Totodile Revamp [QC 2/4]

[firehusky]

QC: OP / Hawkstar / /
GP: /​

Overview
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- Totodile's high Attack and Sheer Force makes it a powerful wallbreaker
- Access to good boosting moves such as Dragon Dance and Swords Dance
- Corphish generally outclasses Totodile even with Sheer Force, as it hits much harder and it's Knock Off can remove items
- Totodile has access to Ice Punch, allowing it to get past bulkier Grass-types, something Corphish cannot do

Dancing Crocodile
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name: Dancing Crocodile
move 1: Swords Dance / Dragon Dance
move 2: Waterfall
move 3: Aqua Jet / Superpower
move 4: Ice Punch
ability: Sheer Force
item: Eviolite / Life Orb
evs: 236 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
nature: Adamant

Moves
========

- Swords Dance raises Totodile's already high Attack stat
- Dragon Dance raises Totodile's Speed and Attack
- Waterfall is Totodile's strongest move, especially when boosted
- Aqua Jet allows Totodile to pick off faster weakened Pokemon, and can be used as a cleaning tool after a boost
- Superpower hits many Pokemon such as Ferroseed and Lileep, while also hitting many other Pokemon for neutral damage, such as Water-types
- Ice Punch hits Grass-types that resist Waterfall

Set Details
========

- The EVs maximize Attack and increase Speed, with the leftover EVs going into Defense for extra bulk
- Sheer Force powers up Totodile's primary STAB move and Ice Punch
- Eviolite boosts Totodile's bulk, making setting up easier
- Life Orb can be used for better damage output
- An Adamant nature is used so that Totodile hits as hard as possible

Usage Tips
========

- Totodile is a wallbreaker, usually you should use Swords Dance or Dragon Dance on a predicted switch and proceed to nuke whatever switches in, or just attack on the switch
- Set up on Pokemon that are forced out by Totodile, such as Archen, or when Totodile has the opportunity to sweep or put a dent in the opposing team
- Be sure to weaken Totodile's checks and counters before setting up so that it can break through them
- Don't try to get too greedy with boosting, as most of the time Totodile will only need one or two boosts to sweep a team
- Totodile dislikes status, as it cripples it, so try not to set up on something such as Porygon

Team Options
========

- Totodile also appreciates a Memento user such as Diglett, so that it has an easier time setting up
- Spritzee can use Aromatherapy to cure Totodile's status, and is also able to pass wishes to it
- Tirtouga can lure in Pokemon that hinder Totodile such as Slowpoke or Chinchou, and remove their items with Knock Off, making it easier to break through them
- Ferroseed has good synergy with Totodile, as Totodile can take Fire-type attacks for it, while Ferroseed resists Electric- and Grass-type moves; Ferroseed can also set up entry hazards for Totodile, allowing Totodile to achieve crucial 2HKOs and OHKOs
- Corphish pairs up nicely with Totodile, as one can remove the others counters, allowing one to sweep
- Magnet Pull Magnemite can trap Ferroseed for Totodile, allowing it to use Aqua Jet instead of Superpower

Other Options
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- Crunch hits Psychic-type and Ghost-type Pokemon such as Slowpoke and Frillish super effectively, and is also boosted by Sheer Force
- Aerial Ace is another coverage option that hits Croagunk, which otherwise walls Totodile
- Rock Slide hits Mantyke
- Iron Tail hits Snubbull and Spritzee

Checks & Counters
########

**Status Users**: Totodile lacks a way of removing status on it's own; burn and paralysis really hamper it, as they cut down on it's Attack and Speed respectively. Bulky Pokemon such as Slowpoke and Foonguss are able to sponge an attack and paralyze it.

**Revenge Killers**: Revenge killers such as Choice Scarf Ghastly and Pawniard are able to outspeed Totodile and revenge kill it if it is weakened slightly, assuming that they are healthy enough to survive an Aqua Jet. Priority users such as Fletchling can also revenge kill Totodile if weakened slightly. However, Swords Dance sets are harder to revenge kill, as not many Pokemon want to stomach a +2 Aqua Jet.

