ORAS Doubles Viability Rankings [Nominations]

[qwerts]

I feel that Genesect should move up into A, into where I do not know, but why I think this is because can support a setup sweeper such as Manaphy with Simple Beam so it gets +6 off of the Tail Glow than the usual 3, making it more of a threat. I also think Manaphy should move up to B- for this reason. It loses Hydration, but Manaphy would still resist Water although losing it's immunity to it.

Simple beam isn't a viable strategy, and manaphy is very niche at best. Furthermore this is for nominations moving through or into the B rank, not into A rank. If you're new to doubles check out the overview and front page of these viability rankings as well as the doubles forums to get a feel for the tier.

 

[xzern]

C -> B+

C -> B
Blaziken is seriously underrated at the moment, and I believe that it needs more justice. Whenever I use it on the ladder, the response is either "ur using an UBER????????? in SMOGON doubles?????????????" or "you're using blaziken? lol". The mega forme is rather lackluster (life orb blaziken does slightly more damage if i'm not mistaken), but it shouldn't be C-rank or unranked. If you use Jolly, you're able to outspeed and still 2HKO scarfed Lando-T after an Intimidate drop. However, if you want to do as much damage as possible and use Adamant, Blaziken is still able to outspeed pretty much the entire tier (unless im missing something) after just two turns of Speed Boost.

-1 252 Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 44 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 175-208 (53 - 63%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Lando cannot switchin to Blaziken; it will get 2HKO'd. After the turn of switching, Blaziken will be able to outspeed from speed boost if it's max speed.

edit: now nominating it for B+ rather than B, nominating the mega forme for B

 

[Pastelle]

Escavalier: B -> B+

This thing is a staple on most Trick Room and Rain teams, and even though Rain is losing its touch, Escavalier certainly isn't. Bulky Steel types are a must on several different team archetypes, and Escavalier has great bulk, and still provides a strong offensive presence.

• Excellent Defensive typing + Overcoat
• Great bulk with Assault Vest, and great damage output with Life Orb. Lum Berry is cool too though
• Cool movepool with cool STAB attacks and cool coverage
• Its easy to fit on a variety of teams, and does a good job playing as a win condition late game

Long story short; it's versatile, easy to use, and overall a cool mon that is more viable than the list gives it credit for.

EDIT: I have one more

Mega Sceptile: B -> B-
Mega Grass lizard is strong, but overall is niche and difficult to use since its OHKO'd by almost anything.

• Lightningrod is a supporting ability, but it doesn't have the Defenses to support. (70/75/85 is medicore at best)
• It's typing makes it very circumstantial to actually use effectively, since its weak to so many common Doubles offensive types
• Discharge spam is a bad gimmick
• Mega Grass lizard is best suited on a rain team, and there are so man better Megas to use on that type of team (Mega Manectric, Mega Swampert, etc.)

In general; its too frail and a waste of a Mega slot, and I don't see worth for it in the current metagame. If you want a Lightningrod user, you're better off using Rhyperior

 

[shrop]

Salamence
From B+ --------> B-

• Base 100 speed is no longer fast
• Mega Diancie
• Only having one stab as a dragon sucks because literally every other good dragon has awesome dual stabs
• Normal mence had a niche when mega salamence was running around because you could bluff mega and bop things with scarf but you can no longer bluff mega
• Base 110 Special attack is very average and it doesn't have the movepool to really make its 135 base attack stat work
• I don't really see a reason why I would use mence over KYUB, Latios, Hydreigon
• Sure having intimidate is nice, but there are better intimidate users you can have and have another dragon

I also completely agree with the blaziken and mega sceptile noms but I'm still iffy on the escav one

 

[Hashtag]

Charizard Mega X for B.
its a cool mid-to-late game sweeper with dragon dance, with strong stab moves and an interesting typing. People always discount the Bulk of charizards, but with a decent EV spread, you can survive a lot of hits. Its currently unranked largely because the megas used to be ranked at the same place as the nonmega. It is also pretty cool because you can bluff a Char Y.

Venusaur Mega for B,
This mon is also unranked for the same reasons as Char-X, and this is possibly the best bulky mega with 80/123/120 defenses and a great typing. It has high base power moves in Leaf Storm and Sludge bomb, and can even afford to run support options like sleep powder and leech seed. I recently saw cyco vision using an amnesia/synthesis set, that resulted in pp stall vs my heatran. This is another notable set, because it very quickly sets up, and if you were able to take out its checks beforehand, it just flat out wins

 

[xzern]

Charizard Mega X for B.
its a cool mid-to-late game sweeper with dragon dance, with strong stab moves and an interesting typing. People always discount the Bulk of charizards, but with a decent EV spread, you can survive a lot of hits. Its currently unranked largely because the megas used to be ranked at the same place as the nonmega. It is also pretty cool because you can bluff a Char Y.

