OPEN DISCUSSION - Gym Concerns and Issues

[zarator]

Sorry for double posting but I gotta highlight

Ok so, ZhengTann, here's my proposal for 4 heirlooms (I can make more if necessary, just lemme know). These ones are not mere examples and are meant to be possibly final - save for tweaks and fixes as me and others deem necessary. They're Ilvl 3 when first acquired, then become iLvl 4 if/when the player conquers or has conquered at least one Stormrage Mountain raid, iLvl 5 if/when the player conquers or has conquered at least one Isle of Lost Relics raid (including legendary dogs), and iLvl 7 if/when the player conquers or has conquered at least one Hour of Twilight raid.

[iLvl 3]

Reforged Crusader's Blade: Raises the holder's Attack rank by 3 and its accuracy by a flat 10%.
[iLvl 4]

Reforged Crusader's Blade: Raises the holder's Attack rank by 4 and its accuracy by a flat 10%. Reduces recoil damage taken by a flat 1.
[iLvl 5]

Reforged Crusader's Blade: Raises the holder's Attack rank by 5 and its accuracy by a flat 20%. Reduces recoil damage taken by a flat 1.
[iLvl 6]

Reforged Crusader's Blade: Raises the holder's Attack rank by 6 and its accuracy by a flat 20%. Reduces recoil damage taken by a flat 2. Increases critical damage bonus by a flat 3.

[iLvl 3]

Venerable Hierophant's Charge: Raises the holder's Sp. Attack rank by 3 and increases the chance of secondary effects by a flat 10% (after other multipliers).
[iLvl 4]

Venerable Hierophant's Charge: Raises the holder's Sp. Attack rank by 4 and increases the chance of secondary effects by a flat 10% (after other multipliers). Increases critical hit stage against statused targets by 1.
[iLvl 5]

Venerable Hierophant's Charge: Raises the holder's Sp. Attack rank by 5 and increases the chance of secondary effects by a flat 20% (after other multipliers). Increases critical hit stage against statused targets by 1.
[iLvl 6]

Venerable Hierophant's Charge: Raises the holder's Sp. Attack rank by 6 and increases the chance of secondary effects by a flat 20% (after other multipliers). Increases critical hit stage against statused targets by 1 and critical damage bonus by a flat 3.

[iLvl 3]

Inherited Bishop's Mallet: Raises the STAB bonus of the holder's attacks by 3 and increases the healing done by direct heals by a flat 2.
[iLvl 4]

Inherited Bishop's Mallet: Raises the STAB bonus of the holder's attacks by 4 and increases the healing done by direct heals by a flat 2. Reduces the energy cost of Aromatherapy and Heal Bell by 1.
[iLvl 5]

Inherited Bishop's Mallet: Raises the STAB bonus of the holder's attacks by 5 and increases the healing done by direct heals by a flat 3 and heal over time effects by 1. Reduces the energy cost of Aromatherapy and Heal Bell by 1.
[iLvl 6]

Inherited Bishop's Mallet: Raises the STAB bonus of the holder's attacks by 6 and increases the healing done by direct heals by a flat 3 and heal over time effects by 1. Reduces the energy cost of Aromatherapy, Dispel, Heal Bell, and Safeguard by 1.

[iLvl 3]

Ancient Templar's Ward: Raises the STAB bonus of the holder's attacks by 3 and reduces damage taken from supereffective attacks by a flat 1.
[iLvl 4]

Ancient Templar's Ward: Raises the STAB bonus of the holder's attacks by 4, its Defense and Sp. Defense ranks by 1, and reduces damage taken from supereffective attacks by a flat 1.
[iLvl 5]

Ancient Templar's Ward: Raises the STAB bonus of the holder's attacks by 5, its Defense and Sp. Defense ranks by 1, and reduces damage taken from supereffective attacks by a flat 2. Reduces the energy cost of Taunt by 1.
[iLvl 6]

Ancient Templar's Ward: Raises the STAB bonus of the holder's attacks by 6, its Defense and Sp. Defense ranks by 2, and reduces damage taken from supereffective attacks by a flat 2. Reduces the energy cost of Taunt by 1.

