VGC 2015: Ask a Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer

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Hello

I plan on running an Aegislash with quiet nature and the moves Kings shield, Shadow ball, Flash cannon, Wide guard.
In terms of EV's I am thinking 252 HP/4 Defense/252 Sp.Attack, but should it be EV'd to survive anything?
I do not have a specific team for it, I am probably going to use it for several teams. Just want to know what I should EV'train it for in general.
Unless I'm running a glass cannon mon, I never run 252/4/252 anything. Leaves you open for single target special attacks

252 SpAtk Choice Specs Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP/0 SpDef Aegislash: 140 - 168 (83.8 - 100.6%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

while not being very likely to be a ohko with timid, modest hydreigon packs a harder punch

252+ SpAtk Choice Specs Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP/0 SpDef Aegislash: 156 - 186 (93.4 - 111.4%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
 
Unless I'm running a glass cannon mon, I never run 252/4/252 anything. Leaves you open for single target special attacks

252 SpAtk Choice Specs Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP/0 SpDef Aegislash: 140 - 168 (83.8 - 100.6%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

while not being very likely to be a ohko with timid, modest hydreigon packs a harder punch

252+ SpAtk Choice Specs Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP/0 SpDef Aegislash: 156 - 186 (93.4 - 111.4%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
Okay, thanks for the info. I think I will try to figure out an EV spread on my own, just wanted to know what to EV for. Think I might have surviving specs Dark pulse from modest Hydreigon as one of my goals.
 

Albus

The Triumphant
is a Top Social Media Contributor Alumnus
What's the "standard" Mega CharY's bulky EV spread? I want to know it to have a "starting point" to start fiddling with it in the damagecalc to tailor it to my needs.
 
What's the "standard" Mega CharY's bulky EV spread? I want to know it to have a "starting point" to start fiddling with it in the damagecalc to tailor it to my needs.
Charizard @ Charizardite-Y
Ability: Blaze
Modest Nature
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 36 SpA / 12 SpD / 204 Spe

That one? Built to survive a garchomp rockslide or specs hydra draco...

Charizard @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 76 Def / 12 SpA / 12 SpD / 156 Spe
Modest Nature

Or this one for mega Kang return
 

Albus

The Triumphant
is a Top Social Media Contributor Alumnus
Charizard @ Charizardite-Y
Ability: Blaze
Modest Nature
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 36 SpA / 12 SpD / 204 Spe

That one? Built to survive a garchomp rockslide or specs hydra draco...

Charizard @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 76 Def / 12 SpA / 12 SpD / 156 Spe
Modest Nature

Or this one for mega Kang return
I think it looks like that, but the spread I'm looking for had like 196 HP EVs IIRC, but those two spread should give me good starting point. thanks Flarg!
 
Hello

I plan on running an Aegislash with quiet nature and the moves Kings shield, Shadow ball, Flash cannon, Wide guard.
In terms of EV's I am thinking 252 HP/4 Defense/252 Sp.Attack, but should it be EV'd to survive anything?
I do not have a specific team for it, I am probably going to use it for several teams. Just want to know what I should EV'train it for in general.
If you're running Quiet nature, a spread of 252 HP / 156 SpDef is the EV benchmark you need to hit to be able to survive Modest Choice Specs Hydreigon Dark Pulse. I think that's an attack that most Aegislash should try to survive in my opinion (unless your team is very hostile towards Hydreigon; then you can probably afford to run just a basic 252/252/4 spread).
 
Other than obvious choices of Ice Punch and Waterfall for Feraligatr, what would be a good choice for a 3rd move? Hopefully it's not to big of a bother to ask for reasoning for it along with a calc to show the + side of running it as well
 
Other than obvious choices of Ice Punch and Waterfall for Feraligatr, what would be a good choice for a 3rd move? Hopefully it's not to big of a bother to ask for reasoning for it along with a calc to show the + side of running it as well
It depend on what you need in your team. Feraligatr can run as a 3rd move Crunch for dealing againt Cresselia, Aegislash, M-Gengar or Jellicent; Superpower for hit M-Tyranitar, Ferrothorn or deal against the most common mega aka Kangaskhan; Aqua Jet just for having a priority (which is never bad) or just run Dragon Dance and use it like a M-Gyarados

