Murkrow [QC: 3/3] [GP 2/2]

kevinrocks

Merry Wanderer of the Night
QC: Anty, Magnemite and Tone114
GP: Ununhexium w/ Snobalt, P Squared
[OVERVIEW]

Murkow's Dark / Flying typing lets it hit most of the metagame relatively hard with its STAB moves plus a coverage move. Murkrow can also function as a revenge killer and late-game cleaner with Sucker Punch. Its typing also gives it two immunities to common offensive types in Psychic and Ground, letting it switch in on offensive threats such as Beheeyem. On top of this, Murkrow gets access to Prankster, a rare but useful ability in PU, allowing it to paralyze many of the faster Pokemon in the metagame and stop a variety of utility moves with Taunt. However, a look at Murkrow's defensive stats reveals a big downside; its poor bulk doesn't go well with its weaknesses to common attacking types in Electric, Rock, Ice, and to a lesser extent Fairy. Common Pokemon such as Piloswine and Zebstrika can take advantage of this. Although it has good offensive stats, they are not amazing, forcing Murkrow to run Life Orb to give it the boost it needs to get some KOs. Another downside is that Murkrow is weak to Stealth Rock, and when this is combined with Life Orb recoil, Murkrow can be revenge killed quite easily. Murkrow faces competition from Dodrio, which is more potent in typing and stats, but Murkrow has Prankster as well as a much more powerful priority move, and Dodrio lacks the Special Attack that Murkrow has.

[SET]
name: Life Orb
move 1: Brave Bird
move 2: Sucker Punch
move 3: Hidden Power Fighting / Hidden Power Grass
move 4: Thunder Wave / Taunt
item: Life Orb
ability: Prankster
nature: Naive
evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe


[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Brave Bird is Murkrow's hardest hitting STAB move and packs quite the punch, but you should use it carefully, as the heavy recoil is nasty. Sucker Punch is a powerful STAB priority move, bypassing Murkrow's mediocre Speed and letting it pick off weakened foes. The third move is up to preference and what helps your team the most; Hidden Power Grass can hit Pokemon such as Golem really hard, while Hidden Power Fighting hits Probopass harder. Lastly, Thunder Wave can slow down offensive threats or be used as a last-ditch effort, while Taunt lets Murkrow stop bulkier Pokemon such as Grumpig and Probopass from using status moves.

Set Details
========

A spread of 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe maximizes the power of Murkrow's attacks, and enhances its Speed, allowing it to outspeed a few threats such as Mr. Mime, while a Naive nature further boosts Murkrow's Speed without hindering its Special Attack or Attack. Note that Murkrow can switch into Stealth Rock four times with this set. Life Orb allows Murkrow to get some crucial KOs, such as a guaranteed OHKO on Roselia with Brave Bird after Stealth Rock damage.

Usage Tips
========

Murkrow is a wallbreaker; it has coverage to hit common walls very hard and can outspeed a few offensive threats such as Monferno and Arbok. However, if you bring it in on a foe that it doesn't scare out or KO, it can get knocked out very easily. As Murkrow really lacks the bulk to switch in, it's best either to bring it in freely after a teammate is KOed or to Volt Switch or U-turn into it. Great options to fill this role are Probopass and Pelipper, although Pelipper shares many of Murkrow's weaknesses. Weaken the opposing team with entry hazards and constant pressure, and clean up afterwards with Sucker Punch. If you choose to run Taunt, capitalize on obvious status moves to keep forcing switches into the entry hazards. If Thunder Wave is chosen, note that you can sacrifice Murkrow if it means stopping a sweep with Thunder Wave.

