Resource ORAS NU Viability Rankings

[Kiyo]

i remember when april fool's jokes were funny

 

[Raseri]

i remember when april fool's jokes were funny

i don't

 

[Ares]

stop shitting up this thread, i get that its april fools......................and?

 

[Raseri]

primplup is s rank now xd

 

[soulgazer]

XD

 

[The Goomy]

Str8 primpin

 

[Dentricos]

Poor mods will have to delete so many irrelevant posts as soon as April Fools is over :{

Probopass C- ---> B / B+

Can I suggest probopass to move up from C+ in all seriousness though? It has quite a few things that it can do that rhydon can't, such as trap mawile, klink, seed, ect... and volt switch is actually pretty useful against most teams right now...

Can we plz move typhlosion to A+ already?

 

[Raseri]

i trolled u guys

primplup is back where it belongs

 

[Silver Aurum]

Simipour C+ --> B: Simipour is slightly underrated in my opinion. Although generally Samurott is a better alternative Simipour has access to a faster taunt + Nasty Plot which gives it an edge over samurott. It is slightly lacking in bulk and immediate power but has access to Grass Knot + Ice Beam + Hydro Pump which is the same coverage Special Samurott runs. Im not saying that Simipour is the greatest mon in the world but I think it deserves B rank
- I swear im not a nub

 

[Mistress Remilia]

Magmortar from A- to A: I feel like any kind of team in general is really getting less prepared for this insane threat, in terms of speed or weaknesses. As i'm sure you all know, Magmortar has incredible wallbreaking power & unlike Rupt & Typh it can break through some annoyers such as Mantine with a T-Bolt. 83 Speed isn't too bad either, and things that are faster & threatens Magmortar are less common than before. Really strong Pokemon.

Ninjask from C+ to D: Scyther exists, making Ninjask completely outclassed in anything but the awful BP set ( Even Scyther can Eviolite + BP&SD with some more effectiveness, it even has access to Agility & Recovery to setup on some pokemons )

Dusknoir from C- to C/C+: Dusknoir remains quite obscure in NU, but it has a solid niche of Spinblocking both Claydol & Cryogonal. It can also bait most defoggers with a strong CB ThunderPunch, as most defoggers are weak to Electric. Trick annihilates most of his switches in, and its power is honestly decent. Very underrated pokemon due to past Generations having Dusknoir as an awful pokemon, but still, i advice you to give him a chance, you won't be dissapointed.

 

[Quite Quiet]

Ninjask from C+ to D: Scyther exists, making Ninjask completely outclassed in anything but the awful BP set ( Even Scyther can Eviolite + BP&SD with some more effectiveness, it even has access to Agility & Recovery to setup on some pokemons )

I disagree with this. Banded Ninjask have a significantly higher damage output over Scarf Scyther with U-Turn and outspeed pretty much everything relevant Scyther does too. And to that there's final gambit that can actually take quite a bit of stuff out since Ninjask's HP isn't the worst ever. IIRC it wasn't even ranked in C+ because of the BP set anyway, because banded is leagues better (BP is probably a D worthy set, I'll give you that). Infiltrator is pretty nice too, because it can kill stuff through subs and screens. Fast Infiltrator Final Gambit it probably the best reason for Ninjask though, since it can stop a whole bunch of set up sweepers that way (and also stop defog/rapid spin I guess?).

calcs

252 Atk Scyther U-turn vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Audino: 115-136 (28 - 33.1%) -- 90.5% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Ninjask U-turn vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Audino: 166-196 (40.4 - 47.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (even jolly have higher damage output)

 

[Oshony PokeGod]

Aurorus B+ --> A-

Snow warning granted aurorus the ability to both counter rain (without beartic) with a scarf, AND anti lead. With sash lead, sashes and sturdy mons because of that extra chip damage. Also, max speed outruns 0 speed uxie and can encore it into rocks while forcing the switchin to take damage.

theres more but im kinda lazy

 

[bird crew]

Piloswine B- -> B+

First post, how exactly is our yung lord Piloswine holding up in B-?

He reliably sets up rocks with tremendous bulk, holds fantastic offensive typing in ground/ice with hard hitting stabs AND priority (this is SEVERELY understated), and the ability in thick fat that allows it to sponge hits that would normally destroy similar mons. Here are some calcs:

252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Thick Fat Piloswine: 330-390 (81.6 - 96.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Sheer Force Mega Camerupt Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Thick Fat Piloswine: 282-332 (69.8 - 82.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Sheer Force Mawile Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Piloswine: 224-266 (55.4 - 65.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Piloswine can OHKO ALL of these with Earthquake.

