Sports Pro Wrestling Discussion Thread

Fastlane was a terribad PPV but I expected it to be.

Daniel Bryan losing to Roman Reigns in a clean match disgusted me. It means that Roman Reigns is better than Daniel Bryan. Everything Daniel has done in the last year just went right out the window. Beating John Cena in a clean match, crowd hijacking the Cena vs Orton segment with "Daniel Bryan" chants, an entire arena screaming for Daniel Bryan throughout the entire PPV of Royal Rumble 2014, and beating every member of evolution at Wrestlemania 30 was all wasted because of Roman Reigns.

This was worse than Sting stealing the spot on the card of a hard working wrestler at Wrestlemania. This is worse than Brock Lesnar ending Undertaker's undefeated streak at Wrestlemania. Hell, this is even worse than the Rock stealing CM Punk's belt at Royal Rumble 2013.
 

Camden

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They never wanted Bryan to be the "guy". They still don't want him being the guy. Creative still believes that Roman Reigns is gonna be the next big thing, and they need to build him up as best they can to make him look believable. Personally I think he's the next Lex Luger. He'll have his time in the spotlight, and he'll probably be remember as being pretty cool, but overall his competition will look better and that's what people are gonna remember. Luger had to deal with being outshined by Bret Hart, and Reigns is gonna have to deal with Bryan outshining him.
 
They never wanted Bryan to be the "guy". They still don't want him being the guy. Creative still believes that Roman Reigns is gonna be the next big thing, and they need to build him up as best they can to make him look believable. Personally I think he's the next Lex Luger. He'll have his time in the spotlight, and he'll probably be remember as being pretty cool, but overall his competition will look better and that's what people are gonna remember. Luger had to deal with being outshined by Bret Hart, and Reigns is gonna have to deal with Bryan outshining him.

Never mind Bryan,just wait until the NXT 5 come up.Poor old Roman's gonna get buried.
 

Lee

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I kinda liked Lex Luger...this guy, however, is a talentless tool that is being force-fed to us. I'm not sure how somebody so uncharismatic and unconvincing can actually be related to the Rock.

That said, I'm kinda happy they're doing this because it is constantly fascinating to see the reactions of the crowds; it's like the WWE crowds have grown into sentient beings with opinions and thoughts rather than some sort of murmuring mass organism. Creative are now being held responsible for their actions and they know that a bad call could be a PR disaster the likes of which the business has never seen. It seems the writing is on the wall for Reigns to beat Brock at 'Mania but can they pull it off in such a way that doesn't incite an already hostile crowd?
 
I kinda liked Lex Luger...this guy, however, is a talentless tool that is being force-fed to us. I'm not sure how somebody so uncharismatic and unconvincing can actually be related to the Rock.

That said, I'm kinda happy they're doing this because it is constantly fascinating to see the reactions of the crowds; it's like the WWE crowds have grown into sentient beings with opinions and thoughts rather than some sort of murmuring mass organism. Creative are now being held responsible for their actions and they know that a bad call could be a PR disaster the likes of which the business has never seen. It seems the writing is on the wall for Reigns to beat Brock at 'Mania but can they pull it off in such a way that doesn't incite an already hostile crowd?

SPOILER: It won't lol the only way they can save Mania is to let Seth cash in @ Mania.
 

Camden

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When was the last time Wrestlemania ended with the heel being victorious in the main event? I think it was Wrestlemania 17 if I'm not mistaken.

Wait, I forgot about the Miz, although that was due to the Rock, so I'm not sure if that counts.
 

Camden

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So I think it's totally unfair that Bray had to put on one of his typical calm promos after Heyman put on what was arguably one of the greatest promos of the past 10 years. Holy crap that man can tell a story. I had legit chills and now I really wanna see Brock win at Mania just to see the fallout.

Also, I'm now truly convinced that we're heading into a Cena heel turn. We all know that Cena has a tendency to do some assholish acts, but he's been especially greasy with this feud, and if any of you saw the face he made last night, that is NOT the expression a face makes. Orton actually looks and sounds more like a face at this point.
 