Some Calc:
252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 204 HP / 60 Def Mega Tyranitar: 151-179 (75.1 - 89%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Feraligatr Superpower vs. 204 HP / 60 Def Mega Tyranitar: 234-276 (116.4 - 137.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Bisharp: 109-130 (77.3 - 92.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Feraligatr Superpower vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Bisharp: 338-400 (239.7 - 283.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Feraligatr Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ferrothorn: 135-161 (74.5 - 88.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Feraligatr Superpower vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 169-200 (93.3 - 110.4%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 188 HP / 20 Def Mega Gengar: 129-152 (81.1 - 95.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Crunch vs. 188 HP / 20 Def Mega Gengar: 172-203 (108.1 - 127.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Jellicent: 195-231 (94.2 - 111.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gothitelle: 153-182 (86.4 - 102.8%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Crunch vs. 236 HP / 108+ Def Cresselia: 104-125 (46.2 - 55.5%) -- 66.8% chance to 2HKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Crunch vs. 236 HP / 180 Def Aegislash-Shield: 91-109 (55.1 - 66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 165-195 (91.1 - 107.7%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
 
It depend on what you need in your team. Feraligatr can run as a 3rd move Crunch for dealing againt Cresselia, Aegislash, M-Gengar or Jellicent; Superpower for hit M-Tyranitar, Ferrothorn or deal against the most common mega aka Kangaskhan; Aqua Jet just for having a priority (which is never bad) or just run Dragon Dance and use it like a M-Gyarados

Some Calc:
252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 204 HP / 60 Def Mega Tyranitar: 151-179 (75.1 - 89%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Feraligatr Superpower vs. 204 HP / 60 Def Mega Tyranitar: 234-276 (116.4 - 137.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Bisharp: 109-130 (77.3 - 92.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Feraligatr Superpower vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Bisharp: 338-400 (239.7 - 283.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Feraligatr Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ferrothorn: 135-161 (74.5 - 88.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Feraligatr Superpower vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 169-200 (93.3 - 110.4%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 188 HP / 20 Def Mega Gengar: 129-152 (81.1 - 95.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Crunch vs. 188 HP / 20 Def Mega Gengar: 172-203 (108.1 - 127.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Jellicent: 195-231 (94.2 - 111.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gothitelle: 153-182 (86.4 - 102.8%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Crunch vs. 236 HP / 108+ Def Cresselia: 104-125 (46.2 - 55.5%) -- 66.8% chance to 2HKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Crunch vs. 236 HP / 180 Def Aegislash-Shield: 91-109 (55.1 - 66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 165-195 (91.1 - 107.7%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
tbh, the only KO that Superpower is getting that Low Kick doesn't is on MegaKhan, and doesn't leave 'Gatr crippled. Of course, MegaKhan is rather prominent, so it is by no means a bad idea. :P
Although.. what is 236/180 Aegislash used for?

Other than obvious choices of Ice Punch and Waterfall for Feraligatr, what would be a good choice for a 3rd move? Hopefully it's not to big of a bother to ask for reasoning for it along with a calc to show the + side of running it as well
Crunch/Aqua Jet/Low Kick/Superpower for reasons already mentioned. Sub can block Intimidate and status, two things that 'Gatr is quite vulnerable to. Pretty much all I can think of to add.

Or Leer. Remember the glory days of Silver, where Totodile shot laser beams out of its eyes to kill all the Sentret.
 
Didn't know that Gatr learn Low Kick, it's an interesting alternative for sure.
Aegi 236/180 is the spread for the Wpolicy Set and it can take Knock Off of LO Bisharp most of the time
 
Is a Round team with Sylveon, Mega Salamence and Aurorus at all viable? If so, would Porygon-Z be worth using too or should I dedicate my other three teamslots to other things?
 
Is a Round team with Sylveon, Mega Salamence and Aurorus at all viable? If so, would Porygon-Z be worth using too or should I dedicate my other three teamslots to other things?
Short answer; No.

