Victim of the Week: OM Edition [2v2 Doubles - Infernape & Mega Alakazam]

Pikachuun

the entire waruda machine
Nominating Poison Heal Cresselia as a COUNTER.


Cresselia @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Spore/Toxic
- Synthesis
- Seismic Toss
- Protect/Substitute/Leech Seed/Toxic

Walls every move Azelf has, and can even take knock off:

With Item:
252 Atk Life Orb Protean Azelf Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 257-304 (57.8 - 68.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
After poison heal it does a maximum of 56%.
Without Item:
252 Atk Life Orb Protean Azelf Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 174-205 (39.1 - 46.1%) -- 76.6% chance to 3HKO after Poison Heal

If you run protect you can switch into Azelf as it uses knock off and live to tell the tale (unless crit hax)

Cresselia is not just an Azelf counter but also checks/counters a whole variety of offensive and defensive threats alike courtesy of poison heal :3
Just letting you know that Cresselia does not counter all Azelf sets unless it runs Protect.
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Azelf Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Cresselia: 265-312 (59.6 - 70.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal [Same calc with Shadow Ball which Kecleon gets, which also makes it immune to SToss meaning PP stall is your only option]
There's also Nasty Plot existing [kekleon] and making Cress set-up fodder as a result, but nobody's running that yet, however it still walls most Azelf sets so I'll give you that much
 
I'm new to this OM (and to pretty much every OM), so I don't know if the set below is outclassed by something or simply bad. I still want to give it a try though, so here we go!

Mega Venusaur inheriting from Venomoth (or Dustox) as a Hard Check



Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Ability: Shield Dust ---> Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
- Quiver Dance
- Roost
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb

If Azelf has the specially based spread, M-Venusaur can come in on any of Azelf's physical moves and Thunderbolt, and if Azelf has the physically based spread, it can avoid the 2HKO from every single move Azelf has. Thick Fat and Quiver Dance helps M-Venusaur to better tank special hits (notably Flamethrowers and Ice Beams). Giga Drain and Roost helps it to stay healthy throughout the matchup. The only thing M-Venusaur really fears from Azelf is Nasty plot which boosts its SpAtk faster than M-Venusaur boosts its SpDef, which puts the latter in big trouble.

The given spread makes M-Venusaur as bulky as possible on the physical side while outspeeding uninvested base 80 Speed and fully invested neutral natured base 100 at +1. More speed can be added to outspeed more threats at +1 (or +2 if necessary).
4 SpA Life Orb Protean Azelf Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Venusaur: 66-78 (18.1 - 21.4%) -- guaranteed 5HKO after Stealth Rock

4 SpA Life Orb Protean Azelf Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Thick Fat Mega Venusaur: 133-159 (36.5 - 43.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

4 SpA Life Orb Protean Azelf Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Thick Fat Mega Venusaur: 133-159 (36.5 - 43.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Life Orb Protean Azelf Superpower vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Mega Venusaur: 78-92 (21.4 - 25.2%) -- 99.2% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Life Orb Protean Azelf Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Mega Venusaur: 105-125 (28.8 - 34.3%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Life Orb Protean Azelf Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Mega Venusaur: 130-153 (35.7 - 42%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Azelf Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Venusaur: 79-94 (21.7 - 25.8%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Life Orb Protean Azelf Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Thick Fat Mega Venusaur: 159-190 (43.6 - 52.1%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Life Orb Protean Azelf Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Thick Fat Mega Venusaur: 159-190 (43.6 - 52.1%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Mega Venusaur Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Azelf: 129-153 (44.3 - 52.5%) -- 17.2% chance to 2HKO

0 SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Azelf: 154-183 (52.9 - 62.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+1 0 SpA Mega Venusaur Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Azelf: 96-114 (32.9 - 39.1%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO (when Azelf becomes Steel-type)

+2 0 SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Azelf: 307-363 (105.4 - 124.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Some feedback would be appreciated on the set's quality since I know very little of the Inheritance metagame and I don't know if there are any notable viable sets from which I should be choosing from when I want to nominate something. Thank you all for reading and have a good one!
 
