Inheritance [Prime Council Elected]

to be honest, i question why you don't use something with a bit more offensive capability like...terrakion/raikou,or heck, even jolteon. they are able to threaten defensive pokemon considerably even with the vest being tricked away via high jump kick/boltbeam. and can lure plenty of pokemon that your team could potentially want crippled like doublade/aegislash/chansey, and its not a sitting duck vs offense. ninjask might be fast...but what do you intend to outspeed? well, i guess encorepass is a reason, but otherwise, id imagine using something more offensive could be helpful or just flat out better. doesn't help that the most common setup sweepers have a way around encore with STAB priority lmao, but hey, if it works, it works.
i agree with lcass, if i see a ninjask i'd probably use something offensive to take it out. but if you use something that is normally checked/countered by the premier inheritance walls such as Doublade and Chansey (such as, i dunno, greninja), then they will have more incentive to send in their walls against you.
 
Re: Protean

Before I begin please note I am not trying to argue for a ban, I'm personally on the fence, but I think people are misunderstanding what I think the potential problem(s) with Protean actually is/are. I don't like people dismissing my concern on an inaccurate basis.

Point the first: Protean reduces a Pokemon down to its stats alone for determining usability. This is arguably true of a lot of stall donors, but stallmons don't punch holes in teams in one turn. This makes Protean uniquely capable of being slapped, viably, onto virtually any competent offensive choice. And you can still slap it onto stall choices if you want to take Kecleon's access to Recover and Stealth Rock as a starting point, so just assuming Protean=offense is not a certainty!

Contrast this with other offensive donors, and you will find they all struggle with some degree of limitations. Keldeo, for instance, is a fairly limited donor, because Lucario is basically the only other Specially-strong Fighting type to take advantage of STAB Secret Sword, and outside Secret Sword Keldeo's movepool is limited and overall inferior to myriad other choices. (And Justified synergizes poorly with inheriting from Keldeo for its Special movepool) Talonflame is a relatively predictable donor, because if it's not a Physical Flying type, Talonflame is an iffy donor for it. I can go on forever here -Guts is bad on Fire types and useless for Special attackers, Toxic Boost is useless to Poison and Steel types and Special attackers, Flare Boost is useless to Fire types and Physical attackers, Mega Launcher is useless to Physical attackers....

Point the second: Arguably a sub-point of the first point, Protean can take any bad or problematic typing and make it go away. There are narrow, specific cases of other Abilities allowing one to enhance a specific typing (Desolate Land covering for a double Water weakness, Primordial Sea or Flashfire covering for a double Fire weakness, most notably leaving Bug/Steel with no weaknesses), but these can all be predicted to an extent and in some cases actively announce themselves on switch-in. (eg Primordial Sea, potentially Levitate if you have Spikes and/or Toxic Spikes and/or Sticky Web up) Only Protean can take literally any typing and make it better.

Point the third: Within battle Protean provides benefits that overlap with the utility of U-Turn/Volt Switch/Baton Pass/Parting Shot -if you outspeed the target (Or use priority!) you can predict their attack, get in damage, and go from being vulnerable to being resistant, or even immune! (This being equivalent to U-Turning out into something resistant or immune to the oncoming attack, albeit lacking the part where you see the enemy's choice to switch or lack thereof first) This provides Protean users with remarkable durability, effectively doubling or quadrupling (Or more) their relative durability against what should be able to do severe damage. Hi Fur Coat, I'm laughing at you right now. Anybody who went through all my replays might have noticed I started out with Life Orbs and transitioned to Leftovers, and my team's survivability went way up once it wasn't killing itself.

You'd think this would be a trivial detail against stallmons, except even then it can be huge. Flamethrower or Fire Punch allows Kecleon inheritors to spontaneously ignore Will O Wisp, Toxic Spikes (Let alone Toxic itself) can get in work while laughing at a Toxic attempt, Grass Knot can provide Spore immunity (Which is not trivial given how often Spore inheritors aren't Grass types -Terrakion is a favorite, and Grass Knot is excellent against it anyway!), and of course Thunderbolt/Punch can block a Thunder Wave attempt. Or heck, you can Thunder Wave them first!

It can be ridiculously hard to get in reasonable damage on a Protean target, allowing even relatively fragile inheritors to just keep going and going and going...

Point the fourth: Protean is not centered on Mega abuse. This might seem a bit odd to point out, but it's true -Boomburst is mostly notable if donated to Mega Gardevoir, Mega Altaria, or Mega Glalie. Extreme Speed is mostly notable if donated to Mega Altaria or Mega Glalie. (Or Adaptability Extreme Speed can be granted to a Normal type via Mega Lucario, but you still have some clue) Several of the really extreme beneficiaries are inherently restricted by the fact that they have to be a Mega to really produce the most absolutely ridiculous results, making it easier to predict and account for the possibility.

Point the fifth: Protean doesn't announce itself. While this is true of most possible donors, some of the most alarming ones provide an immediate announcement of the possibility upon switch-in -GeoKiss is not only an obvious possibility at team preview, but is explicitly confirmed the instant it switches in and Togekiss has a Fairy Aura. Rain-boosted Water Spout shenanigans are revealed the instant Primordial Sea kicks in, and still extremely likely if ordinary Drizzle is what kicks in. Rayquaza's powerful movepool (Extreme Speed, Dragon Ascent, V-Create...) is bluntly confirmed by either Air Lock or more typically Delta Stream kicking in. Most of the most dangerous things that need to be responded to immediately give away the game the instant they switch in.