Opinions, suggestions, and likes are appreciated :-D

EDIT: Also, as I said to IAR and Dogfish in chat, I'd rather introduce a 5th Heirloom and make progression 3/6/9/12/15 badges rather than 6/9/12/15 or 4/8/12/16. Also, my suggested order of release would be:

1) Ancient Templar's Ward
2) Reforged Crusader's Blade
3) Venerable Hierophant's Charge
4) Inherited Bishop's Mallet

Should I release a 5th heirloom it would prolly go between (3) and (4)

 

[ZhengTann]

Okay I got you Zar. You've released Heirlooms for a tank, a physical DPSer, a special DPSer, and a cleric. How about you release a 5th, and I make the progression 4/7/8/11/15? After all, DPS Heirlooms would be more situational so might as well clump them together.

Upon defeating a Gym Leader you have not defeated before, you may immediately re-challenge another gym. In addition, you may claim the 10 CC Item of their type, e.g. Charcoal for the Fire Gym, as well as any one of the prize(s) according to the list below, depending on how many badges you have.

1 BADGE: 1 Hyper Potion
2 BADGES: 1 Max Ether
3 BADGES: 2 Heart Scales - The Pokemon gains two (2) additional KOC for each battle it participates in
4 BADGES: Raid Heirloom: Ancient Templar's Ward
5 BADGES: 1 Max Potion OR 1 Max Revive
6 BADGES: 1 Full Restore OR 1 Max Elixir
7 BADGES: Raid Heirloom: Reforged Crusader's Blade
8 BADGES: Raid Heirloom: Venerable Hierophant's Charge
9 BADGES: 1 Max Potion + 1 Max Revive

10 BADGES: 1 Full Restore + 1 Max Elixir
11 BADGES: Raid Heirloom: Ancient Assassin's Cape (suggested name because I play too much ACU)
12 BADGES: 1 Master Ball
13 BADGES: 1 Victini
14 BADGES: Elite title + 1 backdoor access to an Extended Dungeon TLR per additional Gym badge earned
15 BADGES: Raid Heirloom: Inherited Bishop's Mallet
16 BADGES: 1 of each of non-purchasable TLR items, including Master Ball
17 BADGES: Access to non-purchasable TLR Healing Items
18 BADGES: Champion title (bragging rights, an epitaph, and a permanent place in a sticky-ed ASB thread)

Gym Leaders are assumed to have their own badge.

More thought processes that still follow previous ones, unless explicitly stated otherwise:

• Had to shuffle around a bit to accommodate for Zar's request, which I respect given that I'm asking him to make a fifth Heirloom and already suggesting a name for it :P
• After some thought, decided to grant Elite players a wider backdoor access to TLRs. Slightly less broken than universal backdoors, at the cost of giving TLR heads a wee bit more headaches at tracking stuff.
• Notice that 12th Badge and beyond, prizes will get more and more overwhelming. Because by that stage, Gym winners are more likely to be restricted from advancing up the leaderboard due to Gyms that are not open (and may not open until the end of their ASB career) rather than, say, lack of skill or team composition.

Open to feedback, but this is pretty much, in Zar's exact words, meant to be possibly final - so unless people manage to overwhelm me with the vehemence of their objections (usually the 18th spot), I'll leave it to Gym Comm for implementation.

 

[Maxim]

The 18 Badges reward still sounds rather silly. I rather like Gerard's proposal to get any Pokemon you wish, possibly even with a max movepool. I think a free max legendary would be a good reward for successfully defeating the best players in ASB.

Just my 1/2 cent.

 

[Frosty]

literally anything is better than bragging rights. Having all badges is already bragging rights and having the name on a stickied thread is all kinds of silly simply because by the time that happens said person will already have made their impression on the community. Nothing on the last prize add anything at all.´

I dunno what would be a suitable replacement. If the "any pokemon" is deemed too good, then no problem. Just make it one of the minor legendaries (the ones on Deck's allowed list, those are pretty harmless) and non-legendaries.

