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VGC 2015 Viability Rankings - Mark 2
- Thread starter tofucocoa
- Start date
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Old thread wasn't too accurate, Raichu isn't really B- material. IMO it's more C- rank or D
Raichu is actually pretty nice in this meta. While its not maybe B rank material like it was in older rankings, its definely is not low as D. Raichu should place somewhere on C or C+, imo. It has many cool tools, but it cant be slapped on every team, and has several flaws, so C sounds fine for me.
Is Eviolite Clefairy really A-Rank material and if so what does it's standard moveset look like? I want to test one to see for myself...
i'd imagine it's something like bold and max defense paired with mega kangaskhan or salamence. you can run calcs to live select special moves, though. the moveset would be something like protect/follow me/helping hand/icy wind or moonblast. one of its draws over togekiss is helping hand, which helps it have some offensive presence through its partner.
I actually came here to think about this
Imo, Clefairy really isnt A rank material unlike Clefable. While it has Friend Guard and Eviolite, its outclassed by every single other way. Due to it cant hold items like Leftovers/Sitrus because Eviolite, it technically isnt even notably more bulky than it. Clefable has usable Sp Atk, meaning that its not entirely useless when it gets taunted (kind death weight, though, but can do something). Clefairy becomes totally useless if it gets taunted, unless it has Icy Wind, but still its almost forced to switch out if it gets Taunted. Clefable also has Magic Guard/Unaware, which both are usefull abilities. Clefable has okay Sp Atk, so it can somehow abuse its actually VERY good special movepool (has moves like Fire Blast and Ice Beam).
Clefairy is good, and definely has niche, i just dont see it as good as Clefable. It belongs lower rankings imo, since it is mostly niche pick. B- or B at best sounds valuable for me.
Imo, i feel like Nidos (or atleast King) should be ranked into D rank. Sheer Force allows them to hit actually pretty hard, combined to very unigue typing, good movepool, they are pretty neat special attackers. They just needs speed control support to work, and their stats arent so good, but they still sounds like D rank material for me.
Johto and Unova starter's HAs are now legal. Being said, though, most of them still arent really worthy to be listed, but i feel Serperior and Feraligatr has some potential in this metagame. They have lots of cons, but then again, they have their own niches, especially Serperior. No experience with Feraligatr, but i feel like that Serperior's Contrary Leaf Storm can work. Those two might not be best choices in the meta, but they maybe deserves to be ranked in D.
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This and I still think normal metagross should be placed somewhere around C/C+
I've toyed with the gatr and he's got an alright use to it. Has its issues including not being that speedy without scarf or running jolly. but its physical damage is second to none among the water starters (megas don't count)
leremyju
Banned deucer.
Feraligatr shares similar characteristics to Gyarados as Dragon Dancers. Feraligatr has more power, but to abuse Sheer Force has to use Life Orb. Meanwhile Gyarados is bulkier with Intimidate, able to use items like Lum, Sitrus, etc...
They are both good but are hindered by intimidate and burns like all physical attackers, also the presence of Mega Venusaur and Thundurus
They are both good but are hindered by intimidate and burns like all physical attackers, also the presence of Mega Venusaur and Thundurus
First, let me say this tread is awesome it helps with teambuilding so much.
Secondly, I see that Crobat has not been ranked. I personally have been using Crobat for Tailwind and Quick Guard support and it works pretty well. It has an average support pool with options such as Tailwind, Taunt, Rain Dance, Sunny Day, Super Fang, Hypnosis (though unreliable), Confuse Ray and its new found toy, Quick Guard. I'm not saying this thing is A+ rank but I definitely believe it needs a ranking due to the fact that it's a solid option for a Tailwind team and just a good Pokemon in general. Personally I was thinking C+ or B- rank, what keeps it out of B or B+ is the fact that with a good chunk of defensive investment it lives some hard hits but it is nowhere near as bulky as other Tailwind users such as Togekiss or Zapdos and without a good amount of investment in Attack it doesn't hit too hard with Brave Bird/Acrobatics but hey who needs that when you have Super Fang? It also faces stiff competition from Aerodactyl and Tornadus for a slot but just like them it has a move and/or ability that set it slightly apart.