Team Options
========

As you want to give Murkrow the most uses of its Life Orb, a Defog or Rapid Spin user is a good idea. Pelipper, Vibrava, and Torkoal are good options, providing support while resisting some of Murkrow's weaknesses. Piloswine and Probopass are useful teammates, as they resist some more of Murkrow's weaknesses and are able to set up Stealth Rock. Another good entry hazard setter is Roselia, which can set up Spikes and Toxic Spikes and absorb status with Natural Cure. Despite these bulkier Pokemon being suggested, a team leaning towards offense will keep up pressure and force switches with your entry hazards up, as well as give you more options for teammates. Last but not least, Volt Switch and U-turn users are important to get momentum and a free switch. Probopass and Pelipper can provide a slow Volt Switch and U-turn, respectively, and other Pokemon such as Zebstrika can also fill this role.


[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Any non-offensive set should be coupled with Eviolite, giving Murkrow's pitiful defensive stats a meaningful boost. Calm Mind has many checks but still sees some light in the metagame. Another set option is a Prankster set, making full use of the ability, but Murkrow is lacking a bit in bulk, is weak to Stealth Rock, and relies on constant recovery and luck. Perish trapping is more effective on Murkrow than other Pokemon due to Prankster, but it generally only works on less experienced or less cautious opponents. Another option is Torment, which is tricky to use but can mess up your opponent's plans and force out users of Choice items. Finally, Murkrow can provide support by setting up a priority Rain Dance or Sunny Day, which is important on weather teams. However, Volbeat also does this well and possibly better, as it provides Encore support, access to U-turn, and the ability to hold the respective weather rocks, which Murkrow lacks the ability to do.


Checks & Counters
===================

**Residual Damage**: Stealth Rock takes a big chunk of Murkrow's health off every time it switches in, and when it is combined with an attack from the foe, Murkrow won't be hard to knock out. Furthermore, Life Orb already puts Murkrow on a timer and gives it a set number of attacks that it can use. Similarly, status effects greatly hinder its offensive presence, and because Murkrow doesn't usually run Roost, any residual damage can be devastating.

**Defensive Pokemon**: Some Pokemon can easily take Murkrow's hits and KO it. Furthermore, a variety of Pokemon can capitalize on Murkrow's coverage depending on which Hidden Power it has. Not having Hidden Power Grass will let the likes of Golem avoid KOs, and not having Hidden Power Fighting will let Probopass wall Murkrow.

**Faster Pokemon**: Despite Murkrow's impressive Speed stat, some Pokemon are faster or carry Choice Scarf and are powerful enough to KO Murkrow, such as Sawsbuck, Simipour, and Floatzel. However, these Pokemon don't appreciate getting paralyzed, and if Murkrow can get them to below half health, Sucker Punch can pick them off.


**Electric-types**: Electric-types are immune to Thunder Wave and are usually very fast. Murkrow's only means of doing damage to them is with Sucker Punch, and most Electric-types can take this and KO back or predict this and set up. For example, Raichu can get a Nasty Plot off, but predicting this and trying to go for Taunt can just as easily get Murkrow KOed on the overprediction.

**Rock-types**: Even though Murkrow has either Hidden Power Fighting or Hidden Power Grass, Rock-types such as Armaldo can often tank these attacks and KO back with a STAB move.
 
Last edited:
Hi friend :). We spoke over Showdown! about some stuff, but I'd like to post in this thread some stuff to change as well.

Overview:
  • Mention how Thunder Wave is great to halt setup sweepers
  • Be sure to stress how awesome priority Thunder Wave is as well
  • Also how Foul Play works well in tandem with this because boosted sweepers don't like it
  • Possibly mention that it has reliable recovery to repeatedly work
  • Mention that it sucks when facing Pokemon w/ Substitute
  • Mention that it receives competition from Meowstic which also accomplishes priority Thunder Wave
The set I'd put first is:

Prankster
########
name: Prankster
move 1: Thunder Wave
move 2: Foul Play
move 3: Roost
move 4: Taunt / Haze
ability: Prankster
item: Eviolite
evs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
nature: Bold

Be sure to put spaces between : and the stuff as well! Small nitpick, put 4 HP EVs into SpD to minimize entry hazard damage.

Will edit in comments when you do as well :].