But really anything is better than that.

 

[zarator]

Ok, there you go (sorry for not taking your suggestion Zt, it didn't fit with the stats I was imagining^^):

[iLvl 3]

Old Book of Tricks: Raises the STAB bonus of the holder's attacks by 3 and reduces the energy cost of Gravity and Trick Room by 2.
[iLvl 4]

Old Book of Tricks: Raises the STAB bonus of the holder's attacks by 4 and reduces the energy cost of Gravity and Trick Room by 2. Extends the duration of Light Screen and Reflect by 3 actions.
[iLvl 5]

Old Book of Tricks: Raises the STAB bonus of the holder's attacks by 5 and reduces the energy cost of Gravity, Skill Swap, and Trick Room by 2. Extends the duration of Light Screen, Reflect, and Tailwind by 3 actions.
[iLvl 6]

Old Book of Tricks: Raises the STAB bonus of the holder's attacks by 6 and reduces the energy cost of Gravity, Tailwind, and Trick Room by 2. Extends the duration of Light Screen, Reflect, and Tailwind by 3 actions. Raises the threat generated by any attack boosted by the holder's Helping Hand by an amount equal to 100% of the damage it causes.

 

[Its_A_Random]

ZhengTann wrt Raid rewards why not allow players to pick a heirloom of their choice for each time they get enough badges to get one? Of course, they can only choose each options once.

Also zarator with the Heirloom upgrades, I would suggest that you should consider Central Processing to be the same level as Stormrage raids simply because just winning the raid is arguably less challenging than some of the Stormrage raids. Plus it would give players incentives to take on some of the other IoLR raids as opposed to just Central Processing and I know you are looking for incentives to get players to play those raids as opposed to just Central Processing and anything from Stormrage.

Also wrt 18th badge, I am comfortable with allowing players to gain a Pokémon of their choice as long as it is not Arceus (Who would not pick one of the strongest, most versatile Pokémon in the game) and maybe Rayquaza (Mega Evolution not bound to a Mega Stone that gives it unrivaled offensive power and a really strong defensive ability so who would not pick that), even though it takes years to get all the badges simply because they are seriously "too good" and there is no real reason to not pick those unless you really wanted something else.

 

[zarator]

I could allow CP only if players defeat Porygon2/PorygonZ, maybe

 

[Gerard]

Well, by that point I wonder what's the harm. You can't use Arceus or MegaRayquaza to beat the league since you've done so already, so they are only good for bragging and RPs. They could be used in tournaments but they can just as easily be banned (like Mewtwo was on SICK). Regular matches would be interesting to see. I believe if you were to battle the person with the Arceus / M-Rayquaza you can either rule them out or let them (I want to see anyone trying and beating those monsters). Arceus doesn't have it's plates either (well, except Faerie. What happened with Pink Bow?).

If you can only use them for TLR and Raids I don't think it's that bad, when MegaRay doesn't fare well against most of them AND the fact that in ASB it's amazing Flying STAB has the awful downside of lowering it's defenses (how often do you see Close combat being used by fighting types?) and doesn't get Roost. Arceus I can see being banned (maybe we could make him the ultimate prize for when we have 6 champions or so and whoever wins gets it) but I hope Ray can stay. I think the idea of getting anything you want is what is really appealing of getting there. I know I'm getting Mew if I ever get it. And I think most people would not just get the stronger mon they can think of and instead will try for that, still strong, pokemon that they will never get otherwise. IAR might get Groudon, or Frosty, Emma might choose Xerneas, etc... (Also, we should grant them whatever signature item they have to make it a complete prize).

Also, I think maxed movepools is a good idea since a) it's gonna be a pain to find battles for this pokemon and b) it allows people to choose not only legends, but stuff like Smeargle. Which would be both hilarious and extremely practical.

