Resource ORAS NU Viability Rankings

[Kurona]

Is there a limit to who can post? If not, here I am.
Flareon: B- ==> B.
I have recently been using Flareon far more than normal, maybe to test it's capabilities. Actually, exactly what I was doing. When using a specific set, it pretty much dawned on me. "This is too good to be as low as it is in this tier." Honestly, I would take advantage of what Flareon has and not harp on what it can't do.

Honestly, what Flareon lacks is Defense and Speed. Just try a couple Curses, then it's Defense will rise to over 450.

252+ Atk Silk Scarf Kangaskhan Double-Edge vs. +3 248 HP / 252+ Def Flareon: 82-97 (24.6 - 29.1%) -- 99.8% chance to 4HKO

After a +3, it can pretty much wall Kangaskhan, and most other things it isn't weak to, unless a Critical Hit happens to it. It's Speed will remain lackluster, in fact, since this nature is a Relaxed one and IVs should be 0, it will not even be 50. But it's rather worth it to keep Kangaskhan in check and OHKO it the same turn.

+3 0 Atk Flareon Flare Blitz vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Kangaskhan: 486-573 (138 - 162.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

The drawback is it takes forever to set up, and Flareon has a high chance of being OHKOed without 1 or 2 Curses up. 6 may be necessary for some battles. But with this set, you won't have to worry about pesky physical attackers murdering you.

And we all know the Guts set, lol. I should not have to explain THAT.

Next up...

Luxray: D ==> E

Luxray is just flat out TOO SLOW TO HAVE IT'S KIND OF BULK. I say, it gets decent coverage, with Fire Fang, Ice Fang, and Crunch being those moves that just give it coverage. But other than Wild Charge, which deals recoil, what can you do?At least with Zebstrika you have Speed to make up for it's lack of decent STAB moves. But Luxray has none of that. And other than the 65-80 Power moves that, honestly, force it to wear a Choice item. And, it's Guts ability is hampered by being forced to have an Orb, which to Luxray, is a waste of a slot to make it's one decent move (STAB that is) more powerful.

Also, it running Special moves is a joke. As with all Physical attackers. Yay. Do I even need proof for this, you can see it glaring in your face!

Next up...

Wobbuffet: E ==> D+

Why is this so far down? It's HP with a proper set is 584. And it's other stats suck butt, yess, but there's a point to it moving so far up.

It is called COUNTER AND MIRROR COAT. It can return 2x damage to any target it wants, and with Leftovers, it restores over 35 HP per turn. Also, me and my friend call it Godbbuffet because it candeal that much damage.

The gigantic flaw is, if used against something like a cleric, or something Super Effectice, IT WILL BE COMPLETELY USELESS. You best remember this.

EVEN MORE NEXT OMFG...

Furfrou: E ==> C+

LISTEN FOR ONE MOMENT. Furfrou does not deserve to be so low on the list because of one single thing. It has 480 Defense when maxed out. Now, what other physical walls like that have any more than about 100 SpD and 250 or 275 HP? And most of them lack recovery as well, so that is a common issue with Pokèmon like this. Fur Coat is extremely useful, making it less succeptable to the Fighting Types of the tier, and it does get good coverage.

(Zen Headbutt and Wild Charge.)


-Till next time, ADIOS!

If you're up against a good player, they are not realistically just going to let you sit there and curse three times.
Wobbuffet is ranked where it is because it is nothing but set-up fodder. No-one is going to actually attack it unless they've boosted to the extent they can OHKO it. Unlike it's Shadow Tag brother in OU, it can't trap choiced attackers and it can't encore very easily.

 

[Swagodile]

http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...eelixite-and-heliolisk-banned.3528871/page-15

There was a mistake yesterday, but it's been fixed.

Camerupt is still NU, and we lost Qwilfish to RU.

 

[Punchshroom]

After a +3, it can pretty much wall Kangaskhan

this nature is a Relaxed one and IVs should be 0

The drawback is it takes forever to set up, and Flareon has a high chance of being OHKOed without 1 or 2 Curses up. 6 may be necessary for some battles

I think this kind of speaks volumes about your true metagame knowledge.