I strongly agree with Charizard X rising. I even think that it could/should be higher than B, but I'll leave that for the community to determine. I've had lots of success using Charizard X on the ladder, although I havent used it in any tours yet. The main reason for its ability to function so well is that basically everyone expects you to be running Charizard Y, because it is/was so much more common. In the turn that someone uses Thunderbolt or something on your Charizard, you can easily Mega Evolve and set up a Dragon Dance. Not only that, but people tend to underestimate Charizard X's raw physical power. It manages to OHKO Landorus-T (without an attack boost, assuming you have +1 from ddance and intimidate dropped it) and it does a hefty amount of damage to Mega Kangaskhan. It also has some really good typing, which allows it to resist/take neutral damage from what would normally OHKO a Charizard Y.

 

[Darkmalice]

C -> B+

C -> B
Blaziken is seriously underrated at the moment, and I believe that it needs more justice. Whenever I use it on the ladder, the response is either "ur using an UBER????????? in SMOGON doubles?????????????" or "you're using blaziken? lol". The mega forme is rather lackluster (life orb blaziken does slightly more damage if i'm not mistaken), but it shouldn't be C-rank or unranked. If you use Jolly, you're able to outspeed and still 2HKO scarfed Lando-T after an Intimidate drop. However, if you want to do as much damage as possible and use Adamant, Blaziken is still able to outspeed pretty much the entire tier (unless im missing something) after just two turns of Speed Boost.

-1 252 Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 44 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 175-208 (53 - 63%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Lando cannot switchin to Blaziken; it will get 2HKO'd. After the turn of switching, Blaziken will be able to outspeed from speed boost if it's max speed.

edit: now nominating it for B+ rather than B, nominating the mega forme for B

Your point about Lando switching into Blaziken, whilst theoretically correct, is in practice not the case.

Blaziken is often forced to Protect first turn in order to get a Speed boost thanks to its average 80 base Speed (this happens easily over 50% of the time, so don't say this is a 50:50 prediction). This means Lando-T isn't switching into a Flare Blitz. Lando-T also generally avoids switching in on an obvious Fire-type attack.

This also doesn't take in account Blaziken's fraility, particularly when considering LO and Flare Blitz recoil. It dies even to unboosted Scalds (Politoed OHKOes thanks to rain, and Suicune's will OHKO after Blaziken inevitable damages itself). It doesn't help that it has some common weaknesses. Consequently, Blaziken is very reliant on its Speed stat, which means it can be screwed over by TR, Twave and Tailwind.

I would not be opposed to seeing regular Blaziken move up to C+ though (regular, not mega - it's not worth the mega slot).

I don't really see a reason why I would use mence over KYUB, Latios, Hydreigon
Sure having intimidate is nice, but there are better intimidate users you can have and have another dragon

It's the combination of Intimidate and being a specially attacking Dragon-type together as to why you use Salamence, usually with Tailwind as well. And unlike Latios, it can check Steel-types with its Fire-types attacks, also Hydro Pump for Heatran and a stronger hit on Lando-T if you don't need Tailwind.

You could have Intimidate and a different Dragon-type on the same team, though you do only get 6 Pokemon...

 

[shrop]

Okay I guess I had bad wording when I said "I don't really see a reason why I would use mence over KYUB, Latios, Hydreigon". I do see why Salamence would be used (which is exactly what you said about it), I just feel that you can do the same thing with other mons. For example, I could run Hydreigon and Lando-t and do exactly what mence does. Sure I would have to use two mons, but I feel that 9/10 times this duo would outclass mence even though they fulfill the same roles. I think I did a really bad job at explaining this lol but idk this is just how i see it.

 

[Aasgier]

Where's Gliscor in the rankings? Toxic Orb means it can't be statused, and while it lacks Intimidate over LAndorus, it does have Roost and Taunt. On semistall (we all know why not to run full stall in Doubles), I can see it having a niche.
Gliscor has a bit of 4MSS (Protect, Roost, Taunt, Earthquake, Knock Off) but it can wall stuff and is pretty hard to wear down.

FerroCent appears to be STILL decent lol, despite Zard Y and such running around... damn, I didn't play Doubles for way too long. I made a blanket semistall team and gave the ladder a go again.