Point the sixth: Even though Protean announces itself upon using a move, it remains unpredictable. Even once you've narrowed it down to Greninja or Kecleon, it's still really hard to say what the rest of its movepool looks like, and it really matters that you don't know. Depending on their movepool, maybe X switch-in will flat-out stop them, or maybe it be hit with a super effective Knock Off on the way in. (Or maybe they'll just U-Turn out, ha ha) Other donors, once identified, can be predicted to a meaningful extent and accounted for -especially since anything in their movepool that isn't a STAB move will be weaker and thus even a switch-in vulnerable to the move has decent odds of being able to switch in on the move. (Assuming it's not a double weakness, at least) A lot of donors, even ones with wide movepools, will still in practice tend to amount to a very restricted set of possibilities for the Pokemon inheriting, because anything else would be so sub-optimal that it only makes sense as a lure, if that. This doesn't remotely apply to Protean, where even not knowing the fourth move can be cause for nail-biting and bad decisions -one of my matches my opponent was legitimately concerned my Pokemon's last move was Sucker Punch, and this nearly cost them the match because they didn't want to risk losing their Fake Outer to a Sucker Punch. (It was Knock Off)

Point the seventh: For any move that wouldn't normally be a STAB move on the Pokemon, Protean is a Choice-level boost, for free. It's easy to say "well Protean is less of a boost for STAB moves than Guts or the like", but that's misleading. Dragon is a bad offensive type in Gen VI, only really worthwhile to run on Dragons because it is a STAB move -and Protean Haxorus cares not one whit that it's abandoning Dragon STAB because now everything else (ie the moves with actually good types) has a Band-level boost off its 147 Attack, with no disadvantage. So too for Normal attackers, only more so, also Psychic is a depressing offensive type, and even examples like Bug and Grass that are heavily resisted but technically have offensive value can get use out of it too.

Meanwhile all the Abilities that substantially upgrade a Pokemon's broad offensive prowess fall under one of two categories.

1: Banned. (Huge Power, Pure Power)

2: Either the boost is its only advantage (eg Tough Claws, which is a weaker boost anyway) or it has an inherent disadvantage to using it (Guts, Flare Boost, Toxic Boost) or both. (Hustle)

Nothing else legal has anywhere near the level of offensive pressure without either having a direct cost (Health and your item slot for Guts) or being so narrowly focused it makes you very predictable. (Strong Jaw and Mega Launcher) And then they still lack the other qualities that make Protean amazing! (Albeit some of them have their own advantages)

---

tl;dr version Protean is not just flexible/versatile, otherwise I wouldn't care because that's pretty intrinsic to Inheritance, it has other qualities people seem to be ignoring that are completely unique to it and actually legitimately amazing.
First of all this is excellent. This the standard that we should all follow in making our argument. Perfect! Good job!

All you said is true, you put out both sides of the argument. But what you didn't mention ( it's easy to forget) is that in this metagame I believe Protean is NOT broken. In something like OU or AAA it was, and is. In both OU and AAA the metagame is heavily offensive, making offensive teams the best way to go. In an offensive metagame Protean is broken. Offensive pokemon with glass offence struggle severely against Protean pokemon as they're essentially packing a band.
However in Inheritance Stall is the dominant play style. And if we were to ban Protean it would only make stall broken, that's what we accomplish. That's why I believe it should not be broken, atleast not before we have a way to deal with Stall
 
This combo (and a few others) can make endless battles in this meta despite the clause (note that this is also possible on regular OU games, but here you can use a very tanky pokemon)

Ninjask @ Eject Button
Ability: Harvest
EVs: 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Def / 0 SpD
- Skill Swap
Inherits from Trevenant

Cresselia (F) @ Leppa Berry
Ability: Trace
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Wish
- Mean Look
- Protect
- Heal Pulse
Inherits from Gardevoir

Ninjask leads, gives Harvest to the opponent, dies.
Cress comes in, Traces Harvest and traps whatever can't 2HKO it. Now Harvest will restore your Leppa so you never run out of PP and you can Heal Pulse the enemy for him not to die
 
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This combo (and a few others) can make endless battles in this meta despite the clause (note that this is also possible on regular OU games, but here you can use a very tanky pokemon)

Ninjask @ Eject Button
Ability: Harvest
EVs: 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Def / 0 SpD
- Skill Swap
Inherits from Trevenant

Cresselia (F) @ Leppa Berry
Ability: Trace
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Wish
- Mean Look
- Protect
- Heal Pulse
Inherits from Gardevoir

Ninjask leads, gives Harvest to the opponent, dies.
Cress comes in, Traces Harvest and traps whatever can't 2HKO it. Now Harvest will restore your Leppa so you never run out of PP and you can Heal Pulse the enemy for him not to die
Therefore, we clearly need to ban Leppa Berry + Trace in this metagame, since Endless Battle clause says any way to force an endless battle.
 
Therefore, we clearly need to ban Leppa Berry + Trace in this metagame, since Endless Battle clause says any way to force an endless battle.
It can also be done in regular metagames btw, and this is not the only strategy that can do so.
Accelgor @ Leppa Berry
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Switcheroo
- Tailwind
- Taunt
- Encore
Inherits from Whimsicott

Ninjask @ Eject Button
Ability: Truant
EVs: 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Entrainment
Inherits from Durant

Gothitelle @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Shadow Tag
Serious Nature
- Trick
- Protect
- Recycle
- Filler
Doesn't inherit.
Give your opponent the leppa with Accelgor, put up a Tailwind if possible (not really necesary),die, then give him Truant with Ninjask, either die or get swithced out by the eject button. Take the leppa back with Gothitelle. Protect on the turns he can attack and use a random filler the turns Truant kicks in.
 
It can also be done in regular metagames btw, and this is not the only strategy that can do so.
Accelgor @ Leppa Berry
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Switcheroo
- Tailwind
- Taunt
- Encore
Inherits from Whimsicott

Ninjask @ Eject Button
Ability: Truant
EVs: 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Entrainment
Inherits from Durant

Gothitelle @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Shadow Tag
Serious Nature
- Trick
- Protect
- Recycle
- Filler
Doesn't inherit.
Give your opponent the leppa with Accelgor, put up a Tailwind if possible (not really necesary),die, then give him Truant with Ninjask, either die or get swithced out by the eject button. Take the leppa back with Gothitelle. Protect on the turns he can attack and use a random filler the turns Truant kicks in.
So a move's pp doesn't get consumed if you Protect?

Edit: just realized you can Protect from struggle infinite times.
 
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I tried it, the problem with it is that a(Landot doesn't care about ignoring its Water weakness, and Glalie probably kills anyway, and b(if you use it you can't use other Landos. Gale Landot does as much damage.

I prefer for a Rayquaza inheritance either Dragonite or Charizard@MegastoneX, because they aren't insanely useful at everything else. (Charizard because Ray gets V-Create)
...? Delta Stream isn't any protection against Water. Flying isn't weak to Water.

Regardless, I'm aware it's probably a sub-optimal choice, I just find it strange I haven't seen it.

First of all this is excellent. This the standard that we should all follow in making our argument. Perfect! Good job!