Secondly, I see that Crobat has not been ranked. I personally have been using Crobat for Tailwind and Quick Guard support and it works pretty well. It has an average support pool with options such as Tailwind, Taunt, Rain Dance, Sunny Day, Super Fang, Hypnosis (though unreliable), Confuse Ray and its new found toy, Quick Guard. I'm not saying this thing is A+ rank but I definitely believe it needs a ranking due to the fact that it's a solid option for a Tailwind team and just a good Pokemon in general. Personally I was thinking C+ or B- rank, what keeps it out of B or B+ is the fact that with a good chunk of defensive investment it lives some hard hits but it is nowhere near as bulky as other Tailwind users such as Togekiss or Zapdos and without a good amount of investment in Attack it doesn't hit too hard with Brave Bird/Acrobatics but hey who needs that when you have Super Fang? It also faces stiff competition from Aerodactyl and Tornadus for a slot but just like them it has a move and/or ability that set it slightly apart.
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Goodra is super niche unlike the major dragons such as Hydreigon or Latios. The rise of Fairy-types kind of weakened it a lot too. It's damage output isn't the best either unless you're running like Life Orb/Specs and having only Dragon-type for STAB doesn't help it much either lol. Really the only thing that Goodra has over the other Dragons is immunity to Spore/Sleep Powder and that massive Sp Def. I will admit tho that it should be around the C- rank.
I thought Goodra was kind of neat at the start of 2014 since it stopped CharY, Rotom, and Amoonguss and carried the really cool feint, but it feels much less useful in 2015 where a lot of the top tier pokemon are fairy, dragon, or steel. I'd say it's no higher than C at the moment
It's weird that Goodra seems like the tailor made answer to a lot of the strongest Pokemon in VGC 2013 and that it's never really been relevant in VGC since its introduction.
It's weird that Goodra seems like the tailor made answer to a lot of the strongest Pokemon in VGC 2013 and that it's never really been relevant in VGC since its introduction.
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added goodra to C-. also it's important to note that goodra doesn't stop char-y+venusaur, etc. it can definitely sit in front of them, but it can't do too much while it's there. to keep it from being too passive and to take advantage of its good coverage, i'd say its best bet is a choice scarf set, but even then it's still kinda weak and slow.
I tried Goodra a bit in early 2014 (its adorable, I had to use it) and it didn't do too good, but I am 99.9% sure I was doing it wrong lol. It walls a few things hard, but its Defense hurts it a lot (though Gooey + Rocky Helmet is such a laugh on Khan). Special coverage is superb, there's very little to desire. All it's missing is Earth Power, imo. Mixed sets also have Power Whip as this giant middle finger to Rotom-W.
I adored its ability to deal pretty solid damage to just about anything you'd ever want but man does its defense kill it. I do want to give it another go though, I have like 6+ different natured Goomy/abilities/etc.
C- sounds fine atm though.
I adored its ability to deal pretty solid damage to just about anything you'd ever want but man does its defense kill it. I do want to give it another go though, I have like 6+ different natured Goomy/abilities/etc.
C- sounds fine atm though.
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Someone brought this up to me on IRC and I found myself agreeing with them. I think Mega Lopunny is way too low at the moment. It's frail and faces some competition from Mega Kangaskhan, but it's wicked fast after mega evolving, has fake out, and two nasty stabs. It's a lot like Greninja or Infernape where it's hard to get in and deals a lot of damage, but I think it's better than them myself and would like to see it go up the list. I'd like to see it around the range of B-
Can't disagree with TheMantyke there. Mega Lopunny has that godly Fighting+Normal coverage, and with the lack of really good counters, i think is enough to bump it to B categories. Unlike Kangaskhan, it is rarely burned by Gengar, it isn't beated by Terrakion, etc. At the end of the day, it is an alternative option for other players if they don't want to use Mega Kangaskhan for some random motives. It also has access to one of the most annoying combos in the game (Fake Out+Encore) so i think that is enough to bump it, really.