**Bulky Water-types**: Bulky Water-types such as Chinchou, Skrelp, and Slowpoke can easily switch in, sponge a hit, and retaliate back with their STAB moves, or neuter it with Thunder Wave. Skrelp resists all of Totodile's possible coverage moves unlike Slowbro, and it can also hit very hard.

**Croagunk**: Thanks to Dry Skin, Croagunk is immune to Water-type moves, and can retaliate back with it's STAB moves.

**Timburr**: Timburr can set up Bulk Up alongside Totodile while it sets up Dragon Dance, and can easily tank boosted hits thanks to Bulk Up boosting Defense. Timburr can even take a +2 Waterfall from Totodile after a Bulk Up boost and KO back with Drain Punch and Mach Punch.

 

[Goddess Briyella]

Be sure to highlight the fact that Corphish generally outclasses Totodile even now that it has Sheer Force. The only things Totodile has over it are access to Ice Punch and the fact that Crunch outdamages Corphish's Knock Off, but many players will prefer the added utility of removing items anyway.

 

[firehusky]

Be sure to highlight the fact that Corphish generally outclasses Totodile even now that it has Sheer Force. The only things Totodile has over it are access to Ice Punch and the fact that Crunch outdamages Corphish's Knock Off, but many players will prefer the added utility of removing items anyway.

Ok, thanks :]
Also, this is QC ready!

 

[SM979]

[not qc] those sets are practically the same exact thing; I'd just slash dragon dance after swords dance and call it a day

also change hippowdon to hippopotas u scrub

 

[firehusky]

[not qc] those sets are practically the same exact thing; I'd just slash dragon dance after swords dance and call it a day

also change hippowdon to hippopotas u scrub

I'll probably wait on more QC input before removing the DD set.
Nice catch!

 

[Kavatika]

I'm not sure that Brick Break should be given a slash. +2 Waterfall already OHKOes Munchlax without Life Orb, and with Life Orb it OHKOes defensive Porygon and Lickitung with SR and a little prior damage. That means Brick Break only handles Ferroseed, which frankly, can be handled with team support.

 

[firehusky]

I'm not sure that Brick Break should be given a slash. +2 Waterfall already OHKOes Munchlax without Life Orb, and with Life Orb it OHKOes defensive Porygon and Lickitung with SR and a little prior damage. That means Brick Break only handles Ferroseed, which frankly, can be handled with team support.

Ok, I'll remove it's slash and just mention it in moves.

 

[Kavatika]

Just move it to Other Options.

 

[Kavatika]

Overview:
On the first point, reword it to highlight Totodile's capabilities as a wallbreaker, instead of its viability in the metagame.

Remove "abysmal speed." Although Totodile isn't particularly fast, it has enough speed to outpace walls, and its speed functions well with Dragon Dance, allowing it to outpace the unboosted tier.

Swords Dance:
Moves:
For Waterfall, mention that it is Totodile's strongest move, especially when boosted.
Mention that Aqua Jet is to be used as a cleaning tool after a boost, and can also be used to revenge kill faster weakened pokemon.

Set Details:
The EVs portion needs to be reworked. Never mention the specific EV numbers unless you are talking about an alternate spread. You also mention that Speed is maximized when you are not running a +Speed nature. Instead mention that the EVs and nature maximize Attack and increases Speed, and the leftovers EVs go into defenses for extra bulk.

Usage Tips:
Make sure to emphasize Totodile's wallbreaking ability. It can SD on something that it forces out, and usually nuke whatever comes in, or simply attack on the switch.
The fact that Totodile doesn't like status is true, but you should not emphasize it. There are other things that Totodile dislikes more.

Team Options:
Again, you should not emphasize Totodile's dislike of status.

finishing later

 

[OP]

Really tired right now, but I'll give you a full check soon. I just wanted to say that I agree with combining the two sets into one. Reading the two sections, it sounds like almost exactly the same thing. It'd only need two different sets if the Team Options and usage drastically differed, but that isn't the case with Totodile.

