Ladder STABmons (the old one)

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EV

Banned deucer.
To clarify, you can theoretically challenge each brain within a 24-hour period assuming you win every match. You could go 1 -> 2 -> 3 -> 4 -> 5 in one day (or however long it takes), no restrictions, but each match must result in a win to continue.

Otherwise, if you lose, you wait 24 hours to start over. I hope that helps anyone still confused.

Also make sure you check post #2 where the frontier is displayed for current bans. Don't get disqualified for being lazy!
 
Lcass4919

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
to be fair to jownage, he DID beat me today before the other battles, however neither of us ended up saving it (i should have at least saved it), so i gave him a chance to beat me again, which i won that game, so decided to give him one last chance, in which he won. lmao. i was being nice and giving him a second(and third) chance since of my own lack of saving the battle. it was a one time thing (and i didnt know about the 24 hour thing gdi) buuut i do now. lol.
 
DinaIsha

DinaIsha

Lcass4919 said:
to be fair to jownage, he DID beat me today before the other battles, however neither of us ended up saving it (i should have at least saved it), so i gave him a chance to beat me again, which i won that game, so decided to give him one last chance, in which he won. lmao. i was being nice and giving him a second(and third) chance since of my own lack of saving the battle. it was a one time thing (and i didnt know about the 24 hour thing gdi) buuut i do now. lol.
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I shall counter team you for the lack of obedience. Nah, just kidding. I don't even have a team. Need to start with one.

Any suggestion and underdogs?
 
Lcass4919

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
DinaIsha said:
I shall counter team you for the lack of obedience. Nah, just kidding. I don't even have a team. Need to start with one.

Any suggestion and underdogs?
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from the battles ive had, tail glow yanma, and guts luxray pretty much teir the teir up given they are given the time to do so, bolt strike ohkoed barbaricle at -2 with flame orb, so that was pretty stronk otherwise i too, am still trying stuff :P
 
xJownage

xJownage

Even pendulums swing both ways
Stabmons NU threats:

Yanma is a beast, but checks aren't too hard to come by. Just don't let it get off a tail glow and you'll be okay. With a tail glow boost and oblivion wing recovery, however, this thing is very hard to take down, and you really need to be careful when playing it as it can sweep at a moments notice.

Luxray has tons and tons of power, almost ridiculously so. This is like sheer force rampardos with boosted head smash w/o recoil in OU (which doesn't exist). Luckily its slow and easy to revenge kill, but don't switch in anything other than bulky grounds (and watch out for facade).

If Barbaracle can get off shell smashes, it can easily win battles; it couldve easily destroyed lcass' team had i been able to set it up. Barbaracle is a beast now that it has decent powered stabs, and while diamond storm doesn't get boosted by tough claws, crabhammer HURTS. It is also decently bulky for the tier.

An odd surprise, Simipour is a decent spout abuser with specs, having tons of raw power and gaining both grass and ice coverage. It has good speed and outspeeds most of the unboosted tier, but be careful for yanmas getting sneaky and trying to get off tail glows.

Liepard is the tiers sableye (well not quite), posing parting shot, memento, encore, taunt, and all kinds of other gems. Its a nice pivot, and although it has no bulk, can do pretty well with a sash.

Scyther hits very hard. Its pin missile will hit for 150 power on 3 hits. Yeah, thats doing a lot of damage, idgaf if its from a bug. Best if you are not using yanma, however. With an eviolite it also has decent bulk, so you could easily set up with it.

Electivire is my scarfer, and I am not disappointed. One of its drawbacks previously was the lack of a strong physical electric stab, but that is fixed in the form of bolt strike. I love it as it can also revenge yanma at full health (as long as no tail glow).

