primal Groudon itself due to its slightly higher speed tier and access to a better special move pool, Roost, Defog and U-turn. Baton Pass I believe will be a very strong option due to certain stones making many Shell Smash and Quiver Dance Baton Passers far more effective and consistant at their jobs. Shell Smash in general will probably be epic in combination with Diancite.

 

[frogstomperful]

Wrote this up for fun; I think it will quickly show itself why it's not a good idea.

MISMATCHED PRIMAL ORBS!

Groudon @ Blue Orb
Typing: unchanged (Ground)
Ability: Drought -> Primordial Sea
Stats: 100/150/140/100/90/90 -> b-200 Attack, b-130 S.Attack, b-110 S.Defense
IVs and EVs: I assume straight-31 IVs; EVs up for debate
Nature: Adamant for power, Jolly for speed, something else for bulk

+) Now immune to Fire attacks! (this may be it...)
-) Rain enhances Groudon's Water weakness
-) Cannot use any Water-type attacks beyond Hidden Power, which will threaten nothing.
-) Ability does not block Will-O-Wisp, meaning burns are still a huge threat

Moveset
1) Precipice Blades or Earthquake
2) Stone Edge [arguable]
3) {something}
4) {something else}

Obviously this is terrible for Groudon. Now for the other ...

Kyogre @ Red Orb
Typing: Water -> Water/Fire
Ability: Drizzle -> Desolate Land
Stats: 100/100/90/150/140/90 -> b-200 S. Attack, b-130 Attack, b-110 Defense
IVs and EVs: IVs to be determined; EVs standard?
Nature: Modest for power, Timid for speed, something else for bulk

+) Water/Fire is a good defensive upgrade: for cost of two new weaknesses, three resistances are doubled, two resistances are added, one old weakness is neutral, and the Ability gives immunity over neutral typing
+) Kyogre can no longer be burned, though this was never a huge threat to Kyogre
-) No STAB moves beyond Hidden Power [Fire]
-) Moveset not likely to be very powerful
-) Now weak to Stealth Rock

Moveset
1) Hidden Power [Fire]
2) Ice Beam
3) Thunderbolt
4) semi-filler spot: viable options include Calm Mind, Protect, Toxic or Thunder Wave for status spreading, a surprise physical attack ...

Kyogre doesn't exactly shine here but compared to Groudon this is sheer robbery.

 

[Isa Simple]

Tyranitarite is actually pretty sick.

The stats are very well distributed for Rock type physical attackers with +30 Atk, +40 Def, +20 SpD and +10 speed.
Plus they all get Sandstorm's SpD boost, chip damage and utility for Sand Force (likely some decent ones with Steelixite and Garchompite) and Sand Rush users.

Some decent users would likely be Aerodactyl, Archeops and Terrakion as the former two would be fantastic offensive pivots and the latter, how ever not as much utility, would become a much stronger SD sweeper.

Aerodactyl
80/135/105/60/95/140 Rock/Flying
Access to Roost, SR, Defog, Taunt and solid coverage.

Archeops
75/170/105/112/85/120 Rock/Flying
Access to Roost, SR, Defog, Taunt, U-Turn, Knock Off, Heat wave and solid coverage.

^ These two kinda remind me of AV Tornadus-T in OU.

Terrakion
91/159/130/72/110/118 Rock/Fighting
Access to SR, Taunt, SD, RP, great dual Stabs and coverage.

Lastly I feel that rocks types resistances to Fire and Flying will be very useful in this meta due to Red Orb, Charizardite Y, Pinsirite and Salamencite.

 

[Phione]

Wrote this up for fun; I think it will quickly show itself why it's not a good idea.

MISMATCHED PRIMAL ORBS!

Groudon @ Blue Orb
Typing: unchanged (Ground)
Ability: Drought -> Primordial Sea
Stats: 100/150/140/100/90/90 -> b-200 Attack, b-130 S.Attack, b-110 S.Defense
IVs and EVs: I assume straight-31 IVs; EVs up for debate
Nature: Adamant for power, Jolly for speed, something else for bulk

+) Now immune to Fire attacks! (this may be it...)
-) Rain enhances Groudon's Water weakness
-) Cannot use any Water-type attacks beyond Hidden Power, which will threaten nothing.
-) Ability does not block Will-O-Wisp, meaning burns are still a huge threat

Moveset
1) Precipice Blades or Earthquake
2) Stone Edge [arguable]
3) {something}
4) {something else}

Obviously this is terrible for Groudon. Now for the other ...

Kyogre @ Red Orb
Typing: Water -> Water/Fire
Ability: Drizzle -> Desolate Land
Stats: 100/100/90/150/140/90 -> b-200 S. Attack, b-130 Attack, b-110 Defense
IVs and EVs: IVs to be determined; EVs standard?
Nature: Modest for power, Timid for speed, something else for bulk

+) Water/Fire is a good defensive upgrade: for cost of two new weaknesses, three resistances are doubled, two resistances are added, one old weakness is neutral, and the Ability gives immunity over neutral typing
+) Kyogre can no longer be burned, though this was never a huge threat to Kyogre
-) No STAB moves beyond Hidden Power [Fire]
-) Moveset not likely to be very powerful
-) Now weak to Stealth Rock

Moveset
1) Hidden Power [Fire]
2) Ice Beam
3) Thunderbolt
4) semi-filler spot: viable options include Calm Mind, Protect, Toxic or Thunder Wave for status spreading, a surprise physical attack ...

