Resource ORAS NU Viability Rankings

[Mistrals]

Kinda just ignored this one for whatever reason, but is there really any reason to keep Dusclops ranked at all when it's a complete garbage mon that I doubt anyone competent would ever use seriously unless they really want to get 6-0ed by any set-up sweeper in existence or just having some mediocre defensive mon that just easily gets whittled down and just sits there and burns things for any form of damage to the opponent. It's just not a good mon, it's easily taken advantage of, it doesn't really do anything or stop anything, and it's not threatening in the slightest either offensively or defensively. Like what even is the best set you can do with this, RestTalk Toxic Seismic Toss/Night Shade? That sounds painfully garbage..

 

[ryan]

I'd rather see Primeape rise than drop. It's definitely better than anywhere in C. Primeape has a much stronger utility role than Sawk with U-turn and Encore, and while it is notably weaker, it's also considerably faster, tying with Haunter and Jynx and outspeeding stuff like Kangaskhan, Lilligant, Rotom-S, and broken ass Chatot. Vital Spirit is a cool ability that gives you the ability to pivot around Sleep Powder from Lilligant and Vileplume, and Defiant lets you beat Granbull and Defoggers. Calcs:

+2 252 Atk Choice Band Primeape Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Prinplup: 309-364 (93 - 109.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
+2 252 Atk Choice Band Primeape Gunk Shot vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Togetic: 362-426 (115.6 - 136.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Choice Band Primeape Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Pelipper: 406-478 (125.6 - 147.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Choice Band Primeape Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Mantine: 333-392 (99.7 - 117.3%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO (Stone Edge does more obviously)

The only problem with the Choice Band set is that you have to pick from Gunk Shot for Granbull, Stone Edge for most Defoggers, and Earthquake for Garbodor, but Granbull isn't very common anymore anyways. But you can still cater it to your team's needs. You also rarely have to predict around Xatu coming in on Close Combat vs. a coverage move because you can just click U-turn and get off a good chunk of damage.

The argument for Dusclops is pretty dumb. What sets up on Dusclops? Lilligant and Crodino I guess. I don't even know if Lilligant beats it 1 on 1. You probably even beat Musharna because Moonlight only has 8 PP. Everything else it can burn, including Sub Klinklang since you break the Sub with Seismic Toss. It's a cool spinblocker on Spikes-stacking teams because no spinner beats it one-on-one and gets off the spin. It definitely doesn't just get whittled down because the kind of team you'd use it on either has the support it needs to stick around or doesn't need it to stick around. Burning everything absolutely makes it threatening though.

 

[Ares]

(Volbeat)
And both of those, especially Murkrow, have no reason to be used over Liepard.

Volbeat's niche over Liepard is a slower U-turn, so bringing in your rain / sun sweeper safely (which Liepard can't do). As well as being a Fighting-type resist, which Liepard is not.

 

[Jaguar360]

And both of those, especially Murkrow, have no reason to be used over Liepard.

Murkrow also has a Taunt + Calm Mind set that works well.
Murkrow @ Eviolite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
- Taunt
- Calm Mind
- Roost
- Dark Pulse
It stallbreaks while still being solid against offense. It has this, at least for a worthwhile niche.

Its access to Roost and greater bulk also give it a niche over Liepard as a stopper for setup sweepers and it has Prankster Haze and Tailwind as well. D rank seems fine.

 

[ManOfMany]

???
I picked a calc on the physical side to show comparable bulk in that department and a special bulk to show comparable bulk on that side..



If it's running bulk up phaser, it has no room for said knock off and a pure bulk up sweeper set is outclassed by Gurdurr. If it's running knock off/circle throw then not only is knock off doing very little to most common psychics is doesn't really have mucch in it's favour over other phazers like Poliwrath and Zweilous.



And both of those, especially Murkrow, have no reason to be used over Liepard.

Throh isn’t really outclassed as a phazer by Poliwrath. If you want a bulky fighting-type phazer, you would use Poliwrath on teams that need a water or fire resist, and Throh if you don’t want to compound an electric or grass type weakness. It all depends on team synergy.

You won’t prove anything by saying one pokemon is 100% outclassed by another if they have a different typing, because it will never be the case.

Also, I never really understood the Dusclops hate. The thing is damn annoying for offensive teams, especially ones that rely on physical attackers, because it can burn or toxic anything. Night Shade also puts in decent work to break substitutes, and it also learns haze if you don't want special attackers setting up on it.

A Calm Mind Dusclops is also viable, especially considering the lack of phazing these days.

 

[Cogito]

You are kinda exaggerating how good plume is. Saying it walls mega audino is not true seen as it is known to carry fblast and if you're not offensive im p sure it sets up on you. Walling seismitoad is no great feat and sawk definitely 2hkoes with a boosting item. Also psychic types are v popular which is bad news for plume. Dont really know how to feel on its ranking but its certainly not the god you're making it out to be.

What reasonable player using Audino would stay in against Vileplume? Okay you have fire blast (which is a 3HKO on a bulky Vileplume), Vileplume puts you to sleep with sleep powder and can either use leech seed or giga drain to whittle your health down.

Psychic types are popular? Well then you switch out to a pokemon that remedies the situation.

Sawk 2HKOs only if effect spore doesn't activate. This is why all physical and priority users in the tier are threatened by Vileplume because they can be statused and then Vileplume can heal back the damage the next turn or at least be a suicide potential status creator.

Vileplume also has aromatherapy and synthesis. Which allows for greater longevity during the match and allows any teammates with a status effects to be healed.

Other possible tricks you can do is set up an infestation, leech seed, giga drain and sludge bomb. The pokemon is trapped and you can slowly whittle away its health with a combo of leech seed and infestation.

Vileplume has all the makings of a pokemon in the A rank I believe because of it's ability, typing, possible sets and movesets.

 

[Stoned M&M]

What reasonable player using Audino would stay in against Vileplume? Okay you have fire blast (which is a 3HKO on a bulky Vileplume), Vileplume puts you to sleep with sleep powder and can either use leech seed or giga drain to whittle your health down.

