Gen 2 The Untouchables (GSC OU)

Introduction

Hello everyone Shadow_sneak here bringing you a new RMT. As some may know I am a ORAS OU player who dabbles in other tiers. GSC OU is a tier I have learned and fallen in love with since November and I have been playing it in tours for a a little while. The team I have here is a GSC team I built a while ago and one I have been using for most of my time playing the tier. This team has also been used by my friends and the team is now 5-1 in tournaments right now and 3-0 in practice with some of my old gen freinds. Anyways, the title was named after the team who hunted down Al Capone in the 1920's and got him executed.

Teambuilding Process

Ok so after my eyes started bleeding from reading all of Borat's guides, I read farther and found that Suicune+Raikou walled most of the unboosted meta and found that this is true and these two form a really decent core.



Next I added pretty much the best lax check Skarmory. Skarmory not only provided a check to Lax but also had great synergy with Kou and Cune.



Now I wanted something that was offensive but could also act as a save my ass card. I decided to go with BD Zard because of its strong offensive prowess at +6 it can sweep a lot of teams Mid-Late Game and again has good synergy.



The last two mons I slapped added because of semi synergy reasons and some offensive prowess. I was wanting to test out Perish Trap Gar and Exeggutor. Exeggutor can kill things that wall the team while Gengar's set can be changed.


In Depth



IRS (Charizard) @ Leftovers
- Belly Drum
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
- Rock Slide

This is the classic BD set for Zard. Leftovers give it some recovery when its health is lowered by BD and its really one of the only viable items in GSC. Fire Blast gives it a hard hitting stab move, Rock Slide for hitting Birds other Zards and Zapdos. Earthquake hits T-tar and Friends. I usually use this lategame if the rest of the team does its job then I should be able to sweep. If I notice my opponents team is weak to it then I might set up earlier to punch some early holes.




Too Smooth (Skarmory) @ Leftovers
- Whirlwind
- Drill Peck
- Rest
- Curse/Toxic

Skarmory as mentioned above in the team preview is the teams main Lax check. He can run curse or toxic as in testing this I have found Curse to be more useful as most of the players I faced liked to play Curselax. Rest is for recovery and Whirlwind is for phasing mons who try to set up. Drill Peck is Skarm's best STAB in the tier.





Elliot Ness (Raikou) @ Leftovers
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Water]
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

This is one of the guys who is sort of the glue of the team. He is also the pokemon that I usually will lead out with as he is fast and generally a good lead compared to some of my other pokemon. Anyways the set is simple, HP Water is nice for hitting ground switchins like Nidoking or Rhydon Rest Talk for Longevity and Thunderbolt for stab. This is my main check for Electrics/Waters as he is an amazing special wall this gen.



Al Capone (Suicune) @ Leftovers
- Surf
- Sleep Talk
- Ice Beam
- Rest

Meet my main man himself, Suicune. I love this thing in GSC with Raikou as a lot of teams have very few ways to break this thing (usually electrics) and Raikou switches in on it. It also switches in on the threats to Kou and beats them 1v1. Surf for STAB, Ice Beam for Coverage, Rest Talk and to make Suicune be usless while he's asleep.



Real Fame (Gengar) @ Leftovers
- Perish Song
- Mean Look
- Protect
- Thunderbolt/ Explosion

Now Gengar is at times the most situational mons on this team. This is mainly because he has one attacking slot when he runs this set. Explosion can be used and I am thinking of switching so I can break some walls better. He's another one of my lax checks, depending on the Lax of course. Mean Lok and Perish Song for trapping and Protect for stalling out a turn of perish song.


Execution (Exeggutor) @ Leftovers
- Psychic
- Giga Drain
- Stun Spore
- Explosion

I love Exeggutor this thing hits so hard and is used to kill some special walls better. (Lax) (Dos) But anyways this set has Psychic and Giga Drain for STAB, Stun Spore is great for getting an Explosion off on slowed pokemon. Overall this thing is really decent and if you haven't tried it try it.


Threatlist

Due to recent battles I have found this thing is a big threat. If Exeggutor is gone and I have Tbolt over Explode Gar then I gotta go to Raikou force a rest cycle and either stall or get lucky with speed ties and sleep talks.


Fat and slightly hard to break but not impossible

Spikes can also cause problems for this team as well because of my lack of a spinner.