 

[Elevator Music]

Ok, done some chatting and here's some modifications I'd like to make to Zt's most recent proposal:

• Heirlooms: I think it might be nice to let people choose the order they get heirlooms in (what IAR said a few posts up). I also think a relatively small amount of UC should be given alongside these prizes (maybe like 10/20/30/40/50, or w/e), so that way peoplee that dont play raids arent getting nothing out of it.
• Badge 17: This prize is a bit unclear atm. Dogfish suggested that it gives access to a "Champion's shop" where you can but previously unpurchaseable items.
• Badge 18: We need more discussion here. IDK exactly what is fair game. I'm also on the fence about allowing people to pick a legendary in general, but I can't think of a more appropriate prize either.

 

[Stratos]

18 badges should give access to an endgame tlr with arceus


18:39 elevator_music: could even have the tlr have other legends too
18:39 Stratos: i was thinking that
18:39 Stratos: like
18:39 Stratos: or a TLR where
18:39 Stratos: you just pick
18:39 Stratos: the final legend
18:39 Stratos: or even just like
18:39 Stratos: a single battle
18:39 Stratos: thats just a legend match
18:39 Stratos: but they have tons of allies
18:39 Stratos: but it gives you access to this pantheon of legend matches
18:40 Stratos: but theyd be difficult as hell

 

[Stratos]

because i had a really cool idea pop into my head and i had nothing better to do i wrote up a rough draft of what 1 of these encounters might be like

potential pantheon battle: (im not a writer pls forgive prose)

Finding yourself once again in the main hall, you feel yourself strangely drawn to a single door. Unlike the others, it bears neither marking nor decoration. It is simply a flat, yet deep black, so dark that it almost hurts your eyes to look at it. There is no visible handle, so you push. The door opens slowly yet soundlessly, but you can hardly tell it has, because inside the room is nothing but more of the pitch black. As you step inside to investigate, you hear the door slam behind you. Damn it, of course it does.

You feel your way around the wall, but are unable to find any sort of torch, light switch, or anything which you can use as a light source. You hear what sounds like a pair of claws scratching on marble and freeze. You release the Pokemon in the Pokeball closest to your belt, and the flash of red light reveals some extremely sharp-looking teeth and a pair of hexagonal eyes. As you brace yourself against the wall you hear a claw scraping through wood directly overhead. There's more than one! You run to what you hope is the center of the room—at any rate, it's away from the wall—and quickly release the other two PokeBalls on your belt. You don't know what's out there, but it's time to fight. But with no visual cues to speak of, your Pokemon are fighting with their ears alone...

RULES:
-3 Pokemon allowed
-Perfect Darkness: *.75 accuracy modifier on all of your moves.
-Hunting by Ear: Your Pokemon are using sound to locate their foes. Any loud noises will keep them from landing a hit on the opponent for the entire following round.
-Obscuring shadows: Fighting purely on reaction, you cannot see what the opposing Pokemon are doing. All you can tell are their movements. The Sableye order first every round; however, their orders are only presented to the trainer as the Pokemon they are targeting. Non-Attacking moves will be listed as "X."

Example Sableye order:

(Sylveon) ~ X ~ (Sylveon)
IF Gardevoir uses Moonblast, then (Gardevoir)
IF Sylveon uses a P/E move, then (Sylveon)

Once the Sableye are defeated:

You pause, but can no longer hear the click of nails on the ground. Perhaps the battle is over? But just as your breathing returns to normal, you hear a demonic laugh echo through the chamber. "Show yourself, you coward!" you demand. "I prefer the darkness" is the only retort you hear. Clearly this battle will not be fought on your terms.

RULES:
-Perfect Darkess
-Hunting by Ear
-Non-telegraphed: There is no way to tell what Darkrai is doing, as in the pitch darkness he can simply float around unnoticed. He orders second each round.

After first round:

Suddenly you hear a sickening snap and a cry of pain from one of your Pokemon. As if things weren't difficult enough, it seems that the laugh is not alone.

(One of trainer's Pokemon, chosen randomly, loses 15 HP).