Psychic types are popular? Well then you switch out to a pokemon that remedies the situation.

Sawk 2HKOs only if effect spore doesn't activate. This is why all physical and priority users in the tier are threatened by Vileplume because they can be statused and then Vileplume can heal back the damage the next turn or at least be a suicide potential status creator.

Vileplume also has aromatherapy and synthesis. Which allows for greater longevity during the match and allows any teammates with a status effects to be healed.

Other possible tricks you can do is set up an infestation, leech seed, giga drain and sludge bomb. The pokemon is trapped and you can slowly whittle away its health with a combo of leech seed and infestation.

Vileplume has all the makings of a pokemon in the A rank I believe because of it's ability, typing, possible sets and movesets.

Fire Blast is used on offensive Mega Audino sets, so there's no way in hell Fire Blast is 3hkoing Vileplume. 252+ MegaDino does about 65% to standard physically defensive Plume, and you can even set up a CM on it making it an OHKO after rocks. Also saying you can use Leech Seed to help whittle MegaDino down doesn't make much sense, because giving up Effect Spore is no bueno. Even a CroDino can probably set up on you since you don't really do much to it, Audino can choose to stay non-mega'd and set up all it wants.

 

[Evan.]

What reasonable player using Audino would stay in against Vileplume? Okay you have fireblast, Vileplume puts you to sleep with sleep powder and can either use leech seed or giga drain to whittle your health down.

Psychic types are popular? Well then you switch out to a pokemon that remedies the situation.

Sawk 2HKOs only if effect spore doesn't activate. This is why all priority users in the tier are threatened by Vileplume because they can be statused and then Vileplume can heal back the damage the next turn.

Vileplume also has aromatherapy and synthesis. Which allows for greater longevity during the match and allows any teammates with a status effect to be healed. Did I forget to mention pokemon like Ferroseed, Quagsire and Haunter are nullified?

Last great move it could use is infestation stall. Set up an infestation, leech seed and then stall it out.

Vileplume has all the makings of a pokemon in the A rank I believe because of it's ability, typing, possible sets and movesets.

relying on a 30% chance to inflict status and adding on to that a 33% chance that the status is poison and you can't recover on it makes your argument really shaky at best.

Vileplume really cant afford to run aromatherapy or sleep powder in this meta, as it needs HP fire in order to not be set-up fodder for things like Klinklang or Mawile which are huge threats in the meta right now. I'm really not sure what you mean by mons being "nullified", Haunter straight up beats it, and Ferroseed just stacks spikes on it if it lacks hp fire. You say that Quagsire loses but Quagsire loses to Oddish for petes sake. Infestation and leech seed are both moves that aren't good at all on vileplume and I said why above.

Vileplume should stay where it is, the meta isn't very kind to it in the sense that all of the S-Rank mons beat it 1-on-1 and so do half of the A+ and most of the A-Rank mons. Actually looking at it I'd probably nom it for B solely based on the sheer number of high-ranked mons that beat it. Not completely sold on the nom but some more discussion wouldn't exactly be a bad thing either.

 

[DouglasFalcon]

I disagree in moving Lumineon in E rank
It's not inferior to Pelipper, only different in the role
In fact, while Pelipper is a slow bulky wall with cool resistances and reliable recovery, Lumineon is a pretty fast yet not frail at all pivot, able to switch into firespam and Scald with ease, Defog, and U-turn out. Also, there is something that definetly sets Lumineon apart from Pelipper and Mantine: a neutrality to Stealth Rock. I know that it shares this with Prinplup, but the two are nowhere near in role and stats.
To sum up i think that what really sets apart Lumineon from the other Water types in the tier is its ability to be a very decent choice in Volt-Turning teams thanks to its utility Defog and resistance to Fire. This doesn't mean that it should be ranked higher (even if I think C- would be fine for it), but just considered for teambuilding.

 

[Dentricos]

I guess I gotta be that guy who talks about low viability tiers again which I know annoys some people... sry about that XD

Armaldo D- ---> D+/C

Now that kabutops and steelix are gone this thing has a small bit of relevance again. It is not very good at what it does, but it does so many unique things at once. It has access to shit like stealth rock, rapid spin, swords dance, priority, bug stab, and swift swim.

Personally I find the most relevant set to be life orb, rapid spin (cause life orb rapid spin is stronk :p), xscizzor, sd, and knock off/aqua jet/rock blast.

Vibrava D- ---> C-

Before you talk about what makes this unviable like it's lack of offensive presense you have to think what ot brings to a team.

As someone who runs balance it seems I have trouble with magmortar pretty damn often. Running vibrava fixes this problem nicely. In adition to that it is by far the best mega-camel counter, a reliable defogger that resists hazards, blocks volt switchs and gains momentum through uturn which allows it to pair well with guts.

This thing switches in reliably to a few major threats like the rotoms (obv not fridge), magmortar, specs typh, rhydon, mega-camel, garbodor, muk, and passive mons.

When I look at D+ mons I see mostly things that I would never use on a team I want to be any bit relevant. I can fit vibrava in with top tier mons much better than shit like glaceon, masquerain, politoad, and simisear.

 

[Athicus]

I would like to nominate Simisear and Simisage to move to C- from D+ and D respectively. They're essentially NU's Infernapes - fast mixed attackers with set up moves in both departments. Nasty Plot sets are possible, particularly on Simisear, alongside Fire Blast, Focus Blast, and either Substitute or Grass Knot. Alternatively, one can use Hone Claws and three physical moves, including the possibility of Knock Off. It's hard to tell what a Simi- is running until they show the first move.
Though I don't personally recommend it, the monkeys are also capable of going mixed with Work Up, or Choice Scarf.
Simisear in particular can also provide utility and support, as it has access to WoW and Taunt, two staples of Infernape's defensive sets, though it lacks recovery outside of Rest.