Kyogre doesn't exactly shine here but compared to Groudon this is sheer robbery.

Ubers can only use their own Mega Stone / Orb. If this was legal, though, it would be hilarious.

 

[jordanthejq12]

And somebody would use those sets, too. Don't give anybody any ideas.

On the subject of Ubers, topic for discussion, I suppose. This is pretty much Power Creep: The Meta, where ordinary mons have the ability to match and surpass the abilities of the most powerful creatures available. How do the existing Ubers keep up?

 

[Tarontos]

I think we need an ubers version where nothing is illegal imagine the red orb vcreate coming off of primal raydon. And the power of extreem killer backed by ates, mega Blazedon, mega altogre. Mega meda Kyruem. Slaking with just about anything, lugia/ giratina with sabeleynite and slowbrownite. the possibilities for brokenness are endless.

 

[Throbulator36]

I think we need an ubers version where nothing is illegal imagine the red orb vcreate coming off of primal raydon. And the power of extreem killer backed by ates, mega Blazedon, mega altogre. Mega meda Kyruem. Slaking with just about anything, lugia/ giratina with sabeleynite and slowbrownite. the possibilities for brokenness are endless.

the best way would be to combine it with hackmons(altarianite mega beedrill ftw)

 

[jordanthejq12]

So you want an AG-based meta? Well, if you wanna be broken, might as well be as broken as humanly possible.

 

[Blumenwitz]

the best way would be to combine it with hackmons(altarianite mega beedrill ftw)

Oh God. Mega Evolutions on Mega Evolutions.

The whole meta would be one big race to create the most broken combination possible.

Beedrillite Mega Mewtwo X
Adaptability
106/250/100/124/100/200

Mawilite Mega Heracross
Huge Power
80/205/155/40/145/75

Sablenite Mega Diancie
Magic Bounce
50/170/160/180/160/80

Hell, you can just give a mega evolution its own mega stone if you want to.

Mega Charizard X Squared
78/176/144/151/85/100

Primal Groudon Squared
100/210/180/200/90/90

Mega Rayquaza Squared
105/210/110/210/110/135

I hate to admit it, but this kind of sounds like fun.

 

[Ghoul King]

And remember, since it's Hackmons, everything is packing Intimidate or similar in its base form.

 

[Throbulator36]

Just came up with something.

Latios @ Red Orb
80/120/100/180/110/110
Dragon/Fire
Desolate Land
-Draco Meteor
-HP Fire
-Ice Beam
-Calm Mind/filler

basically it hits everything nuetrally as long as it can get in first(can't switch in on primordial sea steel types) and has 2 decently powerful stabs(HP in sun is the equivalent of stab flamethrower in normal conditions) off of 180 base SpA.

Also #2015LatiosLatias

 

[Pikachuun]

Just came up with something.

Latios @ Red Orb
80/120/100/180/110/110
Dragon/Fire
Desolate Land
-Draco Meteor
-HP Fire
-Ice Beam
-Calm Mind/filler

basically it hits everything nuetrally as long as it can get in first(can't switch in on primordial sea steel types) and has 2 decently powerful stabs(HP in sun is the equivalent of stab flamethrower in normal conditions) off of 180 base SpA.

Also #2015LatiosLatias

On a similar but different note:
<3 Heatran-chan (Latios) @ Blue Orb
80/140/80/160/130/110
Levitate -> Primordial Sea
- Draco Meteor
- Earthquake
- Roost
- Psyshock / Thunder / Surf

Want to punish Heatrans that switch in on you for some reason? 140 Attack Earthquakes are definitely the way to go. They can't burn you with Lava Plume either, as Primordial Sea nullifies that. You could even run a mixed DDance set if you want to with that attack. You also get Surf/Thunder so those are things for you to use (bonus points if you really hate tran and run Surf)

 

[Da Pizza Man]

I can practically Baton Pass both with a single Shell Smash!

Baton Passing Shell Smashes can be so much easier now and with such a wide array of scary ass threats, successfully pulling it off could spell game over quite consistently:

(These are just examples jumping at me so they may not be the best and I'm sure there will be other options regardless).


Smeargle @ Banettite
Ability: Own Tempo -> Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 wateva / 252 Spe
Some speed boosting nature.
Stats = 55/70/45/30/65/85
- Spore / Night Daze
- Shell Smash
- Baton Pass
- Filler (maybe ingrain or sub? A Hazard? Some STAB like Double Edge maybe? Lets face it could be anything.)

Pretty simple concept, you put something to sleep with priority, as they switch (or snooze) you Shell Smash, then you BP with priority. Rinse and repeat.

