Metagame NP: RU Stage 8: Jam (Turn It Up)

[Molk]

Alright, so now that Moltres, Pangoro, and Feraligatr have been banned for a little bit. It's time to start a new np: thread. Unlike the past few rounds, we're going to be doing things a little differently and we're going to have No Suspects. Instead this thread will be serving a new purpose as a General Metagame Discussion. Sharing your knowledge of the (NEW) Metagame is a great way to get involved and help out the community, and this new thread is just the place to do that. Some things that could be discussed in this thread include:

• New Stage - If there are tier shifts, make some predictions on what the metagame will be like or comment on the changes

• Suspect Testing - If you believe that anything is worthy of a suspect test, post about it and why you think it deserves a suspect test. (nothing will be chosen as a suspect until at least two weeks in though, if even that)

• Metagame trends - What are the most common or effective strategies? Are there any Pokemon that you think will rise in usage?

• Top threats - What should the main priorities be when considering a team for RU?

• Playstyles - Which are most effective? Are there any that cannot succeed?

• Cores - What are some popular or solid cores? Why do they work so well, and what can be used to beat them?

• Underrated Pokemon - Just because a Pokemon isn't used much doesn't mean its bad! There are plenty of hidden gems scattered throughout low RU, NU, PU, and possibly even Little Cup!

• New sets - If you have a unique set that you've had success with recently, share it!

Be sure to keep this discussion as civil as possible, as always.

And remember to enjoy this awesome tier and only think about current suspects if the meta turns out to really suck.

shamelessly cped from round 4

atomicllamas the homosexual tier leader edit <3:

Hope you all enjoy the np song!! I'll be ushering in the new era of fantastic songs just like you've all wanted. B)

 

[rural]

this isnt natalia kills

 

[DKFirelord]

I'lol start now that Feralagator is gone everyone noticed that Godrott became even better thanks to it no longer being outclassed by Samarott SD Speacial Taunt and Mix all are vaiable sets

 

[Cowtao]

Aw. I wanted to request a song. ;;;

For now many people have expected that Cresselia would be the next suspect. That thankfully didn't turn out that way as now, the tier has shifted largely to steel-types with popular pokemon such as Doublade, Mega-Steelix, and Cobalion reigning king in this meta as of now.

As such, a lot of users have been shifting over to ways to counter this sudden surge. Slowking, Dugtrio, and Heliolisk, among others, have risen in usage due to their now new relevance within the tiers. This has created something great with the tier, and has kept new things to be explored. There are still plenty of pokemon that have yet to be re-discovered and re-used such as Gurdurr and Archeops. I am very confident that this RU Stage will probably be the most fun and creative RU stage that we will have for a long time. c:

 

[atomicllamas]

Spirit outdid me in picking shitty np songs. I'm now obsolete.

 

[Nails]

this np song is bad and you should feel bad

 

[g]

Free Chinese Food

 

[termi]

just dropping by to say durant is broken you can come up with pro ban arguments yourself

 

[Iambirdjesus]

ban druddigon.

 

[col49]

personal selection for the np, given that's what important, clearly. was really feelin' some k-pop acid jazz, at least moreso than, well, ya know. also, i don't think anything is egregiously broken currently, if anybody cared

 

[termi]

ok I see ru is full of trash music taste so I'm back to drop off a quick little tune right here to compensate for all this lack of taste hope u like it

 

[Sebberball]

Why not this? this could work for a suspect test XD

 

[atomicllamas]

The 12 hour grace period of shit posting is now over, please focus on discussing the RU meta game and stop posting your songs, they will not be considered, thank you. also there is no 12 hour grace period for shit posting, I'm just too lazy to delete all these off topic posts o.o

 

[Natural Talent]

As of now the meta is being really slow and full of bulky offense teams. One of my favorite Pokemon to use right now that break down these teams would be durant, with Moltres gone the only scarf mons that threaten it would be medicham emboar and rotom (any form really ,but most common is Mow)

I have also found love for SD Rhyperior and hail offense seeing how stall is becoming less common and teams are a lot slower.

Most common play styles as of now are bulky offense , balance , and stall ( which some get destroyed by durant , even some stall teams!!)