I'm new to this OM (and to pretty much every OM), so I don't know if the set below is outclassed by something or simply bad. I still want to give it a try though, so here we go!

Mega Venusaur inheriting from Venomoth (or Dustox) as a Hard Check



Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Ability: Shield Dust ---> Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
- Quiver Dance
- Roost
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb

If Azelf has the specially based spread, M-Venusaur can come in on any of Azelf's physical moves and Thunderbolt, and if Azelf has the physically based spread, it can avoid the 2HKO from every single move Azelf has. Thick Fat and Quiver Dance helps M-Venusaur to better tank special hits (notably Flamethrowers and Ice Beams). Giga Drain and Roost helps it to stay healthy throughout the matchup. The only thing M-Venusaur really fears from Azelf is Nasty plot which boosts its SpAtk faster than M-Venusaur boosts its SpDef, which puts the latter in big trouble.

The given spread makes M-Venusaur as bulky as possible on the physical side while outspeeding uninvested base 80 Speed and fully invested neutral natured base 100 at +1. More speed can be added to outspeed more threats at +1 (or +2 if necessary).
4 SpA Life Orb Protean Azelf Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Venusaur: 66-78 (18.1 - 21.4%) -- guaranteed 5HKO after Stealth Rock

4 SpA Life Orb Protean Azelf Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Thick Fat Mega Venusaur: 133-159 (36.5 - 43.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

4 SpA Life Orb Protean Azelf Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Thick Fat Mega Venusaur: 133-159 (36.5 - 43.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Life Orb Protean Azelf Superpower vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Mega Venusaur: 78-92 (21.4 - 25.2%) -- 99.2% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Life Orb Protean Azelf Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Mega Venusaur: 105-125 (28.8 - 34.3%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Life Orb Protean Azelf Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Mega Venusaur: 130-153 (35.7 - 42%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Azelf Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Venusaur: 79-94 (21.7 - 25.8%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Life Orb Protean Azelf Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Thick Fat Mega Venusaur: 159-190 (43.6 - 52.1%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Life Orb Protean Azelf Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Thick Fat Mega Venusaur: 159-190 (43.6 - 52.1%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Mega Venusaur Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Azelf: 129-153 (44.3 - 52.5%) -- 17.2% chance to 2HKO

0 SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Azelf: 154-183 (52.9 - 62.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+1 0 SpA Mega Venusaur Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Azelf: 96-114 (32.9 - 39.1%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO (when Azelf becomes Steel-type)

+2 0 SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Azelf: 307-363 (105.4 - 124.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Some feedback would be appreciated on the set's quality since I know very little of the Inheritance metagame and I don't know if there are any notable viable sets from which I should be choosing from when I want to nominate something. Thank you all for reading and have a good one!
Definitely a good set. Though, it can't switch in on an Ice Beam or Flamethrower but I guess that's why it's a check. While this definitely does check Azelf, I'd recommend using this the least out of all the submitted Pokemon simply because it's weak to Lando-T which is arguably the most common Pokemon in inheritance.
 

canno

formerly The Reptile
Nominating Rotom-H as a check


Rotom-Heat @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Flamethrower / Fire Blast / Overheat
- Will-O-Wisp
- Morning Sun
- Protect / Stealth Rock / Earth Power