Each subsequent round in perfect darkness:

Again you hear a Pokemon cry out in pain. This nuisance must be here to stay. Do you force him to reveal himself?

If Darkrai caught:

"Darkness was supposed to be my ally," the mysterious Pokemon mutters as it disappears into the Pokeball. You retrieve the ball lying on the ground. "Glad that's over with," you say to yourself. But how do you get out of here?

Finding yourself once again in the main hall, you wonder which door to tackle next. You only remember having three Pokemon with you, but for some reason there are four balls on your belt. As you reach down to grab the last one, you find yourself grinning mischeviously...

If a Pokemon uses a fire-type move other than HP Fire on the environment during the round

You remember the sound you heard just before the battle began and realize—the walls must be made of wood! X attacks the wall in front of him with Y and to your delight, a spark catches, exactly as planned. Only a small spark caught, just enough to see outlines by, but this should be enough to finish the battle.

At round's end:

RULES:
-Perfect Darkness LIFTED
-Hunting by Ear LIFTED
-Twilight: *.9 accuracy modifier on all of your moves.

At end of following round:

The fire has spread and you finally have a clear view of the room: it is almost beautiful, or at the very least breathtaking. The room is a dome of pure marble. It extends above you for at least thirty meters, but by craning your neck you can see it is open at the top. Perhaps you could have seen starlight earlier, had you bothered to check, but now it is certainly too bright to know. The dome is supported by ornately carved wooden beams which reach from the floor to a wooden circle around the top of the dome; they are patterned with a wooden gargoyle of some type, but it hurts your eyes to look. You cannot see any groove or break where the door might have been. The only way out is forward.

RULES:
-Twilight LIFTED
-Obscuring Shadows LIFTED (Sableye still order first this round)
-Non-telegraphed LIFTED (Darkrai still orders second this round)
-Inferno: All Pokemon (including Fire-types and enemies) take 2 damage at the end of each action from the impossibly sweltering heat. Fire-type moves receive a 3 BAP boost but cost 2 extra energy, having been supercharged by the atmosphere.
-Weak structure: Despite their decoration, those pillars appear structural. Who knows what could happen?
-If on the darkrai fight, mysterious opponent revealed now, joins battle.

If Sableye are defeated during Inferno:

A monster slowly floats down from the hole in the ceiling. "I thought you were brave to challenge me, but it turns out you were just a damn fool. I don't need to cut your life short if you'll do it for me." As another Pokemon leaps down from the rafters with a resounding *thud*, he beckons you. This must be the final battle!

RULES:
-Inferno
-Weak Structure
(The Pokemon which dropped down with Darkrai has a 1/3 chance of being either Bisharp, Pangoro, or Malamar)

If six rounds have passed since Inferno began (Capture rounds do not count, though free rounds from full energy do):

You order your Pokemon to attack, but rather than retaliate, the monster simply begins to laugh. Too late, you realize why, as the support columns fail and the dome collapses overhead. Finding yourself once again in the main hall, you feel yourself strangely drawn to a single door.

If Darkrai caught:

The beast laughs deeply. "Haha, trainer, I appreciate a man who's not afraid to play with fire. Now let's go onward. The world is our oyster!"

the general idea was that it was hard as fuck and also gave the player the meaningful choice of whether or not to light the arena on fire, drastically changing the encounter, and if so, when to do it. ideally the full things would actually have more than one possible meaningful choice like that but like heck I'm spending more time than I already did on a proof of concept

 

[Texas Cloverleaf]

Retiring as of the conclusion of me vs zara

just fyi

 

[Elevator Music]

So, is anyone not OK with Pwnemon's idea? I think its a good idea, and if nobody raises any objections within the next day or so then we can go with that. EIther way, here is the newest version of the proposed list:

Upon defeating a Gym Leader you have not defeated before, you may immediately re-challenge another gym. In addition, you may claim the 10 CC Item of their type, e.g. Charcoal for the Fire Gym, as well as any one of the prize(s) according to the list below, depending on how many badges you have.

