Can Chesnaught go special? Can it put other pokemon to sleep? Can it run hp ice? Can it use earthquake? Can it KO threats? Can it switch out and come back in with more health? Can it live a flying move? Can it wall psychic types? Can it knock off items? These are two very different pokemon that should not be compared. Yes they are both defensive grass that can run leech seed but thats pretty much it. Tangrowth Montage Coming Soon
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
ORAS UU Viability Ranking Thread M2
- Thread starter aim
- Start date
- Status
I'm going to second Tangrowth for B-, I actually hadnt realized just how deep Tangrowth's offensive movepool/capability is compared to other defensive Grass types and how much more passive things like Chesnaught look in comparison. Regen is also really nice so you arent obligated to waste time Leech Seeding and Protecting to recover or any bs like that.
I see it being more viable as an offensive pivot in this tier more so than a straight up wall (though it can still wall plenty).
I don't really see it going any higher though because Rotom-C or Shaymin are almost always better for more or less the same job but some balance teams could appreciate the extra physical bulk that Tangrowth brings along with it's offensive presence. At the same time I don't think it's as bad as freaking Ditto and Mesprit. Same rank as Virizion seems about right.
Mega Audino C -> Unranked it's outclassed at wish passing by Florges and even Aromatisse and Cresselia can do the whole Lunar Dance > its Healing Wish better. tl;dr audino sucks
Tangrowth C -> B- Regenerator allowing it to switch back and forth gaining HP as well as its ability to wall numerous physical attackers in the UU metagame. Leech Seed, Sleep Powder etc. Specs set strong.
Tangrowth C -> B- Regenerator allowing it to switch back and forth gaining HP as well as its ability to wall numerous physical attackers in the UU metagame. Leech Seed, Sleep Powder etc. Specs set strong.
Why is Jellicent b Rank? its good as a water absorber, but that dark weakness really hurts.
But other than that, list looks pretty good.
But other than that, list looks pretty good.
fast jelly with taunt is actually a really good mon thats a great stop to crocune for stall and semi stall
I don't think jelli is bad at all, but it does face competition from Slowking in a lot of roles who can also beat cune with a calm mind set. B isn't a bad rank, so I don't think it needs to move up particularly.
Supporting Audino Drop, it is outclassed as a cleric, and pretty much everything else it does.
Supporting Tangrowth, it is an amazing stop to waters and other physical mons due to its high defense, amazing ability in regenerator, and a great offensive movepool.
Jellicent is a great counter to the tiers bulky waters due to its ability of Water Absorb, and taunt which forces waters to heal jellicent. Plus, water/ghost is a really nice typing.
Wtf are you talking about? Sash is most definitely not the only good set. Life Orb Zam hits only marginally softer than Mega Alakazam who was banned for its ability to wallbreak and sweep with ease. LO Encore Zam absolutely dismantles teams and doesn't allow their "walls" to recover. I use the term loosely because nearly everything gets 2hkod. Furthermore, Alakazam's crazy speed stat let it outspeed everything common that isn't a mega. I agree that it faces trouble from both Priority users and Crobat but it's not hard at all to switch into those. Partner LO Zam with any bulky water and you won't be disappointed. Alakazam's crazy support movepool also allow it great freedom in deciding what it wants to do on a team. CM, Encore, Sub, even TWave are all viable options that grant niche usefulness and can advance your teams win conditions. All of this isn't even touching on the sash set which is arguably better than LO and is a monstrous threat to offense and a huge annoyance to pretty much any team. A+ is fitting.
Hell, I once used a Rain Dance Alakazam because of it's support options.
Milotic is C rank now, not bad
I'm not sure how much I agree with Milotic being anything but D even if Hikari made a case for it in the last thread. It does two things that Slowking can't and that's switch into M-Blastoise's Dark Pulse and deal with CM Florges, both of which Suicune can do better if it's carrying Roar (which it absolutely should). I'm really not seeing why anyone would choose Milotic while Slowking and Suicune are available.
If Suicune carries Roar then it's missing out on either Sleep Talk or CM, both pivotal in beating many teams. Milotic's access to recover allow it to check these things more reliably in the sense that it has to only compromise one moveslot to remain healthy and an active member of the team. (A sleeping Suicune, especially without Sleep Talk is a very INactive member of a team)
Feraligatr defines the metagame at the moment. Thanks to Sheer Force it rips through even the bulkiest of teams thanks to getting the boost on Waterfall, Crunch, and Ice Punch. Access to both SD and DD allows Gatr to function as both a wallbreaker and a cleaner, respectively. Even its bulk and defensive typing are solid, giving it plenty of chances to set up each match. Because Gatr is so difficult to wall and equally difficult to stop from setting up, it is deserving of the best rank we have.
Milotic has a niche, in HAZE. and insta-recovery without sleep.