Also remove the SpD EVs, they don't do anything

 

[firehusky]

Really tired right now, but I'll give you a full check soon. I just wanted to say that I agree with combining the two sets into one. Reading the two sections, it sounds like almost exactly the same thing. It'd only need two different sets if the Team Options and usage drastically differed, but that isn't the case with Totodile.

Also remove the SpD EVs, they don't do anything

Thanks :]
implemented

 

[OP]

Overview:
Water / Ice / Fighting coverage is pretty good coverage and it's also got some other things like Rock Slide and Crunch, so I'd remove the last point.

Set:
Change the name since we've combined the two sets.
Slash Superpower after Aqua Jet because it hits Ferroseed, Magnemite, Snover, Carvanha, OHKOs Pory and Lileep after an SD, and generally hits a lot of things for neutral damage like Water-types.

Moves: Obv add Superpower stuff

Set Details: Don't even mention Torrent, but do mention Sheer Force boosting Ice Punch.

Usage Tips:
Update to include DD with SD stuff.
You aren't only setting up when you force something out. You're setting up when you can heavily dent or sweep the opposing team.
Not setting up on Foongus is common sense haha, choose a different example like Porygon or Ponyta.

Team Options:
Tone down the status emphasizing! It hates status just as much as the next setup sweeper.
I don't really like the Foongus point, I'd get rid of it.
"appreciates a fast Memento user" --> "appreciates a Memento user" It just needs an effective one regardless of speed. If people are running slow Memento users and they find it good, there's no reason to not use it with Totodile.
Anything notable about Pawniard? Use an example that lures in and Knocks Off Eviolites from Pokemon that hinder Totodile like Chinchou or Slowpoke. Something like Tirtouga
Explain Ferroseed's synergy better. Ex: It covers both of totodile's weaknesses and Totodile covers its Fire weakness

Other Options:
Crunch hits Frillish as well.
Waterfall hits Fighting-types harder than Aerial Ace. Only reason to use it is Croagunk.
Remove Superpower and Brick Break

Checks and Counters:
"**Powerful Choice Scarf Users**" --> **Revenge Killers**
Add priority users and mention that SD set particularly has trouble being revenge'd
Remove Sash/Sturdy users
Anything notable about Timburr? I'd remove

QC 1/4

 

[firehusky]

Overview:
Water / Ice / Fighting coverage is pretty good coverage and it's also got some other things like Rock Slide and Crunch, so I'd remove the last point.

Set:
Change the name since we've combined the two sets.
Slash Superpower after Aqua Jet because it hits Ferroseed, Magnemite, Snover, Carvanha, OHKOs Pory and Lileep after an SD, and generally hits a lot of things for neutral damage like Water-types.

Moves: Obv add Superpower stuff

Set Details: Don't even mention Torrent, but do mention Sheer Force boosting Ice Punch.

Usage Tips:
Update to include DD with SD stuff.
You aren't only setting up when you force something out. You're setting up when you can heavily dent or sweep the opposing team.
Not setting up on Foongus is common sense haha, choose a different example like Porygon or Ponyta.

Team Options:
Tone down the status emphasizing! It hates status just as much as the next setup sweeper.
I don't really like the Foongus point, I'd get rid of it.
"appreciates a fast Memento user" --> "appreciates a Memento user" It just needs an effective one regardless of speed. If people are running slow Memento users and they find it good, there's no reason to not use it with Totodile.
Anything notable about Pawniard? Use an example that lures in and Knocks Off Eviolites from Pokemon that hinder Totodile like Chinchou or Slowpoke. Something like Tirtouga
Explain Ferroseed's synergy better. Ex: It covers both of totodile's weaknesses and Totodile covers its Fire weakness

Other Options:
Crunch hits Frillish as well.
Waterfall hits Fighting-types harder than Aerial Ace. Only reason to use it is Croagunk.
Remove Superpower and Brick Break

Checks and Counters:
"**Powerful Choice Scarf Users**" --> **Revenge Killers**
Add priority users and mention that SD set particularly has trouble being revenge'd
Remove Sash/Sturdy users
Anything notable about Timburr? I'd remove

QC 1/4

K, did everything, hope it's okay :]

 

[OP]

Oh you don't need to mention everything Superpower hits, I was just justifying putting it on the set. Just a couple or a broad statement but make sure you mention Ferroseed. Looks good otherwise

 

[macle]

just adding a few things

Phish + dile is really cool. One removes the others counters. Dile + magnet pull mag is also really cool to lure in ferroseed then trapping and you can use aj over super power.

