Ladder Balanced Hackmons

[I like donkeys]

What is the best prankster poke

Lvl 2 focus sash Prankster Budew with spore, leech seed, encore, and recycle

To be honest BH has A LOT of viable prankster abusers, and the best one really depends on your team. Ghost types such as Giratina and Aegislash make for good prankster users because of prankster curse and stuff. Prankster Registeel is cool too because most expect magic bounce or other abilities. Basically any bulky pokemon would make a good prankster user. However it's not restricted to passive pokemon, I remember i used to run prankster mega kangaskhan with spore, parting shot, super fang, and seismic toss (however now you have to use regular khan because you cant mega evolve mega pokemon).
Like i said it really depends on ur team.

 

[Lcass4919]

Okay so the best chatter ray check is pretty much sleeping under everyones nose;
Pixilate diancie.
Just replace pixieplate/goggles with lum berry.
For consistance checking, the final move slot that is usualy left for infestation/steel coverage can be replaced with recycle.

There. The same situation descripted with the mewtwos is now on your side as whenever the ray tries for sub, glow or chatter, it will die if it stays in due of lum berry's presence giving you the hax free turn.
Diancie with 248 HP can survive earthpower aswell.

Refrdirate kyurem-b also does this even better and soaks up hits like a champ but its not as good for regular play as mega diancie.
But then again icicle spear/shard varitation with technician and lum berry can also handle it if you insist on keeping -ate for your own mega ray and are really worried of chatter.

...Generally speaking, lum berry alone seems to make many offensive mons with coverage to hit mega ray into check for the chatter variants.

But honestly I can see chatter ban being needed if the usage really goes to worst case scenario cause the chain reaction tends to easily go that way, and having lum berry for chatter and spore makes you more vulnerable to spore spam later.

this arguement has also been... nah im just messing with you now, yeah, i agree pixilate diance is a good ray check. but it gets shit on by every other potential user of chatter. lol (im actually using chatter ogre, and its way better then i gave it credit for tbh). i'm actually testing a chatter team atm, and so far i've only lost to 1 person with it, and thats because he too ran chatter. of course, i'm not saying "this is proof its broken" since ive only done like...15 games...but im saying "its proving to be effective" despite some of my opponents having checks to chatter on their team.

 

[E4 Flint]

Yup, just faced another chatter spout ogre on the ladder and I'll have to confidently say that lum sweepers are at best checks cause if you have the wrong matchup out it's nearly impossible to 2hko an ogre at +1 with spiky shield. It's all well and good making something that can check chatter on rayquaza but really that's just the tip of the iceberg as far as the true potential of it to annoy nearly any team in BH is.

Also as an aside, please try to read the posts that are in the discussion instead of skipping them cause of their length, and then trying to post a funny two line "joke" that the post had already answered.

 

[DarkKnight2.6]

can you use Mega-kangaskhan and keep parental-bond? or does that still fall under the banlist?

 

[Peef Rimgar]

can you use Mega-kangaskhan and keep parental-bond? or does that still fall under the banlist?

You would have to manually mega evolve Kangaskhan using Kangaskhanite

 

[Halliday]

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/balancedhackmons-213600152
Just a replay in favor of banning chatter

 

[Lcass4919]

as far as chatter goes, i too have a replay of "we should ban it"

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/balancedhackmons-213312253

i set up on 3 of his counters/checks to my set. that enough is worth the ban.

edit: and just so people dont throw this around, i have a counter to my ray set, and my ogre is semi imposter proof(barring reaaaaly poopy hax where critfusions me to death)

 

[thepotato513]

Let the record show that I actually stopped using Chatter independently before this conversation began simply because it felt a bit unreliable, and it didn't feel that good to have hax as my win condition a lot of the time

 

[I like donkeys]

Let the record show that I actually stopped using Chatter independently before this conversation began simply because it felt a bit unreliable, and it didn't feel that good to have hax as my win condition a lot of the time

I'm kinda confused. You say that you stopped using chatter because it was unreliable, but in the very next bit you say that it's your win-condition a lot of the time. Make up your mind lol.
Anyway, thepotato513, the BH community commends your contribution to a healthier and more enjoyable metagame, and we all wish you good luck in your future endeavors :)

EDIT:
Just incase The Immortal decides to be mean and remove my comment, I'll ask this as well.
Is chatter going to suspected at some point? If so, when? If not, well, why the heck not?

 

[MegaTias]

I want to get started with Balanced Hackmons, can anyone recommend a few sets?

 

[Snaquaza]

I want to get started with Balanced Hackmons, can anyone recommend a few sets?