Flareon suffers from its low Defense and Speed (seriously who is letting you set up 3 Curses before sending in their physical attacker, like a Ground mon?), its iffy defensive typing that leaves it vulnerable to all hazards and various attackers (you resist almost zero physical attackers for Curse to sufficiently protect you), and the fact that its best attack only kills it off even faster (especially the Guts set, which usually gets off like one attack off tops XP).

Luxray: D ==> E

Luxray is just flat out TOO SLOW TO HAVE IT'S KIND OF BULK. I say, it gets decent coverage, with Fire Fang, Ice Fang, and Crunch being those moves that just give it coverage. But other than Wild Charge, which deals recoil, what can you do?At least with Zebstrika you have Speed to make up for it's lack of decent STAB moves. But Luxray has none of that. And other than the 65-80 Power moves that, honestly, force it to wear a Choice item. And, it's Guts ability is hampered by being forced to have an Orb, which to Luxray, is a waste of a slot to make it's one decent move (STAB that is) more powerful.

Also, it running Special moves is a joke. As with all Physical attackers. Yay. Do I even need proof for this, you can see it glaring in your face!

Luxray was ranked, I believe, for being a half-decent check to physical Water-types (Gatr mostly) and Flying-types due to Intimidate. Not that I am much for arguing for Luxray to stay in D, but you can probably do with a better understanding of what Luxray does and what makes it usable. http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/luxray-3-∞-2-2-doooooooooone-finally.3515741/

Wobbuffet: E ==> D+

Since it can no longer trap things, it's incredibly easy to circumvent its CounterCoat with any kind of team, with the use of more passive attacks like Toxic or Trick. Pokemon that can setup can also power through Wobb with barely any risk to themselves as they can switch out of Encore. Wobb is just a sitting duck most of the time. Speaking of sitting duck...

Furfrou: E ==> C+

You can give me all the inflated stats and favorable calcs for Furfrou in the world, but the fact remains that Furfrou does very little with its bulk. It can't heal itself, it can't heal teammates (be it HP or status), it doesn't resist jackshit (Ghost immunity rendered obsolete since they are special attackers), its coverage is too poor to ever consider going sweeping (meaning it just gets walled back), it's not even that strong, etc... so what is sitting there Cotton Guarding going to do? It has barely any support attacks; literally all I see it doing is status (Thunder Wave / Toxic) and Roar, which isn't a rare or even particularly favorable niche anything (Granbull exists if u want it that badly). Furfrou is a rare case where it suffers massively from 4MSS and still doesn't manage to do very much at all.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

In response to Shadow Flareon's points (which are at the bottom of page 12)

Not commenting on Flareon, but a Curse set is a bad reason to move Flareon up. It doesn't have the typing to set up effectively and it's practically insanely easy to kill without any boosts. No one is ever letting you boost to +3 or higher that easily.

Furfrou is ranked as low as it is because even though it can take hits like a champion, it doesn't really do anything otherwise. It is very weak offensively, as it's running off of a mere 80 Attack stat, which is frankly quite subpar especially when Furfrou isn't really investing into that stat. Even though its movepool is mildly usable it's still not too great, and it's bait for a lot of stuff. Furthermore, Furfrou cannot really support its team. It can only use Thunder Wave and Roar, but there are far better users of those moves that, in every retrospect, can also do a lot more than Furfrou in this tier. Furfrou just doesn't really do anything-it doesn't support its team or provide any sort of offensive presence. It also basically folds to a lot of special attackers in this tier. It's also outclassed by many other Normal-types in this tier. Basically, Furfrou is a lot like Dusclops, only worse: It can take hits very well, but it is unable to really capitalize on its defensive capabilities at all. E Rank is very fitting for a Pokemon who just sits there and does nothing in most games.

Wobbuffet is awful. Without Shadow Tag, all it does is sit there and serve as setup fodder to the absolute max. It can't trap things to kill them, and anything can just switch out of it and possibly drain it of CounterCoat. CounterCoat alone is easily circumvented by Taunt and other non-damaging shenanigans, and Wobbuffet frankly is a guessing game in a physical form when it's down to the wire. It's just a very do-nothing Pokemon that relies on mindgames to work at all in most cases. Keep it in E.