Importable

Elliot Ness (Raikou) @ Leftovers
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Water]
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Al Capone (Suicune) @ Leftovers
- Surf
- Sleep Talk
- Ice Beam
- Rest

Too Smooth (Skarmory) @ Leftovers
- Whirlwind
- Drill Peck
- Rest
- Curse

IRS (Charizard) @ Leftovers
- Belly Drum
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
- Rock Slide

Real Fame (Gengar) @ Leftovers
- Perish Song
- Mean Look
- Protect
- Thunderbolt

Execution (Exeggutor) @ Leftovers
- Psychic
- Giga Drain
- Stun Spore
- Explosion


Hope you enjoyed and I would appreciate rates.
 

xJoelituh

Banned deucer.
No Lax, No fun
I'd rather use Thunder than Tbolt on Raikou to hit harder and also be a very offensive thread to the Opponent's team
Maybe you should try HP Fighting Zard instead of Rock Slide, but you will get more problems with Zapdos but if it's lategame and there isn't Zapdos in the other team you will destroy anything
+6 Charizard Hidden Power Fighting vs. Snorlax: 439-516 (83.9 - 98.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+6 Charizard Hidden Power Fighting vs. Umbreon: 318-374 (80.9 - 95.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+6 Charizard Hidden Power Fighting vs. Porygon2: 364-428 (97.5 - 114.7%) -- 84.6% chance to OHKO
 
No Lax, No fun
I'd rather use Thunder than Tbolt on Raikou to hit harder and also be a very offensive thread to the Opponent's team
Maybe you should try HP Fighting Zard instead of Rock Slide, but you will get more problems with Zapdos but if it's lategame and there isn't Zapdos in the other team you will destroy anything
+6 Charizard Hidden Power Fighting vs. Snorlax: 439-516 (83.9 - 98.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+6 Charizard Hidden Power Fighting vs. Umbreon: 318-374 (80.9 - 95.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+6 Charizard Hidden Power Fighting vs. Porygon2: 364-428 (97.5 - 114.7%) -- 84.6% chance to OHKO
I will try out thunder on kou I just don't like inaccuracy but meh. As for HP fighting Zard I don't think I have to do it as it still doesn't OHKO Cloyster but I will give it a shot.
 

MoxieInfinite

Banned deucer.
0/10 u lack snorlax xD

But seriously, you need Lax, run DrumLax over DrumZard please. Charizard is a very specialized Pokemon, you rarely get more than one shot at sweeping/breaking, and in GSC you often need more, especially if you run a team as slow as this. You don't chip well at Zard's counters imo, thus that one change at cleaning often ends with Suicune/Raikou/Starmie cockblocking you.

Toxic + Spikes with a Roar Raikou is hard for you to do anything against without trading vital parts of your defensive core for it. Booming Eggy too early is rather risky, but probably your outright best play in the long run.
You're also a bit Espeon weak if it's running Sub, and also very GrowthPass Jolteon weak, but that's rather uncommon anyway. Oh, and ThunderMissy is a bitch.
Pursuit Tyranitar is troublesome; Gengar is checkmated, and Eggy gets severely weakened and has to play mindgames with Pursuit and Fire Blast(Crunch?).

I completely disagree with the HP Fighting suggestion on Zard, as the upsides are minor and does not outweigh the downsides at all. Porygon2 isn't common enough to be relevant, and it is a mon that's prone to getting statused sometime in the game. Umbreon doesn't do anything to you anyway aside from Toxic, and Lax isn't OHKOed anyway, since you lack Spikes. And not OHKOing Cloyster isn't relevant either, as Cloyster either booms or gets Toxic'ed early, and won't stay at full HP for long.

You could probs tag Borat, Jorgen, Lavos, etc if you want a more complete rate than mine. I'm still new.
 
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0/10 u lack snorlax xD

But seriously, you need Lax, run DrumLax over DrumZard please. Charizard is a very specialized Pokemon, you rarely get more than one shot at sweeping/breaking, and in GSC you often need more, especially if you run a team as slow as this. You don't chip well at Zard's counters imo, thus that one change at cleaning often ends with Suicune/Raikou/Starmie cockblocking you.

Toxic + Spikes with a Roar Raikou is hard for you to do anything against without trading vital parts of your defensive core for it. Booming Eggy too early is rather risky, but probably your outright best play in the long run.
You're also a bit Espeon weak if it's running Sub, and also very GrowthPass Jolteon weak, but that's rather uncommon anyway. Oh, and ThunderMissy is a bitch.
Pursuit Tyranitar is troublesome; Gengar is checkmated, and Eggy gets severely weakened and has to play mindgames with Pursuit and Fire Blast(Crunch?).