All you said is true, you put out both sides of the argument. But what you didn't mention ( it's easy to forget) is that in this metagame I believe Protean is NOT broken. In something like OU or AAA it was, and is. In both OU and AAA the metagame is heavily offensive, making offensive teams the best way to go. In an offensive metagame Protean is broken. Offensive pokemon with glass offence struggle severely against Protean pokemon as they're essentially packing a band.
However in Inheritance Stall is the dominant play style. And if we were to ban Protean it would only make stall broken, that's what we accomplish. That's why I believe it should not be broken, atleast not before we have a way to deal with Stall
That reminds me: I didn't mention in that post itself, though I have mentioned it elsewhere, but you can lock down most stallmons by simply Tricking them a Choice item. This is extremely effective against stallmons, the Choice item remains relevant against more offensive teams (Makes up for whatever firepower you lack relative to other possible Abilities), and it's not even really a "dead" moveslot after use since it is possible to Trick for some other item later.

This is part of my concern, because it provides an extra layer of utility against stall teams, which hurts exactly the argument you're making -that Protean is killer against offense but not so good at handling stall, and therefore a stall-heavy meta makes Protean less powerful. This is true, but not to the extent you're suggesting, because a Protean-mon can absolutely spec itself to contribute against stall with minimal damage to its utility to offense. (Even Hyper Offense will often lead with a Pokemon that hates being Tricked a Choice item, like a Suicide Shuckle/Galvantula Sticky Web/Hazards Lead)

The biggest flaw with Protean that I didn't cover is the lack of hazard management, which is only really a flaw for a gimmick Protean team... and my gimmick Protean team has done just fine regardless!

Again: I'm on the fence myself. But I think people have dismissed the possibility of Protean being broken, not because it's obviously not, but because they're thinking of it in very narrow terms. ("Protean is flexible, just like the entire metagame, and therefore nothing special") Even if it's not broken I still think it's an inappropriate attitude to take toward an extremely useful Ability/pair of donors, because it implicitly dismisses a lot of their value and thus underestimates them.

to be honest, i question why you don't use something with a bit more offensive capability like...terrakion/raikou,or heck, even jolteon. they are able to threaten defensive pokemon considerably even with the vest being tricked away via high jump kick/boltbeam. and can lure plenty of pokemon that your team could potentially want crippled like doublade/aegislash/chansey, and its not a sitting duck vs offense. ninjask might be fast...but what do you intend to outspeed? well, i guess encorepass is a reason, but otherwise, id imagine using something more offensive could be helpful or just flat out better. doesn't help that the most common setup sweepers have a way around encore with STAB priority lmao, but hey, if it works, it works.
My personal choice for balancing "ludicrously fast" with "has actual offensive presence" would be Accelgor, which is only outsped by Ninjask, Deoxys, and several Megas, has OK bulk (Given how fast it is) and decent Special Attack. Bug isn't a great typing, mind, so Jolteon has advantages (Neutral to Stealth Rock, if you care), but overall Accelgor seems the winner for this set.
 
...? Delta Stream isn't any protection against Water. Flying isn't weak to Water.

Regardless, I'm aware it's probably a sub-optimal choice, I just find it strange I haven't seen it.
*facepalm*
I meant to say "getting a resistance to Rock" and then I forgot how to remember stuff when I posted.
 

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
My personal choice for balancing "ludicrously fast" with "has actual offensive presence" would be Accelgor, which is only outsped by Ninjask, Deoxys, and several Megas, has OK bulk (Given how fast it is) and decent Special Attack. Bug isn't a great typing, mind, so Jolteon has advantages (Neutral to Stealth Rock, if you care), but overall Accelgor seems the winner for this set.
yeah, i agree but the reason i didnt choose to mention it is because although having good traits, it loses out on STAB making it significantly weaker, at the cost of 15 extra speed, and better bulk. however, that doesn't mean gors a bad choice, i just dismissed it due to the lack of stab, which is the entire reason jolteon/raikou/terrak were even mentioned lol.
 

xJownage

Even pendulums swing both ways
This has to be my favorite OMotM and I hope it stays forever. One of the most fun things is guessing what your opponents' Pokemon inherit so you can actually play around them, and that takes a ton of knowledge.

@ Manectite [
]
Ability: Download
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Recover / Pain Split

This is prob my fav set because it's Manectric it outspeeds all of the top tier offensive threats and OHKOs pretty much all of them after a Nasty Plot. Intimidate + Download gives 2 free stat boosts/drops which is super cool. Sometimes, a Download boost is enough to sweep teams. Manectric can actually set up on a couple things after an Indimidate drop using Recover; it doesn't always have to force switches to grab a boost. I playtested with Pain Split a bit to abuse Unaware Cresselia switch-ins, but its potential was really limited. This set plows through teams that rely on Unaware Suicune to handle setup sweepers. Also people never expect Ice Beam lol.


@ Lum Berry / Leftovers [
]
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Hurricane
- Fire Blast
- Roost

I tried this on a whim thinking it would just suck and do nothing, but I'm surprised--it actually became one of the best members of my team. Roosting on physical moves that do ~60% over and over is hilarious because they never expect to get burned, giving more set-up opportunities. I like Lum Berry to deal with Unaware Suicune's Scald and random Prankster T-Waves, but Leftovers helps set up on more offensive threats. If I don't reveal Flame Body throughout the game, Fire Blast sometimes gets surprise kills during a sweep. Quick question, though: what type does this thing become after a Roost? lol

EDIT:

Figured I'd post a dump of some interesting sets I'm going to test:
->
@ Manectite [
]
Ability: Drizzle -> Intimidate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Calm Mind
- Thunder
- Ice Beam
- Origin Pulse

@ Life Orb [
]
Ability: Aerilate
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Frustration
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake

->
@ Cameruptite [
]
Ability: Regenerator -> Sheer Force
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Nasty Plot
- Trick Room
- Fire Blast
- Ice Beam

@ Life Orb [
]
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Tail Glow
- Shadow Ball
- Rest
- Ice Beam
Using this set on a rain team.
OML so many good sets I love you.

252+ Atk Choice Band Landorus-T Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Manectric: 210-248 (74.7 - 88.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Manectric is actually a great idea. Its power is surprising with a download boost, and after a nasty plot as well, it becomes nearly impossible to wall without unaware or some gimmicky sdef magnezone set (don't use that). It also, like you said, outspeeds all the relevant offensive threats in the metagame and provides a tremendous amount of utility for offense due to its speed, intimidate, and download. I am in love with this set, my friend.