I can't recommend any sets, as there are a lot of sets. But you can use a Sample Team to get started and get familiar with the tier! Another idea would be to join the next round of the mentoring program, which will probably be soon!

Good luck!

 

[Halliday]

Why is moody not banned under evasion clause?

 

[Piccolo Daimao]

Why is moody not banned under evasion clause?

It doesn't directly boost evasion. You can't use Moody to boost your evasion in the way that you could use minimize.

 

[rortik]

So I've started to see a problem with endless battles that doesn't occur in other metas.

Twice today, and multiple times over the past week, I have seen battles that are "endless" but don't fall under the endless battle clause. I've seen mods have no clue how to solve it, and I've had to forfeit because of it. There is a billion ways this could happen, because it's Balanced Hackmons, but I'll explain the one that happened to me earlier:

I had two Imposter Chansey. That was it, everything else was KOed. My opponent had nothing but a Soundproof Registeel, holding a Leppa Berry, with the moveset Roost/Toxic/Recycle/Parting Shot.

Needless to say, the battle wasn't going to end. I was told by a moderator that they couldn't draw it, because it wasn't technically "endless" I COULD end it, if I so chose, by losing. The thing is the moderator decisions haven't been consistent on this topic. I've seen them refuse to comment, tell one player to forfeit, force a draw in a battle that DID have an out (albeit 128 turns in the future, on the possibility of a misprediction, in an already 500 turn battle) and it's not really fair. It's not fair to the moderators that don't play the tier to have such a vague Endless Battle Clause to go off of, and it's not fair to the players to have their battle unfairly judged because of a gray area.

I think we need a set of rules to determine if a battle is "endless" or not.

I don't know what that set of rules should be, or how complex it has to get, but we need one. I've seen WAY too many battles left in confusion simply because of the many variations on this clause.

EDIT: I put Recover instead of Recycle... Sorry for the confusion. Damn dyslexia.

 

[Halliday]

So I've started to see a problem with endless battles that doesn't occur in other metas.

Twice today, and multiple times over the past week, I have seen battles that are "endless" but don't fall under the endless battle clause. I've seen mods have no clue how to solve it, and I've had to forfeit because of it. There is a billion ways this could happen, because it's Balanced Hackmons, but I'll explain the one that happened to me earlier:

I had two Imposter Chansey. That was it, everything else was KOed. My opponent had nothing but a Soundproof Registeel, holding a Leppa Berry, with the moveset Roost/Toxic/Recover/Parting Shot.

Needless to say, the battle wasn't going to end. I was told by a moderator that they couldn't draw it, because it wasn't technically "endless" I COULD end it, if I so chose, by losing. The thing is the moderator decisions haven't been consistent on this topic. I've seen them refuse to comment, tell one player to forfeit, force a draw in a battle that DID have an out (albeit 128 turns in the future, on the possibility of a misprediction, in an already 500 turn battle) and it's not really fair. It's not fair to the moderators that don't play the tier to have such a vague Endless Battle Clause to go off of, and it's not fair to the players to have their battle unfairly judged because of a gray area.

I think we need a set of rules to determine if a battle is "endless" or not.

I don't know what that set of rules should be, or how complex it has to get, but we need one. I've seen WAY too many battles left in confusion simply because of the many variations on this clause.

I had basically the same issue today with a ~500 turn battle

 

[CactusCacti]

Honestly I think if a battle reaches certain amount of turns it should get a option to call draw for it automaticly.
BH is a meta where endless battle can and will happen unintentionally, I've seen it a lot due of imposters, one classic was when two players only had 2 imposters left each, it literally went nowhere.

considering the stall can get really drastic in BH, 300 - 500 turns should be optimal zone.

 

[Imperator Romanum]

The possibilities and creative potential are literally infinite within the realms of the game.

No they're not. Even though this is super necro is all math. I doubt there's more than a couple billion differents sets.

 

[Axdevo]

Why is moody not banned under evasion clause?

Dude it had a great advantage

 

[asterat]

No they're not. Even though this is super necro is all math. I doubt there's more than a couple billion differents sets.

waayy more than that 760 * 609 * 608 * 607 * 606 just gives you pokemon and moves (I did 760 as an estimate based off of formes and such, also megas). Take into account 255 happiness, genders, abilities, items, the incredible amount of different iv combinations, shiny, level, there is way more than few billion. My four things alone puts one into the trillions, and there are a ton of ev combinations. adding happiness and level puts you in sextillions. id actually calc this if i were a bit less lazy.

 

[verbatim]

So I've started to see a problem with endless battles that doesn't occur in other metas.