I have been using Cresselia in multiple teams with multiple sets, and have to say, its really good, so i am nominating it into A+. I explain under, why.
Cresselia is very good, while she is not dominating the VGC as in 2012-2013, she still very good. If she carries Moonlight, she can wall huge part of the meta. She has neat ability Levitate, giving her a Ground immunity and ability to her partner to fire Earthquakes freely. If Cresselia carries Rocky Helmet, Ice Beam, and Moonlight, she can actually beat both Kangaskhan and Landorus-T. Kangaskhan is very fastly dead if it hits Cresselia couple of times (and Cress can heal right back with Moonlight), while she can hit Landorus with Ice Beam (landoge cant 2hko cress with literally anything bar maybe banded knock off, while cress can 2HKO or OHKO with heavy sp atk investment).
Those alone makes Cress good. However, her best part is these two: support movepool, and bulk. Cresselia's support movepool is just huge. She is no doubt best Trick Room setter in the game due to fact she is virtually impossible to KO in one turn unless you have powerful STAB super effective moves against her. She can still support alot after TR is up, with moves like Safeguard and Helping Hand.
Cresselia works also as speed controller. She gets BOTH T-wave and Icy Wind, which is cool to choice between what you need. Like i said earlier, it gets Helping Hand, and she is one of the best users of this move due to her massive bulk and her main flaw that she cant elsewhere bring too much offensive pressure. She is one of few users of recovery moves, in this case, Moonlight. In sun, its absolutely nuicanse, healing 2/3 HP back, which can be especially frustating for opponent due to her gigantic 120 / 120 / 130 bulk. She still has huge range of other support moves: Skill Swap, Rain Dance, Sunny Day, and Screens. Cresselia also has decent offensive movepool, having cool moves like Energy Ball and Moonblast, but it really doesnt have space for them.
She even can go offensive: with either Calm Mind or classic ExpertCress. Calm Mind not just doesnt increase her offensive pressure to acceptable levels, but she becomes almost immune to special attacks after couple of boosts (unless crit).
She has so much bulk that she can boost herself with multiple CMs, then heal right back with Moonlight, and then you have monstrous tank, that is nearly impossible to kill. Expert Belt allows Cresselia to bring some surprise value to opponents, making for example sure that she OHKOs most Landorus-Ts, and moves like Moonblast are pretty neat if you use Expert Belt.
And then, this: DAT BULK! Cresselia's bulk is nuicance. Just, look at these:
252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 252 HP / 156+ Def Cresselia: 97-115 (42.7 - 50.6%) -- 0.1% chance to 2HKO
Avoids virtually always 2HKO from Adamant Kanga's Return. Thats actually crazy amount of bulk considering that she doesnt even resist it or have Sitrus Berry. With Sitrus she can also avoid 2HKO from Double Edge.
252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 156+ Def Cresselia: 159-190 (70 - 83.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Lots of damage, but LO boosted, STAB super effective Knock Off coming from base 125 atk...yeah lol
252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 100 SpD Cresselia: 122-146 (53.7 - 64.3%) -- 9.8% chance to 2HKO after Sitrus Berry recovery
If she carries sitrus, she can avoid 2HKO from Aegislash's shadow ball. Base 150 Sp atk, and STAB. Super Effective. Thats some real bulk lol
And then some random calcs:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 100 SpD Cresselia: 81-96 (35.6 - 42.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 100 SpD Cresselia: 81-96 (35.6 - 42.2%) -- 0.7% chance to 3HKO after Sitrus Berry recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 156+ Def Cresselia: 74-87 (32.5 - 38.3%) -- 97.6% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Landorus-T Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 156+ Def Cresselia: 90-108 (39.6 - 47.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Landorus-T U-turn vs. 252 HP / 156+ Def Cresselia: 66-78 (29 - 34.3%) -- 1.9% chance to 3HKO
By those points i listed, Cress sounds truly S rank material. But she still has her flaws.
