Singles Victim of the Week [Current Victim: Landorus-T] ~ VOTING ~

[cant say]

imo, if your P2 check/counter doesn't like Paralysis then it isn't 'the best'. Thunder Wave is used on 33%, Toxic 21%... I'm not singling out any one set that's been nominated so far, but you guys need to realise that this isn't the 1v1 metagame thread. You need to think how your nomination deals with the threat and it's teammates. Sweet, you've killed P2 off, but now you're too crippled from doing so that you may as well have been KO'd in the process.

I dunno, I could be misinterpreting the whole idea of this project, it just seems (to me) that there is a whole lot of tunnel vision when building these answers to victims, without much concern for the big picture.

For example, I've been racking my brain over what I want to nominate for this. I've come up a bunch of stuff that handle P2 1v1 but they lose to a whole lot of common stuff in the meta, or are so specialised at dealing with P2 that they aren't worth a teamslot. The only thing I've been really happy with is:

Lucario @ Lum Berry
Ability: Steadfast (or Inner Focus, Justified is useless on this set)
Modest Nature
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
- Aura Sphere
- Shadow Ball
- Nasty Plot
- Substitute / Agililty

Like Creeper said, Luke takes poultry damage from P2's attacks and can set up either on it, or as it switches out. Nasty Plot is to reach crazy levels of power, allowing a OHKO with Aura Sphere. Shadow Ball is the preferred coverage option, giving superb neutral coverage with the two moves alone. Flash Cannon would leave a big weakness to Aegislash which is a no-no, Dark Pulse would let fairies wall you. The toss up between Sub and Agility is up to personal preference. You can Sub safely on P2 since none of it's common moves can break it, however you may just prefer to Nasty Plot on it since the Lum Berry will cure the potential paralyses. Sub also stops annoying switch ins like Garchomp from coming in and just EQing you to death, but Agility can be used to get the jump on these faster threats (and who doesn't love a double dance set?)

calcs

• +2 252+ SpA Lucario Aura Sphere vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Porygon2: 192-228 (100 - 118.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

• 0 SpA Porygon2 Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Lucario: 24-28 (16.4 - 19.1%) -- possible 6HKO
  
• 0 SpA Porygon2 Tri Attack vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Lucario: 31-37 (21.2 - 25.3%) -- 0.2% chance to 4HKO
  
• 0 SpA Porygon2 Discharge vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Lucario: 42-50 (28.7 - 34.2%) -- 3.1% chance to 3HKO

I suck at dealing with defensive mons..

 

[Ares]

Same story as the tnbt thread, sorry voting is late, voting is now open.

NOVED - Terrakion
HydreigonIsOP - Mega-Medicham
haban012 - Mega-Venusaur
ethan06 - Conkeldurr
Creeper3971 - Mega-Lucario
cant say - Lucario

Votes in bold

ethan06

 

[ethan06]

haban012

Mega Venusaur is actually a pretty fantastic Pokémon in the meta right now as it can wall and beat a lot of the meta, besides Talonflame, Mega Salamence and the odd Psychic-type. Not much else can hurt it enough to keep it from Leech Seeding and Giga Draining them to death and Porygon2 is no exception.

 

[HydreigonIsOP]

Vote goes to ethan06's Conkeldurr

 

[cant say]

ethan06. loves status, bulky AF, hits hard. good stuff

 

[haban012]

voting for ethan06.. It's just that i don't like using conk but it sure is a good counter for pory2

 

[NOVED]

ethan06

 

[mhykah]

cant say for a more creative answer. Conkeldurr works well too, but the Guts boost won't mean a thing if you get fully paralysed for a turn so it isn't guaranteed (as much as I hate to consider hax)

 

[GateCreeper]

NOVED b/c Terrak is pretty threatening behind a sub.

 

[EsurioXY]

Noved

 

[haban012]

Just want to say people shouldn't say para will not win you for sure. Then that goes on for ever, because if I say what can counter thundrus, you guys can only say ground type, elctric type or pokes with lum berry, although others can win it too.
And that means it will be same for swagger, only lum can beat it for "sure". And that's not how pokemon works.. trust me

 

[cant say]

Just want to say people shouldn't say para will not win you for sure. Then that goes on for ever, because if I say what can counter thundrus, you guys can only say ground type, elctric type or pokes with lum berry, although others can win it too.
And that means it will be same for swagger, only lum can beat it for "sure". And that's not how pokemon works.. trust me

Well yeah, in a game of Pokemon you can use a whole lot of things to counter something in someone's team, but the point of this thread is to nominate what we think is the absolute best, so if we ever did Thundurus then I can guarantee you that 90% of the nominations would be immune to Thunder Wave (or don't mind it in some way).