Thats about all I have experienced so far, so yeah. Fun tier though, battles last about a minute lol
 
Pagoose

Pagoose

I am voting for diggersby to be banned, and I want to post my reasoning in the thread. I think it deserves to be banned because:
  • It does not have any solid counters, as all can be dealt with by changing only 1 coverage move.
  • It is capable of easily sweeping entire teams.
  • It it is the most overcentralizing pokemon ever to exist in any metagame I have ever played.
First off, Diggersby has a very small amount of counters, all of which can be dealt with by using 1 coverage move. Ice Punch hits Landorus-Therian, Gliscor, Gengar, Mega Aerodactyl and niche options such as Gourgiest. Head Charge can 2hko defensive behemoths such as Hippowdon and Gliscor, easily 2hkoing traditional counter quagsire, and even scoring a chance of 2hkoing Landorus-Therian after rocks. Finally, the addition of Precipice Blades to its moveset in ORAS allows it to 2hko many pokemon that could just avoid the 2hko, such as Ferrothorn, Quagsire, Mega Sableye, Mega Scizor, Porygon2 and more. The only 100% hard counter to Diggersby is Skarmory, but Skarmory is ass lol. The lack of counters combined with the fact that almost all of them can be dealt with without hurting its effectiveness makes it really hard to deal with unless you are using full stall.
-1 252+ Atk Huge Power Diggersby Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Landorus-T: 224-264 (58.6 - 69.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252+ Atk Silk Scarf Huge Power Diggersby Head Charge vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Landorus-T: 157-186 (41 - 48.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Huge Power Diggersby Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 56+ Def Gliscor: 304-360 (85.8 - 101.6%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Silk Scarf Huge Power Diggersby Head Charge vs. 252 HP / 56+ Def Gliscor: 219-258 (61.8 - 72.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
252+ Atk Huge Power Diggersby Fire Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mega Scizor: 316-376 (92.1 - 109.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Diggersby Precipice Blades vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mega Scizor: 190-225 (55.3 - 65.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Silk Scarf Huge Power Diggersby Head Charge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 195-231 (46.4 - 55%) -- 64.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Huge Power Diggersby Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 288-340 (81.8 - 96.5%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Huge Power Diggersby Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 169-201 (48 - 57.1%) -- 90.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

I think the last suspect was held too early, and that the new ORAS moves still needed time to sink in. Last suspect I opposed a diggersby ban, but now I completely agree with a ban. The new coverage moves allow it to break the only things that can take extremespeed way too easily, allowing it to consistantly sweep through teams.

Aside from basically fitting the standard definition of broken, Diggersby also over centralizes the metagame hugely. Even moreso than ridiculous stuff like OU Kangaskhan and Ubers Mega Ray. You are literally, and I mean literally putting yourself at a disadvantage if you don't use Diggersby. I don't know if anyone else has noticed this, but teams with Diggersby in then are far better than teams without them, and you will win more. It's like how having things like scarfers or prankster t-wave give you more room to play aound threats, except it can revenge any pokemon in the entire game except for M-Aero. There is a reason that roughly 90% out of the 100 or so teams w0rd submitted to the team archive have Diggersby in it. A big factor in deciding whether something is banworthy is looking at the effect on the meta, and when something is that good it warps the meta hugely. For example, I voted to ban metagrossite in ou because I liked the meta way better without it, even though I didn't think it was broken.

I'm kind of rambling here, but the point is I think that the post-Diggersby meta will be better than the Diggersby meta, because Diggersby is really broken and over centralizing. I have already addressed concerns about the meta becoming more stally, and Eevee General has addressed concerns that setup sweepers will run rampent by showing that other fakespeeders are adequate to revenge them without being so ridiculous. I want to see what the meta is like without this overpowered thing in the game.
 
Ghoul King

Ghoul King

Pagoose said:
Skarmory is a 100% hard counter to Diggersby
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252+ Atk Huge Power Diggersby Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 146-172 (43.7 - 51.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

I dunno, I'm not seeing it. This isn't Life Orb, Banded, or Belly Drummed, and it has a shot at 2HKOing Physically Defensive Skarmory if it has no Leftovers.

Also note that Scarfed Diggersby outspeeds Mega Aerodactyl and does

252+ Atk Huge Power Diggersby Wild Charge vs. 0 HP / 44 Def Mega Aerodactyl: 276-326 (91.6 - 108.3%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

this.
 

