PU Analyses Discussion Thread

[Magnemite]

Things that currently do not have analyses but should (I can provide reasoning for any of these if needed):

Life Orb 4 attacks Simipour
Grumpig
Scrappy Stoutland
Simisage
Dwebble
Ninjask
Metang
Wigglytuff
Electabuzz

 

[Anty]

Regarding the Whirlipede vs Venipede thingy:
Firstly, the Whrilipede EVs onsite are very ineffective, which i blame myself for as we wanted less evs in hp for better endeavor'ing, so we went with 252 defense rather than hp which in fact is worse... Calcs:
252+ Atk Golem Rock Blast (3 hits) vs. 244 HP / 12 Def Whirlipede: 252-306 (89.3 - 108.5%) -- approx. 25% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Armaldo Rock Blast (3 hits) vs. 244 HP / 12 Def Whirlipede: 258-312 (91.4 - 110.6%) -- approx. 62.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak Bonemerang (2 hits) vs. 244 HP / 12 Def Whirlipede: 258-306 (91.4 - 108.5%) -- approx. 50% chance to OHKO
While max defense:
252+ Atk Golem Rock Blast (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Whirlipede: 204-252 (92.3 - 114%) -- approx. 81.3% chance to OHKO
And max HP:
252+ Atk Golem Rock Blast (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Whirlipede: 258-312 (90.8 - 109.8%) -- approx. 62.5% chance to OHKO

So a set of 244 HP / 12 Def / 252 Speed should be used (note: max speed is required to beat haunter at +1)


Concerning venipede; at +1 it veni 351 speed while whirlipede only hits 318. Taken from mag's speed tiers, these are the important pokes veni outspeeds at +1:
350 / Jumpluff, Raichu / 110 / +Spe / 252 / 0 Sleep, Encore
339 / Kadabra, / 105 / +Spe / 252 / 0 Encore
331 / Simipour, Simisage, Simisear / 101 / +Spe / 252 / 0 Taunt
328 / Dodrio / 100 / +Spe / 252 / 0 Taunt
322 / Frogadier / 97 / +Spe / 252 / 0 Taunt

These (particularly jumpluff and Raichu) are very important benchmarks so it is clear that venipede has a niche, however is this more important than being able to live golem's 2 hit rock blast and 3 hits most of the time? IMO Yes, as both are situational, however there are more pokes venipede beats and it beats them more reliably (ofc whirlipede can be used if the team is golem weak so likes 1 hazard then endeavor)

IMO:

• Since they are very similar pokes, we can work off the whirlipede analysis and change specific bits (IE copy/paste, change whil to veni and change things such as taunt simipour in c&c)

my imanalt skills of finding a better spread have gone to waste ;_;

 

[g]

Lol make a venipede analysis yn

Anyway anty make the edit via scms or send me a pastebin of the modified version

 

[Anty]

Lol make a venipede analysis yn

Anyway anty make the edit via scms or send me a pastebin of the modified version

http://pastebin.com/zSMHUUVR

That should be good. Its just raizas whirlipede but with small changes, and the only large change (oo) i got kingler (gp team) to looks over so s/o's to him

 

[g]

Ask WDM/dell/mont

 

[Magnemite]

The reason for min HP is so that your Endeavors do more damage when you're not at your sash, it's not supposed to be bulkier than another spread.

 

[Anty]

The reason for min HP is so that your Endeavors do more damage when you're not at your sash, it's not supposed to be bulkier than another spread.

I see what you mean but it is also useful to have a better chance of living multi hit moves so you get 2 hazards rather than one, and the extra bulk is only going I leave you with a bit more hp than if it bought you down to your sash. Also if that was the case why not just run 0 bulk?

 

[Pentak the Beast]

For all people wanting a good moveset for a good pokemon on pu use this for Carracosta:
Ability: Sturdy
Item: Weakness Policy
Moves: Aqua Tail, Aqua Jet, Stone Edge, Crunch
It even works in OU!!!

 

[TONE]

Will Snow Warning Aurorus be added to the original analysis, or will that have its own analysis?

edit: Same thing for Servine. I know someone reserved it, but they didn't start the analysis yet.

 

[WhiteDMist]

Snow Warning will simply be added to the current analysis, Snobalt can you take care of that?