 

[SlickHippo99]

I would like to nominate Simisear and Simisage to move to C- from D+ and D respectively. They're essentially NU's Infernapes - fast mixed attackers with set up moves in both departments. Nasty Plot sets are possible, particularly on Simisear, alongside Fire Blast, Focus Blast, and either Substitute or Grass Knot. Alternatively, one can use Hone Claws and three physical moves, including the possibility of Knock Off. It's hard to tell what a Simi- is running until they show the first move.
Though I don't personally recommend it, the monkeys are also capable of going mixed with Work Up, or Choice Scarf.
Simisear in particular can also provide utility and support, as it has access to WoW and Taunt, two staples of Infernape's defensive sets, though it lacks recovery outside of Rest.

I can maybe agree with Simisear moving up, but not Simisage. Hone Claws sounds like doodoo to run on either of them because they would likely have to set up two in order to have the potential to sweep, but neither of them really have the bulk to be able to. In addition, Vileplume, Lilligant, and Exeggutor (and I guess special Cacturne) outpower it as special Grass attackers, while Leafeon, Torterra, and physical Cacturne outdo it as physical Grass attackers. Lilligant especially outclasses it; it can set up better with Quiver Dance and it can more effectively run scarf. Cacturne and Leafeon can double their attack in a single turn with Swords Dance and have the power (and bulk in Leafeon's case) to force switches and afford setup opportunities and proceed to sweep teams. Additionally, many of the aforementioned mons have more utility, be it with Sleep Powder, Stealth Rock, Aromatherapy, or reliable healing. Most of these mons also pack more power, and in some cases a handy secondary STAB. I guess going mixed is nice, but really, what threats does that allow Simisage to deal with that the above mons can't? Superpower isn't all that great since it only really helps you with Mawile, Pawniard, Klinklang (who can take a Superpower, set up a Shift Gear, and OHKO next turn anyway), and Ferroseed since there are zero other relevant steel types; plus many of the other Grasses have ways of dealing with steels too (HP Fire, Earthquake, and Drain Punch). Knock Off is cool, but Leafeon gets it too and Cacturne has a stronger dark move that gets STAB in Sucker Punch, albeit with less utility. So unless you REALLY need a mixed grass type that has access to Knock Off and can outspeed base 100s (the only relevant ones are Typhlosion and Miltank), I see very little reason to use Simisage. Simisage stays in D.

TL;DR: Simisage is outclassed in nearly every role it tries to fill by other Grass types in the tier, but Simisear can move up I guess.

 

[ryan]

Simisage isn't outclassed as an offensive Grass-type because Sceptile is gone. We don't have any other fast offensive Grass-types. Outspeeding Typhlosion is huge because it means that Typhlosion can't come in for free against it and start clicking Eruption. Keeping the most threatening Pokemon in the tier at bay is huge. I don't know if it's worth going anywhere in C or not, but it's far better than you give it credit for.

Simisear, on the other hand, is a slower Pyroar without secondary STAB and with Focus Blast and Nasty Plot. Considering how prepared people are for offensive Fire-types, I can't see Simisear being good at all, or at least not good enough to warrant a slot over Typhlosion or Pyroar.

 

[Lolazo]

Why use simisear instead of typhlosion, m-camerupt, pyroar, magmortar, ninetales, flareon, heatmor, pignite, monferno, rapidash, even SS torkoal cause have spin lol, NP + focus blast isn't a reason because fight/fire coverage sucks in NU and Ninetales gets energy ball with better coverage and has bulk+flash fire

 

[Ares]

Why use simisear instead of typhlosion, m-camerupt, pyroar, magmortar, ninetales, flareon, heatmor, pignite, monferno, rapidash, even SS torkoal cause have spin lol, NP + focus blast isn't a reason because fight/fire coverage sucks in NU and Ninetales gets energy ball with better coverage and has bulk+flash fire

rofl, I think you might have gone a bit over the top there by just listing all the fire types you see. Simisear is actually pretty decent and fills the role of a Nasty Plot sweeper, which only really faces competition from Ninetales. Listing every Fire-type in the tier (some of which are actually worse) who fill different roles isn't a good way to justify not moving something up. Simisear actually hits harder than Ninetales and has Grass Knot to hit Water-types as well as having Blaze to hit super hard at the end of its life. Ninetales on the other hand has Flash Fire which is why it is ranked so high compared to Simisear.

Simisear, on the other hand, is a slower Pyroar without secondary STAB and with Focus Blast and Nasty Plot. Considering how prepared people are for offensive Fire-types, I can't see Simisear being good at all, or at least not good enough to warrant a slot over Typhlosion or Pyroar.

This is more of a reason to not move Simisear up past C-, not being able to hit incredibly hard immediately is a reason to not use your Fire-type slot up. Unless your team needs a Nasty Plot sweeper.

 

[HJAD]

time for some mons i feel are worthy of a rise:

Big Bear of Destruction: Ursaring C =====> C+ or B-

This thing is absolutely ridiculously otherworldly powerful. No physical wall in the tier can take a +2 Guts Boosted Facade or any of its coverage moves and live to tell the tail. Of course, we have zangoose here, which completely outclasses Ursarings Quick Feet set, but the Guts set is just something else. Im just gonna gives some calcs, and let that do the talking :
+1 252+ Atk Guts Ursaring Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mawile: 225-266 (74 - 87.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ Atk Guts Ursaring Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mawile: 258-304 (84.8 - 100%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Guts Ursaring Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Uxie: 226-267 (63.8 - 75.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Guts Ursaring Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Uxie: 450-531 (127.1 - 150%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Guts Ursaring Facade (140 BP) vs. 200 HP / 252+ Def Seismitoad: 325-384 (81 - 95.7%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Guts Ursaring Facade (140 BP) vs. 200 HP / 252+ Def Seismitoad: 651-766 (162.3 - 191%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252+ Atk Guts Ursaring Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Rhydon: 214-252 (51.6 - 60.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Guts Ursaring Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Rhydon: 490-578 (118.3 - 139.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252+ Atk Guts Ursaring Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Arceus: 477-562 (107.4 - 126.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
^just for show; has 0 relevance but demostrates how utterly ridiculous this things damage output is.