Long answer; Hell no. It's a niche move and any teams that rely on a single move to deal the majority of its damage are doomed to fail. Not to mention Aurorus has the absolutely worst defensive typing in the game

252+ SpAtk Aurorus Round vs. 4 HP/0 SpDef Landorus-T: 75 - 89 (45.5 - 53.9%) -- 44.9% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpAtk Choice Specs Sylveon Round vs. 4 HP/0 SpDef Landorus-T: 120 - 142 (72.7 - 86.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpAtk Mega Salamence Round vs. 4 HP/0 SpDef Landorus-T: 85 - 101 (51.5 - 61.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

The above damage calcs are based on a teammate already using round, without that boost the damage for all of them drops harder than the stock market did on Black Tuesday.

252+ SpAtk Aurorus Round vs. 4 HP/0 SpDef Landorus-T: 38 - 45 (23 - 27.3%) -- 51.8% chance to 4HKO
252+ SpAtk Choice Specs Sylveon Round vs. 4 HP/0 SpDef Landorus-T: 61 - 72 (37 - 43.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpAtk Mega Salamence Round vs. 4 HP/0 SpDef Landorus-T: 43 - 51 (26.1 - 30.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

Can we just point and laugh then cry about how terrible aurorus is? A 4x super effective move with the boost from round and the boost from it's ability doesn't even get a guaranteed 2HKO on lando-t
 
Is a Round team with Sylveon, Mega Salamence and Aurorus at all viable? If so, would Porygon-Z be worth using too or should I dedicate my other three teamslots to other things?
The power of two rounds is the same as using Hyper Voice twice, but with less versatility (you can't use fire blast with Mence while using round with Sylveon, but you can hyper voice + fire blast).
 
I have a question about the International Challenge February. If I play 4 games today, will I then be able to play 16 games tomorrow?
 

Pyritie

TAMAGO
is an Artist
Can we just point and laugh then cry about how terrible aurorus is? A 4x super effective move with the boost from round and the boost from it's ability doesn't even get a guaranteed 2HKO on lando-t
Well of course it's not going to OHKO lando-t if you don't even give it refrigerate.

252+ SpA Refrigerate Aurorus Round (60BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 216-256 (130.9 - 155.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

That's more like it.
 
With the Pentagon Rule in place, do VGC players still do a lot of RNGing in past-gen games in order to have a flawless (or whatever IVs you want) father to hold the Destiny Knot and pass down its IVs? I say "father" since I imagine that the mother (or Ditto) would typically be holding the Everstone.
 
With the Pentagon Rule in place, do VGC players still do a lot of RNGing in past-gen games in order to have a flawless (or whatever IVs you want) father to hold the Destiny Knot and pass down its IVs? I say "father" since I imagine that the mother (or Ditto) would typically be holding the Everstone.
I would say no because other than rare egg moves and unique balls which you want to use on females, it's redundant. Dittos and Legends would be the only things I worried about in gen 3-5
 
Why do I run into nothing but Japanese troll teams when its 4:30 am in Tokyo? I mean really, I don't when to go online to avoid this shit if 4:30am is when the Role play/Sheer Cold Smeargle + Scarf Machamp are out looking for hax magnets. Not just one, 3/3 BS Doubles matches were Japanese. One was ok, all he had was a Chandy and Mega Khan that scored crits on every single attack they used, but at least its not a gimmick. I just need to add a Prankster Lucky Chant user to my team is all.

With the Pentagon Rule in place, do VGC players still do a lot of RNGing in past-gen games in order to have a flawless (or whatever IVs you want) father to hold the Destiny Knot and pass down its IVs? I say "father" since I imagine that the mother (or Ditto) would typically be holding the Everstone.
I haven't RNG'd anything, at all, in Gen 4 or 5 since I bought X the day after it came out. VGC is all Pentagon, and with breeding being amazing in Gen 6 there isn't much need to RNG unless you really, really like running Sucker Punch Golem or EruptTran in the Battle Maison when Global Link is down. Flawless Ditto are all you need most of the time, and people like cannibal have been giving them away for years. Anything else, like Level Ball Noctowl or something, you can generally get quick and easy just asking around for spitbacks. :P
 