252+ SpA Xatu Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Piloswine: 146-174 (36.1 - 43%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Technician Scyther Aerial Ace vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Piloswine: 157-186 (38.8 - 46%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Rock Climb vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Piloswine: 165-196 (40.8 - 48.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Piloswine beats these mons with a combination of EQ/icicle spear/ice shard

252+ Atk Rhydon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Piloswine: 144-171 (35.6 - 42.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Piloswine Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Rhydon: 170-204 (48.2 - 57.9%) -- 94.5% chance to 2HKO
Rhydon ezpz

252+ Atk Mold Breaker Sawk Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Piloswine: 338-398 (83.6 - 98.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Hariyama Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Piloswine: 326-386 (80.6 - 95.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Sponge a fighting-STAB move, usually answer back

0 SpA Claydol Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Piloswine: 73-87 (18 - 21.5%) -- possible 5HKO
252+ Atk Piloswine Icicle Spear (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Claydol: 162-198 (50 - 61.1%) -- approx. 87.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Sandslash Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Piloswine: 87-103 (21.5 - 25.4%) -- 0.4% chance to 4HKO
252+ Atk Piloswine Icicle Spear (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Sandslash: 150-186 (42.3 - 52.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Piloswine Ice Shard vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Sandslash: 84-98 (23.7 - 27.6%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Cryogonal Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Thick Fat Piloswine: 37-45 (9.1 - 11.1%) -- possible 9HKO
252+ Atk Piloswine Icicle Spear (3 hits) vs. 240 HP / 172 Def Cryogonal: 96-114 (28.1 - 33.4%) -- approx. 91.1% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
Beats EVERY spinner in the tier, hands down

+1 252+ Atk Klinklang Gear Grind (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Piloswine: 364-432 (90 - 106.9%) -- approx. 31.3% chance to OHKO
Even one of his supposedly weakest matchups has only a 30% chance to OHKO from full, meaning Pilo can easily OHKO ~70% of the time in return.

Here are some more of the mons he reliably beats 1v1 (arguably can beat many more depending on hazards and prior damage thanks to ice shard):

Hazard mons:
Archeops
Rhydon
Claydol
Regirock
Torterra
Garbodor
Cradily

Offensive mons:
Camerupt
Archeops
Sneasel
Tauros
Xatu
Mawile
Scyther
Liepard
Swellow
Pawniard
Aurorus
Jumpluff (lol)

Nothing about this mon is overly niche, nor is his role better filled by any other rock setter (this includes rhydon). The fact that he sits below on the viability ladder to Torterra, Regirock, Claydol, and even shit like Jumpluff and Swanna really doesn't make sense considering how Piloswine can almost always take a few hits and dish out damage in every game, while most definitely getting up rocks. Again, his access to ice STAB priority is one of his most defining traits, often allowing him to come back in late game and put a stop to swellow, lilligant, vivilion, xatu, etc.

I will post replays if I have to, but that's all for now.

 

[Punchshroom]

bird crew I get that Piloswine's potent dual STABs and tankiness warrants greater merit, but Pilowsine's flaws, while not apparent at first glance, do contribute greatly to its current ranking.

Piloswine does indeed have a decent matchup against various Pokemon in a 1v1 matchup, but when it comes to defensive utility it starts to come short, which is pretty notable considering its bad speed and lack of recovery pretty much force it into the role of bulky SR user; you don't want your tanky SR user to 'just be a tanky SR user' and at the same time not find many safe opportunities to switch in safely. You have to remember that people favor bulky SR mons that still provide good defensive utility due to the more offensive metagame (more so than in the BW meta), allowing them to switch into battle more frequently or easily, and either dish out hits and/or support the team in other ways.

Resistances play a crucial part in the usefulness of a bulky SR mon. Rhydon is a great example, possessing Piloswine's tanking ability but also has very important resists to the popular Normal, Fire, and Flying attacks that plague the metagame. Other examples include Carracosta and Regirock which possess the same resistances, Seismitoad with its immensely useful Water immunity, Uxie with its Fighting and Psychic resistance + Ground immunity, and even Mawile with its Bug, Ice, and Dark resistances. Piloswine has an Electric immunity and a pseudo Ice resistance, and sadly not enough opponents carry these moves to make Piloswine's defensive prowess worthwhile, not to mention there is severe competition with the Electric immunity as is with Seismitoad, Rhydon, and Mega Camerupt, which happen to carry other useful resistances respectively.