Cresselia is insanely bulky, but her offensive pressure is meh unless it runs Expert Belt. It can be ignored this way easily (not always though, because potential speed control moves). Cresselia's damage output is overall mediocre. Calm Mind can be stopped with Taunt, and Cresselia in general can be stopped with taunt fairly easily (well, she can still use Icy Wind). Suicune's recent increase in popularity doesnt make things very good either, especially when more offensive teams typically prefers to have cune has speed controller instead of cress. Buffed Knock Off and Dark types buffed in general due to Steel losing Dark resist is also bad thing for Cresselia. Bisharp walls Cresselia, hits her very hard, Icy Wind activates Defiant, and hits her hard with Knock Off. And Bisharp is top 10 in usage, and on so many teams. Aegislash doesnt care virtually anything about what Cress does, so it can use her as setup fodder with Substitute, wall her hard, and hit her hard with base 150 Sp Atk and Ghost typing. Psychic Type is generally not so good either, having only 2 resists, itself and Fighting.
So, rather big post, maybe wasnt necessary, but sharing my opinion. Cresselia would be S rank material if Bisharp/Aegi/Gengar didnt exist and if her sp atk were little higher. She has notable flaws that i listed, but so many good things, so i nominate her rise to A+.
Cresselia is very good, while she is not dominating the VGC as in 2012-2013, she still very good. If she carries Moonlight, she can wall huge part of the meta. She has neat ability Levitate, giving her a Ground immunity and ability to her partner to fire Earthquakes freely. If Cresselia carries Rocky Helmet, Ice Beam, and Moonlight, she can actually beat both Kangaskhan and Landorus-T. Kangaskhan is very fastly dead if it hits Cresselia couple of times (and Cress can heal right back with Moonlight), while she can hit Landorus with Ice Beam (landoge cant 2hko cress with literally anything bar maybe banded knock off, while cress can 2HKO or OHKO with heavy sp atk investment).
Those alone makes Cress good. However, her best part is these two: support movepool, and bulk. Cresselia's support movepool is just huge. She is no doubt best Trick Room setter in the game due to fact she is virtually impossible to KO in one turn unless you have powerful STAB super effective moves against her. She can still support alot after TR is up, with moves like Safeguard and Helping Hand.
Cresselia works also as speed controller. She gets BOTH T-wave and Icy Wind, which is cool to choice between what you need. Like i said earlier, it gets Helping Hand, and she is one of the best users of this move due to her massive bulk and her main flaw that she cant elsewhere bring too much offensive pressure. She is one of few users of recovery moves, in this case, Moonlight. In sun, its absolutely nuicanse, healing 2/3 HP back, which can be especially frustating for opponent due to her gigantic 120 / 120 / 130 bulk. She still has huge range of other support moves: Skill Swap, Rain Dance, Sunny Day, and Screens. Cresselia also has decent offensive movepool, having cool moves like Energy Ball and Moonblast, but it really doesnt have space for them.
She even can go offensive: with either Calm Mind or classic ExpertCress. Calm Mind not just doesnt increase her offensive pressure to acceptable levels, but she becomes almost immune to special attacks after couple of boosts (unless crit).
She has so much bulk that she can boost herself with multiple CMs, then heal right back with Moonlight, and then you have monstrous tank, that is nearly impossible to kill. Expert Belt allows Cresselia to bring some surprise value to opponents, making for example sure that she OHKOs most Landorus-Ts, and moves like Moonblast are pretty neat if you use Expert Belt.
And then, this: DAT BULK! Cresselia's bulk is nuicance. Just, look at these:
252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 252 HP / 156+ Def Cresselia: 97-115 (42.7 - 50.6%) -- 0.1% chance to 2HKO
Avoids virtually always 2HKO from Adamant Kanga's Return. Thats actually crazy amount of bulk considering that she doesnt even resist it or have Sitrus Berry. With Sitrus she can also avoid 2HKO from Double Edge.