Im guessing you can tell from these calcs, this thing has 0 safe switch ins. More so than Zangoose as they often dont have room to carry SD on their set, but it allows Ursaring to destroy the entire tier. Assuming Ursaring carries the Guts SD Facade CC and Crunch set, the only switch in left is Carbink:
+2 252+ Atk Guts Ursaring Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Carbink: 232-274 (76.3 - 90.1%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Of course, Ursaring is very easily checked, stalled down by protect and moves like Fake out to the point where it is a liability against Hyper Offense; but it can use its decent bulk to tank a decently powerful hit, and retaliate with an OHKO, something Zangoose could only dream about:
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Lilligant Giga Drain vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Ursaring: 269-317 (83.5 - 98.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after toxic damage
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Mismagius Dazzling Gleam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Ursaring: 248-292 (77 - 90.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after toxic damage
252 SpA Choice Specs Rotom Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Ursaring: 225-265 (69.8 - 82.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after toxic damage

Something with 0 switch ins shouldnt be in the depths of C rank, at least C+ or even B- is adequate.
Just a reminder Ursaring has the same speed as Pangoro, thats doing pretty decent right now i heard.
yeah yeah its difficult to get a free SD but the constant 50/50 is worth it, especially if you predict and it works out in your favour :-]

Claydol B=====> B+ or A-
This thing should be higher than it is right now. What this is is a reliable spinner, that takes minimal damage from hazards (the maximum being 6%) and manages to settup stealth rock as well. The immunity to spikes is really nice and allows it to come in on the spiker and spin on its face rather than fear the toxic spikes or fear the damage from regular spikes if it needs to counter something else on the opponents team. Having the Ground Type sub Typing is a real boom as it gives it free switch ins on most spikers and toxic spikers in the tier (im looking at Garbodor mainly.) To boot, it has a decent Dual Stab in Earth Power and Psychic as well as Signal Beam to lure those pesky Malamars for stall teams. At the moment, its stalls best hazard control imo besides probably Xatu but thats not as reliable at spinning as this, and the likes of Cryogonal and Sandslash can be abused due to their weakness' (weak physical defense and not great general bulk respecitively) and as a result Claydol is allowed to shine through. It functions similarly to Prinplup in the fact it spins hazards away then sets them up itself, which is handy on a team that needs spin and not defog. Only problem i can find with using Claydol atm is that its typing clashes with big threats in the tier that you might want to use as well, like Mesprit, Musharna, Uxie and Malamar.
Overall however, this is probably NU's most effective rapid spinning option and its rank should reflect this.

 

[Punchshroom]

time for some mons i feel are worthy of a rise:

View attachment 38913Big Bear of Destruction: Ursaring C =====> C+ or B-

This thing is absolutely ridiculously otherworldly powerful. No physical wall in the tier can take a +2 Guts Boosted Facade or any of its coverage moves and live to tell the tail. Of course, we have zangoose here, which completely outclasses Ursarings Quick Feet set, but the Guts set is just something else.

Whoa whoa whoa... already you're starting out on the wrong foot. To straighten things out, Zangoose completely outclasses the Guts set, but Quick Feet Ursaring is not outclassed. This is because Zangoose can kill most of the things Guts Ursaring kills without any more trouble, and even more targets as well (Samurott, Sawk, Mesprit, etc.); whereas Quick Feet Ursaring hits a speed tier Zangoose doesn't hit, aka being faster than positive 106s (assuming Jolly Ursa).

Im just gonna gives some calcs, and let that do the talking :
+1 252+ Atk Guts Ursaring Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mawile: 225-266 (74 - 87.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ Atk Guts Ursaring Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mawile: 258-304 (84.8 - 100%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Guts Ursaring Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Uxie: 226-267 (63.8 - 75.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Guts Ursaring Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Uxie: 450-531 (127.1 - 150%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Guts Ursaring Facade (140 BP) vs. 200 HP / 252+ Def Seismitoad: 325-384 (81 - 95.7%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Guts Ursaring Facade (140 BP) vs. 200 HP / 252+ Def Seismitoad: 651-766 (162.3 - 191%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252+ Atk Guts Ursaring Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Rhydon: 214-252 (51.6 - 60.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Guts Ursaring Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Rhydon: 490-578 (118.3 - 139.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252+ Atk Guts Ursaring Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Arceus: 477-562 (107.4 - 126.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
^just for show; has 0 relevance but demostrates how utterly ridiculous this things damage output is.

Im guessing you can tell from these calcs, this thing has 0 safe switch ins. More so than Zangoose as they often dont have room to carry SD on their set, but it allows Ursaring to destroy the entire tier. Assuming Ursaring carries the Guts SD Facade CC and Crunch set, the only switch in left is Carbink:
+2 252+ Atk Guts Ursaring Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Carbink: 232-274 (76.3 - 90.1%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

You can post all the fancy calcs you want, but I can easily post a wall of Zangoose calcs and show you results that are just as impressive, and even more calcs on things Ursaring cannot hope to KO.

252+ Atk Toxic Boost Zangoose Facade (140 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Samurott: 393-463 (118.7 - 139.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Toxic Boost Zangoose Facade (140 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Sawk: 435-513 (149.4 - 176.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Toxic Boost Zangoose Facade (140 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mesprit: 331-390 (109.6 - 129.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Toxic Boost Zangoose Facade (140 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ludicolo: 421-496 (139.8 - 164.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Going Jolly lets u still do ~99% minimum to Mesprit, so even that ain't too big of a loss.

Of course, Ursaring is very easily checked, stalled down by protect and moves like Fake out to the point where it is a liability against Hyper Offense; but it can use its decent bulk to tank a decently powerful hit, and retaliate with an OHKO, something Zangoose could only dream about:
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Lilligant Giga Drain vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Ursaring: 269-317 (83.5 - 98.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after toxic damage
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Mismagius Dazzling Gleam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Ursaring: 248-292 (77 - 90.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after toxic damage
252 SpA Choice Specs Rotom Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Ursaring: 225-265 (69.8 - 82.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after toxic damage

Assuming you're bringing a fresh Ursaring to "check" these Pokemon: this means Ursaring has yet to activate its Orb, and thus will not do much damage in return (your strongest neutral attack pre-Orb would be Close Combat) against most targets.