I completely disagree with the HP Fighting suggestion on Zard, as the upsides are minor and does not outweigh the downsides at all. Porygon2 isn't common enough to be relevant, and it is a mon that's prone to getting status sometime in the game. Umbreon doesn't do anything to you anyway aside from Toxic, and Lax isn't OHKOed anyway, since you lack Spikes. And not OHKOing Cloyster isn't relevant either, as Cloyster either booms or gets Toxic'ed early, and won't stay at full HP for long.

You could probs tag Borat, Jorgen, Lavos, etc if you want a more complete rate than mine. I'm still new.
gonna tag Jorgen Borat to ask for a rate. Now I am gonna look into lax over zard with some of my frens who help me practice in GSC but you are right it really is hit or miss with Zard, you either set up or don't get another chance really. Any thoughts on Gar because he honestly in most of my matches he has been dragging his feet.
 

MoxieInfinite

Banned deucer.
Well it's hard to see which way you're trying to take the team. If your goal is to sweep with Charizard, you should base your team around that, add Cloyster for the boom on Starmie(Cune and electrics are rarer switch-ins), Eggy for paralysis/booming on the electrics, maybe Steelix to boom on Suicune (but that happens waaaay less often in practice than in theory), maybe add a Screen(Light Screen better for Zard) etc. You wanna go the offensive route for this.

If your goal is to "win" by stalling people to death, you should just add six mons that never die. But don't do this, everyone is gonna hate you, and you're gonna hate GSC quickly. But the option is there lol. If you wanna win slowly, but through an offensive win-con, you wanna either run Spikes (Forry/Cloyster), or if you prefer the Drummy version, you should go with said Lax set over Charizard, and probably a cleric over Exeggutor so you can at least abuse your offense more easily. I like Exeggutor on stalls, but it fits better on the Spikes + Toxic-oriented ones, and often goes over Suicune in that slot.
 
Well it's hard to see which way you're trying to take the team. If your goal is to sweep with Charizard, you should base your team around that, add Cloyster for the boom on Starmie(Cune and electrics are rarer switch-ins), Eggy for paralysis/booming on the electrics, maybe Steelix to boom on Suicune (but that happens waaaay less often in practice than in theory), maybe add a Screen(Light Screen better for Zard) etc. You wanna go the offensive route for this.

If your goal is to "win" by stalling people to death, you should just add six mons that never die. But don't do this, everyone is gonna hate you, and you're gonna hate GSC quickly. But the option is there lol. If you wanna win slowly, but through an offensive win-con, you wanna either run Spikes (Forry/Cloyster), or if you prefer the Drummy version, you should go with said Lax set over Charizard, and probably a cleric over Exeggutor so you can at least abuse your offense more easily. I like Exeggutor on stalls, but it fits better on the Spikes + Toxic-oriented ones, and often goes over Suicune in that slot.
I think I may just go with lax over zard because I don't want to alter the entire team
 