252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 156+ Def Cresselia: 159-190 (70 - 83.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Lots of damage, but LO boosted, STAB super effective Knock Off coming from base 125 atk...yeah lol
252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 100 SpD Cresselia: 122-146 (53.7 - 64.3%) -- 9.8% chance to 2HKO after Sitrus Berry recovery
If she carries sitrus, she can avoid 2HKO from Aegislash's shadow ball. Base 150 Sp atk, and STAB. Super Effective. Thats some real bulk lol
And then some random calcs:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 100 SpD Cresselia: 81-96 (35.6 - 42.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 100 SpD Cresselia: 81-96 (35.6 - 42.2%) -- 0.7% chance to 3HKO after Sitrus Berry recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 156+ Def Cresselia: 74-87 (32.5 - 38.3%) -- 97.6% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Landorus-T Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 156+ Def Cresselia: 90-108 (39.6 - 47.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Landorus-T U-turn vs. 252 HP / 156+ Def Cresselia: 66-78 (29 - 34.3%) -- 1.9% chance to 3HKO
By those points i listed, Cress sounds truly S rank material. But she still has her flaws.
Cresselia is insanely bulky, but her offensive pressure is meh unless it runs Expert Belt. It can be ignored this way easily (not always though, because potential speed control moves). Cresselia's damage output is overall mediocre. Calm Mind can be stopped with Taunt, and Cresselia in general can be stopped with taunt fairly easily (well, she can still use Icy Wind). Suicune's recent increase in popularity doesnt make things very good either, especially when more offensive teams typically prefers to have cune has speed controller instead of cress. Buffed Knock Off and Dark types buffed in general due to Steel losing Dark resist is also bad thing for Cresselia. Bisharp walls Cresselia, hits her very hard, Icy Wind activates Defiant, and hits her hard with Knock Off. And Bisharp is top 10 in usage, and on so many teams. Aegislash doesnt care virtually anything about what Cress does, so it can use her as setup fodder with Substitute, wall her hard, and hit her hard with base 150 Sp Atk and Ghost typing. Psychic Type is generally not so good either, having only 2 resists, itself and Fighting.
So, rather big post, maybe wasnt necessary, but sharing my opinion. Cresselia would be S rank material if Bisharp/Aegi/Gengar didnt exist and if her sp atk were little higher. She has notable flaws that i listed, but so many good things, so i nominate her rise to A+.
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I was for Cress going to A+ not too long ago but after playing around with it a bit I think A is good for it. Yes Cress is bulky but what can that do besides being bulky? It has no offensive pressure whatsoever if you're going purely defensive and if you're running a more offensive set, you're sacrificing bulk. Not to mention it gets walled by so many common Pokemon (Aegislash/Heatran/Bisharp to an extent) But back on the point of defensive cress, it's bulky, yes, but what can that accomplish if cress' partner is taken out? It offers speed control and chip damage, that's really about it. Where Cress truly shines imo is in TR and the calm mind set. Cress is legit don't get me wrong, I just don't feel it as A+ material anymore.
I agree with TheMantyke about M-Loppunny simply because, unlike Gren/Nape, Lopunny has access to Scrappy Fake Out and unresisted STAB coverage v.s. everything bar Shedinja (without the problem of 4MSS faced by Gren). It has two good sets that it can run that I feel make the most of its available options:
IMO it should be B/B+. Also IMO Kanga isn't a great comparison to make as the two don't play the same roles on a team tbh. M-Lopunny is more of a fast, frail attacker/offensive supporter (much like Talonflame tbh) while Kanga is a bulky, hard-hitting truck (much like Aegislash is) that doesn't give a f*ck about Substitute most of the time (the latter part is hard to compare to many 'mons aside from Pyroar...).