It's not just the lack of useful resists Piloswine has that contributes to its issues. Piloswine not only doesn't resist the many ubiquitous attacking types of the meta (Fire, Flying, Normal, Psychic, etc.), but it even manages to carry the weaknesses the other SR Pokemon have (Water, Fighting, and to a lesser extent Grass and Steel), meaning you still have to cover for Piloswine's weaknesses like the other SR Pokemon, but you don't even get the defensive benefits the other SR mons carry. A similar case occurs with Torterra, which doesn't have the crucial resists but carries the same weaknesses, but at the very least Torterra has much greater offensive potential in the form of Choice Band, Swords Dance, and Rock Polish, and has better longevity with Leftovers and Synthesis. Piloswine isn't bad, but it isn't particularly great either :[.

 

[HJAD]

I do want to add to this argue ment a little. If seismitoad and m-camel leave through usage or suspect test, I will consider piloswine as one of the main stealth rock setters again, because about half of its main competition has gone away. + ice stab and no rocks weakness is sweet ngl.

Tl:dr pilo is good, it will be even better if seis and m camel leave.

 

[bird crew]

bird crew I get that Piloswine's potent dual STABs and tankiness warrants greater merit, but Pilowsine's flaws, while not apparent at first glance, do contribute greatly to its current ranking.

Piloswine does indeed have a decent matchup against various Pokemon in a 1v1 matchup, but when it comes to defensive utility it starts to come short, which is pretty notable considering its bad speed and lack of recovery pretty much force it into the role of bulky SR user; you don't want your tanky SR user to 'just be a tanky SR user' and at the same time not find many safe opportunities to switch in safely. You have to remember that people favor bulky SR mons that still provide good defensive utility due to the more offensive metagame (more so than in the BW meta), allowing them to switch into battle more frequently or easily, and either dish out hits and/or support the team in other ways.

Resistances play a crucial part in the usefulness of a bulky SR mon. Rhydon is a great example, possessing Piloswine's tanking ability but also has very important resists to the popular Normal, Fire, and Flying attacks that plague the metagame. Other examples include Carracosta and Regirock which possess the same resistances, Seismitoad with its immensely useful Water immunity, Uxie with its Fighting and Psychic resistance + Ground immunity, and even Mawile with its Bug, Ice, and Dark resistances. Piloswine has an Electric immunity and a pseudo Ice resistance, and sadly not enough opponents carry these moves to make Piloswine's defensive prowess worthwhile, not to mention there is severe competition with the Electric immunity as is with Seismitoad, Rhydon, and Mega Camerupt, which happen to carry other useful resistances respectively.

It's not just the lack of useful resists Piloswine has that contributes to its issues. Piloswine not only doesn't resist the many ubiquitous attacking types of the meta (Fire, Flying, Normal, Psychic, etc.), but it even manages to carry the weaknesses the other SR Pokemon have (Water, Fighting, and to a lesser extent Grass and Steel), meaning you still have to cover for Piloswine's weaknesses like the other SR Pokemon, but you don't even get the defensive benefits the other SR mons carry. A similar case occurs with Torterra, which doesn't have the crucial resists but carries the same weaknesses, but at the very least Torterra has much greater offensive potential in the form of Choice Band, Swords Dance, and Rock Polish, and has better longevity with Leftovers and Synthesis. Piloswine isn't bad, but it isn't particularly great either :[.

I would completely agree with your analysis that Piloswine does not carry the typing to switch into a number of resisted hits throughout the match, and often finds himself taking a lot of neutral or super effective hits that add up. However, Piloswine does not have Rhydon's 4x weaknesses nor his lack of priority, meaning Piloswine can at times choose to stay in on something he would switch out on, like seismitoad or carracosta or klingklang, and take a super effective hit and return with an EQ + ice shard for a crisp kill. Just his ability to situationally overcome his checks later in the match is a huge reason Piloswine should be considered more viable as it doesn't end up as dead weight. While it is true Torterra does have more set options and reliable recovery, he also has a set of weaknesses that are completely different from Piloswine, and I would think make him much harder to use in the current meta. Having a 4x ice weakness, along with 2x to fire, flying (and lesser extend bug) means you have an additional weakness to fire spam, mons like vivillion/swellow, mons like jynx/mesprit/aurorus, and having no priority forces you to always switch out on them.

