Resource Little Cup UU Viability Rankings

[Anthiese]

proposing flabebe/shelmet for at least C, better than unranked.

shelmet - fighting resist, good physical and overall bulk (50/85/65), spikes, recover mandatory, and other options like bug buzz, giga drain, encore, toxic, baton pass that can custom fit your team. good check to random physicals, can avoid being set up bait, can recover itself, has at least 1 useful resist, can hit stuff.
flabebe - clerical options, wish aroma and moonblast, like a togepi with more power and speed but less physical bulk, still, a knock resist, dragon immune, decently fast and powerful.

more discussion, anyone else tried them?

I've seen Jac use swinub, also probably knows more than me about hound variants

shelmet kinda loses out in this meta since it's fighting resist is better warranted up above. i mean riolu can troll it and copycat moves liek spikes and recover and be such a hinderance. but iunno if copytect riolu is a thing yet.

flabebe imo has to compete with toge who has better mixed bulk and a somewhat better movepool both in attacking and status related moves.

last but not least swinub has nothing real interesting to bring ot the table. in a meta filled with water types, one hopes to break thru the ranks and do things but cant. the only reason i was using it was for lo modest freeze dry which does an intersting thing in this meta. (yes swinub is ohko'd by all these mons but who cares it's busting them open on the switch)

the set is just max spa max spe, it's on a webs team to outspeed waters on the switch and punish them for switching in.

im aware that a physical set would do better but i would like to have fun and use a special set and punish water type switchins.

revelant calcs

196+ SpA Life Orb Swinub Freeze-Dry vs. 156 HP / 236+ SpD Eviolite Omanyte: 16-18 (72.7 - 81.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
196+ SpA Life Orb Swinub Freeze-Dry vs. 36 HP / 0 SpD Shellder: 31-39 (155 - 195%) -- guaranteed OHKO
196+ SpA Life Orb Swinub Freeze-Dry vs. 156 HP / 116+ SpD Eviolite Mantyke: 21-31 (91.3 - 134.7%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
196+ SpA Life Orb Swinub Freeze-Dry vs. 116 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Kabuto: 18-23 (85.7 - 109.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
196+ SpA Life Orb Swinub Freeze-Dry vs. 236 HP / 76 SpD Eviolite Frillish: 16-18 (64 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
196+ SpA Life Orb Swinub Freeze-Dry vs. 80 HP / 116+ SpD Eviolite Skrelp: 16-18 (72.7 - 81.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
196+ SpA Life Orb Swinub Freeze-Dry vs. 228 HP / 100 SpD Eviolite Shellos: 16-18 (59.2 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
196+ SpA Life Orb Swinub Freeze-Dry vs. 196 HP / 196+ SpD Tentacool: 16-18 (69.5 - 78.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Blatantly biased towards Houndour. Staying silent.

pffft say something man

 

[Fiend]

fine.

Houndour is obviously S rank. It has the capacity to sweep teams after a few SR switchins has happened and even if it comes in to shatter some defenses itself. Pursuit lets it annihilate Gothita while Flame Charge lets it do that for everything else. NP can even be used to just outright win. Look at this:

+2 196 SpA Life Orb Houndour Fire Blast vs. 196 HP / 236+ SpD Eviolite Lickitung: 21-25 (75 - 89.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Two Stealth Rock switches and look how dead this is. Half the water types can't wall it and Pumpkaboo is set up fodder/murdered. No Pory means Flash Fire has no down sides really, and this allows Houndour to shred Pumpkaboo and friends even harder. It even has strong priority to allow it to hammer faster threats, which are few due to hitting 17 speed. Houndour still outspeeds 10 speed pokemon after Webs too.

36 Atk Life Orb Houndour Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 36 Def Taillow: 16-19 (80 - 95%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
36 Atk Life Orb Houndour Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Doduo: 13-17 (68.4 - 89.4%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
36 Atk Life Orb Houndour Sucker Punch vs. 36 HP / 36 Def Voltorb: 13-17 (61.9 - 80.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Riolu also fails to effectively revenge kill more than half the time, making it more annoying to deal with. It needs 2 low rolls to live, and copy catting D Pulse of Fire Blast is rather dumb.