As up the page I have seen people talking about Clefairy not being worthy of A rank, I'll give my two cent on the matter:
Clefairy is really good. There aren't many Pokemon with access to Friend Guard, and Clefairy is the only Pokemon which actually fits the bill for a good user. It has great defensive typing in pure Fairy, which gives it resistances to Fighting Dark and Bug as well as an immunity to Dragon - three of which are highly prominent types in the format while the other helps it vs. U-Turns/Bug Bites/Megahorns that it redirects - and it has access to great supportive options including, but not limited to, Follow Me, Helping Hand and Icy Wind, with the former allowing it to troll said types even further and making it pair up well with Pokemon which are weak to said types. Furthermore, it has absolutely amazing bulk courtesy of Eviolite and Friend Guard allows a team to play a little more recklessly, as well as making Pokemon such as Aegislash, Kangaskhan and Heatran significantly harder to deal with than they normally would, as well as making offensive Cresselia variants far easier to use effectively due to it then minding less about the loss of bulk that comes from investing into SpA, as well as redirecting Dark-/Ghost-(/Bug- I guess...)type moves and (regrettably) Taunts away from it, the latter giving it a far easier time getting up to +1 or +2 with Calm Mind if it carries the move. While it does have its flaws (Dark-type resistance counteracted to an extent by Knock Off, no form of recovery without giving it 4MSS, basically no offensive presence) it easily fits the bill for an A rank supporter. In many ways, Clefairy is comparable to standard Cress sets: very bulky, very good at supporting, but lacking in offensive presence.
Lopunny @ Lopunnite
Ability: Limber
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Return
- Low Sweep
- Encore
A support-oriented set which takes advantage of not having to risk dying from hitting a Protect.
Lopunny @ Lopunnite
Ability: Limber
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Return
- High Jump Kick
- Encore / Protect
A more offensively-oriented version of the previous set. HJK is a nuke, but you need to be careful of hitting a Protect/Ghost-type or missing with it. Encore is less vital on this, so if you feel that Fake Out isn't enough protection (as, unlike Ludi, Lopunny doesn't have the bulk to take a hit) swap it out for Protect.
Ability: Limber
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Return
- Low Sweep
- Encore
A support-oriented set which takes advantage of not having to risk dying from hitting a Protect.
Lopunny @ Lopunnite
Ability: Limber
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Return
- High Jump Kick
- Encore / Protect
A more offensively-oriented version of the previous set. HJK is a nuke, but you need to be careful of hitting a Protect/Ghost-type or missing with it. Encore is less vital on this, so if you feel that Fake Out isn't enough protection (as, unlike Ludi, Lopunny doesn't have the bulk to take a hit) swap it out for Protect.
IMO it should be B/B+. Also IMO Kanga isn't a great comparison to make as the two don't play the same roles on a team tbh. M-Lopunny is more of a fast, frail attacker/offensive supporter (much like Talonflame tbh) while Kanga is a bulky, hard-hitting truck (much like Aegislash is) that doesn't give a f*ck about Substitute most of the time (the latter part is hard to compare to many 'mons aside from Pyroar...).
As up the page I have seen people talking about Clefairy not being worthy of A rank, I'll give my two cent on the matter:
Clefairy is really good. There aren't many Pokemon with access to Friend Guard, and Clefairy is the only Pokemon which actually fits the bill for a good user. It has great defensive typing in pure Fairy, which gives it resistances to Fighting Dark and Bug as well as an immunity to Dragon - three of which are highly prominent types in the format while the other helps it vs. U-Turns/Bug Bites/Megahorns that it redirects - and it has access to great supportive options including, but not limited to, Follow Me, Helping Hand and Icy Wind, with the former allowing it to troll said types even further and making it pair up well with Pokemon which are weak to said types. Furthermore, it has absolutely amazing bulk courtesy of Eviolite and Friend Guard allows a team to play a little more recklessly, as well as making Pokemon such as Aegislash, Kangaskhan and Heatran significantly harder to deal with than they normally would, as well as making offensive Cresselia variants far easier to use effectively due to it then minding less about the loss of bulk that comes from investing into SpA, as well as redirecting Dark-/Ghost-(/Bug- I guess...)type moves and (regrettably) Taunts away from it, the latter giving it a far easier time getting up to +1 or +2 with Calm Mind if it carries the move. While it does have its flaws (Dark-type resistance counteracted to an extent by Knock Off, no form of recovery without giving it 4MSS, basically no offensive presence) it easily fits the bill for an A rank supporter. In many ways, Clefairy is comparable to standard Cress sets: very bulky, very good at supporting, but lacking in offensive presence.