Twice today, and multiple times over the past week, I have seen battles that are "endless" but don't fall under the endless battle clause. I've seen mods have no clue how to solve it, and I've had to forfeit because of it. There is a billion ways this could happen, because it's Balanced Hackmons, but I'll explain the one that happened to me earlier:

I had two Imposter Chansey. That was it, everything else was KOed. My opponent had nothing but a Soundproof Registeel, holding a Leppa Berry, with the moveset Roost/Toxic/Recover/Parting Shot.

Needless to say, the battle wasn't going to end. I was told by a moderator that they couldn't draw it, because it wasn't technically "endless" I COULD end it, if I so chose, by losing. The thing is the moderator decisions haven't been consistent on this topic. I've seen them refuse to comment, tell one player to forfeit, force a draw in a battle that DID have an out (albeit 128 turns in the future, on the possibility of a misprediction, in an already 500 turn battle) and it's not really fair. It's not fair to the moderators that don't play the tier to have such a vague Endless Battle Clause to go off of, and it's not fair to the players to have their battle unfairly judged because of a gray area.

I think we need a set of rules to determine if a battle is "endless" or not.

I don't know what that set of rules should be, or how complex it has to get, but we need one. I've seen WAY too many battles left in confusion simply because of the many variations on this clause.

Agreed. My schoolwork is going to occupy most of my time for the next few days, but if you guys talk about preferred solutions I can look at getting one implemented over the weekend

 

[Piccolo Daimao]

So I've started to see a problem with endless battles that doesn't occur in other metas.

Twice today, and multiple times over the past week, I have seen battles that are "endless" but don't fall under the endless battle clause. I've seen mods have no clue how to solve it, and I've had to forfeit because of it. There is a billion ways this could happen, because it's Balanced Hackmons, but I'll explain the one that happened to me earlier:

I had two Imposter Chansey. That was it, everything else was KOed. My opponent had nothing but a Soundproof Registeel, holding a Leppa Berry, with the moveset Roost/Toxic/Recover/Parting Shot.

Needless to say, the battle wasn't going to end. I was told by a moderator that they couldn't draw it, because it wasn't technically "endless" I COULD end it, if I so chose, by losing. The thing is the moderator decisions haven't been consistent on this topic. I've seen them refuse to comment, tell one player to forfeit, force a draw in a battle that DID have an out (albeit 128 turns in the future, on the possibility of a misprediction, in an already 500 turn battle) and it's not really fair. It's not fair to the moderators that don't play the tier to have such a vague Endless Battle Clause to go off of, and it's not fair to the players to have their battle unfairly judged because of a gray area.

I think we need a set of rules to determine if a battle is "endless" or not.

I don't know what that set of rules should be, or how complex it has to get, but we need one. I've seen WAY too many battles left in confusion simply because of the many variations on this clause.

Correct me if I'm wrong but that doesn't seem like it's an endless battle at all. He had a definitely finite amount of PP, considering he didn't have Recycle/Harvest and you weren't Fling-ing Leppas at him, so he would eventually run out of PP and would struggle. Additionally, if that somehow didn't happen, he was making no effort to heal you, so you would eventually Struggle to death. Finally, there was nothing stopping you from switching between your Chanseys until he struggled. I don't see how this is an infinite battle, am I missing something?

 

[JungleB]

Correct me if I'm wrong but that doesn't seem like it's an endless battle at all. He had a definitely finite amount of PP, considering he didn't have Recycle/Harvest and you weren't Fling-ing Leppas at him, so he would eventually run out of PP and would struggle. Additionally, if that somehow didn't happen, he was making no effort to heal you, so you would eventually Struggle to death. Finally, there was nothing stopping you from switching between your Chanseys until he struggled. I don't see how this is an infinite battle, am I missing something?

I think he meant recycle instead of recover, because it also has roost.

 

[Axdevo]

Correct

 

[EV]

I was called into this battle. Rortik was just switching his Chanseys in and out while the opponent's Registeel was forced to waste PP until Leppa kicked in. 1) no Recycle meant Registeel would eventually Struggle 2) switch-stalling can be done in almost any other scenario and is only endless because you refused to engage the Registeel and wait out Imposter's PP loss.

Also I was unable to force a draw since I'm a driver not a mod. Had I been able to, I would have used the link in the OP to determine if it qualified as endless. You can refer sim mods to that link for them to pass judgment.

 

[verbatim]

That ties partially into why I want to find a better way to address it. As is, very few staff can actually force win and tie, and of them only me and TI really loiter in Other Metas. There might not be an easier way to handle this, but if anyone has any ideas I'm all ears.