Luxray is probably fine in D. It's not a good Pokemon by any means but it has a few niches in the tier, which, at least in my opinion, are enough to keep it ranked. It's a decent pivot with Intimidate, which allows it to weaken Feraligatr's firepower somewhat when it comes in, among other physical attackers, then gain momentum with Volt Switch, which, coming off of 95 Special Attack, is decent. It has a decent offensive presence, and it can also use Superpower to hit some things like Kangaskhan harder. Its Guts set is also alright, as it has Wild Charge, Facade, and Superpower, all of which are relatively strong and allow Luxray to function as a wallbreaker. It's nothing amazing, but its niches are good enough to keep it ranked imo.

GDI Ninja'd whatever lol.

 

[Ares]

Whelp, added Mega Camel back and removed Qwilfish.

 

[Kiyo]

RIP QWILFISH ;-;

That really sucks, Rhydon+Qwilfish was like my favorite defensive core :[

 

[Aramonia]

Aurorus ==> B-/B+
After playing with aurorus for some time in ORAS nu I really feel like it should rise, especially after the mega Lix ban.
Aurorus has many sets that it can run: rock polish lo, stealth rock three attacks, specs and even sp.def (although sp.def is underwhelming tbh). I'll admit specs is the best set imo. Nothing can switch in. Nothing.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Refrigerate Aurorus Hyper Voice vs. 240 HP / 16 SpD Musharna: 267-315 (61.6 - 72.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Choice Specs Refrigerate Aurorus Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 52 SpD Mesprit: 237-280 (65.1 - 76.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Refrigerate Aurorus Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Uxie: 207-244 (58.4 - 68.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Choice Specs Refrigerate Aurorus Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Audino: 213-252 (51.9 - 61.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Mega Audino stats,I still havent found the ORAS damage calc)

252+ SpA Choice Specs Refrigerate Aurorus Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Malamar: 226-267 (60.1 - 71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Choice Specs Refrigerate Aurorus Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Ferroseed: 196-232 (67.1 - 79.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Aurorus Freeze-Dry vs. 40 HP / 216+ SpD Lanturn: 278-330 (69.3 - 82.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Choice Specs Refrigerate Aurorus Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Gurdurr: 301-355 (80.4 - 94.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

...Aside from those mons and hariyama, all the other mons in the tier just get ohko'ed.

Now, Aurorus has many weaknesses to common types and a weakness to SR, but with defog/ spin support it can put in work. It can also tank natural hits pretty well due to his bulk, 123/92/72 bulk is nothing to joke about. I would put some calcs up but I think that it will make this replay too long n-n.

Tl;dr- Aurorus hit like a truck and although it has many weaknesses it should be ranked higher imho.

 

[Cogito]

Whelp, added Mega Camel back and removed Qwilfish.

Can you explain to me why this happened? I thought Camel was moved to RU by the tier shifts.

 

[Lord Alphose]

Can you explain to me why this happened? I thought Camel was moved to RU by the tier shifts.

http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...eelixite-and-heliolisk-banned.3528871/page-15

There was a mistake yesterday, but it's been fixed.

Camerupt is still NU, and we lost Qwilfish to RU.

Edit: and this question belongs in the question answer thread anyway.

 

[Brawlfest]

Lets get this cutie up into B+ / B. Togetic is one of those universal bulky pokemon that works well on nearly any team, whether it be defensive or offensive. With its amazing bulk and support movepool, it is a staple of NU stall which is a full on check to any Fighting and Dark types, because of its insane typing where it has a slew of resistances allowing it to pivot into the most common pokemon in the tier. Furthermore, it packs great moves like Baton Pass and Nasty Plot, so that it can even find its way onto more offensively oriented pokemon while still not losing any momentum from its defensive presence. It's also one of the best Defog users in the metagame, getting past nearly every hazard user not named Garbodor in the tier.

 

[Evan.]

Lets get this cutie up into B+ / B. Togetic is one of those universal bulky pokemon that works well on nearly any team, whether it be defensive or offensive. With its amazing bulk and support movepool, it is a staple of NU stall which is a full on check to any Fighting and Dark types, because of its insane typing where it has a slew of resistances allowing it to pivot into the most common pokemon in the tier. Furthermore, it packs great moves like Baton Pass and Nasty Plot, so that it can even find its way onto more offensively oriented pokemon while still not losing any momentum from its defensive presence. It's also one of the best Defog users in the metagame, getting past nearly every hazard user not named Garbodor in the tier.