The tornadus I am skeptical about because tornadus has mediocre stats, and I think there is a possibility it is outclassed by, say, thundurus, which also resists lant's brave bird. Its a good set, however, and I can attest to how annoying flame body is to offense especially. The confuse risk on hurricane can make up for the accuracy at times, and as a result I think this is a nice set.

For the second manectric set, I prefer the porygon one. Nasty plot is huge, and calm mind isn't doing a whole lot for it with its lack of physical bulk. The extra boost, as well as download, make the first set superior to me. Its not to say that the other set isn't viable, because the utility from drizzle on rain teams could be great (and they can always use those pivots), but I prefer the porygon set.

Aero is a great set. Aerilate returns boosted by a life orb give it a more than great chance to make up for its rather lacking base 105 attack, and the power it packs is very high with that move. Unfortunately, this set does have its flaws. Flying types are overprepared for in this metagame, with lant being so common, many counters such as unaware rhypherior still exist and can beat it. Its still a great mon and the high speed is wonderful for offense, and the power is very nice. Swords dance is a great perk as well.

I'd like to nominate Ursaring to B-/B rank with Mega Lucario and Linoone as donors.

Ursaring @ Life Orb
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Close Combat
- Crunch / Agility
- Swords Dance

Ursaring @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Pickup
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- ExtremeSpeed
- Substitute / Shadow Claw
- Seed Bomb

Ursaring has the highest attack of any Normal type that isn't banned or a mega, hitting a whooping 394 attack stat. In this meta, having strong priority is a must, and the power Ursaring can dish out with a 80 BP move is pretty nice.

252+ Atk Pixilate Mega Altaria Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 166-196 (48.6 - 57.4%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Refrigerate Mega Glalie Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 177-208 (51.9 - 60.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Ursaring Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 187-222 (54.8 - 65.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 213-252 (62.4 - 73.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

That's insane. It outdamages Mega Glalie and Mega Altaria, and is pretty close to Mega Pinsir's damage output. Though if you want to factor in Adaptability with the SD set, you have this a damage output very close to LO Refrigerate Weavile's Return.

So it hits super hard, next lets get to the sets. The first one being an SD set inheriting from Mega Lucario, gives it Adaptability, which ups its priority's power even more. Close Combat is to hit the plenty of Steel and Rock types in the tier, as well as slow bulky Normals. SD is SD, increasing Ursaring's sweeping potential. Finally, Crunch can be used to hit Ghost types, which would otherwise wall you, while Agility, which seems like a weird option on a set when you have Extreme Speed as your main move, but this allows you to out prioritize the other E-Speeders, mainly Pinsir and Glalie.

Secondly the Belly Drum set is mainly what comes to mind when you see Ursaring in Inheritance. Everything you see is what you would expect, with Substitute being an option to dodge status and/or get up a safe Belly Drum, but Shadow Claw can be used if you have trouble with Ghosts.


But Ursaring isn't without faults, it has pretty bad bulk, so whatever can live a boosted Extreme Speed can probably revenge it(though that isn't a lot). Plus with its low speed, it is often out prioritized by the other E-Speeders in the tier without Agility, which can be hard to pull off with its low bulk. It has a hard time setting up vs. Offense, and status can cripple it if it doesn't have Sub, and tbh it's kinda ugly.
But I'm not advocating for the new S rank, just B- or B, as while Ursaring has flaws, it still can be a nightmare to unprepared teams, and can be hard to build for, so I feel it should be in the upper rankings.
Its a good analysis of Ursaring, but Ursaring is already in B+, so yeah. I feel it is material for B+ as well due to its insane damage output. The one thing I disagree with is the statement that Ursaring is expected to be bellyspeed; I find this incorrect and assume something like tauros will bellyspeed instead due to the higher speed letting it outspeed the -ate megas. Regardless, it is highly effective.

Gimmick coming through!
Ninjask @ Assault Vest
Ability: Klutz
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Baton Pass
- Switcheroo
- Filler (Encore, Healing Wish, Toxic, Heal Bell, etc)
This set inherits from Lopunny. Primary purpose is Klutz+Trick with AV, which cripples a ton of stuff. Baton Pass allows it to escape to Switcheroo another day, Fake Out is for chip damage, and the filler move lets it perform something needed. You could probably adjust the EV spread a little but honestly this thing isn't going to be living a hit anyway.
Gimmick to say the least, I remember using a klutz + AV deo-s lead in BH when I was a noob! Not to call you a noob, its a cool set since it renders a lot of stall mons useless and is a nice pivot against stall teams. Its a cool af set, even if gimmicky.
First of all this is excellent. This the standard that we should all follow in making our argument. Perfect! Good job!

All you said is true, you put out both sides of the argument. But what you didn't mention ( it's easy to forget) is that in this metagame I believe Protean is NOT broken. In something like OU or AAA it was, and is. In both OU and AAA the metagame is heavily offensive, making offensive teams the best way to go. In an offensive metagame Protean is broken. Offensive pokemon with glass offence struggle severely against Protean pokemon as they're essentially packing a band.
However in Inheritance Stall is the dominant play style. And if we were to ban Protean it would only make stall broken, that's what we accomplish. That's why I believe it should not be broken, atleast not before we have a way to deal with Stall
This is actually incorrect. Protean is more difficult for offense and balance to handle, not stall. Stall by default has multiple protean checks/counters, and normally a hard counter, which neither offense or balance can even afford to run. Offense has problems with priority spam and general sucker punch, while balance struggles with the power and coverage it possesses (too many s's). Stall doesn't have nearly as much of a problem, and as a result I strongly disagree with the statement that protean would make it harder to beat stall. If anything, it would give offense more flexibility and the influx of stallbreakers would make STALL harder to play, not the other way around. Despite what ghoul king said about trick, there is still the fact that stands: Protean is more of a hinderance to offense and balance playstyles than it is to stall. Only stall can run a dedicated counter to it, and checks it multiple times by default, so they don't have to worry in the first place. Meanwhile, offense has a huge problem consistently countering it, and the unpredictability and sheer power makes it very troubling for balance as well.
I hate to be THAT GUY when it comes to sharing replays, but this is really something special lol. He thinks he has me with a sweep 2 times, but...... well just watch.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/inheritance-224563087
If we're posting replays of making Brownbear forfeit
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/inheritance-224578015
Can we not attempt to intentionally embarass an inheritance player? This is not what I want to be the reputation of this metagame's playerbase...
 