252+ Atk Ursaring Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Lilligant: 182-215 (64.5 - 76.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Ursaring Crunch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Colbur Berry Mismagius: 144-170 (55.1 - 65.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

As for Rotom, it shouldn't be too farfetch'd to say it'd rather be Volt Switching than trying to take on a fresh Ursaring with TBolt. If your Ursa is already boosted, then it will likely have already taken some damage, then the extra bulk over Zangoose becomes rather meaningless. If you're going to use Ghosts that Zangoose cannot Quick Attack as examples, keep in mind that Quick Feet Ursaring can smash these Ghosts without any trouble at all.

Something with 0 switch ins shouldnt be in the depths of C rank, at least C+ or even B- is adequate.
Just a reminder Ursaring has the same speed as Pangoro, thats doing pretty decent right now i heard.
yeah yeah its difficult to get a free SD but the constant 50/50 is worth it, especially if you predict and it works out in your favour :-]

Comparing Ursaring with Pangoro is just so....I don't even know where to start. Panda's success comes from its super strong STAB combo that yields basically no risk to itself (unlike Ursaring which needs status to make Facade work), and the fact that it isn't worn down; quite the opposite actually due to Drain Punch. The 'force switches to get SD' thing would also apply to Zangoose. In short, Ursaring would've made a pretty potent wallbreaker if it weren't for the fact that Zangoose exists and is not only just as strong, but also has speed, Knock Off, and priority on its side. This leaves Ursaring's sole niche as a Quick Feet sweeper, combining Swellow's speed with Zangoose's coverage in exchange for a less powerful (but still strong) Facade.

Claydol B=====> B+ or A-
This thing should be higher than it is right now. What this is is a reliable spinner, that takes minimal damage from hazards (the maximum being 6%) and manages to settup stealth rock as well. The immunity to spikes is really nice and allows it to come in on the spiker and spin on its face rather than fear the toxic spikes or fear the damage from regular spikes if it needs to counter something else on the opponents team. Having the Ground Type sub Typing is a real boom as it gives it free switch ins on most spikers and toxic spikers in the tier (im looking at Garbodor mainly.) To boot, it has a decent Dual Stab in Earth Power and Psychic as well as Signal Beam to lure those pesky Malamars for stall teams. At the moment, its stalls best hazard control imo besides probably Xatu but thats not as reliable at spinning as this, and the likes of Cryogonal and Sandslash can be abused due to their weakness' (weak physical defense and not great general bulk respecitively) and as a result Claydol is allowed to shine through. It functions similarly to Prinplup in the fact it spins hazards away then sets them up itself, which is handy on a team that needs spin and not defog. Only problem i can find with using Claydol atm is that its typing clashes with big threats in the tier that you might want to use as well, like Mesprit, Musharna, Uxie and Malamar.
Overall however, this is probably NU's most effective rapid spinning option and its rank should reflect this.

Not opposed to some sort of raise, but just wanna point out the bolded bits. If Cryo and Sandslash have issues with their weaknesses, then Claydol is the most vulnerable of the three. Its typing leaves it hit for super effective damage by...just about 90% (or more) of the whole tier, because its weaknesses are just that common and widespread, which heavily undermines its 'general bulk'. In fact the general bulk thing isn't really a point in Claydol's favor as Cryo's special bulk and Sandslash's physical bulk let them set up safely against certain opponents; Cryogonal has a pretty safe spinning opportunity against most special attackers (usually Water-types and Grass-types), while Sandslash has an easier time spinning against physical attackers such as Scyther, Liepard, Hariyama, Tauros, and Kangaskhan.

That said, points for Claydol include its wide offensive movepool, giving it arguably the best offensive presence amongst the NU spinners (which, now that I look at it, isn't really saying much of our spinners :/), meaning it can fend for itself better than other spinners and be less of a liability for offensive teammates. It also doesn't usually clash typings from what I've seen, at least not more so than other spinners. The most common Claydol partner I've seen is Scyther, but things like Typhlosion, Sneasel, Sturdy Sawk, Rotom-S, Vivillon, etc. (things that really benefit from hazard removal) don't clash typings at all with Claydol; hell, some benefit defensively or even offensively. Cryo, on the other hand, does clash typings and weaknesses somewhat with most of the aforementioned Pokemon, while Sandslash doesn't have the coverage to be as useful to offensive / balance teams as it wants to be. I don't really know how beneficial Claydol is on stall given that Cryogonal or even Sandslash would seem to help stall more, but I digress.

Ursaring is fine where it as in C. I wouldn't mind a rise for Claydol to B+ given its usefulness on most offensive / balance teams nowadays.

 

[Disjunction]

So I was taking a look over the list and I think our A- rank is a little inflated right now. There are several Pokemon that could do with a little drop or bump, and I'd like to see what everyone else thinks. I'm going to paraphrase for a lot of these because for a long list of nominations, I think a lot of people just skim through long blocks of text anyways.

A- --> B+/B
I feel as if Liepard has been dethroned as the tier's premiere offensive Dark-type. With Sneasel's superior bulk (with Eviolite), speed, secondary STAB, and superior set-up option with Swords Dance (in comparison to Liepard's very shaky SubNP set), Sneasel is a much more efficient option for an offensive Dark-type. Liepard certainly still sets itself apart from Sneasel with Prankster and U-turn, but I don't feel as if this is enough to warrant a position in A-.

A- --> B+
I know some people who will vehemently defend this Pokemon after this nomination, but I just don't feel as if Ninetales is as effective as it once was. It's weak without set up, loses to Mega Camerupt, and can be threatened by the new Charcoal Earthquake Typhlosion (and Typhlosion was the only Fire-type it checked in the first place.) It faces serious competition from Typhlosion as a Flash Fire Pokemon, as they both sport the same tier tier but with drastically different attacking stats. It's a fairly good sweeper once it sets up, but it struggles to find set-up opportunities and is a bit too niche of a Pokemon to warrant A-.