1 BADGE: 1 Hyper Potion
2 BADGES: 1 Max Ether
3 BADGES: 2 Heart Scale [Heart Scale: The Pokemon gains two (2) additional KOC for each battle it participates in]
4 BADGES: Raid Heirloom + 10 UC
5 BADGES: 1 Max Potion OR 1 Max Revive
6 BADGES: 1 Full Restore OR 1 Max Elixir
7 BADGES: Raid Heirloom + 20 UC
8 BADGES: Raid Heirloom + 30 UC
9 BADGES: 1 Max Potion + 1 Max Revive

10 BADGES: 1 Full Restore + 1 Max Elixir
11 BADGES: Raid Heirloom + 40 UC
12 BADGES: 1 Master Ball
13 BADGES: 1 Victini
14 BADGES: Elite title + 1 backdoor access to an Extended Dungeon TLR per additional Gym badge earned
15 BADGES: Raid Heirloom + 50 UC
16 BADGES: 1 of each of non-purchasable TLR items, including Master Ball
17 BADGES: Access to non-purchasable TLR Healing Items
18 BADGES: Access to Champion's Hall [working name] TLRs

Gym Leaders are assumed to have their own badge.

Either way, can we hammer down how retroactivity of prizes should work? People have made some decent points for and against it, but the topic changed. Here is what I propose:

1) For Heirloom items and the Heart Scales, players with enough badges are automatically granted these. However, the UC that comes along with the Heirlooms is not included.
2) For TLR items, players will have to re-fight a gym they already have the badge for and win to claim these prizes. Only one badge prize may be claimed at a time this way. You can't claim the same prize in this manner twice, and you can't re-win a badge more than once.

Y/N? Does this need clarification in any way? I'm also on the fence about auto-giving out Heart Scales -- I wouldn't be opposed to having people have to re-fight gyms for these.

Also something I just thought of: perhaps instead of getting UC alongside the Heirloom items, additional Heart Scales were given instead? Being able to only have 2 sucks. Unless we decide to make them also purchasable or something [strongly disagree with this idea].

 

[Dogfish44]

- Heart Scales over UC is perfectly fine - UC flat bonuses were a wee bit silly.
- REALLY dislike refighting gyms, given that the queues are already bad enough, and I see no justification for it.

In my opinion, we should grant all non-consumable items (Heirlooms, Scales). Then with Consumables, we should grant the person any which they would not have already unlocked under the old system. This should be the fairest and fastest solution?

 

[tavok]

Giving more than 2 Heart Scales is pretty much asking people to do more 13v13 flashes. Well, maybe not that big, but you get the point.
Most battles that use Training Items are around 3v3 or smaller.

Sadly, I can't really think of something to replace the UC. UC is pretty much there to give people who don't raid something for winning the badge. I really like the prizes as they are.

Regarding retroactivity, I agree with what DF says. Making gym queues bigger would be prejudicial for everyone. Sure, some people would get double prices from some badges this way, but I don't see a good way to solve it without causing more problem that it's worth.

 

[ZhengTann]

I'm sorry if I didn't make it clear enough in my recent iterations of the proposal, but you should be able to retro-claim. Meaning, you can claim the 4th-badge prize if you win your 7th badge if you don't like the 7th. Winning that 7th badge means you now have 7 prizes to choose from instead of 6 previously. Side note: that's one of the (less justified) reasons why I deliberately had an order when I arrange the Heirlooms, instead of allowing people to choose and get what they want.

What this means for non-Raiders is that they can completely forsake the Heirloom in favour of, say, a Full Restore or a Max Revive. Heck, for those that don't even do TLRs, they can just claim that pair of Heart Scales every time they win a badge. So unless Gym Comm is in favour of abolishing this option, I think there would not be any circumstances where you'd be getting a "useless prize" when you win a Gym match.

 

[deadfox081]

I'm equally against refighting gyms, in favour of other DF's idea of handing out the retroactive prizes minus any associated UC. I'm also a big fan of the proposal as it is now but think there could most definitely be room for more Heart Scales in it.