Its a good analysis of Ursaring, but Ursaring is already in B+, so yeah. I feel it is material for B+ as well due to its insane damage output. The one thing I disagree with is the statement that Ursaring is expected to be bellyspeed; I find this incorrect and assume something like tauros will bellyspeed instead due to the higher speed letting it outspeed the -ate megas. Regardless, it is highly effective.
I don't see it there. Plus I don't think it is B+ just yet. It still has low bulk and speed and needs Agility to outpace the other -ate megas' priority. It has slight 4MSS, for the SD set he needs both SD and Extreme Speed to function as the late game sweeper he is. But he needs Close Combat to take out the Normal resists in the tier, and Crunch is needed to not be walled by ghost types, mainly Doublade. But Agility is needed to not be revenged by Mega Pinsir and Mega Glalie. I'm sure there are more options, while less effective, like Blaze Kick and Iron Tail.
Plus if Mega Scizor is B- and Mega Slowbro is B, then Ursaring is definitely B- or B.

To avoid double posting, here's a set I find interesting.


Bisharp @ Life Orb / Black Glasses
Ability: Dark Aura
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Steel Wing
- Knock Off
- U-turn / Hone Claws / Zen Headbutt / Roost

This is what I love about this meta, there is sooo many things that are viable, and being the meta is new, you can discover so much, maybe even something that could shake up the meta. Dark Aura Bisharp is something I'm surprised to not see any discussion, it boosts the power of your main STAB, giving it very powerful priority, as well as new options such as U-Turn and Roost.
 
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xJownage

Even pendulums swing both ways
I don't see it there. Plus I don't think it is B+ just yet. It still has low bulk and speed and needs Agility to outpace the other -ate megas' priority. It has slight 4MSS, for the SD set he needs both SD and Extreme Speed to function as the late game sweeper he is. But he needs Close Combat to take out the Normal resists in the tier, and Crunch is needed to not be walled by ghost types, mainly Doublade. But Agility is needed to not be revenged by Mega Pinsir and Mega Glalie. I'm sure there are more options, while less effective, like Blaze Kick and Iron Tail.
Plus if Mega Scizor is B- and Mega Slowbro is B, then Ursaring is definitely B- or B.
B+ rank
Ursaring (Lucario-Mega, Pikachu, Genesect, Linoone)
Yeah, its there; the OP isn't updated. I might make a seperate thread if eevee lets me, but don't get your hopes up, because I don't think thats gonna happen ("i'll see" is the best answer I got). The original viability rankings on Page 29 are the ones to look for. Snaquaza I will tag you each time I update the viability rankings so we can keep the OP up to date, and this tag is for the recent changes.

As for your argument on Ursa not worth B+, think about it this way.
252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Ursaring Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 273-322 (85.5 - 100.9%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
It literally can 6-0 hyper offensive teams without even setting up; its mere presence its enough to send many HO players off screaming (except me). With agility it sweeps everything, and even unboosted it can sweep everything. Its not too hard to find a time to SD against balanced offense, and if you do, its pretty much gg. Its sheer power exceeds that of MEGA PINSIR, which is absolutely astronomical, and it is no disappointment in practice. Overall, It is worthy of B+, since Mega Scizor is mediocre and doesn't hit hard enough, while Mega Slowbro finds itself overpowered amidst a sea of powerful attackers. Seriously, this thing is so real I almost considered A-.
 

Gimmick

Electric potential
OML so many good sets I love you.

252+ Atk Choice Band Landorus-T Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Manectric: 210-248 (74.7 - 88.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Manectric is actually a great idea. Its power is surprising with a download boost, and after a nasty plot as well, it becomes nearly impossible to wall without unaware or some gimmicky sdef magnezone set (don't use that). It also, like you said, outspeeds all the relevant offensive threats in the metagame and provides a tremendous amount of utility for offense due to its speed, intimidate, and download. I am in love with this set, my friend.

The tornadus I am skeptical about because tornadus has mediocre stats, and I think there is a possibility it is outclassed by, say, thundurus, which also resists lant's brave bird. Its a good set, however, and I can attest to how annoying flame body is to offense especially. The confuse risk on hurricane can make up for the accuracy at times, and as a result I think this is a nice set.

For the second manectric set, I prefer the porygon one. Nasty plot is huge, and calm mind isn't doing a whole lot for it with its lack of physical bulk. The extra boost, as well as download, make the first set superior to me. Its not to say that the other set isn't viable, because the utility from drizzle on rain teams could be great (and they can always use those pivots), but I prefer the porygon set.

Aero is a great set. Aerilate returns boosted by a life orb give it a more than great chance to make up for its rather lacking base 105 attack, and the power it packs is very high with that move. Unfortunately, this set does have its flaws. Flying types are overprepared for in this metagame, with lant being so common, many counters such as unaware rhypherior still exist and can beat it. Its still a great mon and the high speed is wonderful for offense, and the power is very nice. Swords dance is a great perk as well.
Thanks! I agree with you -- the second Manectric set was really underwhelming tbh. The lack of Nasty Plot and Download was detrimental to its potential. The Porygon set has been working much better, especially vs HO teams.

You're right about the Tornadus set too. It's completely outclassed by Thundurus, or even better, Zapdos:

@ Leftovers [
]
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Quiver Dance
- Roost
- Hurricane
- Will-O-Wisp / Fire Blast

This set is so, so good. It's an amazing answer to all the Flying spam because it resists their coverage moves as well (Close Combat/EQ) and practically rewards you for switching it in by spreading burns. Since it's an Electric type, Prankster T-Wave is no longer an issue. It's a total upgrade from the Tornadus set I posted. It's both a defensive wall with recovery and a very powerful sweeper. I honestly think it even deserves to be on the viability rankings, possibly even higher than Ho-Oh. I don't think it needs much explanation other than that.

Yeah Aero was an interesting choice because it's not really powerful, but it has an excellent speed tier. I still have yet to even get up an SD with that set, but if I do, I'm sure it'll be fun.
 