 

[Teddeh]

I think mainly a reason why piloswine is notably not one of the go to stealth rock users is that the majority of the time, the most common defog users and other stealth rock users are bulky water types that can take advantage of its weakness to scald, fish for a burn and defog consistently. Mons like prinplup, mantine, pelipper, seismitoad all feast on it. The exception would be archeops but is rarely seen as a defog user for most teams. With this, it makes pilo's already hard job harder to the point where it would allow a free defog every time it would come in and lose offensive pressure. I like pilo, i just think B is high enough.

 

[HJAD]

I think mainly a reason why piloswine is notably not one of the go to stealth rock users is that the majority of the time, the most common defog users and other stealth rock users are bulky water types that can take advantage of its weakness to scald, fish for a burn and defog consistently. Mons like prinplup, mantine, pelipper, seismitoad all feast on it. The exception would be archeops but is rarely seen as a defog user for most teams. With this, it makes pilo's already hard job harder to the point where it would allow a free defog every time it would come in and lose offensive pressure. I like pilo, i just think B is high enough.

it can also do a nasty lure set with freeze dry so it can beat all of those mons 1v1 (With the exception of supergod prinplup) That does require investment however, and a reduction in speed which could be catastrophic, but its undoubtedly a way past its percieved "counters" and is really cool.

Personally to me, i dont think pilo should rise yet, but if seis and m-camel leave, it will certainly be a worthy contender for a rise(aka my last post)

 

[bird crew]

I think mainly a reason why piloswine is notably not one of the go to stealth rock users is that the majority of the time, the most common defog users and other stealth rock users are bulky water types that can take advantage of its weakness to scald, fish for a burn and defog consistently. Mons like prinplup, mantine, pelipper, seismitoad all feast on it. The exception would be archeops but is rarely seen as a defog user for most teams. With this, it makes pilo's already hard job harder to the point where it would allow a free defog every time it would come in and lose offensive pressure. I like pilo, i just think B is high enough.

Alright, that's definitely a good point. I've always paired Piloswine with Roselia to supplement some of these weaknesses, although pilo definitely relies on her typing/bulk in order to do his job. I will say though that pilo disposes of archeops so effortlessly every match, you can almost ignore it from team preview.

it can also do a nasty lure set with freeze dry so it can beat all of those mons 1v1 (With the exception of supergod prinplup) That does require investment however, and a reduction in speed which could be catastrophic, but its undoubtedly a way past its percieved "counters" and is really cool.

Personally to me, i dont think pilo should rise yet, but if seis and m-camel leave, it will certainly be a worthy contender for a rise(aka my last post)

This actually sounds really fascinating, and reminds me of the freeze-dry mamoswine set that gets used to counter Rotom-W in OU. I'll do some research on it, a base 60 special attack isn't that useless for a lure.

 

[Adaire]

Guys, I'm making a new clock !
Klinklang A--> A+
Reasoning: This pokemon is a threat right now, with a solid steel typing and a great stab move, I believe this thing is definitely worth of A+ rank, the fact this pokemon can set up on say many pokemon in the tier like Uxie, Cryogonal, Audino, Jynx, Muk, Musharna, Mantine (NU no scald), Scyther, Swellow, Xatu, Mesprit. It can then easily kill all these mons if not put severe damage on them to where you can revenge kill it easily. It's stats are 60/100/115/70/85/90, I would like you to focus on that incredible defense and above average speed, this makes this mon extremely good for setting up, not to mention it's ability Clear Body, clear body is amazing as it means pokemon like granbull and mawile can not come in on this mon. I would also like to point out that due to the new suspect of Typhlosion and Mega Camerupt, this has decreased there usage, which are two of the best mons to OHKO klinklang, although even they can't switch in on a plus 1 return. This pokemon has amazing partners that can counter the pesky water types that stop it which are still limited. I also need to talk about Shift Gear which raises your attack by one and your speed by two, this is very key to klinklang as it allows it to run more bulk over speed which benefits it's overall sweeping ability. It's other move is Gear Grind, this move hits twice with base 50 power so added up it's 100 base power base move with stab and the ability to brake sashes which also lets it counter a lot of leads as well, klinklang is the full package!