Yeah. Nobody can touch Paul Heyman on the mic at this point. Not even Punk. I thought his promo last week was gold but I didn't think he would top it the week after. Btw, I noticed that the majority of Roman Reigns' promos are pre recorded backstage. They can't give him a live mic or it won't make him look strong.


I don't think Cena is going for the heel turn unless Roman Reigns is able to put butts to seats and outsell Cena in t shirts.

I hope Orton retires.
 

Camden

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I honestly feel like WWE is trying their damned hardest to phase out Cena. Yeah, he's still the biggest moneymaker in the company, but they can't ride on that forever. The man's already 37 (38 next month) and his body is going to catch up to him soon. Plus, with the great talent the company has, it's not hard to back the younger talent and have some balance for one.

Ah who am I kidding, they're just gonna super-push Reigns until he's 40.
 

Lee

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Wait, are you claiming 37 is old for a wrestler? Dolph Ziggler, Bad News Barret and Tyson Kidd are 35 in the summer and each could be considered the future of the company. Daniel Bryan and Ryback are 33 and have their best years ahead of them. Shawn Michaels was the best performer in the company well into his late 40's and Kurt Angle is still perhaps the best in TNA at 46. 37 is honestly pretty young in wrestling terms and Cena is in fantastic shape plus has a relatively low intensity, low-risk wrestling style (certainly when compared to Michaels and Angle for whom moonsaults from the top of steel cages are just another day at the office). They've got at least another decade out of him if they want it.
 
Alright, since people are talking about Cena, let me post my thoughts on him.


John Cena has been the face of WWE for a while now, though I think it's clear to everyone that it isn't going to stay like that for too long. Once Roman Reigns develops mic skills, Cena is going to turn into next-best. But right now, he is still their face, earning them the most money and doing most of the out of the ring charity to promote WWE. And of course, whatever is popular, people are just going to hate on it. In this case, Cena is arguably the most popular wrestler in WWE history, behind only Hogan even if he isn't #1. So of course, he is going to be hated. Although it wasn't like this ever since he showed his face. Back in the early 2000's, he had a more gangster/rapper gimmick, often wearing chains and jerseys to the ring, heck, he even had a rap song he sung and published as his theme song. The 'Doctor of Thuganomics' as was his nickname back then was pretty liked, maybe because it appealed back in the day when rap and being gangsta was a fad, or maybe because he was a good wrestler. But either way, he started out as a mid-carder, but his first iconic moment imo was at WM20 I believe when he hit the FU, or AA for you PG fans, on Big Show to win the United States Championship. This was similar to the Hulk Hogan bodyslamming Andre The Giant moment at Wrestlemania 3, appealing to both fans of WWF back when that happened, and newer fans because back then, the underdog gimmick was still very much liked. This was the start of Cena's climb to becoming the face of WWE, though we didn't know that then. Soon, he got into the World Heavyweight Championship run, thus beginning a feud with JBL. He won this championship, thus being a main event wrestler, and he has never dropped from that position unless he was injured.

Yeah, I'm not going to list his entire Wiki page here, so let me get to the point. John Cena currently holds the record for most WWE Championship reigns, and is 4th in combined days in holding the belt. His World Heavyweight Championship runs were not as impressive, but still nothing look away from. Overall, he was given a lot in WWE, and many argue he doesn't deserve it, as he isn't a good wrestler, and was just in WWE for entertaining the kiddies.
What do I think.


John Cena is a good wrestler.
Yes, I find Cena to be a good wrestler who is the perfect face for a kid-friendly organization like WWE, who can still entertain older fans. Before you shit on me or whatever, let me say this. Cena isn't my favorite wrestler, nor am I just a kid who likes the Superman character, no. I am 15 years old, hardly the age of a kid, and I have been watching wrestling for years, about 10 years ago I started watching. My memory is a bit foggy about my thoughts of wrestling back in the day, so I can't say what I thought of Cena back then. All I remember is that I loved Rey Mysterio, and even now I still shed a tear from when he was the underdog and won his first World Heavyweight Championship from Orton and Angle at WM 22-23. But as I grew on, I think my parents bought me a John Cena poster because I liked WWE, and I didn't really oppose. Soon, we got rid of that poster for whatever reason, and not long after that, I started to dislike Cena, since I was at the age to follow the cool kids and hate on whatever was popular. But a few years after that, I went to neutral on my thoughts about Cena, just bashing him on the outside since my little sister was a diehard fan of his and still is.