Also, as I said, all things need to be in bullet form not written.
 

Punchshroom

FISHIOUS REND MEGA SHARPEDO
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributor
Mention in Other Options that offensive Murkrow may seem appealing but is outclassed by Dodrio.

Taunt + Sucker Punch isn't that great a combo on Murkrow since it must either sacrifice power or bulk.

Mention that Torment can also force out Choiced Pokemon, at the expense of Murkrow's health, or even life.
 
Defog should be AT LEAST in oo even thought it deserves moves of the first set imo
 
name: Life Orb
move 1: Brave Bird
move 2: Sucker Punch
move 3: Hidden Power Grass / Heat Wave
move 4: Tailwind / Taunt
ability: Prankster
item: Life Orb
evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
nature: Naive

I feel as though a set such as this should get some sort of mention, if not a main set. It's a pretty solid immediate attacker, and Sucker Punch is pleasantly strong. It obviously competes somewhat for a team slot with Sneasel (in the sense that they're both SR-weak, Dark-type glass cannons), who has a better Speed tier and a little more broad application, but Murkrow's ability to go mixed and provide Prankster team support, when supplemented by high-BP moves, gives it a solid enough niche imo.

BB and Sucker are fairly self-explanatory, so I'll leave those be. HP Grass mostly targets Golem, whilst Heat Wave hits Avalugg (who, even when running fully SpDef, still is hit for ~45-50% with no investment), and I considered mentioning Dark Pulse in that slot for this reason (which allows it to take on defensive Ghost-types with a little more certainty). Priority Tailwind is just a great offensive utility, and can really set up a strong end-game vs.opposing offense, whereas Taunt's application is mostly in the defensive match-up, preventing Defog and recovery / status from the opponent. It's a bird, and a mixed breaker to boot, so it flourishes with Spike support, so that may be something worth noting. It pairs well with Pokemon that appreciate those breaking abilities to set up their sweep, since, ideally, this Pokemon is mainly be played in the mid-game. Stuff like Scarf Tauros, assorted Electric-types, and so forth make good partners for this reason.
 
Substitute is worth a big mention, if not a slash, on the Calm Mind set. It's arguably more useful than Feather Dance. Preventing status on a slow setup sweeper like Murkrow is very useful, and since Murkrow is surprisingly physically bulky when fully invested with Eviolite, Murkrow's subs will survive pretty much all Knock Offs (which is great because Murkrow is heavy Knock Off bait, so this provides setup opportunities), as well as other weak moves: 4 Atk Throh Circle Throw vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Murkrow: 51-61 (15.7 - 18.8%) -- possible 6HKO
 

kevinrocks

Merry Wanderer of the Night
Thanks for all of the replies! I'm working on adding everything in, but just a note that Defog is incompatible with Prankster, since defog is gen 4, and Prankster is gen 5 :P
 

Punchshroom

FISHIOUS REND MEGA SHARPEDO
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributor
name: Life Orb
move 1: Brave Bird
move 2: Sucker Punch
move 3: Hidden Power Grass / Heat Wave
move 4: Tailwind / Taunt
ability: Prankster
item: Life Orb
evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
nature: Naive

I feel as though a set such as this should get some sort of mention, if not a main set. It's a pretty solid immediate attacker, and Sucker Punch is pleasantly strong. It obviously competes somewhat for a team slot with Sneasel (in the sense that they're both SR-weak, Dark-type glass cannons), who has a better Speed tier and a little more broad application, but Murkrow's ability to go mixed and provide Prankster team support, when supplemented by high-BP moves, gives it a solid enough niche imo.