This thing serves as a general Protean check as well (so things like Protean Latias and stuff), resisting the big 3 - Thunderbolt, Ice Beam, and Fire Blast - while also not being weak to the other moves. Sadly this thing loses to Superpower and Aqua Tail/Water Pulse variants, but Aqua Tail isn't that common (Superpower is more-so though). Knock Off also hinders it but it doesn't lose to it. It also gets beaten by Nasty Plot sets, as it can't do enough damage to actually kill it. At best it trades due to LO damage. Protect is to scout and to get more lefties.

~~~

4 Atk Life Orb Protean Azelf Aqua Tail vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Rotom-H: 289-343 (95 - 112.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Azelf Water Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Rotom-H: 174-205 (57.2 - 67.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Protean Azelf Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Rotom-H: 156-183 (51.3 - 60.1%) -- 89.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Protean Azelf Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Rotom-H: 227-269 (74.6 - 88.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Life Orb Protean Azelf Superpower vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Rotom-H: 192-227 (63.1 - 74.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 4 Atk Life Orb Protean Azelf Superpower vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Rotom-H: 129-152 (42.4 - 50%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Life Orb Protean Azelf Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Rotom-H: 156-185 (51.3 - 60.8%) -- 90.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Life Orb Protean Azelf Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Rotom-H: 105-125 (34.5 - 41.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Azelf Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Rotom-H: 78-92 (25.6 - 30.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Azelf Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Rotom-H: 64-75 (21 - 24.6%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Azelf Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Rotom-H: 114-136 (37.5 - 44.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

~~~

0 SpA Rotom-H Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Azelf: 166-196 (57 - 67.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Rotom-H Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Azelf: 135-160 (46.3 - 54.9%) -- 66.8% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Rotom-H Overheat vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Azelf: 195-231 (67 - 79.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

~~~

If you want to better deal with it you can run a Prankster set with Sableye, as you can Wisp or Recover before Azelf can hit you again with Koff or Superpower. What this has over LeviTran is that it resists Fire and Electric, and its not weak to Superpower and fighting in general.

252 SpA Life Orb Protean Azelf Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 157-187 (40.6 - 48.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
 
Check;



Tyranitar @ Life Lorb
Ability: Dark Aura
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Sucker Punch
- Rock Slide / filler / protect
- U-turn / filler / protect

Tyranitar that inherits from Yveltal bursts an absolutely devastating sucker punch, which Azelf cannot really handle properly, infact, not much can.
If tyranitar switches in on anything outside of SuperPower / Drain Punch (or the rare iron tail (68% OHKO), aqua tail(8% OHKO)), it will be able to threaten Azelf and usualy scare it out, making it also a very great pivot on top of its powerful one punch;
252+ Atk Life Orb Dark Aura Tyranitar Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Azelf: 341-403 (117.1 - 138.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO (neutral)
252+ Atk Dark Aura Tyranitar Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Azelf: 262-310 (90 - 106.5%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Dark Aura Tyranitar Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Azelf: 170-201 (58.4 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (resist)
252+ Atk Dark Aura Tyranitar Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Azelf: 131-155 (45 - 53.2%) -- 33.6% chance to 2HKO (resist)
It's also very neat that if azelf had used knock off or nasty plot on switch in, Tyranitar can still take half of its HP away and with life orbs chip damage it significantly drops Azelf's longitivity, ofcourse as long as it aint drain punching that is.
 
Nominating Rotom-H as a check


Rotom-Heat @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Flamethrower / Fire Blast / Overheat
- Will-O-Wisp
- Morning Sun
- Protect / Stealth Rock / Earth Power

This thing serves as a general Protean check as well (so things like Protean Latias and stuff), resisting the big 3 - Thunderbolt, Ice Beam, and Fire Blast - while also not being weak to the other moves. Sadly this thing loses to Superpower and Aqua Tail/Water Pulse variants, but Aqua Tail isn't that common (Superpower is more-so though). Knock Off also hinders it but it doesn't lose to it. It also gets beaten by Nasty Plot sets, as it can't do enough damage to actually kill it. At best it trades due to LO damage. Protect is to scout and to get more lefties.

~~~

4 Atk Life Orb Protean Azelf Aqua Tail vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Rotom-H: 289-343 (95 - 112.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Azelf Water Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Rotom-H: 174-205 (57.2 - 67.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Protean Azelf Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Rotom-H: 156-183 (51.3 - 60.1%) -- 89.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Protean Azelf Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Rotom-H: 227-269 (74.6 - 88.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Life Orb Protean Azelf Superpower vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Rotom-H: 192-227 (63.1 - 74.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 4 Atk Life Orb Protean Azelf Superpower vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Rotom-H: 129-152 (42.4 - 50%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Life Orb Protean Azelf Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Rotom-H: 156-185 (51.3 - 60.8%) -- 90.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Life Orb Protean Azelf Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Rotom-H: 105-125 (34.5 - 41.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Azelf Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Rotom-H: 78-92 (25.6 - 30.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Azelf Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Rotom-H: 64-75 (21 - 24.6%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Azelf Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Rotom-H: 114-136 (37.5 - 44.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

~~~

0 SpA Rotom-H Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Azelf: 166-196 (57 - 67.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Rotom-H Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Azelf: 135-160 (46.3 - 54.9%) -- 66.8% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Rotom-H Overheat vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Azelf: 195-231 (67 - 79.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