I feel like Smeargle would be better with Dragon Ascent here tbh, simply because it can still hold it's precious focus sash, and Prankster doesn't take into effect until after you mega evolve

Smeargle @ Focus Sash
Abillity: Own Tempo (Becomes Delta Steam on mega evolution)
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Spe / 4 Def
Jolly Nature
- Spore
- Shell Smash
- Baton Pass
- Dragon Ascent

Stats: 55/50/45/50/55/95

As well as letting it keep it's focus sash, this Smeargle can do stuff like filtering out your opponents Desolate Land or Primordial Sea, it can outspeed stuff like GeoXern which is pretty nice (Nobody really runs 252+ GeoXern), and it can do some more damage to pokemon who try to taunt it (Although it's really not to much, but damage is damage)

 

[Numbuh 214]

...Doesn't Aggronite technically change your secondary typing to Steel, given that it makes the Steel/Rock Aggron a pure Steel-type?

Here's an example set to take advantage of this

Florges @ Aggronite
Ability: Flower Veil => Filter
Type: Fairy => Fairy/Steel
Stats: 78/65/68/112/154/75 => 78/95/118/112/174/75

Ho-ho-holy SHIT. Amazing typing, amazing defenses, and an ability that not only actually does something for itself, but actually helps shield it from its new weaknesses (Fire and Ground). Any standard set works, this is just Florges 2.0.

I'll post more examples once I get some sleep, just wanted to share this now.

 

[frogstomperful]

Aggronite on things other than Aggron should drop their secondary typings, if they have one. If they're pure whatever, they should stay like that.

Speaking of Aggronite ...

Steelix @ Aggronite
Typing: Steel/Ground -> Steel
Ability: Rock Head, Sturdy, or Sheer Force -> Filter
Stats: 75/85/200/55/65/30 -> 75/115/250/55/85/30

Look at this monster... BASE 250 DEFENSE PLUS FILTER!

I don't know what sets Steelix commonly runs and I don't feel like looking them up to add them in here.

 

[Esprite]

Mega Diancie Squared:
50/220/70/220/70/170.
Holy shit. And in Hackmons mix it can have any move it wants, and any premega ability.

 

[frogstomperful]

Here's one for another of my favorites.

Lucario @ Blastoisinite
Typing: Fighting/Steel, no change
Ability: Steadfast or Inner Focus or Justified -> Mega Launcher
Stats: 70/110/70/115/70/90 -> 70/130/90/165/80/90
IVs and EVs: full 31's; presumably 252 SpA, 252 Speed, 4 something
Nature: Modest, Timid, blah blah

Set moves
1) Aura Sphere -- 2.25x base power between STAB and Mega Launcher ... 180 power, as much as STAB Focus Blast, without a miss chance and with four times the PP.
2) Dark Pulse
3) Dragon Pulse (maybe)
4) Vacuum Wave / Nasty Plot / something else

Blastoisinite provides a bigger Special Attack boost than Lucarionite, and Mega Launcher is a bigger boost to the relevant moves than Adaptability is to its relevant moves. This Lucario would be basically walled by specially defensive Fairies, but that's what teammates are for. This Lucario is a lot slower than Mega Lucario though, which is a minus.

Other options:
- Cameruptite. Plus-30 to both defense sides, plus-20 to Attack, and +40 to Special Attack, with the addition of Sheer Force, but Luke would drop to base-70 Speed and I don't think that's something he wants in any case.
- Pidgeotite. Plus-5 to Defense, Plus-10 to Special Defense, Plus-20 to Speed, and Plus-65 to Special Attack, with No Guard. Focus Miss no longer misses... but it no longer misses him either, and he's weak to it...

 

[FALCOWNPAUNCH!]

Metagross with Garchompite: 80/175/150/135/100/60.

Another sand wallbreaker. I can already see a bulky set with Iron Head, Zen Headbutt, Earthquake, and Bullet Punch. You could also go special or mixed if you so desire, thanks to Garchompite's boost to Special Attack. However, Garchompite pushes Metagross' Speed stat further down, so unless you're running an Agility set, Bullet Punch is pretty much mandatory.

Tyranitar with Ampharosite: 100/154/130/145/120/51.

Man, I seem to really like Mega Stones that decrease the holder's Speed in this meta. Anyway, 154/145 offenses are very solid, and Mold breaker is an excellent Ability. Rock/Dragon is also a cool defensive typing, alleviating T-tar's Water and Grass weaknesses and giving it a double resistance to Fire and a resistance to Electric. 100/130/120 defenses coupled with a sandstorm Special Defense boost only make T-tar a better wall.

Haxorus with Lucarionite: 76/182/108/85/70/119.

Sporting a base Attack stat higher than that of Deoxys-Attack, a trolly base 119 Speed, and Adaptability, Haxorus is back with a vengeance! Haxorus becomes nigh-unstoppable after a Dragon Dance, provided you can get one up. Haxorus' bulk is not all that good, though, although 76/108 physical bulk is decent. Adaptability is the icing on the cake, boosting Haxorus' Dragon-type moves to insane levels. Fairies and Steels will still wall those, but you have Poison Jab and Low Kick.