Have to show a pretty strong no against Zt's proposal too. You shouldn't just be able to chose any prize. If we decide the prizes are all pretty good shit (which we will or else they won't be prizes) then tough titties if you don't like the particularly one you just won.

No Frosty I'm not saying you should be happy with VOPs. Like I said good prizes.

 

[Gale Wing Srock]

So, is anyone not OK with Pwnemon's idea? I think its a good idea, and if nobody raises any objections within the next day or so then we can go with that.

I like Pwnemon aka Stratos's Idea too.

EIther way, here is the newest version of the proposed list:

Upon defeating a Gym Leader you have not defeated before, you may immediately re-challenge another gym. In addition, you may claim the 10 CC Item of their type, e.g. Charcoal for the Fire Gym, as well as any one of the prize(s) according to the list below, depending on how many badges you have.

1 BADGE: 1 Hyper Potion + 10 UC
2 BADGES: 1 Heart Scale
3 BADGES: Raid Heirloom + 20 UC
4 BADGES: 1 Max Ether + 1 Hyper Potion
5 BADGES: 1 Max Potion OR 1 Max Revive
6 BADGES: Raid Heirloom + 30 UC + 1 Heart Scale
7 BADGES: 1 Full Restore OR 1 Max Elixir + 1 Hyper Potion
8 BADGES: 1 Max Potion + 1 Max Revive
9 BADGES: 1 Full Restore + 1 Max Elixir

10 BADGES: Raid Heirloom + 40 UC
11 BADGES: 1 Hyper Potion + 1 Max Potion + 1 Max Ether + 1 Heart Scale
12 BADGES: 1 Master Ball
13 BADGES: 1 Victini
14 BADGES: Elite title + 1 backdoor access to an Extended Dungeon TLR per additional Gym badge earned
15 BADGES: Raid Heirloom + 50 UC
16 BADGES: 1 of each of non-purchasable TLR items, including Master Ball
17 BADGES: Access to non-purchasable TLR Healing Items
18 BADGES: Access to Champion's Hall [working name] TLRs

*Changed the prizes a bit and marked them in Blue.

Gym Leaders are assumed to have their own badge.

Either way, can we hammer down how retroactivity of prizes should work? People have made some decent points for and against it, but the topic changed. Here is what I propose:

1) For Heirloom items and the Heart Scales, players with enough badges are automatically granted these. However, the UC that comes along with the Heirlooms is not included.

No doubt about this.

2) For TLR items, players will have to re-fight a gym they already have the badge for and win to claim these prizes. Only one badge prize may be claimed at a time this way. You can't claim the same prize in this manner twice, and you can't re-win a badge more than once.

I am not sure everyone keeps track of the badges they got, in the order they got them. And even if they do, then there is a problem like: If you want the third badge's TLR prize and the Gym is Closed fsr, Then you can't get the prize.

I am proposing this to solve the issue: When a player has crossed a particular prize level, but still wants that prize (Retroactively, or wanting to do it again), Then the player can challenge any Gym and get that reward (Along with the badge but has to forgo the new prizes) after getting the approval from the Gym Committee.

So for example: After Elevator Music and Frosty get all 18 Gym badges and want another Master Ball. They can decide to challenge a Gym that they have already beaten for that prize, and get the approval from the Gym Committee for the challenge.

Another example: After IAR gets his 14th Badge, and he wants another Master Ball. So he decides to forgo the last Raid Heirloom + 50 UC prize for a 12th Badge's Prize which is a Master Ball.

This also allows the champion the incentive to rechallenge Gyms later on, or even the players who are waiting to train for a new Gym.

Y/N? Does this need clarification in any way? I'm also on the fence about auto-giving out Heart Scales -- I wouldn't be opposed to having people have to re-fight gyms for these.

Also something I just thought of: perhaps instead of getting UC alongside the Heirloom items, additional Heart Scales were given instead? Being able to only have 2 sucks. Unless we decide to make them also purchasable or something [strongly disagree with this idea].