~~~

If you want to better deal with it you can run a Prankster set with Sableye, as you can Wisp or Recover before Azelf can hit you again with Koff or Superpower. What this has over LeviTran is that it resists Fire and Electric, and its not weak to Superpower and fighting in general.

252 SpA Life Orb Protean Azelf Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 157-187 (40.6 - 48.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
A similar set that also checks Azelf inherits from Primal Groudon:

Rotom-H @ Leftovers
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Fire Blast
- Thunderbolt
- Will-O-Wisp / Thunder Wave
- Dragon Tail / Roar / Stealth Rock

The specifics are up for grabs, but basically this should be able to tank any hit that the original set does, as well as the odd Aqua Tail or Water Pulse. Incidentally, it counters any Primal Kyogre inheritors that don't run Earthquake / HP Ground. It gets two STABS (one sun-boosted and basically OHKOing neutral Azelf), the option of running Thunder Wave, and phazing moves to use on Azelves that feel like setting up Nasty Plot on it.

It's obviously more fragile than the above set given its lack of recovery, and loses out on a Ground immunity, but it also does other things.
 

Snaquaza

KACAW
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Counters: Cresselia (Shaky)
Check: Rotom-Heat, Venusaur-Mega, Tyranitar, Aegislash, Landorus-Therian

The next week will be AAA Suicune. Suggested by imas234


Suicune @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Scald
- Protect
- Roar / Ice Beam

This Suicune set is a very important set to prepare for in Almost Any Ability. It functions as a great wincondition for stall, semi-stall and balanced teams due to its great bulk and ability to slowly set up. It can't even be worn down by status now! After a few Calm Minds few Pokemon will be able to beat it, due to its raised Special stats and titanic Defense. Luckily, it doesn't have reliable recovery, so it's not too hard to wear down by repeated hits, but what can safely switch in on this and win? How do you prevent this thing from terribly sweeping you? Suggest Checks and Counters now!
 
well i said either this or bounce/unaware crocune

As far as counters go, this is probably the best.

Celebi @ Meadow Plate
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 220 HP / 252 SpA / 36 Spe
Modest Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Recover
- Healing Wish
- Psychic

Suicune's unboosted ice beam does nothing to it and scald is resisted. So, it basically switches in and kills it. Psychic for STAB, recover for longetivity and healing wish is just a great move to have in a lot of situations.
 
AAA Crocune, with Poison Heal or (maybe even worse) unaware is nearly uncounterable without a waterproof (preferably one that can resist ice) pokemon that can avoid toxic.
Sheer force Raikou and Thundy can take it down fast enough if it's not bearing too many boosts already.
 
AAA Crocune, with Poison Heal or (maybe even worse) unaware is nearly uncounterable without a waterproof (preferably one that can resist ice) pokemon that can avoid toxic.
Sheer force Raikou and Thundy can take it down fast enough if it's not bearing too many boosts already.
Not true. If it's the unaware variant, it's running the crocune set and cannot even carry ice beam, so something like unaware zapdos more or less counters it and it's not bad because it can double as a SD gw skarmory counter and a gale wings check.

Edit-
68 SpA Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 222-264 (54.9 - 65.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
88 SpA Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 224-266 (55.4 - 65.8%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal (if you want it to be more of a suicune counter, then you can invest more in spA and take evs from def/hp. It'll still counter skarm, but be a shakier gw check)

4 SpA Suicune Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Zapdos: 130-154 (33.8 - 40.1%) -- 31% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
 
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Not true. If it's the unaware variant, it's running the crocune set and cannot even carry ice beam, so something like unaware zapdos more or less counters it and it's not bad because it can double as a SD gw skarmory counter and a gale wings check.