 

[firehusky]

Oh you don't need to mention everything Superpower hits, I was just justifying putting it on the set. Just a couple or a broad statement but make sure you mention Ferroseed. Looks good otherwise

just adding a few things

Phish + dile is really cool. One removes the others counters. Dile + magnet pull mag is also really cool to lure in ferroseed then trapping and you can use aj over super power.

For some reason I didn't get these alerts, I'll implement them now!
edit: implemented!

 

[Lemonade]

I feel like DD and SD should not (ever) be slashed over each other. Now, Mambo and QuoteCS are bullies and won't let us build around Tots, but SD functions quite differently from DD in general. The main goal of SD I would say is to break through stuff. Rarely will you be sweeping, because stuff is faster than SD and Aqua Jet is too weak to clean up in most cases. However, DD can pull off a sweep because it won't really get revenged. The loss in power is made up by having teammates weaken everything first. This difference alone is enough to justify separate sets IMO, but there are also teammates. DD Tots I would imagine appreciates Corphish much more than SD Tots because Knock Off makes it easier to sweep; the extra power from the opponent losing bulk is not needed as much for SD Tots because it's boosting its Attack more. Instead, some other cleaner might appreciate SD Tots, whereas DD Tots would fall short in power in that situation.

 

[firehusky]

ok, so I have two different opinions on this, SD and DD are separate sets, and SD and DD should be slashed.
might need some more QC input

 

[Kavatika]

I'm agreeing with Lemonade, DD and SD should be seperate sets.

 

[firehusky]

k, I'll wait for one more.

 

[doomsday doink]

I concur

 

[firehusky]

I concur

then the sets shall be separate.

 

[Celestavian]

Checks and Counters:

OP asked you to remove Timburr from Checks and Counters, but I'm going to ask you to put it back. What makes it notable as a counter it that it destroys the Dragon Dance set by setting up alongside it. Timburr's Defense boosts counter your Attack boosts and your Speed is irrelevant in that situation. Timburr wins easily then crushes the rest of your team if you don't have a Fairy, which is the main threat here, not just to Totodile. SD sets are a bit trickier, but Timburr can easily take even a +2 LO Waterfall after a Bulk Up boost and KO with Drain Punch and Mach Punch.

Add Skrelp to Bulky Water-types section. It resists all of Waterfall/Aqua Jet, Superpower, and Ice Punch, and isn't weak to any of the coverage moves you listed unlike Slowpoke. It also hits insanely hard.

QC 2/4

 

[firehusky]

Checks and Counters:

OP asked you to remove Timburr from Checks and Counters, but I'm going to ask you to put it back. What makes it notable as a counter it that it destroys the Dragon Dance set by setting up alongside it. Timburr's Defense boosts counter your Attack boosts and your Speed is irrelevant in that situation. Timburr wins easily then crushes the rest of your team if you don't have a Fairy, which is the main threat here, not just to Totodile. SD sets are a bit trickier, but Timburr can easily take even a +2 LO Waterfall after a Bulk Up boost and KO with Drain Punch and Mach Punch.

Add Skrelp to Bulky Water-types section. It resists all of Waterfall/Aqua Jet, Superpower, and Ice Punch, and isn't weak to any of the coverage moves you listed unlike Slowpoke. It also hits insanely hard.

QC 2/4

thanks, I implemented the checks!
I write this up after I get one more check, right?

 

[Kavatika]

yeah, you need 3 qc checks before you do the writeup