Bedschibaer

NAME = FUCK
is a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus
The problem with not altering the entire team is that, as Moxie already mentioned, it's not quite clear what the team is supposed to do, it seems that you started out with a stall core but built an offensive team on top of that with neither looking really complete. Drumzard requires alot of support as already mentioned and it just doesn't get that support to successfully sweep. Drumlax likes alot support too ubut it's generally more useful and consistent.
Looking at your teambuilding process i immediately assumed your team would turn out to be a fairly standard spikes abuse team. Skarm, kou and cune do wall alot of the meta, what makes them great is that they force alot of switches by walling and by the possibility of all 3 carrying phazing move (running resttalk on both of the dogs is kinda arbitrary btw), which is something you should consider abusing with spikes/toxic. You can basically use both of the viable spikers, they give you different paces of your game and different things to account for. If you use Cloyster you will probably enjoy a second switchin and a good way to punish electrics coming in on you, a role that snorlax fills, but you probably shouldn't run drumlax if you use lax for those defensive/pivotial scenarios. Forretress would actually be a good pick too if you plan on keeping gengar/a ghost, which would lay a complete focus on a spikes team and it lets you have an answer for firelax. Speaking of Gengar - the perishtrap set is cool because it's surprising, not sure if you want to rely on that surprise on a stally team like this though so you should consider the more reliable alternative Misdreavus with either the thunder set or a Cray/Attract set. Gengar has many other possibilities of being a "teamplayer" kind of mon, Thief would be an interesting idea which would make great use of the spikes/toxic abuse you should run with that core, it helps you wearing down an electric or a snorlax or whatever else it might hit. The Snorlax set (which you should run, it's good) gives you a couple of options too, i'd rather tend to a curselax because drumlax doesn't recieve enough support from that team to be as consistently threatening as curselax here. Fireblast Curse Frustration/Double-Edge/Bslam Rest looks like an effective set because it beats Skarm which you can't wear down with toxic/spikes, whereas the rocks tend to be on a timer if they get toxiced. Other alternatives would be Toxic Snorlax, which probably works pretty well on those kind of stally teams, lovely kiss curselax or 3 attacks rest lax. Again, your options are fairly broad there.
Ok so this was actually alot unstructured blabla so here is what i would do to the team based on the 3 core mons you started out with saving one of the rest. Again this is just one route you can go with the team, you can also decide to build it around drumzard, build it around trapping with gengar, etc, i decided to build with the dogs and skarm.
1. raikou stays the same, consider hp ice or even crunch instead of hp water, haven't tested the team so i don't know what'd work better, eventually change out tbolt for thunder
2. remove eggy, add a spiker, let's just pick forretress - Spikes, Rapid Spin, Explosion, Toxic is the set for now
3. make Suicune a roar set - Surf Toxic Roar Rest works for now
4. leave skarm as it is, i prefer Curse on it simply because you don't lose to last mon snorlax
5. change Gengar to a thief set - just an idea, but a fairly creative one that still has the surprise factor. Thief let's you wear down stuff more quickly, let's raikou prevent opposing raikou and snorlax from coming in all day, the other moveslots should probably be something like tbolt, ice punch, explosion/destiny bond. If this set doesn't work, change it to a Misdreavus.
6. remove zard, add snorlax, make it curse fire blast rest and a normal move of choice.

The team got pretty shredded, i know and it's a rather boring spikes team with a funky Gengar set now. Basically i only changed out 2 mons but the team should play alot more passively. If that is not the way you want to go, ignore everything above build the team differently, but when building a team try not to force too many things into one team, focus on less strategies and try to execute them properly. I used to have the same problem (and actually still have) that I come up with ideas while building and try to force them into my teams, they end up non standard but rather mediocre then and when I try to fix them I basically move closer and closer to standard builds. On general gsc teambuilding advise you could check out this article which i personally find a good read and resource and it's pretty compact too. I hope I could help, i realized that i basically built a different team instead of just giving you a rate, but you might get some advices out of my post.
 

MoxieInfinite

Banned deucer.
To further negate misunderstandings, I didn't suggest DrumLax for the Spiking stall, or at least I didn't intend to come of that way. That was merely for the Cleric stalls. You can be pretty flexible with your Lax on TS, even SD Lax can fit here imo.

What I do disagree with in your rate though, is Explosion on Forretress. I honestly think Hidden Power Ghost (Bug) are far better options, as Forry's Boom is pretty mediocre, and allowing Gengar to come in 100% for free is dangerous, especially if it turns out to be a trapper version (since Raikou lacks Roar, both your pHazers are electric weak, and that's a big issue vs ThunderMissy, a trapping Gengar and Jolteon). I also think you need an anti-Ttar move on Gengar, either in the form of Hypnosis, or DynamicPunch. Sure, Destiny Bond trades with it, but Ttars job is done then, and something FB/LK Lax can be serious issues because you have to dance around the LK's or forced into game-breaking 50/50's with your own CurseLax, and such risks aren't the ways a "safe" playstyle like stall wants to go for, especially since a non-ST Lax isn't saying awake forever, and the opposing Lax can muscle through eventually. DynamicPunch Gengar also forces a lot of switches, great in conjuction with poison damage and Spikes chipping at the opponent.
 