A- --> B+/B
I know Can-Eh-Dian brought this up already, so I'm just throwing my support behind him. Weezing is a great physical wall and certainly has its merits in being able to stop the likes of Klinklang, Leafeon, and Kangaskhan, among others. However, it is extremely passive and predictable. While it is a hard stop to some, it is an easy switch in for the likes of a long list of bulky special threats, such as Mesprit, Mismagius, and Mega Camerupt. With a lack of recovery, predictable move set, and lack of offensive pressure, I feel as if Weezing's impact on the tier is not notable enough to rank him so high.

A- --> A
I think one of the biggest threats to prepare for in the tier right now are bulky CM Psychic-types. Xatu, Uxie, and especially Musharna are some of the most threatening Pokemon to face off against simply because of their ability to tank several hits while setting up. Musharna is arguably the toughest to take on because of its great bulk and wide range of options it has for the last move slot. Heal Bell, Baton Pass, Signal Beam, and even Energy Ball for Quagsire are all options. I think Musharna's rank should reflect the impact it has on the meta and, right now, it is a threat every team should be prepared for.

A- --> A
Similarly, I feel as if Sawk is too low for the impact it has on NU. This is one of our strongest wall breakers in the tier, with the coverage to beat the majority of its checks and counters. Ice Punch, Earthquake, Knock Off, and Zen Headbutt beat back its relevant answers outside of Musharna. It has a niche versus Offense with Sturdy and it has a lot of fun versus slower teams (and teams have become a fair bit slower since the March shifts.) I'd love to hear some other opinions on Sawk, though!

 

[The Goomy]

So I was taking a look over the list and I think our A- rank is a little inflated right now. There are several Pokemon that could do with a little drop or bump, and I'd like to see what everyone else thinks. I'm going to paraphrase for a lot of these because for a long list of nominations, I think a lot of people just skim through long blocks of text anyways.

A- --> B+/B
I feel as if Liepard has been dethroned as the tier's premiere offensive Dark-type. With Sneasel's superior bulk (with Eviolite), speed, secondary STAB, and superior set-up option with Swords Dance (in comparison to Liepard's very shaky SubNP set), Sneasel is a much more efficient option for an offensive Dark-type. Liepard certainly still sets itself apart from Sneasel with Prankster and U-turn, but I don't feel as if this is enough to warrant a position in A-.

A- --> B+
I know some people who will vehemently defend this Pokemon after this nomination, but I just don't feel as if Ninetales is as effective as it once was. It's weak without set up, loses to Mega Camerupt, and can be threatened by the new Charcoal Earthquake Typhlosion (and Typhlosion was the only Fire-type it checked in the first place.) It faces serious competition from Typhlosion as a Flash Fire Pokemon, as they both sport the same tier tier but with drastically different attacking stats. It's a fairly good sweeper once it sets up, but it struggles to find set-up opportunities and is a bit too niche of a Pokemon to warrant A-.

A- --> B+/B
I know Can-Eh-Dian brought this up already, so I'm just throwing my support behind him. Weezing is a great physical wall and certainly has its merits in being able to stop the likes of Klinklang, Leafeon, and Kangaskhan, among others. However, it is extremely passive and predictable. While it is a hard stop to some, it is an easy switch in for the likes of a long list of bulky special threats, such as Mesprit, Mismagius, and Mega Camerupt. With a lack of recovery, predictable move set, and lack of offensive pressure, I feel as if Weezing's impact on the tier is not notable enough to rank him so high.

A- --> A
I think one of the biggest threats to prepare for in the tier right now are bulky CM Psychic-types. Xatu, Uxie, and especially Musharna are some of the most threatening Pokemon to face off against simply because of their ability to tank several hits while setting up. Musharna is arguably the toughest to take on because of its great bulk and wide range of options it has for the last move slot. Heal Bell, Baton Pass, Signal Beam, and even Energy Ball for Quagsire are all options. I think Musharna's rank should reflect the impact it has on the meta and, right now, it is a threat every team should be prepared for.

A- --> A
Similarly, I feel as if Sawk is too low for the impact it has on NU. This is one of our strongest wall breakers in the tier, with the coverage to beat the majority of its checks and counters. Ice Punch, Earthquake, Knock Off, and Zen Headbutt beat back its relevant answers outside of Musharna. It has a niche versus Offense with Sturdy and it has a lot of fun versus slower teams (and teams have become a fair bit slower since the March shifts.) I'd love to hear some other opinions on Sawk, though!

Agree with all of these except Ninetales.

I still feel like it's an effective NP user, and the set that's most effective in the current metagame is actually Balloon with HP Water+Energy Ball.

Hariyama is easy to wear down regardless, and Balloon gives you an amazing switch in to both Camerupt and Typh.

Although it's definitely not quite as good as it once was, I still feel like it's utility vs. more fat teams as well as it's sweeping potential makes A- a good home for it.

 

[HJAD]

Just gonna explain myself a little bit.

Whoa whoa whoa... already you're starting out on the wrong foot. To straighten things out, Zangoose completely outclasses the Guts set, but Quick Feet Ursaring is not outclassed. This is because Zangoose can kill most of the things Guts Ursaring kills without any more trouble, and even more targets as well (Samurott, Sawk, Mesprit, etc.); whereas Quick Feet Ursaring hits a speed tier Zangoose doesn't hit, aka being faster than positive 106s (assuming Jolly Ursa).

The reason why Zangoose doesnt completely outclass the Ursaring guts set is due to the damage output it can do on resisted hits, this lessens the need for prediction and you can make more middle ground plays w/ little drawback.
Another reason why Ursaring isnt outclassed is due to its bulk. Play it down all you like but it means it can take more hits that a zangoose wouldnt normally be able to from priority and faster, weaker targets, take the hit, and retaliate with the ohko.
Finally, Ursaring isnt outclassed by toxic boost Zangoose because of another reason; Ursa can come in on status moves and recieve minimal punishment, compare this to zangoose; i cant switch it in a predicted will-o and get a free facade off due to the problems around toxic boost only boosting when toxic'd. Guts has no such limitations and can hit just as hard whether burned, toxic'd or even para'd if your life depended on it. This niche might be small, but ultimately can sway momentum in games.