But now, I can say I find Cena to be entertaining and what a wrestler should strive to be. A fit wrestler who doesn't get injured much, can put on a good show, does tons of charity work, and very charismatic on the mic. Some of his recent matches have gotten me to the edge of my seat, and he can put on a promo whenever he needs to. He doesn't deserve all the hate he gets, and I hope he continues this streak of being good in the ring, as well as keep being great as ever outside of it.
 

Camden

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Wait, are you claiming 37 is old for a wrestler? Dolph Ziggler, Bad News Barret and Tyson Kidd are 35 in the summer and each could be considered the future of the company. Daniel Bryan and Ryback are 33 and have their best years ahead of them. Shawn Michaels was the best performer in the company well into his late 40's and Kurt Angle is still perhaps the best in TNA at 46. 37 is honestly pretty young in wrestling terms and Cena is in fantastic shape plus has a relatively low intensity, low-risk wrestling style (certainly when compared to Michaels and Angle for whom moonsaults from the top of steel cages are just another day at the office). They've got at least another decade out of him if they want it.
I'm not claiming 37/38 is old, but it's certain not young. Cena's in that middle phase where he's going to start transitioning into being an "older guys that wrestles". Once his age really starts to show, they're going to have no choice but to push him aside for the younger crowd. I'd give at least 3-4 years before we get that though.

Also, I'm not sure if Angle is the best example for your case. It's honestly a miracle that his neck is even still attached to his head. I wouldn't be surprised if he took a lariat wrong one day and his head just flies off. lol

We'll see what happens though.


Alright, since people are talking about Cena, let me post my thoughts on him.


John Cena has been the face of WWE for a while now, though I think it's clear to everyone that it isn't going to stay like that for too long. Once Roman Reigns develops mic skills, Cena is going to turn into next-best. But right now, he is still their face, earning them the most money and doing most of the out of the ring charity to promote WWE. And of course, whatever is popular, people are just going to hate on it. In this case, Cena is arguably the most popular wrestler in WWE history, behind only Hogan even if he isn't #1. So of course, he is going to be hated. Although it wasn't like this ever since he showed his face. Back in the early 2000's, he had a more gangster/rapper gimmick, often wearing chains and jerseys to the ring, heck, he even had a rap song he sung and published as his theme song. The 'Doctor of Thuganomics' as was his nickname back then was pretty liked, maybe because it appealed back in the day when rap and being gangsta was a fad, or maybe because he was a good wrestler. But either way, he started out as a mid-carder, but his first iconic moment imo was at WM20 I believe when he hit the FU, or AA for you PG fans, on Big Show to win the United States Championship. This was similar to the Hulk Hogan bodyslamming Andre The Giant moment at Wrestlemania 3, appealing to both fans of WWF back when that happened, and newer fans because back then, the underdog gimmick was still very much liked. This was the start of Cena's climb to becoming the face of WWE, though we didn't know that then. Soon, he got into the World Heavyweight Championship run, thus beginning a feud with JBL. He won this championship, thus being a main event wrestler, and he has never dropped from that position unless he was injured.

Yeah, I'm not going to list his entire Wiki page here, so let me get to the point. John Cena currently holds the record for most WWE Championship reigns, and is 4th in combined days in holding the belt. His World Heavyweight Championship runs were not as impressive, but still nothing look away from. Overall, he was given a lot in WWE, and many argue he doesn't deserve it, as he isn't a good wrestler, and was just in WWE for entertaining the kiddies.
What do I think.