Agreeing with this as Togetic is severly underrated as one of the only fairy types in the tier. Its immense bulk, great typing, access to reliable recovery and Defog let it be one of the best fighting checks, and one of the better defensive pokes in the tier. Togetic can also use its great movepool and usable SpAtk to run a variety of offensive lure sets with Fire Blast and Extrasensory. A mono-attacking stallbreaker set with nasty plot, roost, heal bell, and d-gleam is also viable with steelix leaving. Definitely deserving a rise imo.

 

[Ares]

Minor update, B+ was looking a bit overfilled so council moved somethings around.

Xatu A ==> A+
Mantine B- ==> B
Cacturne B+ ==> A-
Carracosta B+ ==> A-
Ferroseed B+ ==> A-
Magmortar B+ ==> A-
Rotom B+ ==> A-
Vivillon B+ ==> A-
Aurorus C+ ==> B
Togetic B- ==> B
Sneasel A- ==> A

I moved Mantine back up a level cause it turns out that Mega rupt stayed.

 

[Pokedots]

Agree with everything except for Ferroseed, which I'm rather unsure about. It's a decent Gatr answer, though there's Substitute and special versions to deal with, and it can't do much of anything if there's a Xatu on the opposing team, and Xatu is disgustingly common. It's also like the easiest thing to lure ever, with everything from Psychics to Grasses to Waters to Mawile being able to run fire or fighting coverage to beat it. It walls a lot of stuff with great typing, bulk, and Leech Seed, and it's a solid hazard setter, but being shot down by a super common pokemon and having many exploitable weaknesses make me question its A- ranking, though I can definitely be swayed

Also Sneasel could even move up to A+ rank, that thing is one of the best offensive pokemon, with both Swords Dance and LO being incredibly threatening to almost all playstyles. The utility of Pursuit for Psychic and Ghost-types and Ice Shard for stuff like Lilligant, Vivillon, Swellow, Scarfers, and to a lesser extent Chlorophyll sweepers is nothing short of fantastic in NU. It suffers from the popularity of Mega Audino, Mawile, Yama, Gurdurr, among others (though all of them except for Mega Audino are relatively easy to wear down or get very crippled by Knock Off), but it's just an extremely splashable mon that fits on a ton of teams. A+ imo, very little reason not to use it right now

 

[Raseri]

removed Gatr~

 

[Froggyboy]

to B/B-
With the loss of Gatr, Poliwrath has lost viability, being able to counter most Gatr sets, but now, it still walls water types, but none were as big as Gatr, thus I think Poli should move down a rank or two. I would say more but I haven't slept in like 26 hours and I'm trying to be active on a stream.

 

[Silver Aurum]

Hey, Im here today to nominate Audino (regular) to to B-/B+. I have a couple reasons for this the first being that its 103/86/86 defenses make it a great all around wall and coupled with its ability regenerator make it the best wish passer/cleric in the tier. While it is very passive it has the ability to toxic stall and to fulfill a cleric role with great success.
-Note, Sorry if this was too short but I pretty much said what I wanted to in 3 sentences X3

 

[Ranger Mike]

Completely agree with everything Pokedots said regarding Ferroseed.

Anyways, Rampardos to B-/B
Really suprised that this isn't already a thing, the higher usage of Xatu and Crustle makes this thing a lot better. I really haven't tried much outside of the anti-lead set but that set is really awesome right now. Not only this, but Seismitoad usage will likely dip a little bit which is pretty great. It also has a good matchup versus most of the common dedicated leads within the nu tier, and most of the stuff it has an unfavorable matchup against it can just Endeavor. Vivillon might be getting higher usage, but having to rely on sleep turns is not really optimal. I know that Rampardos is kind of a one trick pony and might not be the best lead, but I'm only nomming it for B-/B. Also megalix is gone, which is great.

 

[Ares]

Got some cool, new, interesting artwork for the thread from user Sunfished , shoutout to him!