BB and Sucker are fairly self-explanatory, so I'll leave those be. HP Grass mostly targets Golem, whilst Heat Wave hits Avalugg (who, even when running fully SpDef, still is hit for ~45-50% with no investment), and I considered mentioning Dark Pulse in that slot for this reason (which allows it to take on defensive Ghost-types with a little more certainty). Priority Tailwind is just a great offensive utility, and can really set up a strong end-game vs.opposing offense, whereas Taunt's application is mostly in the defensive match-up, preventing Defog and recovery / status from the opponent. It's a bird, and a mixed breaker to boot, so it flourishes with Spike support, so that may be something worth noting. It pairs well with Pokemon that appreciate those breaking abilities to set up their sweep, since, ideally, this Pokemon is mainly be played in the mid-game. Stuff like Scarf Tauros, assorted Electric-types, and so forth make good partners for this reason.
I'd imagine this set facing more competition from Dodrio, which also has Brave Bird and a Dark move in Knock Off, plus better speed and power. I'm not sure if Prankster alone is able to separate Krow from Dodrio as a whole.
 
The one thing that I've seen (using my trollcrow) that Murkrow has over all other pranksters is: Roost.

No other Prankster user gets HP recovery, period - and bonus, it removes its weaknesses to rock/ice/thunder, which lets a Murkrow with Eviolite live through almost anything (Though not a predicted Megamewtwo-x face punch, as I found out last night, though Toxic did for his Freeza-looking mug...) Considering the stalling you can do with Priority Toxic + Roost + Sub, that should be the main set bar none. Thunder Wave or Taunt in the final slot cripples setup, Mean Look RUINS walls with Toxic stalling, Feather Dance harms physical attackers for the rest of your team, Perish Song (with the aforementioned stalling) is a pretty reliable KO, and Foul Play prevents you from being taunt bait or mauls setup attackers.
 

kevinrocks

Merry Wanderer of the Night
The one thing that I've seen (using my trollcrow) that Murkrow has over all other pranksters is: Roost.

No other Prankster user gets HP recovery, period - and bonus, it removes its weaknesses to rock/ice/thunder, which lets a Murkrow with Eviolite live through almost anything (Though not a predicted Megamewtwo-x face punch, as I found out last night, though Toxic did for his Freeza-looking mug...) Considering the stalling you can do with Priority Toxic + Roost + Sub, that should be the main set bar none. Thunder Wave or Taunt in the final slot cripples setup, Mean Look RUINS walls with Toxic stalling, Feather Dance harms physical attackers for the rest of your team, Perish Song (with the aforementioned stalling) is a pretty reliable KO, and Foul Play prevents you from being taunt bait or mauls setup attackers.
hey iamfanboy, thanks for the feedback. The thing is, i sort of already said most of this, just in different places. I'll add some of it though, just not a full set slot :)
 
hey iamfanboy, thanks for the feedback. The thing is, i sort of already said most of this, just in different places. I'll add some of it though, just not a full set slot :)
Well, it's just that Murkrow does have one significant advantage in Roost over all the other Pranksters, and it's enough of an advantage to note - after all, it means that many 2HKOs turns into 5-6, and the only move that still stays SFE on him after a Roost is Fairy. Considering most coverage moves (that'd be aimed at a Murkrow) are Rock/Ice/Thunder, according to my calculations (and experience!) you can take an SFE hit after a Toxic, Roost, have enough HP for a sub, and then continue to Roost/Sub until the target is gone. Or hold him back til a wall goes in, Mean Look it, and then stall him to death.

To give you an idea of its staying power, a Careful 252 HP/252 SPD can stall the OU All Out Attacker Greninja indefinitely, barring crits. That's a tough Pokemon.

I'm not saying that it makes Murkrow an actual competitive pokemon (for all my joy in trolling with him), but Roost is a strong point in his favor, and deserves to be given top billing as his one unique attribute among Pranksters.
 