John Cena is a good wrestler.
Yes, I find Cena to be a good wrestler who is the perfect face for a kid-friendly organization like WWE, who can still entertain older fans. Before you shit on me or whatever, let me say this. Cena isn't my favorite wrestler, nor am I just a kid who likes the Superman character, no. I am 15 years old, hardly the age of a kid, and I have been watching wrestling for years, about 10 years ago I started watching. My memory is a bit foggy about my thoughts of wrestling back in the day, so I can't say what I thought of Cena back then. All I remember is that I loved Rey Mysterio, and even now I still shed a tear from when he was the underdog and won his first World Heavyweight Championship from Orton and Angle at WM 22-23. But as I grew on, I think my parents bought me a John Cena poster because I liked WWE, and I didn't really oppose. Soon, we got rid of that poster for whatever reason, and not long after that, I started to dislike Cena, since I was at the age to follow the cool kids and hate on whatever was popular. But a few years after that, I went to neutral on my thoughts about Cena, just bashing him on the outside since my little sister was a diehard fan of his and still is.

But now, I can say I find Cena to be entertaining and what a wrestler should strive to be. A fit wrestler who doesn't get injured much, can put on a good show, does tons of charity work, and very charismatic on the mic. Some of his recent matches have gotten me to the edge of my seat, and he can put on a promo whenever he needs to. He doesn't deserve all the hate he gets, and I hope he continues this streak of being good in the ring, as well as keep being great as ever outside of it.
The thing I've always liked about Cena is that he's very much a chameleon wrestler, meaning he'll adapt to who he's in the ring with to play off their strong points, while still maintaining his own style. There are very few wrestlers in the WWE that properly do this so I can give him props for that. However, his striking is still abysmal, and he doesn't take finishers as well as he should. He's definitely not a shitty wrestler though. On a brighter note, he's finally applying the STF properly. I guess he took SCSA's advice.
 
My question is: How long can WWE ride on Cena's current gimmick?

He has basically just changed colors over the years, performing the same way he always has, but more kid-friendly. This is typical WWE (same stuff, kid friendly, profit, repeat); however, Cena, at least in my opinion, should look to find a new aspect to his persona. Whether it be a redefined move-pool, a more unique [and in my opinion, preferably more edgy and less filtered to meet WWE's program content settings (TV PG)] mic style, or even an entirely new gimmick that would appeal to not only just the younglings, but also the older WWE viewers [the ones who tend to chant "Cena Sucks!" and often complain that WWE is too PG].

Just my thoughts, but I really would love to see a new Cena, regardless of to what extent "new" is taken to.
 
Wrestlemania thoughts

1) Fatal Four tag team match was pretty good.
2) I was disappointed with the Battle Royal outcome but I don't even care about that match.
3) WWE is using Daniel Bryan to legitimize the Intercontinental Championship which I am not a fan of. I still think he should be in the main event.
4) Seth should have won.
5) LOL the Sting vs Triple H match was retarded.
6) Divas match was okay.
7) I guess Cena winning elevates the title but Rusev winning clean would have done so too. I don't mind Cena winning though.
8) The Taker match decent but nothing special.
9) WWE did the only thing they could to save the match. They just had a beat down match with SETH METAL ROLLINS CASHING IN!!! Okay match but GREAT ENDING!
 
A pretty good Mania, I thought.

Didn't really watch the pre-show, so I won't talk about that much. Why they feel the need to give Big Show another win over anyone else who could use a win is beyond me. Guess Paul Wight needs this win to cement himself as a main event superstar, haha.

Ladder match was hectic as one would expect. Pretty exciting. Going into it, I expected Bryan, or Ziggler, to win as they were probably going to have Cena beat Rusev, too, to help give those titles meaning. I doubt that it will do too much for them, but I've been wrong before. Good match, though. Orton Rollins was a typical match between the two, solid stuff. Finish was pretty hyphy, probably the best RKO Randy has done in a while / ever. The Sting Hunter match...