Fire Blast / Sucker Punch / Dark Pulse / Pursuit or Flame Charge or Nasty Plot is all Houndour really needs to be a threat, but HP Grass/ Ground sets lure and kill its few switchins. However, certain mons can RK it, but nothing wants to switch in more than once. It's comparable to Pawniard in LC OU imo, or it is at least a Carvanha with the ability to get to +1. (more or less equivalent to +2 Houndour, slightly weaker.)

 

[Camden]

I told Jac to post Dour for S because it's been something on my mind for a while, and it really does beat the meta. It's fast and powerful and can put a dent in nearly anything. Dark/Fire coverage is only resisted by Deino and Dour itself, and with the addition of HP Fighting/Ground, it hits everything hard. On top of that, it has multiple options for Dark moves for any situation. Dour is one of the few pokes that can get away with running 3 Dark-type moves and not be punished for it. You can even run a "bulky" set to take an additional hit and still hit hard. It's absolutely amazing.

 

[Corporal Levi]

A few of my thoughts -

Houndour does have a ton of offensive presence and nukes pretty much everything in sight, but that applies to quite a lot of things in LC UU. From the A-ranks alone, there are numerous Pokemon with a similar degree of offensive presence. Cranidos and Darumaka may sit a speed tier lower, but their obscene power means that most of the metagame is cleanly OHKOed instead of 2HKOed; Doduo and Taillow are even faster and are capable of dealing more raw damage; and offensive Skrelp, although heavily reliant on Sticky Web, is also more powerful and packs better defensive typing. Trapping Gothita is pretty cool, but I don't feel as if it's really all that noteworthy a feat considering how Gothita struggles in other aspects as well.
With that being said, I do believe that Houndour is able to differentiate itself from the aforementioned Pokemon enough to warrant a raise, because although it lacks the sheer wall-breaking power that a lot of other Pokemon have, its access to immensely powerful priority in Sucker Punch makes it significantly more threatening against various offensive teams. This alone puts it a notch above the likes of Cranidos/Darumaka/Skrelp, along with its higher Speed tier, as offensive teams are much more widespread in the current metagame than defensive teams, keeping in mind that it's not exactly easy to switch into even for bulkier Pokemon, either, making it an enormous nuisance for bulky and offensive builds alike. Houndour is also somewhat more difficult to remove from the match because unlike Darumaka/Doduo/Taillow, it doesn't KO itself just by attacking nearly as quickly. A few smart switches and the birds will take care of themselves, but this simply isn't the case for Houndour unless you can predict Fire Blast or Dark Pulse 15 times. Not being immune to Sticky Web is a fairly notable disadvantage compared to the birds, but Houndour is still one of the more threatening offensive Pokemon to web teams just because Sucker Punch is so powerful.

On the topic of Fire-types, I would like to nominate Magby for a raise to A- if not A, not for its Belly Drum set, which is almost impossible to set up, but for its Life Orb set. I think the effectiveness of Houndour goes to show how strong offensive Fire-types are in LC UU; the Water-, Rock- and Fire-types that plague offensive Fire-types in the upper tiers still exist in LC UU, but the difference is that they are much more easily worn down, with Shellos and Growlithe being the only noteworthy exceptions, allowing the offensive Fire-types to break through their most popular checks with minimal support. Compared to Houndour as a Life Orb attacker, Magby lacks a priority attack as powerful as Sucker Punch and misses out on a powerful secondary STAB move in Dark Pulse, but it sits at a nicer speed tier, being able to pick off weakened Doduo, Amaura, and sometimes Taillow; more importantly, Magby can take advantage of Mach Punch to beat Houndour in a 1v1 scenario. I feel like Magby is threatening enough and packs enough advantages over Houndour to differentiate itself and warrant a raise.