Edit- i'll be editing in more in a few minutes
IF it's the unaware variant, which you can't predict. In any case the only things that can cause damage to cune are electric and grass moves, which are both really counterable
 
IF it's the unaware variant, which you can't predict. In any case the only things that can cause damage to cune are electric and grass moves, which are both really counterable
Well if initially the toxic orb isn't revealed, it is unaware/bounce, either way the zapdos beats it 1v1. With team support most things can become really great, but as 1v1 checks/counters (which is what this thread is supposed to look for) the mons i posted are legit.

I'm not saying you're wrong btw, i often struggle with cune because of the same reasons. My usual methods usually are to try to kill if before it gets the initial calm mind up. And this is why i have more trouble with the protect spamming ph cune (fuck that thing man).
 
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Listing my bff Tough Claws Ferrothorn as a check.

Ferrothorn @ Lum Berry / Choice Band
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Power Whip
- Gyro Ball
- Knock Off
- Bulldoze

Switches in on Protect or Calm Mind, obviously, and can tank most Ice Beams if you didn't let Suicune set up too terribly.

+2 4 SpA Suicune Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Ferrothorn: 105-124 (29.8 - 35.2%) -- 20% chance to 3HKO

It CAN switch in on Scald (which does less than Ice Beam), but it obviously despises burns. It destroys Suicune via its Power(ful) Whip:

252+ Atk Choice Band Tough Claws Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 450-530 (111.3 - 131.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Tough Claws Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 302-356 (74.7 - 88.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal

Suicune can try for a Scald burn, but it's less than wise in any case.

Gyro Ball, Knock Off, and Bulldoze are Ferrothorn's best other moves, and there's little reason to use them against Suicune.

Other options for the ability include Water Veil and Water Absorb if you want to run Choice Band, but they're more niche than Tough Claws and don't OHKO Crocune:

252+ Atk Choice Band Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 338-398 (83.6 - 98.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal

The advantage of using Ferrothorn over other checks/counters is that it doesn't rely on Unaware or Water Absorb to get around Calm Mind boosts, letting it run a more offensively oriented ability. The downside is the possibility of Scald burns, unless you opt for a Lum Berry or Water Veil/Absorb.
 
My favorite pokemon to use in aaa, it eats all variants of suicune alive, and has so many uses outside of beating suicune that it's crazy; Metal Sound Desolate Land Heatran as a counter:

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 248 HP / 232 SpA / 28 SpD
Modest Nature
- Substitute
- Magma Storm
- Metal Sound
- Earth Power

Switch this in and basically
1) Substitute + spam metal sound if it's unaware
2) Spam metal sound/Earth power if it's poison heal
while cune does absolutely nothing back.

Note that magic bounce cune can pp stall you, but that's so uncommon as opposed to the first two variants that it doesn't really take away from heatran's overall viability as a stallbreaker and a cune counter.

Unlike some water absorbers/desolate land pokemon, cune can't simply pp stall you; it will constantly have its spDef lowered by metal sound to the point where it will eventually die to a couple of earth powers/magma storms.

Other options include Taunt over Substitute, but that's a bit excessive, since Substitute is usually best for other scenarios. You could also try lava plume/fire blast over magma storm; the former for pp and a high burn chance, and the latter for more power and more accuracy, although I generally prefer magma storm.

+6 4 SpA Suicune Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 28 SpD Heatran: 55-64 (14.2 - 16.6%) -- guaranteed 7HKO (if you somehow misclick 6 times)
232+ SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. -3 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 237-279 (58.6 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal (You only need it at around -3 to 2HKO it, which isn't too hard to do)

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/almostanyability-214514089
(I guess this constitutes as a good replay??)
 