Yeah, its there; the OP isn't updated. I might make a seperate thread if eevee lets me, but don't get your hopes up, because I don't think thats gonna happen ("i'll see" is the best answer I got). The original viability rankings on Page 29 are the ones to look for. Snaquaza I will tag you each time I update the viability rankings so we can keep the OP up to date, and this tag is for the recent changes.

As for your argument on Ursa not worth B+, think about it this way.
252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Ursaring Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 273-322 (85.5 - 100.9%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
It literally can 6-0 hyper offensive teams without even setting up; its mere presence its enough to send many HO players off screaming (except me). With agility it sweeps everything, and even unboosted it can sweep everything. Its not too hard to find a time to SD against balanced offense, and if you do, its pretty much gg. Its sheer power exceeds that of MEGA PINSIR, which is absolutely astronomical, and it is no disappointment in practice. Overall, It is worthy of B+, since Mega Scizor is mediocre and doesn't hit hard enough, while Mega Slowbro finds itself overpowered amidst a sea of powerful attackers. Seriously, this thing is so real I almost considered A-.
Ah okay then, I can see why it is B+ now, thanks for the info. :]
 
Thanks! I agree with you -- the second Manectric set was really underwhelming tbh. The lack of Nasty Plot and Download was detrimental to its potential. The Porygon set has been working much better, especially vs HO teams.

You're right about the Tornadus set too. It's completely outclassed by Thundurus, or even better, Zapdos:

@ Leftovers [
]
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Quiver Dance
- Roost
- Hurricane
- Will-O-Wisp / Fire Blast

This set is so, so good. It's an amazing answer to all the Flying spam because it resists their coverage moves as well (Close Combat/EQ) and practically rewards you for switching it in by spreading burns. Since it's an Electric type, Prankster T-Wave is no longer an issue. It's a total upgrade from the Tornadus set I posted. It's both a defensive wall with recovery and a very powerful sweeper. I honestly think it even deserves to be on the viability rankings, possibly even higher than Ho-Oh. I don't think it needs much explanation other than that.

Yeah Aero was an interesting choice because it's not really powerful, but it has an excellent speed tier. I still have yet to even get up an SD with that set, but if I do, I'm sure it'll be fun.
Yeah, Zapdos outclasses Thundurus on that. It's a matter of how offensive you want it to be that makes you choose between Thundy-T and legendary zappy bird, though either works well.
 
i find the lack of unburden troubling
Rampados(one of the hardest hitters there is disregarding ability) can out speed every thing not above 145 speed if unburden is active
So belly drum version
Rampados @ sitrus berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- play rough
- drain punch
- return
- belly drum
The damage is high with this one: despite lack of stab it should hit fairly hard and it resists flying which is nice

Genaric use version
Rampados @ Normal gem
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- fake out
- Earthquake
- stone edge/rock slide
- Sucker punch/knock off
This thing will hit hard and fast and is not something weak, use fake out to boost your speed and then deal damage with edge quake and suckerpunch to deal with certain priority users(not extreeme speed versions)

Momentum based versions
Rampados @ Dread Plate/sitrus berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fling/acrobatics
- Earthquake/knock off
- stone edge/rockslide
- U-turn

Rampados @ Micle berry/sitrus berry/liechi berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- sucker punch
- knock off/gunk shot
- play rough
- U-turn
these donor leave something to be desired do to lack of priority or stab(if only hitmonlee got u-turn)
 
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InfernapeTropius11

get on my level
i find the lack of unburden troubling
Rampados(one of the hardest hitters there is disregarding ability) can out speed every thing not above 145 speed if unburden is active
So belly drum version
Rampados @ sitrus berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- play rough
- drain punch
- return
- belly drum
The damage is high with this one: despite lack of stab it should hit fairly hard and it resists flying which is nice

Genaric use version
Rampados @ Normal gem
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- fake out
- Earthquake
- stone edge/rock slide
- Sucker punch/knock off
This thing will hit hard and fast and is not something weak, use fake out to boost your speed and then deal damage with edge quake and suckerpunch to deal with certain priority users(not extreeme speed versions)

Momentum based versions
Rampados @ Dread Plate/sitrus berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fling/acrobatics
- Earthquake/knock off
- stone edge/rockslide
- U-turn

Rampados @ Micle berry/sitrus berry/liechi berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- sucker punch
- knock off/gunk shot
- play rough
- U-turn
these donor leave something to be desired do to lack of priority or stab(if only hitmonlee got u-turn)
Terrakion is probably better from Slurpuff because of its already high speed that allows it to outspeed pretty much everything, including Scarfers as well as STAB Drain Punch. U-Turn is also bad on Unburden Pokemon, their niche is to get double speed and hopefully sweep, not lose their Unburden boost by switching out. The last three seem pretty good if you replace U-Turn with a coverage move/sub though.
 
A defensive core that has been serving me well, with both sets being ripped straight from the stall sets database:


Masquerain (Suicune) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Roost
- Defog / Quiver Dance
- Whirlwind


Slowking (Goodra) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Dragon Tail
- Ice Beam
- Fire Blast
- Psyshock / Hidden Power Grass / Hidden Power Ground

Intimidate Suicune walls most of the physical metagame and can phaze a lot of what it doesn't, while Goodra is its Special counterpart -- basically, they're both incredibly bulky 'mons with great synergy.

The two slashes are my deviations from the given sets: I've personally struggled to get Suicune in to Defog sometimes, so if I had an open slot on my team for a defogger, I'd run Quiver Dance over it so Suicune could potentially set up on some things. Psyshock is on Goodra to deal with SF Gengar, but I've instead found myself wanting to either hit Primordial Sea users or Desolate Land Heatran, for which HP Grass (not Grass Knot if you want to hit Manaphy for anything) or HP Ground are used.

They do a pretty great job of covering each other's weaknesses. Goodra switches in on any of the Grass- and Electric-type special attacks which are the most reliable ways of taking out Suicune, as well as any attack from Desolate Land Heatran. The pair has difficulty with mixed attackers that hit them neutrally, as well as Xerneas inheritors, which can boost to +2 while avoiding Dragon Tail and plow through both of 'em. Lando-T can also give the pair issues if Suicune ends up switching in on a Swords Dance.