The problem with not altering the entire team is that, as Moxie already mentioned, it's not quite clear what the team is supposed to do, it seems that you started out with a stall core but built an offensive team on top of that with neither looking really complete. Drumzard requires alot of support as already mentioned and it just doesn't get that support to successfully sweep. Drumlax likes alot support too but it's generally more useful and consistent.
Looking at your teambuilding process i immediately assumed your team would turn out to be a fairly standard spikes abuse team. Skarm, kou and cune do wall alot of the meta, what makes them great is that they force alot of switches by walling and by the possibility of all 3 carrying phazing move (running resttalk on both of the dogs is kinda arbitrary btw), which is something you should consider abusing with spikes/toxic. You can basically use both of the viable spikers, they give you different paces of your game and different things to account for. If you use Cloyster you will probably enjoy a second switchin and a good way to punish electrics coming in on you, a role that snorlax fills, but you probably shouldn't run drumlax if you use lax for those defensive/pivotial scenarios. Forretress would actually be a good pick too if you plan on keeping gengar/a ghost, which would lay a complete focus on a spikes team and it lets you have an answer for firelax. Speaking of Gengar - the perishtrap set is cool because it's surprising, not sure if you want to rely on that surprise on a stally team like this though so you should consider the more reliable alternative Misdreavus with either the thunder set or a Cray/Attract set. Gengar has many other possibilities of being a "teamplayer" kind of mon, Thief would be an interesting idea which would make great use of the spikes/toxic abuse you should run with that core, it helps you wearing down an electric or a snorlax or whatever else it might hit. The Snorlax set (which you should run, it's good) gives you a couple of options too, i'd rather tend to a curselax because drumlax doesn't recieve enough support from that team to be as consistently threatening as curselax here. Fireblast Curse Frustration/Double-Edge/Bslam Rest looks like an effective set because it beats Skarm which you can't wear down with toxic/spikes, whereas the rocks tend to be on a timer if they get toxiced. Other alternatives would be Toxic Snorlax, which probably works pretty well on those kind of stally teams, lovely kiss curselax or 3 attacks rest lax. Again, your options are fairly broad there.
Ok so this was actually alot unstructured blabla so here is what i would do to the team based on the 3 core mons you started out with saving one of the rest. Again this is just one route you can go with the team, you can also decide to build it around drumzard, build it around trapping with gengar, etc, i decided to build with the dogs and skarm.
1. raikou stays the same, consider hp ice or even crunch instead of hp water, haven't tested the team so i don't know what'd work better, eventually change out tbolt for thunder
2. remove eggy, add a spiker, let's just pick forretress - Spikes, Rapid Spin, Explosion, Toxic is the set for now
3. make Suicune a roar set - Surf Toxic Roar Rest works for now
4. leave skarm as it is, i prefer Curse on it simply because you don't lose to last mon snorlax
5. change Gengar to a thief set - just an idea, but a fairly creative one that still has the surprise factor. Thief let's you wear down stuff more quickly, let's raikou prevent opposing raikou and snorlax from coming in all day, the other moveslots should probably be something like tbolt, ice punch, explosion/destiny bond. If this set doesn't work, change it to a Misdreavus.
6. remove zard, add snorlax, make it curse fire blast rest and a normal move of choice.

The team got pretty shredded, i know and it's a rather boring spikes team with a funky Gengar set now. Basically i only changed out 2 mons but the team should play alot more passively. If that is not the way you want to go, ignore everything above build the team differently, but when building a team try not to force too many things into one team, focus on less strategies and try to execute them properly. I used to have the same problem (and actually still have) that I come up with ideas while building and try to force them into my teams, they end up non standard but rather mediocre then and when I try to fix them I basically move closer and closer to standard builds. On general gsc teambuilding advise you could check out this article which i personally find a good read and resource and it's pretty compact too. I hope I could help, i realized that i basically built a different team instead of just giving you a rate, but you might get some advices out of my post.
I just wanna close off this rmt once and for all. I haven't used the team suggested by you or moxie in a couple of months due to me wanting to try other tactics than stall and actually get better at the tier. For any of the really new players this team is decent to start with, but try to branch out of the stall playstyle and try offense. This will help you in the long run team building wise and the way you play , this also helps you get better at the tier. If you still wanna come back to stall after then that's fine. Anyways, The only potential variations of this team I can see are starmie and or blissey over suicune. Starmie can provide an extra spinner and let forretress run an extra attack, or starmie can run 3 while although this isn't the best option I may still consider it. Blissey or miltank work the best out of the two variations. They provide heal bell support and growl although do be careful with these changes as they lack offensive prowess. T-tar over skarmory works as another lax check with it curse set but this makes you a bit weaker to eq lax so watch out for that if you make that change also mono rock coverage is mediocre. The last variations are cloyster over forretress and Missy over gar. Cloyster is a spinner with a bigger attack power then forretress but less longevity then forretress so it's a trade off. Missy over gar if you change the spiker so you can keep spikes up vs starmie reliably. While typing this I thought of one last variation umbreon can be used over cune it supports spikes with pursuit and gives you charm + toxic to support spikes well although it is setup bait like bliss. These are just the variations of the team I thought of off the top of my head you can try some of these out but remember that the team is okay as it is after the changes the two posts above make.
 

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