Riolu I definitely agree should go to S-rank. Of course it's not flawless as a sweeper, because if it was, it'd probably be banned (see Shell Smash Shellder). Even though there are ways to stop it, Riolu is still almost indisputably the most potent sweeper available. It really actually only needs Skrelp and Pumpkaboo slightly weakened, because +2 Crunch KOs Frillish after Stealth Rock, and a combination of Crunch and Copycat ensures that Drifloon can't win, either, unless it's 17 or 18 Speed and carries both Will-O-Wisp and Acrobatics. Also, even SD Riolu isn't THAT frail; it's nowhere near bulky for sure, but if it's carrying Eviolite, it at least has the bulk to avoid the OHKO from 17 SpA LO Houndour's Fire Blast, even after Stealth Rock, meaning it's not actually that big of a deal to just set up on a weakened wall. This is all taking into account that on top of its Swords Dance set that only requires a bit of support, it's also quite versatile; a Bulk Up set is easy to set up with and difficult to revenge-kill once just a few key Pokemon have been adequately weakened, Thunder Punch as a coverage move loses out on Pumpkaboo in return for being able to beat Skrelp even more easily, the almighty ENDURESALAC crushes everything in its path without fail, and even a support set is viable to take advantage of a priority weather move.

Mankey could probably move up to A-, just because its Choice Scarf Defiant set is really great in a Sticky Web-dominated metagame; a +2 Defiant-boosted Close Combat even usually 2HKOs Skrelp from full health. 16 Speed after Choice Scarf and Sticky Web can still outspeed a lot of slower Pokemon, meaning Mankey can almost guarantee a KO every time it comes in on a revenge-kill. Even if Sticky Web isn't up, Mankey makes for a brilliant Choice Scarf user, with its access to U-Turn and powerful attacks making it an excellent scout, revenge-killer, and cleaner. It can also run other sets, but for the most part they're probably done better than Riolu, but I feel as if the effectiveness of its Choice Scarf set alone makes it powerful enough for A-.
Following that train of thought, it's only logical that Spinarak receives a raise as well; it probably shouldn't be to S, though, because Sticky Web is still an exploitable strategy given the prominence of birds, Drifloon, and Mankey. There's really not much to say here; although Spinarak does have a bit of utility other than Sticky Web with its decent defensive typing, access to Toxic Spikes, and Swarm Megahorn, Sticky Web is really one of the defining forces of the metagame. This raise doesn't really apply to Sewaddle because it's so hopelessly outclassed on just about any team by Spinarak.

I think that Omanyte should drop to A- or lower because it's not actually very good anymore. Shellder's consistent damage output makes it a viable Choice Scarf user, but Omanyte relies heavily on coverage move predictions to get anywhere, and even then, most decently specially bulky Pokemon are able to wall it fairly easily. Shellder's Life Orb set can revenge-kill faster Pokemon with Ice Shard, and at worst 2HKOs every single Pokemon in the tier except for the easily worn down Honedge at worst, whereas Omanyte's Life Orb set is slow and somewhat frail, causing it to be completely dependent on Rain Dance support to even remotely threaten offensive teams, and lacks the power to 2HKO important defensive Pokemon like Shellos and Lickitung if hazards or weather aren't up. Shellder is able to run a nifty defensive set that has the advantage of being a Rapid Spinner able to break through physically defensive Pumpkaboo, compared to Omanyte's much less impressive niche as a slow hazard setter that is 2HKOed by most of the metagame except for birds. Omanyte is probably the Rain sweeper available and can sort of do a few other things, but I don't think that it's even close to being on par with the likes of the birds or Gothita, let alone the S-ranks.

 

[Camden]

Even though I put Omanyte in S Rank originally because of the power of its LO and Rain Sweeper sets, I've been less and less impressed by it. It can honestly function well w/ Webs but at that point it's competing w/ Skrelp for a teamslot and Skrelp's generally more reliable in that position. I'm definitely going to be bumping it down in the next update, probably to A- just because I still see merit in a hazard stacking set as well as a LO set.

 

[cityfolk]

Yamask for C.