 

[Ares]

ethan06 wins! He'll be logged in the archive.

The next weeks victim is:

Azumarill is quite scary after a Belly Drum and can run multiple coverage moves to take on common counters such as Ferroseed. It can also viably run a banded set and nail threats on the switch or revenge things with Aqua Jet without having to take a turn to set up.


You have till next Friday to post, unless I get a chance to close it on Thursday.

 

[NOVED]

Venusaur-Mega @ Venusaurite
Ability: Thick Fat
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 36 Def / 120 SpA / 100 Spe
Modest Nature
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Leech Seed
- Sleep Powder

Outspeeds all variant of azumarill. Can take any hit from even banded azu & not get 3hko'd and will always 2hko azu. Has enough special attack to always ohko Azu after it sets up a BD. And if they happen to be running something like CB double edge then giga drain will heal enough to ensure you beat it.

252 Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 36 Def Mega Venusaur: 52-62 (27.8 - 33.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 36 Def Mega Venusaur: 51-61 (27.2 - 32.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

120+ SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 176-210 (85 - 101.4%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
120+ SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Azumarill: 116-140 (56 - 67.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[mhykah]

Azumarill is quite scary after a Belly Drum and can run multiple coverage moves to take on common counters such as Ferroseed. It can also viably run a banded set and nail threats on the switch or revenge things with Aqua Jet without having to take a turn to set up.

Azumarill is quite scary after a Belly Drum and can run multiple coverage moves to take on common counters such as Ferroseed.

Azumarill is quite scary

scary

That little blue rabbit thing? NO. Dear Montsegur I believe you may be ill informed on what it means to be scary. Azumarill is nothing but a sponge. By luck of the draw it gets a new Fairy typing. Sure, big deal. Azumarill is nothing but a soft and easy punching bag.

Sure, it can Belly Drum. Sure it can be both offensive and defensive. And sure, GroudonEmpire uses it on every single team he builds. But let me tell you all the meaning of true fear.

While Azumaill is nothing but a soft cuddly Pokemon, one particular Pokemon has POISON SPIKES which it can SHOOT IN ALL DIRECTIONS. It INJECTS TOXIN which CAUSES FAINTING. One particular Pokemon is here to show the world the true meaning of SCARY.

Qwilfish @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 196 HP / 252 Atk / 60 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Poison Jab OF PAIN
- Waterfall OF FURY
- Explosion OF WRATH
- Taunt OF DISRESPECT
​

See this MEAN LOOK OF DOOM? Qwilfish will NOT MESS AROUND and is SERIOUS about taking down that dumb Pikablu. Even Azumarill's attack stat drops in pure fear of Qwilfish's INTIMIDATE.

252+ Atk Life Orb Qwilfish Poison Jab vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 190-226 (101.6 - 120.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
​

See that? That's a guaranteed ONE HIT KO. That's up to ONE HUNDRED AND TWENTY percent of POISON PAIN. Qwilfish is the definition of FURY. So you want to try and use a defensive Azumarill? HAHAHA GOOD LUCK TRYING. While Azumarill has a maximum speed of 112 (pfft), Qwilfish has ONE HUNDRED AND THIRTEEN points of BLAZING SPEED. And with that speed it will TAUNT that pathetic excuse for a Pokemon and make Azumarill completely useless.

Oh, what's that? Azumarill has priority in Aqua Jet? HAH PLS it doesn't knock out the TERROR that is Quilfish even with Belly Drum.

+5 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 196 HP / 0 Def Qwilfish: 176-207 (55 - 64.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO​

Not only can Qwilfish take down Azumarill. No. Don't think that Poison Jab is the only thing that Qwilfish is good for because it will EXPLODE on the next switch in for MASSIVE DAMAGE

252+ Atk Qwilfish Explosion vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Sunkern: 3764-4429 (34218.1 - 40263.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO*
​

Qwilfish is the ultimate Azumarill counter and no one can say otherwise. Except for NOVED. When the week is over I'll probably vote for Venusaur.

Thanks xastify for introducing the beast that is Qwilfish.

*Lonely Level 1 Sunkern

 

[GateCreeper]

Toxicroak @ Black Sludge
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Gunk Shot
- Bulk Up
- Drain Punch
- Sucker Punch

Innovation at its best people!