Clefable (Zapdos) @ Leftovers / Pecha Berry
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 244 HP / 252 Def / 12 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Soft-Boiled
- Stealth Rock / Heal Bell / Toxic / Knock Off / Calm Mind / Trick

Pretty simple set, really. Typing lets it check most Lando-Ts and mega Pinsirs while casually (usually) OHKOing both back with boltbeam. Magic Guard lets you ignore Stealth Rocks, which is necessary to reliably switch in on an attack from either. Soft-Boiled is self-explanatory. You can either run Lefties + utility move/CM for a straightforward utility set, or if you need to, Trick+Pecha can take a Poison Heal 'mon out of commission while Magic Guard lets Zapdos not care about its new Toxic Orb. The whole thing is relatively niche, though, so don't use it unless you need a specific birdspam stop with additional utility.
 
So I just played a battle against Chopin Alkaninoff. He uses hyper offence with gothitelle. I used stall.
I'm here to show how broken trapping in general is, and how all forms of ability trapping deserves to get banned, not only Arena trap. Shadow tag also needs to go.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/inheritance-224691823

In our battle it was loss by matchup. He had his Gothitelle with Choice scarf, rest, psyshock and I'd assume thunderbolt. He didn't show me. Through out the match I'm constantly pressured. There's a incident in the start of the match. I'm facing his +2 Mega Medicham with my Unaware Cresselia. I can beat his Mega Medicham, but if he doubles into Gothitelle I'm screwed. He would trick my Cresselia choice scarf and then he could sweep me late game with Mega Medicham, that's a game over scenario. So what do I do? I double into skarmory, as it carries whirlwind and can get rid of Gothitelle giving me another chance. So I do that, he stays in and Crunches me. +1 Crunch does 45% to my Skarmory, leaving me severely weakened. But I also need skarmory, if I don't have it I lose to Landorus-T's brave bird. So I'm panicking again, I don't want to go into Cresselia as that would leave me in the same position as last time. I switch out to Chansey, sacking it (keep in my I needed my Chansey for Heatran). I go into Suicune and I scald him, he switches out to Gothitelle. He tricks me the scarf has I encore him, hoping he would trick my lefites back. Nop, he switches into Mega Medicham. I encore him into Swords dance. I switch out to Skarmory to Defog and he continues to set up. Essentially what he did was he ended up getting to +6 and pressuring me into my Cresselia, he then got defence drops with crunch ect ect. And then in the end he trick the toxic orb from my Hippo and preceded to trick it onto my Cresselia. GAME OVER.

Was there a way for me to win? Yeah, I could predict perfectly for a close to 80 turn battle and then I would probably win, is that expected of anyone? No.

Is there a way around Shadow tag? Other than predicting perfectly? No. I can run shed shell but then he could just outright sweep me without Shadow tag as 3HKOs will become 2HKOs. Again, win by match up.

I can keep throwing statistics around and such. But essentially you can watch that battle, put yourself in my shoes and try to win. Chopin can essentially go on the ladder and every stall team he encounters has to forfeit. I chatted with Eviolite goomy in the chat after the match for a good 10 minutes. And I'd like everyone to read that before commenting. Thank you

Alljokesaside forfeited.