Servine doesn't need anything added on to it, as the reserver hasn't posted anything yet? And ofc anyone can reserve it since the person has not posted, so they are within their rights to ask me for the skeleton.

 

[Empress]

Snow Warning will simply be added to the current analysis, Snobalt can you take care of that?

Servine doesn't need anything added on to it, as the reserver hasn't posted anything yet? And ofc anyone can reserve it since the person has not posted, so they are within their rights to ask me for the skeleton.

Will get cracking on that ASAP.
Nevermind that.

 

[Grim]

I just noticed SpD Zweilous is not in the analysis. It's by far the best set for Zweilous, so can I do it?

 

[WhiteDMist]

I just noticed SpD Zweilous is not in the analysis. It's by far the best set for Zweilous, so can I do it?

go for it

 

[TheFinderDX]

So I think I've found a viable set for Emolga. I'd love to hear thoughts.

Set Title: NuzzBall
EVs: 4 HP, 252 SpA, 252 Spe
Nature: Timid
Ability: Motor Drive
Item: Assault Vest
Moves: Nuzzle, Electro Ball, Air Slash, Hidden Power Ice/Charge Beam/Agility/Hidden Power Ground

You want to take advantage of Emolga's speed vs. the opposing poke. Nuzzle to paralyze and Electro Ball for max damage + STAB. Ideally, you can Baton Pass a speed boost of some kind (Rock Polish, Agility, etc.). You use Air Slash for opposing grass types, and HP Ice for Ground/Rock types. Assault Vest gives it a bit more staying power, though it's still very weak to physical attacks (esp. rock moves). You could swap out HP Ice for Charge Beam to boost SpA, Agility if you can't pass on speed (though you can't use an Assault Vest), or HP Ground to prevent getting stalled by other electric types. EVs maxed for damage and speed, with the 4 HP giving as much bulk as you can spare. It's still a glass cannon, but with proper support (passed speed, removal of Stealth Rock), it *could* sweep a team or at least take down a few pokes.

 

[Anty]

So I think I've found a viable set for Emolga. I'd love to hear thoughts.

Set Title: NuzzBall
EVs: 4 HP, 252 SpA, 252 Spe
Nature: Timid
Ability: Motor Drive
Item: Assault Vest
Moves: Nuzzle, Electro Ball, Air Slash, Hidden Power Ice/Charge Beam/Agility/Hidden Power Ground

You want to take advantage of Emolga's speed vs. the opposing poke. Nuzzle to paralyze and Electro Ball for max damage + STAB. Ideally, you can Baton Pass a speed boost of some kind (Rock Polish, Agility, etc.). You use Air Slash for opposing grass types, and HP Ice for Ground/Rock types. Assault Vest gives it a bit more staying power, though it's still very weak to physical attacks (esp. rock moves). You could swap out HP Ice for Charge Beam to boost SpA, Agility if you can't pass on speed (though you can't use an Assault Vest), or HP Ground to prevent getting stalled by other electric types. EVs maxed for damage and speed, with the 4 HP giving as much bulk as you can spare. It's still a glass cannon, but with proper support (passed speed, removal of Stealth Rock), it *could* sweep a team or at least take down a few pokes.

Welcome to PU.
Sadly this set doesnt do anything that other electric types (mainly raichu/zebstrika cannot do), as the only thing emolga has over them a flying STAB which only hits grass types that the main electric types hit with coverage (hidden power ice and overheat). Assault vest is also a bad item on emolga as it would need a boosting item to do any damage and emolgas special defense is still incredibly low. Nuzzle and electroball is very unreliable as the main switch ins to emolga would be ground types like piloswine, and thunderbolt is a lot more reliable.

Overall emolga is just outclassed by raichu and zebstrika, who have more speed, higher power, and much better coverage meaning they are much harder to switch into.

 

[TheFinderDX]

Welcome to PU.
Sadly this set doesnt do anything that other electric types (mainly raichu/zebstrika cannot do), as the only thing emolga has over them a flying STAB which only hits grass types that the main electric types hit with coverage (hidden power ice and overheat). Assault vest is also a bad item on emolga as it would need a boosting item to do any damage and emolgas special defense is still incredibly low. Nuzzle and electroball is very unreliable as the main switch ins to emolga would be ground types like piloswine, and thunderbolt is a lot more reliable.