EV

Banned deucer.
Ghoul King said:
252+ Atk Huge Power Diggersby Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 146-172 (43.7 - 51.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

I dunno, I'm not seeing it. This isn't Life Orb, Banded, or Belly Drummed, and it has a shot at 2HKOing Physically Defensive Skarmory if it has no Leftovers.

Also note that Scarfed Diggersby outspeeds Mega Aerodactyl and does

252+ Atk Huge Power Diggersby Wild Charge vs. 0 HP / 44 Def Mega Aerodactyl: 276-326 (91.6 - 108.3%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

this.
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Besides the three of us being on the same side, tbf Skarmory can King's Shield and then Roost off the damage, but even that isn't a guarantee because a smart player will burn the KS turn with Precipice Blades.

I wish Pagoose had at least mentioned by boy Tang. :( It doesn't get the love it deserves.

Anyway, the council has almost finished voting. Just waiting on Ellipse and insanelegend to post in our convo.
 
Lcass4919

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
Eevee General said:
Besides the three of us being on the same side, tbf Skarmory can King's Shield and then Roost off the damage, but even that isn't a guarantee because a smart player will burn the KS turn with Precipice Blades.

I wish Pagoose had at least mentioned by boy Tang. :( It doesn't get the love it deserves.

Anyway, the council has almost finished voting. Just waiting on Ellipse and insanelegend to post in our convo.
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with all due respect eevee,

252+ Atk Life Orb Huge Power Diggersby Head Charge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 204-242 (50.6 - 60%) -- 85.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Silk Scarf Huge Power Diggersby Head Charge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 187-222 (46.4 - 55%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

however rare it may be, life orb/silk scarf head charge diggers is a thing and can 2hko tangrowth(99% chance with sr for silk scarfs case) which is a massive pain for it trying to switch in. OR it can just u-turn on it, giving diggers momentum. in a theoretical sense regenerator helps tangrowth switch into head charges, however, it cannot stay in, and thus, potentially can risk you losing a poke anyways without packing ANOTHER diggersby counter
 

EV

Banned deucer.
Thanks all for being patient. The results are in!

4 Ban / 1 DNB

The evidence is overwhelming: You must account for Diggersby or you will be at a disadvantage, especially if you don't use one yourself. The ORAS tutors, as mentioned before, amped up the pressure Diggersby exerts on the metagame. The fact that it can morph back into a setup sweeper once its checks are gone is the nail in the coffin. Notice how Skarmory is used much less, even though it's still a good check? And how Landorus-T is slowly becoming more offensive than defensive? These are organic changes in the metagame that should be allowed to happen but which are impeded by Diggersby. With it gone we expect the metagame to expand and incorporate a more diverse cast of threats, both offensive and defensive.

Also, the "there are no other good FakeSpeeders/revengers" argument hanging over our heads in the last suspects is just too big of a fallacy to accept anymore. I posted about potential replacements earlier in this thread. If we find threats are suddenly too hard to contain, however, we will address them as necessary.

Anyway, say bye-bye. The bunny is dead, stewed, and served piping hot. Enjoy!
 
Lcass4919

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
The Reptile said:
The bunny is dead.

Time for a huge shift in the meta. Rev up those birds/bears/dogs!
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the allmighty sad kangaroo mother is sad.

on a different note. i took a rather bizzare turn for our doggy friend, and hes been proving to be effective for my crappy regenvest/intimidate spam team.

Stoutland @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Swords Dance
- Recover
- Crunch
- ExtremeSpeed

bulky setup stout, whaaaaaaa?! y u no bdrum scrappeh...well i will tell you why, trades immence coverage and sheer overkill factor, for walling...ness.. relyability.. plenty of setup chances at any moment in a battle, and a consistent threat to every team archeotype. vs offense, it can easily wall many powerful hits, and then set up on would be threats like aerodactyl, talonflame, thundurus, physical kyurem, azumarill, and even ursaring. and versus stall it can set up more then once maintaining offensive pressure, while also being able to stand its ground unlike its scrappy bdrum counterpart. all in all, its a good replacement for teams that would rather have pokemon that aren't completely useless vs offense. :P
 
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