 

[Mizuhime]

Where's Gliscor in the rankings? Toxic Orb means it can't be statused, and while it lacks Intimidate over LAndorus, it does have Roost and Taunt. On semistall (we all know why not to run full stall in Doubles), I can see it having a niche.
Gliscor has a bit of 4MSS (Protect, Roost, Taunt, Earthquake, Knock Off) but it can wall stuff and is pretty hard to wear down.

FerroCent appears to be STILL decent lol, despite Zard Y and such running around... damn, I didn't play Doubles for way too long. I made a blanket semistall team and gave the ladder a go again.

Please take some time to learn the metagame, Gliscor has, and never will be viable as it's outclassed in nearly every way possible by more than 1 Pokemon.

 

[Aasgier]

For now I don't have any good battles yet anyway, only facing noobs who think gimmicks are fun, get stalled to death because they can't break either Ferrothorn or Jellicent (or both), or because MegaGross sweeps them. (7 victories, 0 losses at the moment of writing)

 

[blinkie]

Tangela for C rank

Has access to supporting moves such as Rage Powder, Sleep Powder, Stun Spore, and also better bulk than Tangrowth on both sides with Eviolite equipped. Base 100 SpA is usable so it has some offensive presence with Giga Drain or Leaf Storm. Regenerator keeps it healthy when it pivots out. If you invest in defense, it has serious bulk, for example, it can live Victini V-create(lol???). Also an advantage it has as a redirection user is that it takes nothing from most spread moves such as EQ, Rock Slide, but watch out for Heat Wave lel. It probably shouldn't be above the C ranks though seeing as it has bad special bulk and also other mons like Amoonguss can perform similar roles. Tagging user KyleCole as he also has experience with Tangela, and can explain better than me.

252+ Atk Flame Plate Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Tangela: 284-336 (85 - 100.5%)

 

[Pastelle]

Tangela for C rank

Has access to supporting moves such as Rage Powder, Sleep Powder, Stun Spore, and also better bulk than Tangrowth on both sides with Eviolite equipped. Base 100 SpA is usable so it has some offensive presence with Giga Drain or Leaf Storm. Regenerator keeps it healthy when it pivots out. If you invest in defense, it has serious bulk, for example, it can live Victini V-create(lol???). Also an advantage it has as a redirection user is that it takes nothing from most spread moves such as EQ, Rock Slide, but watch out for Heat Wave lel. It probably shouldn't be above the C ranks though seeing as it has bad special bulk and also other mons like Amoonguss can perform similar roles. Tagging user KyleCole as he also has experience with Tangela, and can explain better than me.

252+ Atk Flame Plate Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Tangela: 284-336 (85 - 100.5%)

I wouldn't be opposed to Tangela moving, but as xzern put it...

Remember to make sure that your nominations are concerning pokemon that are moving to or throughout the B tiers.

This was a good post, but we should probably wait on this one until we get to the C-rank nominations

 

[Yellow Paint]

Nitpicks:
Slowbro(mega) instead of Slowbro

Aerodactyl(mega) B ->B-
Although aero still has its speed, it has largely been outclassed by diancie, who hits much harder, has a better movepool, and is immune to status. With only barely passible flying coverage, aero just can't compete with diancie.

Sableye(mega) for B-
Although mega sableye is nowhere near as bulky as cress and slowbro, its competitors, it does hold a sizable niche over them. Sableye's pre mega ability, prankster, can come in handy if it needs to recover or burn something in a pinch. After mega, it bounces back status and taunt, so it has a much better matchup against thundy and amoong. Sableye has a better defensive typing, immune to kang and only weak to fairies. Sableye gets fake out and willo, which makes it difficult to tell whether it's mega or not, possibly making the opponent sacrifice a check too early.

Shoutout to c rank

Clefairy (the user)

 

[KyleCole]

Goodra from B- > C

• Insanely weak, 110/100 offences. Goodra is all kinds of bad
• Only bulky on the special side with 150 spdef, but 90 HP and 70 Def is pretty frail (20 less Def than Keldeo for reference)
• Sap Sipper and Good Coverage are its only merits, but at only 110/100 the coverage that it gets over other Dragons is pretty bad. It's only Power Whip as far as I can tell (Hydrei gets Fire, Lati@s gets Ice Beam, Lati gets Thunderbolt, Dragalge gets STAB Sludge Bomb, Kingdra gets Muddy Water)
• can run a variety of items badly including Life Orb, Choice Specs, and Assault Vest
• base 80 speed tier means that it doesn't beat any dragons or anything because its bad
• I guess it gets feint but like come on