 

[DouglasFalcon]

Nominating Lumineon to C+/B-
Lumineon is one of the best defoggers in the tier right now, sporting a Water immunity and a Fire resistance, while having a great matchup with most of the hazards setters, which happen to be weak to its Scald and/or fear a burn from it. The only setter that Lumineon can't hit is Water Absorb Seismitoad (unless you carry Toxic instead of Ice Beam), whose Stealth Rock can be easily Defogged anyways. It also packs U-Turn for pivoting which is a role it can easily performs thanks to good bulk+good typing+adequate speed, and forms good core with other Volt-Turners (Scarf Rotom-Fan is the best imo)
I know that its niche faces a lot of competition from the likes of Xatu and Mantine, but not being weak to Rock is a big difference imo, now that Steelix is gone.
It's setup fodder for a lot of grass types like Cacturne or Lilligant but that's why I'm nominating it for B- at best
If my nomination is stupid (it will very likely be) please tell me at least why it is:)

 

[Froggyboy]

You are shooting too high for Lumineon. I can see D/D+ rank, but other than Storm Drain and U-Turn, maybe being able to have Leftovers, Prinpulp outclasses it.

EDIT: So this is what people like nowadays?

 

[Nickoopa]

I don't post much on the forums, and I never posted in a viability rankings thread, so this nomination might be wrong :x
I'd like to nominate Munchlax for D rank, it's a decent special wall and it has a pretty good niche in the tier as it counters fire spam and a lot of special attackers.
Some examples of what it can deal with:
S Rank: Typhlosion and Mega Camerupt
A Rank: Lilligant, Xatu, Jynx, Nasty Plot Mismagius, Seismitoad, Special Carracosta, Magmortar (Low Kick/Cross Chop bops it though), Ludicolo, Ninetales, Pyroar and Vivillon(?)
B Rank: Cryogonal, Gorebyss(Modest Hydro Pump at +2 does a lot though), Lanturn and Aurorus
C Rank: Chatot (pray you don't hit yourself in the confusion), Kadabra, Rotom-Frost (make sure it doesn't trick you), Articuno, Special Frogadier, Regice
If you think anything I said there is wrong, correct me please :]

The Psychic types on the list are only completely stopped if they don't carry Psyshock, but I think most of them prefer Psychic instead.

Munchlax @ Eviolite
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Body Slam
- Whirlwind / Fire Punch / Earthquake / Thunder Punch
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

That is probably Munchlax' main set, specially defensive Resttalk, Body Slam gives it a way of paralyzing the opponents, what is nice for it's teammates (it can't outspeed paralyzed stuff, though, as it's so slow). Resttalk gives it recovery so walling stuff will be relevant at least while the other move is what your team needs. Whirlwind gives it a way of removing set up sweepers from it's face, Fire Punch makes it able to hit Ice, Grass and Bug types it can stop, Earthquake can make it do some damage to Rock and Steel types, and Thunder Punch, while it might look like weird coverage, can stop a lot of stuff it stops for super effective damage. A physically defensive spread could be decent to deal with physical coverage moves and Psyshock better, but I think it will be less effective than fully special defensive invested, but not sure about that as I didn't run a lot of calcs to prove that.

 

[Swagodile]

To quote an old Smog article from Gen 5 regarding Munchlax:

It might have the special bulk of God himself but it just cannot take advantage of it worth a damn. It's so easy to kill. "Why?", you might ask. The answer is simple: it relies on RestTalk for recovery, and can't use Leftovers to recover entry hazard damage when it switches in. Even worse is the fact that it doesn't even actually beat the most dangerous special attackers in the tier, as all it can really do is hit them with a very weak Body Slam or Whirlwind them out.

Because of the above facts, here's how things usually go down: a special attacker switches in and attacks, Munchlax then switches in to take a hit + entry hazard damage. The special attacker then switches out and Munchlax is either left weakened as it throws out a pathetically weak Body Slam or is forced to Rest and is forced out one turn later while it's asleep.

All of the above still applies, and it now has to worry about Knock Off removing its Eviolite. Terrible Pokemon, should remain unranked.