I disagree with this, I definitely don't think that Fera gets "free turns" or has zero drawing back when adding it to a team like the mons that are already in S. Fera is perfect at A+, I believe it is similar to Pidge that has a S-Rank mon that keeps it from being S; Its M-Aero for Pidge and Cune for Fera. If either of those leave the tier then yeah, no question they need to be S, but until then let them be A+.A+ -> S
Feraligatr defines the metagame at the moment. Thanks to Sheer Force it rips through even the bulkiest of teams thanks to getting the boost on Waterfall, Crunch, and Ice Punch. Access to both SD and DD allows Gatr to function as both a wallbreaker and a cleaner, respectively. Even its bulk and defensive typing are solid, giving it plenty of chances to set up each match. Because Gatr is so difficult to wall and equally difficult to stop from setting up, it is deserving of the best rank we have.
Adamant Feraligatr 2HKOs Suicune with +2 Crunch, though. Pidgeot can't do anything like that outside of Hidden Power Water (or another HP that Aero is weak to). Mega Aero keeps Mega Pidgeot out of S because of 1) How ubiquitous Aerodactyl is, so using Pidgeot is instantly a liability and 2) How completely Aerodactyl shuts down Pidgeot. Suicune is a significant roadblock for Feraligatr, but it is not the same level of counter. Suicune isn't as popular, and Feraligatr also has the SubDD set, which sets up on non-Roar Suicune and then sweeps, instead turning Suicune into a liability.
I don't know if I'd put Feraligatr in S yet (at least, no in standard, he's definitely S in No Scald, where suddenly every bulky Water is set-up fodder), but Suicune doesn't auto-disqualify him for S. None of our S Pokemon exactly live up to the "free turn/zero drawback" standard of the description (which I think is a sign of the balance in the tier), but they are head-and-shoulders above the competition in sheer utility/danger, and while I've played around with Feraligatr a fair amount I think some more testing is in order as to whether or not he belongs there. Unless Aim and whoever else is responsible thinks otherwise.
I don't know if I'd put Feraligatr in S yet (at least, no in standard, he's definitely S in No Scald, where suddenly every bulky Water is set-up fodder), but Suicune doesn't auto-disqualify him for S. None of our S Pokemon exactly live up to the "free turn/zero drawback" standard of the description (which I think is a sign of the balance in the tier), but they are head-and-shoulders above the competition in sheer utility/danger, and while I've played around with Feraligatr a fair amount I think some more testing is in order as to whether or not he belongs there. Unless Aim and whoever else is responsible thinks otherwise.
Was actually discussing this exact topic with Hikari/Sam/UUcouncil when we were making the changes to the rankings. We came up with the same reasoning for why it shouldn't be S Tier haha. If scald goes though...
We're iffy with Bronzong. yes it can check aero as well as pidgeot to an extent (refresh bird beats it and heatwave does 40%) as you said but being a check with no reliable recovery as well as easily set up on by every single CM user in the tier as well as being way too passive to damage just about anything bar aero and tyrantrum is kinda why it's b rank. easily set up on and worn down. will discuss this though later with the council.
eyyyy props to tangrowth
on the topic of bronzong i feel like with gyro ball and eq and toxic (last move being rocks or something) it can somewhat handle a lot of the tier, heavily damaging most fire types on the switch, bulky waters to some extent, and then ofc aero and other frail/fast mons like salamence w/o fire blast. being susceptible to knock off and burn from scald and only have lefties as recovery does suck tho.
also i can't remember if smash passing was banned in uu or not but maybe gorebyss for like C+ ish?
on the topic of bronzong i feel like with gyro ball and eq and toxic (last move being rocks or something) it can somewhat handle a lot of the tier, heavily damaging most fire types on the switch, bulky waters to some extent, and then ofc aero and other frail/fast mons like salamence w/o fire blast. being susceptible to knock off and burn from scald and only have lefties as recovery does suck tho.
also i can't remember if smash passing was banned in uu or not but maybe gorebyss for like C+ ish?
Doublade B --> At least B+
Doublade is an amazing check to a lot of great things in the Meta atm including Mega Aerodactyl, Non-Fire Blast Salamence, Tyrantrum, Mega Beedrill, Heracross, Cresselia, Alakazam etc. It can run Pursuit to weaken shit so that something can clean easier later, i.e Pursuit trapping Mega Aero so that it can be killed by +2 Lucario Espeed later on in the game. It's also one of the few spinblockers in the tier.
Honestly smash pass is an atrocious playstyle that lacks skill and is looked down upon by a majority of the community, however even if this was not the case Smash pass is awful in UU not to mention it is a very specific playstyle and gorebyss needs a huge amount of support to do its job properly. Almost every uu team has one of the following, if not multiple, Fast scarfers, taunt user, infiltrator mon, strong priority, phazers, encore, and haze. UU is a tier that naturally prepares for BP because of how especially potent setup mons are in uu meaning that 99% of the time only low level players take L's because of gorebyss and we do not base viability off of low ladder.
Edit: forgot to mention how BP was significantly hindered by BP clause, it is much worse these days
Reserved for Pokemon that have small niches in the UnderUsed metagame, but have numerous notable flaws that prevent them from being effective the majority of the time. Pokemon in the C tier require extensive support to be effective. Pokemon from this rank tend to face a lot of competition with the more commonly used Pokemon, or their niches aren't all too useful for the current metagame.
literally the definition lol
but ya i agree smash passing is pretty mediocre
Milotic is not really D Rank like Trevenant and Scrafty although it is still mediocre so C Rank does make sense.
- Status