I still think that Clefairy should not be in A rank. While i agree its good, like i said, only thing what it has over its evolution is Friend Guard. It is possibly even less bulky overall if Clefable carries Sitrus Berry, it just has little higher risk to get OHKOed. Clefable is alot less vulnerable to Taunt. It also hates it, but it can do some damage with its Moonblast. Clefairy on other hand is almost totally useless if it gets Taunted: Moonblast is just, and i mean just enough to OHKO Hydreigon, which is outright terrible because it is Moonblast, which is 143 BP move (after STAB) and is 4x SE against Hydreigon, hey, not even so bulky mon, and it has potential to live it if it has ANY bulk investment. It has access to Icy Wind, sure, but if you run Icy Wind, you dont get slot for Moonblast (most of time, since you follow me is must, and you also most likely want protect and helping hand).
It is also bad to compare it at Cresselia. Clefairy has most of time pretty much same moveset, while Cresselia has atleast 4 viable different sets (support, TR setter, expert belt, calm mind), with still having lots of options. They also perform entiely different roles, so there is really no point to compare them.
It is bulky, but its not absolutely amazing as you said. Bisharp with LO still does around 80-90% to it if it has 252/252 bold. While i know it is impressive if it can live that, it is not the most bulky thing around. Mega Altaria has for example 75/110 physical bulk; its pretty good, but not the best really. It however needs only around 170 EVs in Defense to live same thing as i mentioned, and not even Bold nature.
Dont get me wrong, however. Clefairy IS pretty good, and while its most notable niche is Eviolite and Friend Guard, the latter is just impressive ability, which alone gives it enough niche to be used. But, it is niche pick, meaning that it really shouldnt be A rank.
It is also bad to compare it at Cresselia. Clefairy has most of time pretty much same moveset, while Cresselia has atleast 4 viable different sets (support, TR setter, expert belt, calm mind), with still having lots of options. They also perform entiely different roles, so there is really no point to compare them.
It is bulky, but its not absolutely amazing as you said. Bisharp with LO still does around 80-90% to it if it has 252/252 bold. While i know it is impressive if it can live that, it is not the most bulky thing around. Mega Altaria has for example 75/110 physical bulk; its pretty good, but not the best really. It however needs only around 170 EVs in Defense to live same thing as i mentioned, and not even Bold nature.
Dont get me wrong, however. Clefairy IS pretty good, and while its most notable niche is Eviolite and Friend Guard, the latter is just impressive ability, which alone gives it enough niche to be used. But, it is niche pick, meaning that it really shouldnt be A rank.
I really can't support Mega Lopunny moving anywhere above C+. Everybody talking about Encore is greatly over stating its utility. Mega Lopunny actually needs Protect to have any consistency, due to it's pretty poor defensive typing and not being particularly bulky. This gives you three move slots, one of which goes to Fake Out which provides more consistent utility than Encore. This leaves moves two slots, so either your only Normal STAB move is Fake Out or you don't have a Fighting type STAB move, both are pretty shit. Mega Loppuny has two niches over Mega Kangaskhan, the first is it's Speed, the second is not being completely walled by Ghost-types. However, in order to achieve these benefits you trade Kangaskhan's bulk, being far more susceptible to Brave Birds from Talonflame, and a lot of damage output. Mega Lopunny is alright and not entirely outclassed by Mega Kangaskhan but is more often than not an inferior choice. Also not really related, but Low Kick is far superior to High Jump Kick as it gets the same KOes with far better accuracy.
Clefairy and Clefable should really be ranked together as they are pretty much the same Pokemon, there are advantages and disadvantages to both. This makes each of them team specific, in general terms it is hard to say either of them is better than the other.
Clefairy and Clefable should really be ranked together as they are pretty much the same Pokemon, there are advantages and disadvantages to both. This makes each of them team specific, in general terms it is hard to say either of them is better than the other.
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