Yamask has access to the coveted move Knock Off, and, interestingly enough, Toxic Spikes. Yamask has a unique ability in Mummy, which negates the ability of any mon making contact with it. It can set up hazards with tspikes, provide utility with knock off, and spread status with will-o-wisp. However it lacks any recovery outside of rest and pain split. It has a lot of positives but lack of recovery and not great typing hold it back from being B or higher, so yamask for C.

Here's an example of a set/spread I've found most effective.

Hide

Yamask @ Eviolite
Ability: Mummy
Level: 5
EVs: 212 HP / 156 Def / 76 SpD / 36 Spe
Bold Nature
- Knock Off
- Shadow Ball
- Will-O-Wisp
- Toxic Spikes / Pain Split

 

[Anthiese]

Yamask for C.

Yamask has access to the coveted move Knock Off, and, interestingly enough, Toxic Spikes. Yamask has a unique ability in Mummy, which negates the ability of any mon making contact with it. It can set up hazards with tspikes, provide utility with knock off, and spread status with will-o-wisp. However it lacks any recovery outside of rest and pain split. It has a lot of positives but lack of recovery and not great typing hold it back from being B or higher, so yamask for C.

Here's an example of a set/spread I've found most effective.

Hide

Yamask @ Eviolite
Ability: Mummy
Level: 5
EVs: 212 HP / 156 Def / 76 SpD / 36 Spe
Bold Nature
- Knock Off
- Shadow Ball
- Will-O-Wisp
- Toxic Spikes

Slashing Pain Split if you dont need TSpikes could be warranted. Low HP number + High defenses = bae to me.

 

[Camden]

Changes:

Removed Omanyte (Now LC OU by usage)
Houndour from A+ > S
Added Flabébé to C

Everything else I'd like a bit more discussion on, in particular:

Skrelp
Riolu
Magby
Mankey
Yamask

 

[cityfolk]

Although Skrelp's 2 main stops (Croagunk and Ferroseed) are both LC OU, I don't think it's necessarily S material. It dishes out hard hits and has fantastic bulk, but it's pretty slow and has no recovery outside of Resttalk, which forces it to lose two attacks.

Riolu I think is fine in A+. It has the great Prankster Copycat set, which allows it to easily revenge kill or sweep. However even with an eviolite it's pretty frail, and doesn't get many opportunities to set up a Swords Dance. Unless it's running Drain Punch (which, coming off of Riolu, isn't very strong) it has no reliable recovery (lol rest).

Magby I feel should move up to A-. It has access to the coveted 19 speed tier and great moves such as Belly Drum, Flare Blitz/Fire Punch, Mach Punch, and ThunderPunch if you want to go physical, and doesn't have enough moves to really pull off a special set. However it has access to Will-o-Wisp if you want to run a bulky set. With Ponyta and Zigzagoon (who outclass it as a LO fire type attacker and belly drum sweeper, respectively) not in the tier, it has room to shine.

Mankey I feel is at the very least A- material, and I'm surprised it's even in B+. It can run an amazing scarf set and is even fast enough to run a LO set. It has access to Defiant, so it's an easy threat against web teams, and isn't scared of intimidate mons like Growlithe. It has good coverage options such as Gunk Shot, Earthquake, and U-turn, in addition to the great and reliable STAB Close Combat. I feel it belongs in A- if not A. If Spinarak can be in A, why can't Mankey?

Yamask I have already posted about.

 

[Relaxed Dedenne]

(Edit: Even though it's not "up for discussion") Nominating togepi for C rank. This will probably the only other somewhat viable fairy type in lc uu other than maybe azurill, and while it's spa is low it can run a decent amount of physical bulk. The reason this could be useful is dratini and tyrunt have become interesting options for set up dragons that aren't threatened by the usual lc fairy type spritzee. This would be an antimeta poke against dragons as snover is against sand teams. Togepi can get a decent 23/16/13 defenses, has recovery, can get 12 spa with 36 evs + modest nature, and if what it switches into does not stay in it can at least get up a reflect or use thunderwave. I was thinking of a set that might look like the following.