Apologies that this isn't really a "simple" single question or one with a simple answer, but I have to ask it. Some backstory:

I don't play VGC. Neither large tournaments nor the doubles format have ever appealed to me, whereas I adore the discussion that "balance" as an aim brings in OU Singles. But a lot of stand-up guys (not a lot of girls tho :B) I know DO play and are very into it! So well done them, and I take a polite interest.
ANYWAY I'm reading an article by a guy from my "local" league and he posted the teams he faced below, and I roll my eyes, because, well, Lando T + MKanga and a whole bunch of staples are everywhere (plus things like Raichu or Lapras or whatever but I'm already long aware that viability in singles is not the same as viability in doubles).

But then I catch myself. WTF me?? I just did the exact thing I give out to OU naysayers about when they claim OU is too restrictive/boring/overpowered/blah blah blah; the stuff people end up using is NOT the same as what's actually viable. Just because there's a bit of a hivemind does not mean the metagame is any of those things. So I felt bad about dismissing VGC... up to a point.

My questions are as follows (and are entirely opinion-based so "IMO"s are fine):

Is there a discrepancy between what being S, A or D in the viability tiers means between OU Singles and VGC? I.e. are things that are low-tiered in OU roughly as useful as low-tiered mons in VGC, or maybe is there a larger gap between A+ and S in one of those metagames?

How similarly does usage reflect usability in both metagames? Are people more/less prone to using (and/or succeeding with) gimmicks, or perhaps opportunity cost for not using S rank mons in particularly low/high in one?

Leaving aside the functional differences and provided support/popularity/official status of doubles versus singles, is it fair to say that OU singles is a superior metagame than VGC? If yes/no why? (I'm aware stating that may sound snotty. That's not the intent, but logically a metagame built with the idea of balance behind it has to be superior to one where balance isn't really directly supported, right? If not, then what's the point? If this logic is faulty please by all means question it. There is no other reason I phrased it that way.)

I'm really just looking for opinions from people who represent both your average Smogon user, but also people who have an interest in VGC, because I think you guys would have the least biased opinions. I mean, you can definitely play and be interested in a metagame without even liking it, (cough cough OU gen V Weather Wars) so I don't see any problems regarding bias there. Thanks guys :) If this is best asked in another place please tell me where.
 
Is there a discrepancy between what being S, A or D in the viability tiers means between OU Singles and VGC? I.e. are things that are low-tiered in OU roughly as useful as low-tiered mons in VGC, or maybe is there a larger gap between A+ and S in one of those metagames?

How similarly does usage reflect usability in both metagames? Are people more/less prone to using (and/or succeeding with) gimmicks, or perhaps opportunity cost for not using S rank mons in particularly low/high in one?
Having a niche Pokémon in your team is easier in VGC, because it's a "Bring 6, Pick 4"-format.
 
Having a niche Pokémon in your team is easier in VGC, because it's a "Bring 6, Pick 4"-format.
That's interesting. Especially since if VGC (hypothetically) was a meta where the discrepancy in power between the best usable thing and the worst usable thing was very large, say... MKanga compared to, say, Gorebyss, or idk Shedinja, the format alone would mean that despite the larger difference it's more forgiving to teams which run those things. For better or for worse, really - that's a topic of discussion in itself.

Do you think the "Bring 6 pick 4" allows you to distribute the "weight" on each Pokemon in an uneven (read: Appropriate to the Pokemon) way? If pick 6 bring 6 means that every Pokemon is expected to perform equally well in all cases, then in B6P4 perhaps you might use one Pokemon in 90% of your matches and another in only 30%, meaning you only use a weaker/gimmick/niche Pokemon only against teams it will probably perform well against. Does that make them harder to compare? Would evenly distributed teams still be a better idea, or be a better goal in teambuilding? And B6B4 has its own downsides, as it makes games more matchup reliant (an inevitability in the future of OU singles IMO, can't always counter everything) and faster, so stall strategies aren't typically as useful, right?

Sorry for all of the leading questions haha, I'm just looking for discussion so I can scrape a generals consensus later.
 
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