Overall emolga is just outclassed by raichu and zebstrika, who have more speed, higher power, and much better coverage meaning they are much harder to switch into.

I hear you. Bummer. New to the metagame, so I thought I'd try something new. Oh well. Thanks for the analysis.

 

[Anty]

Scarf raichu should get a set. It is better in this meta than when i wrote the analysis. The main reason to use it is outspeeding p much the entire metagame including jolly +2 barbaracle, sand rush stoutland, rain dance poli, etc which iirc raichu is the only decent scarf that can outspeed the first two (well other than rapidash which isnt good enough for a set). It may be a bit weak but your mostly spamming volt switch and its coverage beats most ground types (other than stunfisk x_x)

 

[g]

Spdef pelipper should probably get a BIG analysis mention if not even a set since it checks completely different pokemon better

 

[MZ]

I think occa berry deserves a main slash on RP torterra's moveset, it basically trades setting up on non choiced Raichu, Simipour and Poliwrath for Zebstrika, Ninetales, Rapidash, Simisear and Heatmor which are about as relevant if not more imo

 

[Anty]

I think occa berry deserves a main slash on RP torterra's moveset, it basically trades setting up on non choiced Raichu, Simipour and Poliwrath for Zebstrika, Ninetales, Rapidash, Simisear and Heatmor which are about as relevant if not more imo

Yache was less for setting up but more for not getting RKd (esp important in the sneasel meta):
252 SpA Raichu Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Yache Berry Torterra: 118-140 (35.6 - 42.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Piloswine Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Yache Berry Torterra: 116-138 (35 - 41.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Simipour Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Yache Berry Torterra: 186-220 (56.1 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I can see how it is less important but i dont really like occa berry:
252 SpA Life Orb Ninetales Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Occa Berry Torterra: 196-231 (59.2 - 69.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Rapidash Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Occa Berry Torterra: 204-242 (61.6 - 73.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
etc (i wouldnt be surprised if heatmor ohko'd)

Then:
252+ Atk Pawniard Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Torterra: 103-123 (31.1 - 37.1%) -- 77.8% chance to 3HKO

Also torterra doesnt exactly need help in setting up as it is already hella bulk and has an easy time forcing pokes out due to its good bulk and typing, while setting up on these is too much for it (especcially when running wood hammer). Priority is quite common in the metagame so most set up sweepers try and take as little damage as possible while setting up, which is a pretty solid niche for torterra because of its high defenses.

I can see yache being less important (lo has always been better hence the first slash) and their probably should be an item which isnt lo which is probably either best kept yache or even lefties/earth plate

 

[ManOfMany]

I was actually using occa berry torterra too, but not on the rock polish set but the tank set. It was really helpful there as it allowed it to switch into Zebra, and avoid being revenge-killed by Ninetales and Rapidash while removing them.

It seems like it would work great for RP torterra too because it doesn't really need life orb. I mean, it doesn't hit very hard without life orb but it does not need to because of its fantastic coverage. Wood hammer nails simipour, earthquake beats ninetales, stone edge beats dodrio, etc. Ofc it won't do shit vs bulky grasses but life orb won't help it there anyway.

 

[MZ]

Whirlipede's analysis needs like one sentence explaining the difference between whirl and venipede. Apparently there's some debate over max hp vs defense or something too? Also we need to revamp Huntail and maybe give scarf Simipour (and maybe rapidash) sets. This is approved by anty.

Edit: Spdef Pelipper and chlorophyll on Jumpluff too but apparently qc people are talking about this stuff already anyway

 

[TONE]

There should also be a note of some kind regarding Grumpig as it is illegal to have Seismic Toss and Whirlwind on the same set.

 

[g]

Whirlipede's analysis needs like one sentence explaining the difference between whirl and venipede. Apparently there's some debate over max hp vs defense or something too? Also we need to revamp Huntail and maybe give scarf Simipour (and maybe rapidash) sets. This is approved by anty.

Edit: Spdef Pelipper and chlorophyll on Jumpluff too but apparently qc people are talking about this stuff already anyway

There should also be a note of some kind regarding Grumpig as it is illegal to have Seismic Toss and Whirlwind on the same set.

Doing these as I post

 

[Dundies]

hey do you think i could revamp chatot's analysis and add the choice specs and choice scarf sets? the one right now has the NP chatter set only