Toxicroak handles Azu very well through the use of Dry Skin, absorbing its water attacks. Gunk Shot easily OHKOs Azu as well, no matter how much bulk it runs unless it's heavily invested in defense, but no one really does that, and you could switch Black Sludge for LO and Bulk Up for SD or Substitute if you want to OHKO physically defensive variants. Croak should watch out for Play Rough, so it should not be switching in unless you predict it's using a move other than Play Rough. Toxicroak's other niche in this format is to handle bulky waters like Crocune and bulky fairies.

+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Toxicroak: 534-628 (337.9 - 397.4%) -- guaranteed lolnope, get outsped by this:
252+ Atk Toxicroak Gunk Shot vs. 228 HP / 12 Def Azumarill: 230-272 (112.7 - 133.3%) -- guaranteed Azu getting rekt

252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Toxicroak: 135-159 (85.4 - 100.6%) -- 6.3%? Lol, like that's going happen.
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Toxicroak: 74-88 (46.8 - 55.6%) -- 23% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery (why would you use this on a Toxicroak when Play Rough exists?)

Toxicroak is OP my frens, we should be all using it.

plz don't take that last part seriously

 

[SM979]

Vileplume @ Choice Specs
Ability: Effect Spore
EVs: 244 HP / 236 Def / 16 SpA / 4 SpD / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Sludge Bomb
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power Fire
- Moonblast

All hail the DEFENSIVE SPECS VILEPLUME. This thing is an Azumarill killing machine. Just make sure you have Stealth Rock on the opponent's field, none on your side, and you're good to go.

• +6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 244 HP / 236+ Def Vileplume: 153-180 (84.5 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
• 16 SpA Choice Specs Vileplume Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Azumarill: 200-236 (96.6 - 114%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Even without Stealth Rock, however, Vileplume still has a 75% chance to OHKO Azumarill:

• 16 SpA Choice Specs Vileplume Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Azumarill: 200-236 (96.6 - 114%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

Giga Drain is another STAB attack, Hidden Power Fire hits Steel-types, and Moonblast rounds out the coverage. The Speed EVs let Vileplume outspeed uninvested Azumarill.

 

[ethan06]

Roserade @ Choice Scarf / Life Orb
Ability: Natural Cure
Level: 50
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Sleep Powder
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Before I talk about the set, I'll share with you my personal checklist on beating Azumarill:

1) Faster than the standard 12 Spe Azumarill spread;
2) Carries a move capable of OHKOing or at least heavily damaging Azumarill so that a partner can clean up;
3) Resists Water or can otherwise take a +6 Aqua Jet.

Most of the Pokémon that fit these categories are Grass types or Water Pokémon with super-effective coverage like Rotom-Wash, Empoleon or Greninja; my suggestion falls under one of these umbrellas but there are other things that do just as good a job.

This set is my old favourite for beating out Azumarill and other Water types and Fairies. Basically, Roserade is a more offensive version of Mega Venusaur that can be more easily placed onto a team if you need a solid answer to Azumarill (and Rotom-W, and Suicune, and Sylvein) and can't afford the mega slot. With maximum investment Roserade's attacks hit monstrously hard on a wide range of threats even on neutral hits. Sleep Powder is a fantastic move, especially with a Choice Scarf, for quickly shutting down threats such as non-mega Blaziken (outspeeding Adamant variants even at +1), Gengar, Raikou, Mega Salamence etc. I prefer Natural Cure for the ability over Technician as the latter ability only benefits Hidden Power [Fire], and most Scizor variants are OHKOed anyway - Natural Cure allows Roserade to absorb burns and Thunder Waves, keeping it from becoming completely dead-weight. This Roserade set is definitely a tech option in that it beats certain threats convincingly but struggles with others - use it intelligently.

 

[cant say]

Well since the two premier checks to Azu have already been nominated (I'll leave it up to you to decide which ones they are hint: one's Quilfish) I guess I'll go ahead and just nominate something that's good in Battle Spot in general, as well as not really care about Azumarill...

Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 20 Atk / 236 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Gunk Shot
- Ice Beam
- Dark Pulse / Surf / Extrasensory
- Low Kick / Surf / Extrasensory

We all know how this guy got banned from OU after he was gifted with some glorious move tutors, right? Well he's also pretty good in Battle Spot! This thing puts dents in pretty much all of the top 12, as well as a bunch of other things. Gunk Shot may have shaky accuracy but it is a guaranteed OHKO on max HP Azumarill, you also live a +6 Aqua Jet (if you are still Water-typed) so you don't have to fear him picking you off before you get to strike (I would be way more worried about you missing and him going for Waterfall, lol)

• 20 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 211-250 (101.9 - 120.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

• +6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Greninja (Water type): 116-137 (78.9 - 93.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

The other moves are chosen to do as much damage to common stuff as possible. Ice Beam nails Garchomp, Landorus, Salamence and other random things

• 236 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Landorus-T: 187-224 (95.4 - 114.2%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

Dark Pulse lays the hurt on Aegislash, Gengar and Cresselia

• 236 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 109-127 (65.2 - 76%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

• 236 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Cresselia: 120-143 (52.8 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Low Kick is pretty much just for Kangaskhan but I think that is a selling point in itself

• 20 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Low Kick (100 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 148-174 (81.7 - 96.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

You may prefer to use Surf (or other Water STAB) to hit things like Talonflame and Blaziken, or Extrasensory so you aren't totally walled by Venusaur, but if these are covered by other teammates then the first four moves are preferred.

 

[PPB]

In case you need a check for Azumarill on a rain team...

Heliolisk @ Life Orb
Ability: Dry Skin
Level: 50
EVs: 12 HP / 244 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Rain Dance/ Substitute/ Focus Blast
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch

IVs: 30 Atk, 30 Def

If you think Azu is going to switch, Rain Dance. Otherwise Tbolt OHKOs any non-AV 252 HP/4 SpDef Azu variants (please tell me if this is not the spread Azu usually uses at level 50). AV Azu cannot be OHKO'd by t-bolt unless it has taken damage first, so you'll have to 2HKO it with Volt Switch (you need to Volt Switch since Heliolisk is crazy weak and will never take a Play Rough). Thunderbolt is more reliable than Thunder (which also does not OHKO AV Azu) so there's no reason to run Thunder unless you're 100% sure you can have rain up. This Heliolisk set checks any form of Azumarill other than healthy AV Azu. It's especially good to have if an Azu has set up BD against you, since Dry Skin will nullify Aqua Jet, and Volt Switch does over 75%. If you don't need Heliolisk to set up rain because your other pokes already take care of it, you can run substitute to ease prediction, as it works well with Dry Skin's HP recovery. If you're worried that Tyranitar wants to mess with your weather, you can also run Focus Blast instead. Heliolisk can also beat Rotom-W one-on-one.

Edit: As per NOVED's suggestion, changed SpA investment to 240 to hit a life orb HP number (139).
Some calcs:
244 SpA Life Orb Heliolisk Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Azumarill: 211-250 (101.9 - 120.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
244 SpA Life Orb Heliolisk Thunderbolt vs. 220 HP / 36 SpD Azumarill: 203-242 (100 - 119.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
244 SpA Life Orb Heliolisk Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Azumarill: 164-195 (93.1 - 110.7%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO :(

Fortunately, I think most people pump HP before SpDef, and the transfer of a few EVs from SpA to HP really is hardly noticeable.

Also:
244 SpA Life Orb Heliolisk Volt Switch vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Azumarill: 109-133 (52.6 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
244 SpA Life Orb Heliolisk Volt Switch vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Azumarill: 86-101 (48.8 - 57.3%) -- 81.3% chance to 2HKO (These are still pretty good odds!)

 

[NOVED]

4 IVs are invested into HP rather than SpDef in case you need to survive LO recoil with one HP.

I don't know if i'm misunderstanding what you're saying but Life orb recoil is going to be doing 10% to you regardless. So the extra 4 EVs aren't exactly going to help with surviving that. What you could do is run 12 EVs as that hits 139 and that's a life orb number to minimize the amount of recoil you take from life orb. It's almost unnoticeable tbh but 12 EVs isn't too much investment so you're not exactly missing out on too much from losing 8 EVs in SpA.

 

[Ares]

vote

NOVED

 

[freekhoorn]

I go for Creeper3971

 

[mhykah]

NOVED because that set is what I would recommend if a new player were to ask me. Although it's the "standard counter", it's standard for good reason. ethan06's Roserade would get my honorable mention vote if there was one.

 

[ethan06]

While Mega Venusaur is definitely the most solid check to Azumarill that there currently is, I'm going to vote for cant say as Greninja is such an overwhelming threat right now that not everyone takes seriously. Also, I think it's neat that one move has taken it from being countered to being the counter.

e: if we're doing honourable mentions then mhykah, obviously