Chopin Alkaninoff won the battle!
Ladder updating...
AllJokesAside's rating: 1449 → 1428
(-21 for losing)
Chopin Alkaninoff's rating: 1422 → 1443
(+21 for winning)
★AllJokesAside: Ugh
Chopin Alkaninoff left.
eviolite goomy: :\
I like donkeys joined.
eviolite goomy: I get it
★AllJokesAside: I really hope you
★AllJokesAside: do
★AllJokesAside: this is the perfect depiction of why shadow tag is uncompedetive
★AllJokesAside: there's nothing I can do
★AllJokesAside: there's no way around it
★AllJokesAside: you lose by match up
I like donkeys: yup
★AllJokesAside: And Chopin knows this
★AllJokesAside: He's still abusing it
★AllJokesAside: I hope you two will help me get it banned
eviolite goomy: well
I like donkeys left.
eviolite goomy: I'd rather face that gothitelle than stall myself
★AllJokesAside: Supporting it would be good enough.
★AllJokesAside: What do you use?
★AllJokesAside: what playstyle
eviolite goomy: bulky offence
★AllJokesAside: exactly
eviolite goomy: I hate facing stall :p
★AllJokesAside: it's easier to handle
★AllJokesAside: since your team isn't as passive
★AllJokesAside: mine truly is
★AllJokesAside: I can't 2HKO him
★AllJokesAside: with anything
★AllJokesAside: looking at his team, I beat him
★AllJokesAside: Easily
★AllJokesAside: without his gothitelle
eviolite goomy: I don't know how to feel about this
★AllJokesAside: Talk to me
★AllJokesAside: why are you on the fence
★AllJokesAside: Its just like
★AllJokesAside: imagine this
★AllJokesAside: you have something so fast
★AllJokesAside: something so powerful
★AllJokesAside: that i can take out ANYTHING on your team
★AllJokesAside: but it wont sweep you
★AllJokesAside: it'll die from recoil after three kills
★AllJokesAside: but it doesn't matter if you
★AllJokesAside: switch
★AllJokesAside: or anything
★AllJokesAside: that's how trapping works against stall
★AllJokesAside: you can put
★AllJokesAside: sitrus berry on your mon
★AllJokesAside: and it will survive
★AllJokesAside: but then you can't use choice scarf
★AllJokesAside: and you're suddenly sweeped by mega lucario
★AllJokesAside: that's how shadow tag works
eviolite goomy: alright, a legit strategy that's super effective against stall teams
★AllJokesAside: yeah
★AllJokesAside: but the point is
eviolite goomy: some strats beat other strats, that's how this game works, right?
★AllJokesAside: you truly can't do anything
★AllJokesAside: but there are ways around it
★AllJokesAside: I've played against all other types of playstyle
★AllJokesAside: stall, ho
★AllJokesAside: lots of wallbreakers
★AllJokesAside: I played it smart, worked around it.
★AllJokesAside: predicted
★AllJokesAside: I won
★AllJokesAside: But I can't do that against shadow tag
★AllJokesAside: it doesn't just beat stall
★AllJokesAside: it's not even a fair chance
★AllJokesAside: there's zero chance of my 3-4 mons countering the rest of his team
Clefable, Clefairy
eviolite goomy: I guess you're right
eviolite goomy: I don't know what it feels like, because I never play pure stall myself
★AllJokesAside: It feels stressful
★AllJokesAside: I can't switch like I want to
★AllJokesAside: I can't bring out my counter
★AllJokesAside: because he might doubl
★AllJokesAside: and trap it
★AllJokesAside: if you see earlier in the game
★AllJokesAside: he had his Medicham in on my Cresselia
★AllJokesAside: it was at +2
★AllJokesAside: While I can handle Mega Medicham with Cresselia
★AllJokesAside: I can't risk staying in
★AllJokesAside: In the chance of him doubling into Gothitelle
★AllJokesAside: I would've lost then
★AllJokesAside: As Cresselia is my best way to handle Mega Medicham
★AllJokesAside: Which is why I ended up forfeiting
★AllJokesAside: When I ended up doing in that senario was switching to Skarmory
★AllJokesAside: Losing 45%
★AllJokesAside: from a +1 Crunch
★AllJokesAside: Now I'm limited again
★AllJokesAside: I can't switch out
★AllJokesAside: I mean, I can't stay in
★AllJokesAside: If I do that he'll CC and I'll die
★AllJokesAside: So I think I went into Suicune
★AllJokesAside: now he doubles
eviolite goomy: I get it
★AllJokesAside: and my suicune is crippled
★AllJokesAside: Good
eviolite goomy: it's all about match up, right?
eviolite goomy: and focusing on match up makes it less competitive
★AllJokesAside: Mhm
★AllJokesAside: But something like
★AllJokesAside: HO doesn't appreciate, what, balance righ?
★AllJokesAside: But HO can still beat balance
★AllJokesAside: I can't beat this
eviolite goomy: exactly
★AllJokesAside: Chopin
★AllJokesAside: Is too good
★AllJokesAside: he's not going to make mistakrs
★AllJokesAside: he's going to play it safe
★AllJokesAside: and he'll win
★AllJokesAside: every single time
eviolite goomy: alright I'd be pretty pissed too if I kept running into the same guy who'd constantly counter my playstyle without too much effort
★AllJokesAside: mhm
★AllJokesAside: You're going to support me then? :) Your word pulls a lot of weigh
★AllJokesAside: t
★AllJokesAside: Has a lot of weight*
eviolite goomy: but I'm still not sure if I'd really bad gothitelle
eviolite goomy: *ban
★AllJokesAside: Ban trapping moves
★AllJokesAside: At least in inheritance
★AllJokesAside: where stall is the dominant playstyle, and is so common
★AllJokesAside: Since chopin will beat every single stall team he meets
★AllJokesAside: without any effort lol...
eviolite goomy: the thing that has me thinking here is why should goth only be banned in inh and not in normal tiers?
★AllJokesAside: Because in OU there's two reasons
★AllJokesAside: Megas are more common
★AllJokesAside: I've seen teams in Inheritance without Megas
★AllJokesAside: As there aren't that many viable ones
★AllJokesAside: And two, OU is overal more offensive
★AllJokesAside: the only metas where Shadow tag isn't banned is Ubers and OU
★AllJokesAside: Because those two metas have such a power creep
★AllJokesAside: You're not trapping a Landorus-T
★AllJokesAside: you're not trapping a Gliscor, or a landorus
★AllJokesAside: All of these mons are so powerful or provide enough utility or momentum
★AllJokesAside: That gothitelle isn't as powerful
★AllJokesAside: It's a more offensive metagame
★AllJokesAside: While in UU and RU, NU ect
eviolite goomy: but now it kind of feels like you're banning goth just because it forces the inh meta to shape up differently from how you want it to be
★AllJokesAside: T
★AllJokesAside: I've been beaten before with this team
★AllJokesAside: Some people used other strategies besides Trapping
★AllJokesAside: had the right wallbreakers
★AllJokesAside: stallbreakers
★AllJokesAside: and they beat me
★AllJokesAside: fair enough, I lose sometimes
★AllJokesAside: but this isn't even giving me a fighting chance
★AllJokesAside: Its also a reward scheme
★AllJokesAside: I'm going to go out on a limb and say I have the best stall team in Inheritance
eviolite goomy: fine with me
★AllJokesAside: I was Number one on the ladder for a couple of days with it
★AllJokesAside: It took me a long time to build
★AllJokesAside: took me a long time to learn how to play stall
★AllJokesAside: as it's a difficult thing to learn
★AllJokesAside: you have to be patient
★AllJokesAside: TL;DR it's harder than it looks
★AllJokesAside: That should be rewarded
★AllJokesAside: It should be rewarded with a high ranking
★AllJokesAside: and a high WR
★AllJokesAside: But I can't prepare for this
★AllJokesAside: I can switch out as many mons I want to o
★AllJokesAside: But it wont change the fact that I'll either lose to shadow tag
★AllJokesAside: or I'll have to centralise to the extent where Medicham just sweeps me regardless
★AllJokesAside: Thoughs?
eviolite goomy: I was going to say that stall might not be as viable then, but never mind I'm biased
eviolite goomy: well
eviolite goomy: I see what you're getting at
★AllJokesAside: It's very viable
★AllJokesAside: i don't lose a lot with this team
★AllJokesAside: Of the 10 loses i've had in total
★AllJokesAside: six of them were to lagging
★AllJokesAside: two to someone outplaying me
★AllJokesAside: two to Chopin
★AllJokesAside: besides Trapping and lagging
★AllJokesAside: I only lose 1:25
eviolite goomy: :|
★AllJokesAside: Alright, I'm writing a post on the forums
★AllJokesAside: I'll use this conversation, all right?
★AllJokesAside: Copy and paste it basically
eviolite goomy: it's fine
★AllJokesAside: Thank you for listing :)
eviolite goomy: ok I agree gothitelle might be a bit cheap
eviolite goomy: but there's no reason for me to personally make an effort to ban it since, I'm not bothered by myself at all
eviolite goomy: *by it
★AllJokesAside: well I can't force you too, but I've used all playstyles and I like to help all of them

If anybody is tried after that read, here is a couple one liners to cheer you up.

You can never lose a homing pigeon - if your homing pigeon doesn't come back, what you've lost is a pigeon.

You don't need a parachute to go skydiving. You need a parachute to go skydiving twice

My friend gave me his Epi-Pen as he was dying.
It seemed very important to him that I have it.

Say what you want about deaf people.

My grandfather has the heart of a lion and a lifetime ban at the zoo.

Working in a mirror factory is something I can totally see myself doing
 
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