Togepi @ Eviolite
Ability: Serene Grace? idk
Level: 5
EVs: 236 Hp / 236 Def / 36 Spa
Modest Nature
- Dazzling Gleam
- Thunder wave
- Reflect
- Soft-Boiled

_____

36+ SpA Togepi Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 36 SpD Dratini: 18-24 (94.7 - 126.3%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
(18, 18, 18, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 24)

36+ SpA Togepi Dazzling Gleam vs. 52 HP / 76 SpD Eviolite Tyrunt: 14-18 (60.8 - 78.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 18)

_____

+1 244+ Atk Life Orb Dratini Waterfall vs. 236 HP / 236 Def Eviolite Togepi: 8-10 (34.7 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
(8, 8, 8, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 10)

+1 244+ Atk Life Orb Dratini Waterfall vs. 236 HP / 236 Def Eviolite Togepi through Reflect: 4-5 (17.3 - 21.7%) -- possible 5HKO
(4, 4, 4, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5)

_____

+1 124+ Atk Tyrunt Stone Edge vs. 236 HP / 236 Def Eviolite Togepi: 13-16 (56.5 - 69.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 16)

+1 124+ Atk Tyrunt Stone Edge vs. 236 HP / 236 Def Eviolite Togepi through Reflect: 6-8 (26 - 34.7%) -- 0.7% chance to 3HKO
(6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 8)

_____

The idea here is that iron head and iron tail are not lucrative moves for tyrunt and dratini to run. Unless they can get waterfall flinches or stone edge crits they are going to lose to topegi or be forced to switch. If they do switch a free reflect/thunderwave is usually not bad. These two pokes cannot learn knock off so togepis eviolite would be safe.

Of course togepi can also use nasty plot and a few other moves like flamethrower. It can use baton pass and is an effective receiver with stored power. I don't like to encourage baton pass shenanigans in LC though and I'm not a fan of torch pass.

Wouldn't you run super luck on togepi if your lucky enough to get a crit :s

 

[Anthiese]

Wouldn't you run super luck on togepi if your lucky enough to get a crit :s

Not really.

If anything you'd raise the crit rate to 12% (if Toge has high crit rate moves, they are stage 3 which is at 50%), and standard Togepi doesnt really need to do this.

 

[Merritt]

I think his point was more that Serene Grace is useless on a DG/TWave/Reflect/Softboiled set, and Super Luck is (slightly) more useful. The reason for the ability Ronald Reagan Debates is that Softboiled is a FRLG move tutor move, and so is incompatible with Super Luck. While Togepi can instead run Morning Sun from an egg move, Softboiled is more useful and it's enough to make it a better choice.

Hustle is, of course, a terrible idea.

 

[Anthiese]

I think his point was more that Serene Grace is useless on a DG/TWave/Reflect/Softboiled set, and Super Luck is (slightly) more useful. The reason for the ability Ronald Reagan Debates is that Softboiled is a FRLG move tutor move, and so is incompatible with Super Luck. While Togepi can instead run Morning Sun from an egg move, Softboiled is more useful and it's enough to make it a better choice.

Hustle is, of course, a terrible idea.

I guess 12% is better than 6.25% I'll retract my disagreement.

I guess Morning Sun is an option but 8 PP and weather dependent in a meta where sun isn't good nor common is a another bad idea.

 

[Camden]

Alright everyone, made some changes to reflect the tier shift:

Shellder, Gothita, Houndour, Skrelp all removed (All LC OU by usage)
Vulpix > S
Corphish > S
Pancham > A+
Slowpoke > A+

These rankings are temporary, and could be changed depending on whether council wants to ban Vulpix now or later. Same to Corphish.

So a quick explanation I guess:

Vulpix is an absolute monster of a wallbreaker. A Sun-boosted Overheat/Fire Blast is tearing through most of the meta. Along with that, the support that Sun provides allows Pokemon such as Bellsprout to sweep nearly flawlessly.

Corphish, like Vulpix, is an amazing wallbreaker. However, it actually carries an acceptable amount of physical bulk so it doesn't immediately crumble to bird spam. Its performance is unfortunately hindered by Vulpix's existence, so if Vulpix/Drought stay I could possibly see this moving down. We'll see.