[20:07:05] <&Funkasaurus> how overbooked will this be
[20:07:19] <~Ciele> probably a little
[20:07:25] <~Ciele> they're not exactly in their prime

Certainly so. I didn't really enjoy this as a wrestling match or a 'mark out' fest, either. It was painfully slow, ofc given the performers involved, and the DX vs NWO thing really didn't make sense to me. Why would Nash turn against Hunter? Why would Hogan be in the "WCW" corner when he's been promoting the WWE Network every time he's on TV? But, I digress. Hunter winning does nothing for him. Clearly the better choice for a winner.

I had to go to the bathroom during the concert, so I did. Then there was a divas match that I wasn't really interested in. It was okay, given the participants involved. Cena Rusev. Going into this, like I said, I figured Cena was winning this, but I was hoping for a Rusev upset. Didn't happen. Pretty good match between the two. (Thought Rusev went down too easily, just one AA after the Lana bump, really?) Let's see what they do with Cena as champ.

The Rock Rousey stuff was pretty cool. Maybe that'll happen next year at Mania or smth.

Taker Wyatt. Everyone had low expectations for this match. The face of darkness match, I guess this is the new "face of the WWE match" kek, was alright. I felt like Taker should have lost, going on a short losing streak. Plus, Bray is going to be on TV tomorrow, unlike Undertaker. Oh well. This match didn't do much for either anyways.

I thought the main event was really good. Probably the best booked match tonight. I was scared that there was a chance that Reigns would walk out with the title despite this being his third singles match on PPV. Lesnar was Lesnar this match, just suplexing a billion times, basically killing Reigns. They booked Reigns strong here. Kicking out of a thousand suplexes and three F-5s. I got worried when Reigns was looking like he was going to win, until Rollins came out. Thought this turned a pretty damn good match into a great one. Really strong booking on WWE's part, ending the show, in my opinion, the right way. Can't wait for Raw tomorrow.

 

Camden

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So I sat around my buddy's TV with nine others and had a great time cracking jokes and watching some good ol' wrestling. I love Wrestlemania, and this was an exciting day for me because I had missed out on last year's Mania party. Here are my thoughts:

The tag match was quite honestly a clusterfuck, but what can you honestly expect? I couldn't even tell who was legal for most of the match. It was still super fucking fun to watch with great spots all over the place. Plus, Kidd and Cesaro retaining is the best option because they are such an incredibly talented team. ***

The Battle Royale mostly fell flat for me because there were a lot of people standing around doing nothing for a while and that always pisses me off. I was also disappointed that Itami's role was very diminished. I felt as though he should have made his mark in a better way, considering his history. The spot where Cesaro failed to eliminate Big Show was really nice continuity. Seeing Mizdow finally getting some form of revenge on Miz was heartwarming, and the effort he put against Big Show was valiant. I personally think he portrayed it perfectly because he didn't pull some superman shit like Cena or Cesaro and just pick him up and throw him away, but he didn't get completely crushed either. He actually used some cunning and put up a decent fight. With all that in mind, I'm okay with Big Show winning because he's the fucking Big Show, and you can only dance around the fantasy of David always winning against Goliath for so long. Sometimes the big heavy guy has to win the battle royale. It happens. Not like the match was going to help elevate Sandow's carrier anyway. Remember when he was the WHC MITB briefcase holder? Look how that turned out. **1/4

I had really high hopes for the ladder match, I really did. Based on the last few ladder/TLC matches this company has put on I was willing to believe it would be decent (Hell, even WeeLC was good). I overall thought the match was okay at best. Everyone save R-Truth had some sort of super cool spot but I felt the overall pace of the match was awkward. Barrett cleaning up house with the Bull Hammer was fucking wicked and made me think for a second he would win. I really don't have much to say on this match, though. I'm happy D-Bry won. He's now a Triple Crown champ! ***1/4

Orton/Rollins was another match I had high hopes for, and it wasn't the 5-star classic I was hoping for (No Misawa, no Tokyo Dome, no dice BROTHER), but it was still a fun match. It started off with a slow methodical pace but then built up as the match went on. Orton nearly hit the punt and Rollins almost hit the Phoenix Splash. J&J even had their little spots, too. But then holy fucking shit that curbstomp countered into an RKO....oh shit. ***1/2

I forgot the descriptions for the other matches but I gave Triple H/Sting **, the Divas matches **1/2, Cena/Rusev a ***1/4, Taker/Wyatt a **1/4, and the main event a ***1/2.