If doublade leaves durant will get way better (maybe even broken), it allows it to not have to run crunch. Sawk would be a lot better because that's one less switch in to Close Combat.

 

[DKFirelord]

Snow Warning Aurous is not avaible everyone. So Hail Teams ?

 

[phantom]

Snow Warning seems like a slight boost on an already average Pokemon. Aurous would most likely get a little more usage, but I don't think it's going to change much tbh. The only thing it really changes is the dynamic of its teammates. Pairing LO Aurous with say Scarf Rotom-F could be interesting for sure; aside from lack of defensive synergy, it seems like a pretty potent offensive combination like Mega Abomasnow + Rotom-F was in mid XY. I do like that it can break Sashes and Sturdy from lead Pokemon though, and the slight chip damage given by hail lets it out damages its Refrigerated-boosted Hyper Voice. Unlike Mega Abomasnow, it doesn't take up a Mega Slot so you can pair it up with say offensive Mega Audino to get an interesting core going. Still, the competition with Abomasnow in general is kinda hard to overlook. You really need to take advantage of SR/Rock Polish/Earth Power to make it worthwhile.

 

[Jaguar360]

Snow Warning Aurorus kind of has a nice as a lead since the hail will break Focus Sashes. This really screws with Omastar in particular and can beat Accelgor too if it runs Stone Edge or gets a lucky roll with Life Orb Blizzard.

Aurorus @ Focus Sash / Life Orb
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid/Hasty Nature
- Blizzard
- Stealth Rock
- Earth Power
- Freeze-Dry / Stone Edge

Of course, there's also double Hail with Abomasnow, but those terrible typings are just asking for punishment in a way.

 

[Froggyboy]

People are talking about how Durant is broken, but I feel Emboar is broken as well, though a lot may disagree with me. I feel there are a few elements that makes me think that Emboar calls for a suspect, such as lack of switch ins and restricting teambuilding, but I'm tired, so I'll see if someone else agrees with me on this.

 

[lars]

Just getting back after a long hiatus. So these opinions are based on a relatively small (compared to others) sample size and from the lower side of the ladder.

I think Emboar is strong, but I think Cobalion, Durant, and Reunic are more dangerous threats.

Any team built should be wary of Emboar, but with the prevalence of bulky waters (and how generally strong and desirable they are to have on most teams), it isn't too hard to fit a decent Emboar check/counter on your team. Generally Emboar wears itself down too fast to seem broken to me. Almost all sets are choiced and can be worked around.

The variety of Cobalion's sets make it much harder to effectively prepare for (in team building or in battle), especially if you let your CM Cob check get worn down when assuming the opponent is using SD (or vice-versa). Durant just hits really hard and can very reasonably force a switch. Reuniclus can also run a few sets, but CMclus is pretty easy to sweep with.

I've always been pretty conservative in my opinion of suspects so at this point I don't think anything is unhealthy for the metagame (Cobalion being the strongest in my eyes, but probably still not too strong to handle).


--As a side note-- Hi everybody! It's been a long time! I probably can't be too active, but I'll try to eventually hang around IRC and catch up with any old faces. (:

 

[Psycho Pacifist]

Emboar is great, hitting extremely hard with Reckless and getting really nice coverage. But its speed really holds it back, even with priority in Sucker Punch. While Choice Scarf mends this, being locked into one move allows it to be beat by switching into something that can take that move. Other sets opt for more power, such as the LO/CB set. But then it opens itself up to faster Pokemon to revenge it. Not to mention it gets worn down by recoil fairly quickly.

 

[Froggyboy]

Emboar gets worn down quickly thanks to recoil, yes, but it can easily take down 2-3 Pokemon down with it thanks to its absurd power. Most bulky waters in the tier have either limited to no recovery(WishTect, limited PP), or have a weak defense stat and get eaten up by a coverage move. With a moveset of Flare Blitz/Wild Charge/Superpower, it destroys most of the tier, and it can use its last moveslot to hit whatever can take that combo, like Grass Knot for Quagsire or Scald for Mega Camerupt. And that's on Scarf sets, Band sets don't even have to worry about those mons, and LO Sucker Punch sets puts dents into most revenge killers in the tier like Specs Meloetta, Dugtrio, and even Hitmonlee takes a decent amount of damage.