 

[wolfenstein]

To quote an old Smog article from Gen 5 regarding Munchlax:

It might have the special bulk of God himself but it just cannot take advantage of it worth a damn. It's so easy to kill. "Why?", you might ask. The answer is simple: it relies on RestTalk for recovery, and can't use Leftovers to recover entry hazard damage when it switches in. Even worse is the fact that it doesn't even actually beat the most dangerous special attackers in the tier, as all it can really do is hit them with a very weak Body Slam or Whirlwind them out.

Because of the above facts, here's how things usually go down: a special attacker switches in and attacks, Munchlax then switches in to take a hit + entry hazard damage. The special attacker then switches out and Munchlax is either left weakened as it throws out a pathetically weak Body Slam or is forced to Rest and is forced out one turn later while it's asleep.

All of the above still applies, and it now has to worry about Knock Off removing its Eviolite. Terrible Pokemon, should remain unranked.

Yeah and that's exactly why i think zweilous shouldnt be ranked as high as it is... but that's a story for another time. edit: lol zweilous isnt even that high up but w/e

Anyway i just wanted to know why gorebyss is only b+? with heliolisk being gone and i guess gatr too i guess since it could chew a few hits, not only is that 2 things that can give it trouble out of the way, but it has left space for fire types to dominate again. With steelix gone too camerupt is now a more common mega, typhlosion is basically a god and mons like magmortar and pyroar still put in work. And if you look at the A ranks, a lot of the common mons get trashed by ice beam and hydro pump and gorebyss sets up on quite a few of them too because of its bulk. Furthermore, stuff like kangaskhan and xatu to name a few, have gained a lot of viability due to the bans and they are really solid smash pass abusers... though i guess anything is, but my point stands. This isn't really a nomination; I'm not sure what rank to put it in and there's probably a good reason for it being in B+ that I didn't think of, so I was just wondering.

 

[Evan.]

Yeah and that's exactly why i think zweilous shouldnt be ranked as high as it is... but that's a story for another time.

Anyway i just wanted to know why gorebyss is only b+? with heliolisk being gone and i guess gatr too i guess since it could chew a few hits, not only is that 2 things that can give it trouble out of the way, but it has left space fore fire types to dominate again. With steelix gone too camerupt is now a more common mega, typhlosion is basically a god and mons like magmortar and pyroar still put in work. And if you look at the A ranks, a lot of the common mons get trashed by ice beam and hydro pump and gorebyss sets up on quite a few of them too because of its bulk. Furthermore, stuff like kangaskhan and xatu to name a few, have gained a lot of viability due to the bans and they are really solid smash pass abusers... though i guess anything is, but my point stands. This isn't really a nomination; I'm not sure what rank to put it in and there's probably a good reason for it being in B+ that I didn't think of, so I was just wondering.

Huntail outclasses it as a Smash-Passer and a Shell Smash Sweeper because it gets access to Sucker Punch. I honestly think that gorebyss should drop because it is outclassed in any niche it might have by it's brother Huntail.

edit: the user formerly known as "pwnemon" i said the same thing in my past noms that huntail should be higher than gorebyss but Montsegur is a butt who didnt change it.

 

[boltsandbombers]

Yeah and that's exactly why i think zweilous shouldnt be ranked as high as it is... but that's a story for another time.

Anyway i just wanted to know why gorebyss is only b+? with heliolisk being gone and i guess gatr too i guess since it could chew a few hits, not only is that 2 things that can give it trouble out of the way, but it has left space fore fire types to dominate again. With steelix gone too camerupt is now a more common mega, typhlosion is basically a god and mons like magmortar and pyroar still put in work. And if you look at the A ranks, a lot of the common mons get trashed by ice beam and hydro pump and gorebyss sets up on quite a few of them too because of its bulk. Furthermore, stuff like kangaskhan and xatu to name a few, have gained a lot of viability due to the bans and they are really solid smash pass abusers... though i guess anything is, but my point stands. This isn't really a nomination; I'm not sure what rank to put it in and there's probably a good reason for it being in B+ that I didn't think of, so I was just wondering.

The thing about Zweilous is that it has a much better typing than munchlax if you're comparing the two, with quite a few more resistances despite having more weaknesses. Zweilous isn't restricted to just the rest talk set, as the choice band set hits incredibly hard between its dual stabs and decent coverage moves (provided it actually hits).