Pancham is a great addition to the tier because it carries suitable bulk but still maintains a strong offensive presence. It can use Mold Breaker to Knock Off Eviolites from Shellos and Berry Juices from Trubbish, carry Scrappy if it wants to Drain Punch Honedge for some reason, or simply run Iron Fist to gain a bit of power on Drain Punch/elemental punches if it decides to use them.

Slowpoke is a fun addition because it's taking hits from quite a lot in this meta. It suffers from the same issues that hurt its viability in LC OU, but not as much because VoltTurn teams in LC UU aren't as well-equipped and Pawniard doesn't exist.

Again, these rankings are probably going to change, but this is a good starting point and I hope that this is something we can build off of.

 

[Anthiese]

NOM TIME

for S Rank

+Outspeeds whole unboosted metagame without the need for scarf
+Beats just about any Water type in the whole meta
+Can set up Rain and abuse it with Thunder + HP Water (if ur into shitty hidden power types but it gets rain boost so turn up)
+Taunt and Magic Coat are invaluable status moves that fuck with SR Leads and Set up mons
+Can run HP Grass to bash GRounds who think they are slick
+Soft Checks Doduo and most other Birds who arent scarfed (only soft bc non flying moves would prolly ohko or come close)
+Explosion can be ran to catch things off guard
-Shit bulk

for A- Rank (EDIT or B+ gimme somethin)

+17 Speed is high and outpaces a good chunk
+Glare is amazing, paralyzes everything par Elecs and Limber mons
+U-Turn and Surf keks Ground Switchins trying to absord Elec moves
+Dry Skin trolls Water types and allows recovery from Water moves
+Benefits from Rain in multiple ways (dry skin recov + surf boost + thunder)
-Worse bulk than Torb (40 keks)
-EDIT SHREKT BY BIRDSPAM BC OUTSPED RIP

Slowpoke is a fun addition because it's taking hits from quite a lot in this meta. It suffers from the same issues that hurt its viability in LC OU, but not as much because VoltTurn teams in LC UU aren't as well-equipped and Pawniard doesn't exist.

Helioptile is prolly the closest thing to a problem that Slowpoke will have when comonb up against VT since Helio gives no fucks about TWave + Scald but it cares about Psychic.

32 SpA Life Orb Helioptile Thunderbolt vs. 116 HP / 116 SpD Eviolite Slowpoke: 18-26 (66.6 - 96.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
36 SpA Slowpoke Psychic vs. 0 HP / 92 SpD Helioptile: 9-12 (45 - 60%) -- 68.4% chance to 2HKO

sassy trade imo. make of it what you will.

 

[Camden]

Moved Voltorb to A- to start with, and Pancham to S Rank. More changes will come later.

Edit: Helioptile to B+ to start with. Still need a rank for Numel and a few other key Pokemon.

 

[Joltage]

QuoteCS Yo, you should probably update the OP and remove Corp.

More importantly, I have a nom to make. And that nom is that Joltik finally get a spot on the list, preferably in B-.

In previous pages, it was argued that Joltik is completely outclassed as and electric type by Voltorb, and I just don't think that's the case as Joltik has a niche as a fantastic pivot for the tier. I consider Joltik a bit of a poor man's Chinchou, which is not a bad thing when Chinchou isn't in the tier. Joltik actually has a fantastic unique typing and all of the coverage options he needs to do a nice amount of work in the tier. Joltik's extra bug typing grants Joltik a neutrality to ground and cool resistances to both fighting and grass. Joltik's STAB combo is seldom resisted, and Giga Drain/Energy Ball allows it to scuttle past the ground types that try to block a Volt Switch. If you're feeling like innovating a bit, Joltik's movepool allows for a bit of creativity there with options like a surprise Sucker Punch, T-Wave because para's are great, Discharge for a similar reason, Agility to clean your opponent's weakened team late-game, Disable to annoy shit, Thief for potentially stealing Eviolites, and he can even Rain Dance if you really wanted him to, though there are far better setters out there like Voltorb for instance. Sure, Joltik's abilities are basically useless thanks to his lack of moves to abuse Compound Eyes with (Thunder) and the general mediocrity of his other two abilities in Unnerve and Swarm, and sure he's got a nasty Stealth Rock weakness, but I think that despite those negatives, Joltik deserves a place on the rankings as it is a fanstastic pivot, and can actually sort of dismantle certain teams with it's STABs + Grass Move. Also, Joltik is one of, if not the single most adorable Pokemon in existence, which doesn't really matter, but I felt like that was just another fact that needed to be stated.