I also think that the quick feet set is the outclassed one, maybe not by Zangoose, which is my bad for not making that clear, but definately by swellow, which doesnt just hit a mere 106 base speed, but a full 120, which is enough for the entire relevant metagame.
252 Atk Ursaring Facade (140 BP) vs. 120 HP / 136 Def Alomomola: 235-277 (46.9 - 55.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Guts Swellow Facade (140 BP) vs. 120 HP / 136 Def Alomomola: 264-312 (52.6 - 62.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
As you can see, swellow is both faster and more powerful than a quick feet ursa, and with bulk factoring a little when we are comparing pokemon that clean up in the late game, quick feet set is imo outclassed

You can post all the fancy calcs you want, but I can easily post a wall of Zangoose calcs and show you results that are just as impressive, and even more calcs on things Ursaring cannot hope to KO.

Ursa ohkoes every wall in the metagame bar 1 at +2, its not similar to zangoose where it comes in on something slower and spam its powerful facade or coverage moves. Ursa's selling point is that it can 2HKO even on a resist, for example, Mawile and Rhydon, where Zangoose can only dream of doing such, if your going for the jolly set that is.
+1 252+ Atk Guts Ursaring Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mawile: 225-266 (74 - 87.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Guts Ursaring Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Rhydon: 214-252 (51.6 - 60.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

This plays also into the team support function of Ursa, where it can break physical walls that wall the less strong mons like Scyther or Sawk or even Zangoose. It purely makes it easier for these mons to sweep.

Assuming you're bringing a fresh Ursaring to "check" these Pokemon: this means Ursaring has yet to activate its Orb, and thus will not do much damage in return (your strongest neutral attack pre-Orb would be Close Combat) against most targets.

252+ Atk Ursaring Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Lilligant: 182-215 (64.5 - 76.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Ursaring Crunch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Colbur Berry Mismagius: 144-170 (55.1 - 65.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

As for Rotom, it shouldn't be too farfetch'd to say it'd rather be Volt Switching than trying to take on a fresh Ursaring with TBolt. If your Ursa is already boosted, then it will likely have already taken some damage, then the extra bulk over Zangoose becomes rather meaningless. If you're going to use Ghosts that Zangoose cannot Quick Attack as examples, keep in mind that Quick Feet Ursaring can smash these Ghosts without any trouble at all.

of course, yeah, pre-orb ursa is weak, but the essence of ursa is to bring it in on mon x, predict the switch to a wall and swords dance, and bop said wall with (coverage/facade) move. Ursa does do worse versus a Hyper Offense match up due to its weakness pre-orb and lack of speed but it isnt useless, especially if the orb was activated before.

And yeah, quick feet ursa does better vs ghosts than guts since it doesnt need to take damage.

Comparing Ursaring with Pangoro is just so....I don't even know where to start. Panda's success comes from its super strong STAB combo that yields basically no risk to itself (unlike Ursaring which needs status to make Facade work), and the fact that it isn't worn down; quite the opposite actually due to Drain Punch. The 'force switches to get SD' thing would also apply to Zangoose. In short, Ursaring would've made a pretty potent wallbreaker if it weren't for the fact that Zangoose exists and is not only just as strong, but also has speed, Knock Off, and priority on its side. This leaves Ursaring's sole niche as a Quick Feet sweeper, combining Swellow's speed with Zangoose's coverage in exchange for a less powerful (but still strong) Facade.

I disagree with the fact that i cant compare Ursaring to Pangoro. I mean, there is the obvious, one is ravaging upper tiers and the other is stuck in the realms of PU, but they do seem ominously similar if you look at the Guts Ursa and Panda together. There stats are almost identical, they have the same speed and almost the same attack, similar bulk. Their coverage is similar to the extent that both can hit every wall in the game for at least neutral damage and both dont fare well vs H.O matchups and prefer stall matchups. The differences are obvious and what makes one PU and the other viable in UU. one has an insanely good dual stab, the other doesnt. One is worn down really really easily, the other isnt. One needs an Orb which essentially kills itself in order to be powerful, and the other doesnt. I do agree with the fact that Ursaring is OK with quick feet for the reason you stated, combining the two of swellow and zangoose in a hybrid like form however i feel like the quick feet set doesn't clean as well as swellow, which is the reason you would put either on a team. Not to mention swellow has priority and u-turn if the moment isnt quite right. Ursa's stats definately lean towards a stall breaker set with SD and guts whereas Zangoose and Swellow are more suited to cleaning in the late game.

Not opposed to some sort of raise, but just wanna point out the bolded bits. If Cryo and Sandslash have issues with their weaknesses, then Claydol is the most vulnerable of the three. Its typing leaves it hit for super effective damage by...just about 90% (or more) of the whole tier, because its weaknesses are just that common and widespread, which heavily undermines its 'general bulk'. In fact the general bulk thing isn't really a point in Claydol's favor as Cryo's special bulk and Sandslash's physical bulk let them set up safely against certain opponents; Cryogonal has a pretty safe spinning opportunity against most special attackers (usually Water-types and Grass-types), while Sandslash has an easier time spinning against physical attackers such as Scyther, Liepard, Hariyama, Tauros, and Kangaskhan.

That said, points for Claydol include its wide offensive movepool, giving it arguably the best offensive presence amongst the NU spinners (which, now that I look at it, isn't really saying much of our spinners :/), meaning it can fend for itself better than other spinners and be less of a liability for offensive teammates. It also doesn't usually clash typings from what I've seen, at least not more so than other spinners. The most common Claydol partner I've seen is Scyther, but things like Typhlosion, Sneasel, Sturdy Sawk, Rotom-S, Vivillon, etc. (things that really benefit from hazard removal) don't clash typings at all with Claydol; hell, some benefit defensively or even offensively. Cryo, on the other hand, does clash typings and weaknesses somewhat with most of the aforementioned Pokemon, while Sandslash doesn't have the coverage to be as useful to offensive / balance teams as it wants to be. I don't really know how beneficial Claydol is on stall given that Cryogonal or even Sandslash would seem to help stall more, but I digress.

