CAP 20 CAP 20 - Part 2 - Typing Discussion

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+1 252+ Atk (base 125 Attack Ghost-type) Shadow Claw vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Talonflame: 241-285 (81.1 - 95.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
With Ghost/Fairy we'd need an inflated Attack stat to one-shot T-Flame after a boost, and inflated physical bulk to not be 2HKOed by its Brave Bird. This is assuming rocks are off the field, but you get the idea. 140 PT? Do the calcs, buddy. With 140 PT (approximately), here is the calc. Also just so you're aware, the calc is going off the DD set.
252 Atk Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def (140 PT Ghost/Fairy) : 168-198 (49.8 - 58.7%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
Even if T-Flame has no CB and a neutral nature for Attack, it still is pretty much guaranteed to 2HKO our DD set. Obviously our CM set will have an easier time with T-Flame because it will likely invest in HP, but it's very important for our DD set to not be revenge killed.
I understand your point, but I would like to bring something up: if a set for a CAPmon that is designed to do work against offensive cannot be revenge killed, then how is an opposing offensive team supposed to deal with this Pokemon? Let it sweep their entire team? I recognize that Talonflame is one of the premier revenge killers in OU, but I think you are overselling how important it is to not to lose to Talonflame. Hawlucha loses to Talonflame, yet it is a perfectly viable late-game sweeper. Volcarona was troubled by more than Talonflame in XY, but in ORAS, but it is still capable of pulling its weight in ORAS even with Talonflame existent in the metagame. I am not saying that being weak to Talonflame is not a bad thing, but it really is not necessary that our CAP beats all of the most common revenge killers in OU. At this point, I really feel people want this CAP to be foolproof against revenge killers when we know this is impossible. Being able to beat some of the most common revenge killers is nice, but let's be realistic: every common Pokemon has weaknesses. It is undeniable.

I would like to state something regarding our Calm Mind set. If a Pokemon can cleanly sweep through stall with zero support, isn't that the definition of broken? I recognize that the Calm Mind is supposed to excel against more defensive teams, but a defensive team needs to have some way to deal with it. How is Mew supposed to stallbreak for a team when it does not have a single teammate that can deal with Mega Sableye? How is Keldeo supposed to break stall with Substitute + Calm Mind when (Mega) Slowbro or Mega Venusaur is still present? They use team support. Let's stop trying to make a CAP mon that is foolproof at what it does. If our CAP mon is weak to Ground, then it can have a teammate deal with Ground-types like Landorus-T or Hippowdon by luring them in or by relying on offensive pressure to wear them down. It is not like our CAP mon's Calm Mind set is automatically garbage against stall because there happens to be a couple of Pokemon that fit on stall that can deal with the CAP mon's Calm Mind set. Obviously, the Calm Mind set should be able to do work against stall and is able to resist some common aspects of like (like Poison damage, entry hazards, etc.), but not so good that stall has no chance against it.
 
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I honestly like Ghost/Fairy a lot due to how well the typing compliments each other, although I do admit that it would have issues vs Steel-Types. Much has been said on being immune to either paralysis or toxic, so i feel like this typing has been forgotten a bit due to lacking immunity to either. That said, it is the only pokemon typing available that isn't weak to ground, which is important if we still worry about Lando-T. Besides that, I do think that Water/Steel will wind up winning, which makes sense since it is a pretty good typing. What I haven't seen is is a lot of talk about Poison/Dark though. It has an immunity to Toxic and Psychic, which seem good for going against opposing Calm Mind users, but I cant think of too much more.
 
Being susceptible to Toxic does not in any way pigeonhole us into Poison Heal as an ability. That's just a false assumption. There other abilities which can deal with toxic or burn or even all forms of status (not actually talking about the OP abilities magic guard/bounce). Plus several moves that can heal status. So there's plenty of leeway left if anyone is worrying that any of these typing combos will narrow down options later in the process.

I would like to state something regarding our Calm Mind set. If a Pokemon can cleanly sweep through stall with zero support, isn't that the definition of broken?
No because it needs +6 SpA to be able to do that and even against passive stall teams it isn't really easy to pull off that number.


Anyway Ghost/Fairy is a good typing and yeah does deserve a little more discussion. Two spammable STABs, especially in ghost, chansey being the only thing that it can't hit, and well every CM set will be walled by chansey anyway.
My concern for this combination is maybe the coverage is TOO good. I think Pyroar is the only pokemon that resists both STABs and we're not going to be seeing that in OU any time soon. What does this mean for DD? Like do we run DD, dual STABs and a needless coverage move or some further support move?
It's solid offensively, but defensively it leaves a lot to be desired with only 1 resist alongside 3 immunities (only the dragon immunity is actually significant for this typing combo imo). This could make both switching in and boosting a little bit difficult. It really would have to take advantage of the immunities OR enter the battle after a team member has been KOd.
 
+1 252+ Atk (base 125 Attack Ghost-type) Shadow Claw vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Talonflame: 241-285 (81.1 - 95.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
With Ghost/Fairy we'd need an inflated Attack stat to one-shot T-Flame after a boost, and inflated physical bulk to not be 2HKOed by its Brave Bird. This is assuming rocks are off the field, but you get the idea. 140 PT? Do the calcs, buddy. With 140 PT (approximately), here is the calc. Also just so you're aware, the calc is going off the DD set.
This is assuming no offensive item (which is the entire motivation for using Fairy at all as typing is for offensive typing). This is also assuming Talonflame has some sort of new item that keeps it from taking recoil from Brave Bird. This is also even after the recoil and the hit fail to kill, Shadow Sneak disappears of the face of the earth so that we don't still win anyway.
 

Ununhexium

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Alrighty

So this will be the slate

Water / Steel
Water / Poison
Electric / Fairy
Poison / Dark
Steel / Fairy

Time for polls now :)
 

nyttyn

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So, for the most part, I'm pretty happy with this slate. However, I will be removing Water/Poison from the slate, as it's really just an inferior Water/Steel that's also weak to psyshock - for Calm Mind, I don't think I have to tell you how obnoxious that is.

For this next song, I've gone with something a bit longer, and a bit less...upbeat. It's got a bit of a slow intro, but hear it out - it's pretty top notch.
 
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