What do you think of the suggestions, Emma?

 

[zarator]

ZhengTann for balance reasons, I'm reducing the ilvl of Heirlooms at HoT tier from 7 to 6. I will edit posts myself.

 

[Elevator Music]

Quickly responding to Gale's post since I was lazy and didn't do it over the weekend:

I'm indifferent (though I guess fine) with the changes to the prize list, although the 5th heirloom needs to be included somewhere. But I do like that it has a third Heart Scale! As for the retroactivity piece, it's actually pretty much what I had (I didn't explicitly say this, but I didn't mean people would have to challenge whatever gym they got the Xth prize for to re-win the new Xth prize -- it could be any gym they'd already beaten). But, it looks like a majority of people would rather not do the whole rechallenging gyms thing so it's kinda moot >_<

--

So yea as kinda implied above, committee is probably going to move forward with the prize list I posted a few posts up and retroactively giving out all non-UC prizes that people have the badges for since those seem to have the most support. But we'll give people a couple days to post if they feel that's not the best choice.


Also, a reminder that Flying qualifiers start this weekend (Saturday, April 4th (04/04 so you can't get confused by the date!!)). I'm going to ask that people PM me, Dogfish44, and Stratos if they want to participate in the Flying qualifiers.
Tagging some people that have already expressed interest:
Avnomke Leethoof P2X7 Rainman Legends

 

[deadfox081]

Totally uncalled for and unhelpful post, but I'm throwing my hat in for Dragon leadership now that Texas has officially resigned. srsly I'll win some quals eventually

 

[zarator]

Gale Wing Srock: I think your edited list has only 4 Heirlooms instead of 5...

EDIT: Also I really believe it should NOT be a Heirloom of player's choice, but rather you should follow the list I gave you before (otherwise I bet 90% of the players will go for healer one straight away)

 

[Frosty]

I would like if people didn't change the proposed list every other day. Makes harder to analyse and then reanalyse and then....well you got the drift.

Also, somewhat useless post: for no reason whatsoever I am willing to ref as many of the flying gym qualifiers as necessary to get things going.

 

[Gale Wing Srock]

zarator & Elevator Music,

Oops! Removed the 3rd Heart Scale and added the fifth Heirloom along with the names. I feel Old Book of Tricks can come before Bishop's Mallet. Please let me know if I missed something out.

1 BADGE: 1 Hyper Potion + 10 UC
2 BADGES: 1 Heart Scale
3 BADGES: Raid Heirloom: Ancient Templar's Ward + 20 UC
4 BADGES: 1 Max Ether + 1 Hyper Potion
5 BADGES: 1 Max Potion OR 1 Max Revive
6 BADGES: Raid Heirloom: Reforged Crusader's Blade + 30 UC + 1 Heart Scale
7 BADGES: 1 Full Restore OR 1 Max Elixir + 1 Hyper Potion
8 BADGES: 1 Max Potion + 1 Max Revive
9 BADGES: Raid Heirloom: Venerable Hierophant's Charge + 1 Full Restore + 1 Max Elixir

10 BADGES: 1 Hyper Potion + 1 Max Potion + 1 Max Ether
11 BADGES: 1 Master Ball
12 BADGES: Raid Heirloom: Old Book of Tricks + 40 UC + 1 Fresh NFE pokemon of Rank C and below
13 BADGES: 1 Victini
14 BADGES: Elite title + 1 backdoor access to an Extended Dungeon TLR per additional Gym badge earned
15 BADGES: Raid Heirloom: Inherited Bishop's Mallet + 50 UC + 1 Fresh FE pokemon of Rank B and below
16 BADGES: 1 of each of non-purchasable TLR items, including Master Ball
17 BADGES: Access to non-purchasable TLR Healing Items
18 BADGES: Access to Champion's Hall [working name] TLRs + 1 Maxed any pokemon (w/ Exceptions)

 

[Texas Cloverleaf]

"1 fresh NFE Pokemon of rank B or below"

This is a 2 CC value. Why is it included?