Ursaring is fine where it as in C. I wouldn't mind a rise for Claydol to B+ given its usefulness on most offensive / balance teams nowadays.

Claydol is a decent option to spinning over Sandslash or Cryogonal if you dont need their respective niches. + its cool :]

 

[shiloh]

A- --> B+/B
I feel as if Liepard has been dethroned as the tier's premiere offensive Dark-type. With Sneasel's superior bulk (with Eviolite), speed, secondary STAB, and superior set-up option with Swords Dance (in comparison to Liepard's very shaky SubNP set), Sneasel is a much more efficient option for an offensive Dark-type. Liepard certainly still sets itself apart from Sneasel with Prankster and U-turn, but I don't feel as if this is enough to warrant a position in A-.

I think that you are greatly underselling how much utility Liepard has. While Sneasel may outclass it as an all out attacker, or a Set-Up sweeper, I think Liepard's utility is what makes it an A- rank pokemon. Liepard is meant to provide utility through Encore preventing Set-Up, U-Turn to gain momentum, and Thunder Wave to act as a secondary stop to sweepers. It also provides support to Rain and Sun teams with Prankster Sunny Day and Rain Dance.

 

[Aasgier]

Just gonna explain myself a little bit.

The reason why Zangoose doesnt completely outclass the Ursaring guts set is due to the damage output it can do on resisted hits, this lessens the need for prediction and you can make more middle ground plays w/ little drawback.
Another reason why Ursaring isnt outclassed is due to its bulk. Play it down all you like but it means it can take more hits that a zangoose wouldnt normally be able to from priority and faster, weaker targets, take the hit, and retaliate with the ohko.
Finally, Ursaring isnt outclassed by toxic boost Zangoose because of another reason; Ursa can come in on status moves and recieve minimal punishment, compare this to zangoose; i cant switch it in a predicted will-o and get a free facade off due to the problems around toxic boost only boosting when toxic'd. Guts has no such limitations and can hit just as hard whether burned, toxic'd or even para'd if your life depended on it. This niche might be small, but ultimately can sway momentum in games.

I also think that the quick feet set is the outclassed one, maybe not by Zangoose, which is my bad for not making that clear, but definately by swellow, which doesnt just hit a mere 106 base speed, but a full 120, which is enough for the entire relevant metagame.
252 Atk Ursaring Facade (140 BP) vs. 120 HP / 136 Def Alomomola: 235-277 (46.9 - 55.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Guts Swellow Facade (140 BP) vs. 120 HP / 136 Def Alomomola: 264-312 (52.6 - 62.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
As you can see, swellow is both faster and more powerful than a quick feet ursa, and with bulk factoring a little when we are comparing pokemon that clean up in the late game, quick feet set is imo outclassed

Yeah, but Swellow cannot scratch Rock- or Steel-types, while Zangoose can whack them with Close Combat and Knock Off alike.
Zangoose has the coverage of Ursaring but a much better speed tier. And both are frail as heck anyway.

Also, Swellow can't really touch Archeops either and has to U-Turn against it, which is the only notable threat in between 106 and 125 speed in NU. Speed isn't always that relevant.

Edit: Oh wait, Sneasel.
Various less relevant threats (Raichu, Tauros, Zebstrika, etc) also exist but it's fairly obvious Swellow isn't really suited to deal with these at any rate.

Ursa ohkoes every wall in the metagame bar 1 at +2, its not similar to zangoose where it comes in on something slower and spam its powerful facade or coverage moves. Ursa's selling point is that it can 2HKO even on a resist, for example, Mawile and Rhydon, where Zangoose can only dream of doing such, if your going for the jolly set that is.
+1 252+ Atk Guts Ursaring Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mawile: 225-266 (74 - 87.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Guts Ursaring Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Rhydon: 214-252 (51.6 - 60.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

This only works against stall teams. Against offense, Guts Ursaring is dead if it attempts to SD.

This plays also into the team support function of Ursa, where it can break physical walls that wall the less strong mons like Scyther or Sawk or even Zangoose. It purely makes it easier for these mons to sweep.

It is only barely weaker than Zangoose. Which relevant wall does Ursaring break that Zangoose cannot?

of course, yeah, pre-orb ursa is weak, but the essence of ursa is to bring it in on mon x, predict the switch to a wall and swords dance, and bop said wall with (coverage/facade) move. Ursa does do worse versus a Hyper Offense match up due to its weakness pre-orb and lack of speed but it isnt useless, especially if the orb was activated before.

Against Hyper Offense Guts Ursaring kinda blows. It may get a kill but I really don't see it getting more than one. Even against balanced teams it can't do much, though I admit one has to be careful with bringing in their wall as long as Ursaring is alive.

Claydol is a decent option to spinning over Sandslash or Cryogonal if you dont need their respective niches. + its cool :]

I nominate Ledian for S-rank because it's cute. gg.
Gross exaggeration but you get my point.

 

[Fling]

Can we talk about dropping archeops from S ? Like its still a great mon but it doesn't really pair as well up with other mons like it did when heliolisk was here. Also one of the main reasons it rose was due to viri and lisk. The meta has gone through quite a big change and with sneasel being incredibly popular atm I just dont think its S rank worthy.

 

[Ares]

Can we talk about dropping archeops from S ? Like its still a great mon but it doesn't really pair as well up with other mons like it did when heliolisk was here. Also one of the main reasons it rose was due to viri and lisk. The meta has gone through quite a big change and with sneasel being incredibly popular atm I just dont think its S rank worthy.

Archeops actually rose to S rank after Virizion and Heliolisk left the tier. I think you'll need to provide more reasoning on wether or not to drop it then Sneasel is popular.

 

[ryan]

I'll agree to drop archeops when we have more than three good flying resists in NU