Included below are Dave Meltzer's official ratings for each match from WM31 and Supercard of Honor:


Wrestlemania 31
>Tyson Kidd & Cesaro vs. The New Day (Kofi Kingston & Big E) vs. Los Matadores (Diego & Fernando) vs. The Usos (Jimmy & Jey Uso) (WWE Tag Team Championship Match): ***1/2
>Andre The Giant Memorial Battle Royal: ***1/4
>Daniel Bryan vs. Bad News Barrett vs. Dolph Ziggler vs. Dean Ambrose vs. Luke Harper vs. Stardust (Intercontinental Championship Ladder Match): ****1/4
>Randy Orton vs. Seth Rollins: ****
>Triple H vs. Sting (No Holds Barred Match): **1/2
>AJ Lee & Paige vs. The Bella Twins (Nikki Bella & Brie Bella): **1/2
>John Cena vs. Rusev (United States Championship Match): ***1/2
>The Undertaker vs. Bray Wyatt: **3/4
>Seth Rollins vs. Brock Lesnar vs. Roman Reigns (WWE Championship Match): ****1/2
ROH Supercard of Honor
>Mark Briscoe vs. ACH: ***1/2
>Michael Elgin vs. Frankie Kazarian: ***1/4
>Matt Sydal vs. Andrew Everett vs. Moose vs. Cedric Alexander vs. Tommaso Ciampa vs. Caprice Coleman: ****
>BJ Whitmer vs. Jimmy Jacobs: **1/2
>Roderick Strong vs. Christopher Daniels: ***3/4
>reDRagon (Kyle O'Reilly & Bobby Fish) vs. The Kingdom (Matt Taven & Michael Bennett) (ROH Tag Team Championship Match): ***3/4
>Jay Lethal vs. Jushin Liger (ROH TV Championship Match): ***1/2
>Jay Briscoe vs. Samoa Joe (ROH World Championship Match): ***1/2


I have yet to actually watch Supercard so I can't say much there, but I generally disagree with his WM31 ratings. The only rating I can really agree with is the Divas match.​
 
RAW last night was good imo, it was nice to see Neville (the man that gravity forgot) v. Dolph Ziggler (the man WWE Creative forgot).
 
I know it's probably just a joke, but WWE Creative hasn't forgotten about Ziggler, he is in what seems to be in the middle of an awesome feud.


But Sheamus being heel is cool, his new look is sick imo, but I miss his old theme :[
 
I know it's probably just a joke, but WWE Creative hasn't forgotten about Ziggler, he is in what seems to be in the middle of an awesome feud.


But Sheamus being heel is cool, his new look is sick imo, but I miss his old theme :[
Dolph Ziggler legitimately gets pretty good cheers from both adults and kids, it isn't just the "IWC" anymore that pops for the "Internet darlings". I'm not really optimistic of a feud with Sheamus as awesome after what crushed my own (and many others) hopes of Ziggler ever rising above upper midcarder status after he was amounted to nothing post-Survivor Series 2014. At most I can say is that hope Ziggler and Sheamus will give us a few memorable matches, which I'm sure they will.
 

Camden

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I really don't see Ziggler going anywhere beyond the mid-card for the remainder of his career simply because creative doesn't want him to. Any time they give him some sort of momentum they just snatch it right back from him and hand it off to some other guy. It doesn't matter how popular he is, they don't want him to get too big, because it'll detract from their other talent.
 
I agree and the same thing can be said for Cesaro. Cesaro was so hot in early 2014 and his popularity was rising so rapidly until they gave up on him after Wrestlemania 30 because Vince didn't think he was connecting with the audience. After reading comments from many forums, I have found ZERO people who agrees with Vince.
 

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