Raikou from C+ -> B

• I was skeptical but I actually think its pretty good
• It's speed tier is fantastic. 115 lets Raikou beat fast + powerful Pokemon like Talonflame + Keldeo without taking significant damage first
• Assault vest makes Raikou pretty bulky and 1 weakness makes it a great snarl user
• One of the few sure counters to Thundurus
• It's a >108 speed attacker unaffected by paralysis and intimidate, that's pretty cool :]
• another Pokemon that is physically bulkier than Goodra

 

[Arcticblast]

Mew for B+

Transform is dumb cheese but effective cheese, and Mew can easily run non-Transform sets (support with Fire Blast is actually pretty damn effective on the right team)

 

[xzern]

hello my darlings

Blaziken to rise to B+:
Mega Blaziken to rise to B:
Escalavier to rise to B+:
Mega Sceptile to drop to B:
Salamence to drop to B-:
Mega Charizard X to rise to B:
Mega Venusaur to rise to B:
Mega Sableye to rise to B-:
Raikou to rise to B:
Mew to rise to B+:

you know the drill
for those of you that don't know, here's the drill:

Hide

 

[shaian]

Blaziken to rise to B+: no, i love ken but it's not B+ material
Mega Blaziken to rise to B: no, worse than normal ken
Escalavier to rise to B+: no, is good under-appreciated mon tho
Mega Sceptile to drop to B: yes, decent niche but hits like shit
Salamence to drop to B-: no, still good for intimidate + tailwind + dragonyness
Mega Charizard X to rise to B: yes, still scary as fuck if it sets up, b- is too low
Mega Venusaur to rise to B: yes, rise of zardy makes anything higher dubious though(s-rank that nigga)
Mega Sableye to rise to B-: no, is overrated af
Raikou to rise to B: yes, good mon
Mew to rise to B+: yes, arctic is correct about it imo

 

[Hashtag]

Blaziken to rise to B+: abstain
Mega Blaziken to rise to B: abstain
Escalavier to rise to B+: yes
Mega Sceptile to drop to B: yes
Salamence to drop to B-: yes
Mega Charizard X to rise to B: yes
Mega Venusaur to rise to B: yes
Mega Sableye to rise to B-: no
Raikou to rise to B: yes
Mew to rise to B+: yes

 

[SocialSocialSocial]

Blaziken to rise to B+: Yes
Mega Blaziken to rise to B: Abstain
Escalavier to rise to B+: No
Mega Sceptile to drop to B: Yes
Salamence to drop to B-: Abstain
Mega Charizard X to rise to B: Yes
Mega Venusaur to rise to B: Yes
Mega Sableye to rise to B-: Yes
Raikou to rise to B: No
Mew to rise to B+: Abstain

 

[Bughouse]

Blaziken to rise to B+: no
Mega Blaziken to rise to B: no
Escalavier to rise to B+: no
Mega Sceptile to drop to B: yes
Salamence to drop to B-: no
Mega Charizard X to rise to B: no
Mega Venusaur to rise to B: yes
Mega Sableye to rise to B-: no (oops lol thought this was regular sableye....)
Raikou to rise to B: yes
Mew to rise to B+: yes

 

[shrop]

Blaziken to rise to B+: YES
Mega Blaziken to rise to B: NO
Escalavier to rise to B+: NO
Mega Sceptile to drop to B: YES
Salamence to drop to B-: YES
Mega Charizard X to rise to B: YES
Mega Venusaur to rise to B: YES
Mega Sableye to rise to B-: YES
Raikou to rise to B: YES
Mew to rise to B+: YES

 

[qwerts]

Blaziken to rise to B+: yes
Mega Blaziken to rise to B: no
Escalavier to rise to B+: no
Mega Sceptile to drop to B: yes
Salamence to drop to B-: yes
Mega Charizard X to rise to B: no
Mega Venusaur to rise to B: yes
Mega Sableye to rise to B-: no
Raikou to rise to B: no
Mew to rise to B+: yes

 

[Yellow Paint]

Blaziken to rise to B+: no
Mega Blaziken to rise to B: no
Escalavier to rise to B+: yes
Mega Sceptile to drop to B: yes
Salamence to drop to B-: no
Mega Charizard X to rise to B: no
Mega Venusaur to rise to B: yes
Mega Sableye to rise to B-: yes
Raikou to rise to B: yes
Mew to rise to B+: yes

 

[finally]

altho im probably one of the biggest blaze advocates KyleCole
im gonna have to say the bird is not b+ material
it does what a regular b does by sniping kang and meta and char, but besides that rotom and cress and others give it the dix. so literally a "b" in that it fulfills a niche well