I would also like to see Meowth get a move up as I feel he is far more effective than the mons he currently shares a ranking with in B-.

 

[Camden]

Jac and I are going to move around some of the stuff on the rankings, mainly Meowth moving up a lot and some other changes. I just need to get a hold of him for more than a few minutes so it can be done.

...and yes, Joltik will get ranked.

 

[Golden009]

I'm not sure what Spinarak is doing in A. It seems to have one purpose and only one purpose in Sticky Web, and that isn't enough to justify that ranking imo.

 

[Berks]

I'm not sure what Spinarak is doing in A. It seems to have one purpose and only one purpose in Sticky Web, and that isn't enough to justify that ranking imo.

It's also pretty bulky, has a great anti-Fighting typing, STAB Megahorn, and yeah, webs are that good

 

[Anthiese]

As I see it, Spinirak's ONLY competiton is Sewaddle and in all seriousness I'd say Spin's the better webber. It's also got TSpikes it can set.

Webs'is actually really good in LCUU despite birdspam being a constant threat.

Also i wouldnt say it's a godsend against fighting mons since the commons ones have answers for it (Rock Slide for Machop, ZHB for Pancham, and LOL Blaze Kick for Riolu).

I'd like to see Meowth move up as well since it's such good addition to VoltTurn. It's prolyl still going to resort to Gem + Fake / Covet / KO / Turn or some other NP Set or Feint over Covet. I think it's worth B+ Rank or higher.

 

[Subjection]

imo Purrloin should be moved to at least A or even A+, and Anorith should be moved to A-.

 

[kingmidas]

Paras to B, has a beautiful typing for the meta, access to spore and knock off, great mono type coverage in bullet seed, or can run x-scissor instead of synthesis if you need the grass damaging coverage.
Sandile to A-, best pursuit trapper in the tier, has great physically bulk taking into account intimidate, counters dangerous threats like honedge and tyrunt, can can be used as death fodder to prevent a sweep. Hit decently hard but really gets going if the fast offensive sets or scarf get kills as it has access to moxie. Also ground stab is great.

 

[Anthiese]

things we need to discuss

spoink and why it's ranked

why elgyem isnt ranked

move up pump large
move up helioptile
move up sandshrew

edit

where is wingull

rip hippo

will edit in full analysis after teirshift

 

[Svalkenaeres]

Venonat for B
Cool typing, as Spinarak, cool bulk, Sleep Powder 97 accuracy, reliable heal move (Morning Sun).
Also, this thing can work as pivot with Baton Pass and even has access to tspikes.
Also this thing can pass Subs and Speed Boosts with useful fillers such as Stun Spore (Works as foongus).

Budew for B

There is not a lot of Spikers in LC UU, so I guess that Sleep Powder + Spikes and being quite fast is a huge niche. I never used him in LC UU but this thing works in LC OU, and his best enemy called Dwebble is gone. Chespin miss Sleep Powder and Speed

Smoochum for B-
Great spatk, good speed (also could be coupled with sweb) and really awesome offensive typing. the only thing who is sad is Houndour. Being weak to a overused mon is not a benediction. But it deserves more than being unranked.

+

things we need to discuss

spoink and why it's ranked

why elgyem isnt ranked

move up pump large
move up helioptile
move up sandshrew

edit

where is wingull

rip hippo

will edit in full analysis after teirshift

Spoink is ranked cause Thick Fat, good speed and movepool I guess.
Elgyem seems p outclassed by Solosis. I agree with the rest of the propositions.