 

[phantom]

I'd argue that Emboar's vulnerability to passive damage is exacerbated even further due to its reliance on recoil moves. From experience, I've had an easier time playing around it in comparison to other wallbreakers because of that fact. Just because it doesn't have a 100% guaranteed safe-switch in doesn't mean it's broken. Tyrantrum and Exploud fall into the same boat here, expect they don't rely on recoil moves to wallbreak and are thus less easily worn down. It hits harder overall, but I don't think that's a good enough reason to ban it. Emboar really isn't broken or even suspect worthy.

 

[Lord Death Man]

Emboar is no stronger than, say, Hitmonlee; while Flare Blitz is certainly a more spammable type and has a nice 10% burn chance, Emboar also trades it's longevity in a way many other mons don't, which keeps it from holding a Life Orb and getting the most use out of it's coverage. As a scarfer, it's still pretty slow - outsped by Jolteon and +1 Tyrantrum, for example. Ebelt just isn't as strong as it would like when hitting neutrally, 65 isn't a lot of speed, and Emboar's cool movepool is let down by the need to click Flare Blitz with a choice item and how reliant on those it is. Emboar is certainly threatening, but its flaws are serious enough to keep it in check.

I've never felt that restrictive team building was as big of deal as some other people when that means running one check; if we're talking about mons that are hard to fit multiple checks on a team and can easily sweep if they get a free switch in, we might as well discuss how restrictive Slurpuff can be.

 

[spuds4ever]

I think emboar power carries a lot more weight than people give it credit for. Here's the big difference, CB emboar can 2hko the entire tier barring 2 pokemon (lomo and qwilfish) with its STABs alone.

Wallbreakers such as exploud, hitmonlee and tyrantrum are much more reliant on non STAB coverage to hit pokemon that are very common at the moment, most notably steel types in cobalion, rhperior and megalix for exploud and tyrantrum while lee is faced with cresselia, fairies (if you have space for poison jab), spiritomb and jellicent (particularly the latter two given HJK's side effect). Switching into a non STAB specs fire blast or surf from exploud or earthquake from tyrantrum is much easier than having to stomach a non resisted CB STAB move from Emboar. On top of this, emboar can still 2hko its two hardest defensive checks with one coverage move in wild charge and doesn't even need to predict for any offensive check switching in:
252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Emboar Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Delphox: 242-285 (83.1 - 97.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Emboar Flare Blitz vs. 160 HP / 4 Def Fletchinder: 298-351 (97.7 - 115%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

As well as this, emboar has the typing and good enough bulk to switch into a lot of relevant pokemon in the tier making it less reliant on volturn support than other wall breakers like rum and ploud. For example: defensive grass types (especially given that CB has space for sleep talk), houndoom, accelgor and shiftry. Less safely but still reasonably plausibly, it can switch into durant, escavalier, spiritomb.

Choice scarf also makes it a very relevant threat to offensive teams that don't mind sacking a mon to CB which distinguishes further from the only other pokemon in the tier that can claim to 2hko everything; exploud.

Durant on the other hand is quite comparable to tyrantrum but is overall a stronger mon I believe. DD and hone claws are quite similar sets but tyrantrum has issues with having a lot more weaknesses, making it quite a lot harder to set up, particularly given that it doesn't have enough initial speed to force out a lot of threats. Rum has the stronger CB set but again, its lack of speed and switchin opportunities and being easier to force out makes it a cut below durant IMO. Also note that this is a comparison with a top-tier threat, suggesting that durant could well be just a cut too high for RU.

While broken isn't a term I'm fond of, I think "too much" or a "cut above" are reasonable terms that fit emboar and durant and I reckon both deserve a suspect test.

 

[Kyuzeth]

What's the general opinion on Mega Steelix in the current metagame? It is undoubtedly one of the best Pokémon in the RU metagame, if not outright the best. I'm not sure whether or not it's broken, but Mega Steelix is never deadweight and can be fit on almost any team. It's got massive defensive capacity, great offensive presence and quite some utility to boot; what makes the snake so threatening is that it basically has all three of those capacities combined no matter which set it runs. Again, not sure if it's really broken, but it may be worth investigating some more.