Evidence: Of course, I can't just say all these good things about klinklang and not provide at least a bit of evidence, so thanks to my friends SilverReaper21 and Winter's Howl for sweeping with this amazing pokemon. Sorry for lack there of.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nususpecttest-222804011
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nu-222564724

Conclusion: Klinklang is a very good pokemon with two good signatures moves that separate it from other pokemon in the tier that can set up. Yes it has it's flaws but if you didn't read what I previously just said it is definitely a high reward mon with low risk. TLDR; Gears are good for building clocks and for illegal imaginary animal fighting.

 

[Winter's Howl]

Standing behind the nomination of both Simipour and Klinklang. Both of these mons have put in work over my experience with them, especially Klinklang. Not going to say that Klinklang is THE best Pokemon in the tier, but it is up there with the best of them. English translation: Not good enough for S right now, but just right for A+.

 

[Teddeh]

Guys, I'm making a new clock !
Klinklang A--> A+
Reasoning: This pokemon is a threat right now, with a solid steel typing and a great stab move, I believe this thing is defiantly worth of A+ rank, the fact this pokemon can set up on say many pokemon in the tier like Uxie, Cryogonal, Audino, Liepard, Jynx, Muk, Musharna, Mantine (NU no scald), Scyther, Swellow, Xatu, Mesprit. It can then easily kill all these mons if not put severe damage on them to where you can revenge kill it easily. It's stats are 60/100/115/70/85/90, I would like you to focus on that incredible defense and above average speed, this makes this mon extremly good for setting up, not to mention it's ability Clear Body, clear body is amazing as it means pokemon like granbull and mawile can not come in on this mon. I would also like to point out that due to the new suspect of Typhlosion and Mega Camerupt, this has decreased there usage, which are two of the best mons to OHKO klinklang, although even they can't switch in on a plus 1 return. This pokemon has amazing partners that can counter the pesky water types that stop it which are still limited. I also need to talk about Shift Gear which raises your attack by one and your speed by two, this is very key to klinklang as it allows it to run more bulk over speed which benefits it's overall sweeping ability. It's other move is Gear Grind, this move hits twice with base 50 power so added up it's 100 base power base move with stab and the ability to brake sashes which also lets it counter a lot of leads as well, klinklang is the full package!

Evidence: Of course, I can;t just say all these good things about klinklang and not provide at least a bit of evidence, so thanks to my friends SilverReaper21 and Winter's Howl for sweeping with this amazing pokemon. Sorry for lack there off.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nususpecttest-222804011
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nu-222564724

Conclusion: Klinklang is a very good pokemon with two good signatures moves that separate it from other pokemon in the tier that can set up,yes it has it's flaws but if you didn't read what I previously just said it is definatly a high reward mon with low risk. TLDR; Gears are good for building clocks and for illegal imaginary animal fighting.

I'm just going to disagree for now since we have so many top tier threats that deal with klinklang reliably with mega-camel, seismitoad, gurdurr on nearly every team as well as the main stab move being inaccurate at 85% meaning it can't always reliably sweep. I'd suggest renominating this when tier shifts have happened. :]

 

[Of Moose & Men]

Alright so, this may seem like a fairly out of place nomination at first, but I want you all to hear me out for a second.

I'm gonna go ahead and say. . .