WhiteDMist

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Overview
- Except for Speed, you don't list the base stats of the Pokemon as they can easily be seen by scrolling up in the analysis.
- What is Murkrow's role in PU? I gained very little from the Overview, except for the fact that priority T-Wave is amazing (don't blow it out of proportion though). Seriously, after I ignore all the dex info fluff and possibly merge related stuff together, I get only Prankster Twave and typing (which you don't elaborate on).
- You might want to explain why you would use Murkrow over stuff like Vullaby (same type, has Defog), Volbeat (slow U-turn, Prankster TWave, Roost, and Encore), Meowstic-M (Prankster TWave, Dual Screens, and Heal Bell, better bulk), etc. Right now, you aren't making Murkrow very appealing since all it has is Prankster TWave.
- You seriously don't need to have pros and cons, some of your cons can be appended to some of your pros so that they actually flow together much more effectively.

Your Team Options are lacking. You provide no examples, you list obvious partners, and you don't even list stuff that really works with Murkrow.

Your Usage Tips are lacking as well. For example, the first set advises players to bring Murkrow in with a slow pivot move to stop a sweeper. It seems more practical to advise them to switch Murkrow in on the set up, or after a KO, to TWave them. I mean, if they are setting up, your U-turn/Volt Switch mon will likely be KOed anyways. And what priority should Murkrow watch out for?

What do you get from naming set 2 "Bulky Set Up" that you don't get from "Calm Mind"? The set should be ordered by the most important move as well, with CM, Roost, Dark Pulse, and Substitute/Feather Dance being the order. Usae Tips and Team Options for set 2 are just as lacking.

Offensive should be the first mention in OO, with stuff like Brave Bird, Sucker Punch, Roost, and HP Grass/Water being pretty decent.

C&C need examples, and I will look them over later to see how accurate they are.

The QC team will not be holding hands with analyses, so I suggest playing around with Murkrow some more and adding more useful content to this kevinrocks
 

WhiteDMist

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Ok, Overview is still lacking. Sheer number of bullet points doesn't make up for the fact that there is no useful information about Murkrow's role in the metagame. Try merging some of these tidbits, and add points about why you should use Murkrow at all.

Checks and Counters has examples now, but I still am not happy with it. Frost Breath users is a bad check, as very few Pokemon run Frost Breath. Chatot is NOT acceptable as a check or counter. That is sheer hax, which is not accounted for in this section. Set up mons aren't a check, unless you name some that actually set up safely against CM Murkrow. Powerful Offensive Pokemon should be the name, not wallbreakers. You don't even list Electric-types, who are immune to TWave and threaten Murkrow with their STAB.

Some QC members also want TWave as the main slash on the CM set, removing Feather Dance. We aren't sure of the viability of the Prankster set either.

I'm just generally not satisfied with the quality of this analysis right now. I won't reassign, but please try to remove all the unnecessary fluff and add in relevant information. QC will provide some help, but remember that YOU are the writer so the brunt of the work falls on you.
 
Hi kevinrocks if you're still working on this the sets should be CM and the LO set 49 posted (with thunder wave as the 1st slash of the 4th slot), with the generic Prankster set being more OO material.
 

Ares

Fool me...can't get fooled again
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I'm still noticing points that were left over from the last set, pls go back through and reread things so you can update accordingly.
 

WhiteDMist

Path>Goal
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I'm iffy on the CM set, it takes so long to set up and it's hardly a bulky juggernaut even with full investment in defense. I'd at least make it second, though I'm actually thinking it can be removed altogether. The LO set is much better (it's frail as hell though).

Please remove the useless information from the Overview, the stuff you can already look up on the Dex.

There's a new format as well, please adjust and I'll look it over kevinrocks
 

kevinrocks

Merry Wanderer of the Night
If i understood how the formatting worked properly, then I am done formatting. I moved Calm Mind down to second, but will remove it if it ends up being hard to use like you said.
 

Martin

A monoid in the category of endofunctors
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IMO, the generic prankster set that was relegated to OO a while back should be on the main analysis instead of OO. The utility of a Prankster 'mon is huge, and Murkrow's supportive movepool is so good that there isn't much reason IMO why a set of Encore+Taunt/T-Wave+Roost+Filler shouldn't be listed tbh.
 

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