A- -> A

Alright, this may be met with some fairly good flack, and that's fine, I can understand why. I just want to at least express my views on why this thing should move up. So, for those of you that may or may not know, I wrote up an RMT back at the beginning of March (see my siggy) that was meant to showcase how obscenely powerful Mega Camerupt was in the metagame at the time. However, the more I played with it after the Suspect of Heliolisk and Steelix, the more I realized Camel wasn't really the star of my team. It was a tiny little nasty plotting leopard house cat hybrid. This, is by far, one of the, if not the, best Offensive pivots in the game right now. I've stuck to the Encore, Nasty Plot, Dark Pulse, Copycat set, and that is honestly all it needs. If played correctly, it can absolutely run train on opposing teams with some team support. With the decent sized lack of dark resists in the tier right now. Only 15 out of all relevant (I use that lightly in most cases) NU mons (AKA S - D ranks) resist Dark, something Liepard can REALLY run with. I honestly couldn't tell you how many times this thing won me games by itself. The best part about Liepard is not only is it capable of dealing massive amounts of damage, it's also capable of severely rendering some Pokemon almost useless. Forcing Set up mons into mind games that more times than not don't play out in their favor as Liepard comes in and locks them into their set up of choice. However, even with all this, these aren't even the best aspects of Liepard. . . No, where I feel Liepard shines the most is in copycat. Now yes, Copycat lost out on being able to activate priority roar. BUT, Liepard getting it has more than made up for it. Liepard is already a pretty fast mon as it is, add Prankster to it, and any move (that isn't - priority) is going first. What does that mean exactly? Well, that +2/+4/+6 dark pulse you fired off last turn is now the strongest priority move in all of NU. This essentially means, Scarfers are dead. Pokemon thinking they're faster, dead. Pokemon with priority of their own, dead. The only real problem being sash 'mons. What my point boils down to is simple, Liepard is capable of tearing apart most Offensive threats with little to no support, and when it does set up, it can be good game if used correctly, as well as cleaning up very nicely. I won't go as far as saying it's A+ worthy, but I feel Liepard is more than worthy of being A.

Sorry, I don't have any up to date Replays, I haven't been playing too much up until a couple weeks ago, and I wasn't exactly expecting to write this up. ._.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nususpecttest-213769535
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nususpecttest-213793541

I can get more as I get back into the groove of things.

EDIT: I realized I talked mainly about the NP set, however, this goes for any set in which Liepard runs encore, which should be all of them. Liepard just REALLY screws with the NU tier, while also being a cleaner if it is in fact the NP set..

 

[Liarliarpantsonfire]

I agree with Liepard moving up... being one of the few good Dark-types is definitely a plus in a tier that's pretty much defined by the Fighting/Psychic/Dark core. Prankster T-Wave and STAB Sucker Punch are also great with all the offensive threats running around. Not sure about the Copycat set but I can definitely see it catching people off guard.

Anyways just something else I noticed... Lickilicky is C rank while regular Audino is C+. Literally the only thing Audino has over Lickilicky is Regenerator. Stat-wise it is outclassed completely. Most notably offensively (base 85/80 vs 60/60). That leaves Audino as setup bait for most of the tier. Audino doesn't even get Body Slam which would at least be somewhat acceptable. Lickilicky isn't Taunt bait either because of Oblivious, unlike Audino. Then there's the fact that Lickilicky has the stats to make use of its diverse movepool. You can run multiple sets like SubSD, SD + 3 attacks with Lum, lure sets with Fire Blast (Ferroseed) or Power Whip (Rhydon, Seismitoad), Choice Band with STAB Explosion... That's a whole lot of viable options, not even considering gimmicks like Curse or Belly Drum.

And then there's Audino. Once it reveals Lefties you know its exact set, Wish/Protect/Heal Bell/Knock Off. It's going to be the same thing every single time. With Lickilicky it's not that simple. Imo all these factors warrant Lickilicky to move up or Audino to move down.

 

[bird crew]

I agree with Liepard moving up... being one of the few good Dark-types is definitely a plus in a tier that's pretty much defined by the Fighting/Psychic/Dark core. Prankster T-Wave and STAB Sucker Punch are also great with all the offensive threats running around. Not sure about the Copycat set but I can definitely see it catching people off guard.

Anyways just something else I noticed... Lickilicky is C rank while regular Audino is C+. Literally the only thing Audino has over Lickilicky is Regenerator. Stat-wise it is outclassed completely. Most notably offensively (base 85/80 vs 60/60). That leaves Audino as setup bait for most of the tier. Audino doesn't even get Body Slam which would at least be somewhat acceptable. Lickilicky isn't Taunt bait either because of Oblivious, unlike Audino. Then there's the fact that Lickilicky has the stats to make use of its diverse movepool. You can run multiple sets like SubSD, SD + 3 attacks with Lum, lure sets with Fire Blast (Ferroseed) or Power Whip (Rhydon, Seismitoad), Choice Band with STAB Explosion... That's a whole lot of viable options, not even considering gimmicks like Curse or Belly Drum.

And then there's Audino. Once it reveals Lefties you know its exact set, Wish/Protect/Heal Bell/Knock Off. It's going to be the same thing every single time. With Lickilicky it's not that simple. Imo all these factors warrant Lickilicky to move up or Audino to move down.