Incredibly niche, but is absolutely awesome to pull off.
Nominating Poison Heal Cresselia as a Check: (yep, another one)

Cresselia @ Pecha Berry
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
- Trick
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock
- Moonblast / Moonlight / Magic Coat

Both Cress and Suicune have the same base speed, so the 4 evs are to outspeed it lel. Of course, feel free to increase speed if you wanna speed creep. The best part about this set is that it works against almost every relevant PH mon i can think of. When up against PH Suicune, simply use trick to remove it's ONLY form of recovery, and provide you with one. Once you remove the poison, Suicune becomes very easy to weaken and eventually KO. Calm Mind because setup is fun, STAB Psyshock to win CM wars, and the last slot is your choice. Moonblast has good coverage, Moonlight is cool because recovery, and Magic Coat is useful for bouncing back roars and taunts.
Sadly though it can't reliably switch in thanks to scald's burn chance, but that's why it's a check, not a counter.

Here's a cool calc btw
+6 4 SpA Suicune Scald vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Cresselia: 253-298 (56.9 - 67.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
+6 4 SpA Suicune Scald vs. +6 252 HP / 0 SpD Cresselia: 64-76 (14.4 - 17.1%) -- possibly the worst move ever

+6 0 SpA Cresselia Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 178-210 (44 - 51.9%) -- 12.5% chance to 2HKO

This set also beats things like PH curselax, and the fact that it has a pecha berry might lead people to think it's not PH and try to toxic it.
 

Snaquaza

KACAW
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Sorry that I'm really late on this. I didn't realize it's been so long already!
Counters: Heatran, Celebi
Checks: Cresselia, Ferrothorn

Thanks for participating everyone. The next metagame is Tier Shift!


Sharpedo @ Sharpedonite
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant / Lonely Nature
- Protect
- Waterfall / Hydro Pump
- Crunch
- Ice Fang / Earthquake

Sharpedo-Mega is a huge threat in Tier Shift, being A+ in the viability rankings. Even though it only gets +5 boosts, it's still enough to beat up a large part of the metagame, in addition to being an awesome cleaner when it gets a Speed Boost boost. How do you prevent this monster from sweeping your team? (Especially on offensive teams)
 
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It basically has different counters for the different sets, but without eq this checks it.

Toxicroak @ Black Sludge
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Poison Jab
- Drain Punch
- Sucker Punch

Switches in on waterfalls and drain punches.

252+ Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Sharpedo: 406-478 (144.4 - 170.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Strong Jaw Mega Sharpedo Ice Fang vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Toxicroak: 169-199 (44.4 - 52.3%) -- 21.5% chance to 2HKO
 
It basically has different counters for the different sets, but without eq this checks it.

Toxicroak @ Black Sludge
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Poison Jab
- Drain Punch
- Sucker Punch

Switches in on waterfalls and drain punches.

252+ Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Sharpedo: 406-478 (144.4 - 170.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Strong Jaw Mega Sharpedo Ice Fang vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Toxicroak: 169-199 (44.4 - 52.3%) -- 21.5% chance to 2HKO
I'd like to point out Mega Shark hardly ever runs EQ, Ice Fang is far more common for Dragons (esp Altaria) so croak here is a pretty solid check
 
Nominating Poliwrath as a counter.


Poliwrath @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Scald
- Circle Throw

TS stats: 105/110/110/85/105/85

Poliwrath's ability, bulk, and typing allow it to tank virtually any hit from Mega Sharpedo, while it can force the shark out with Scald or Circle Throw. A variety of Poliwrath sets beat Sharpedo one-on-one, but this one seemed to be the most reliable.

+2 252+ Atk Strong Jaw Mega Sharpedo Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 156-185 (37.6 - 44.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Mega Sharpedo Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 88-104 (21.2 - 25.1%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO

Without Swords Dance, Sharpedo can't 3HKO Poliwrath. Meanwhile, Poli is destroying it with Circle Throw.

4 Atk Poliwrath Circle Throw vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Sharpedo: 180-212 (61.8 - 72.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO.

A Bulk Up set can actually use Sharpedoes without Swords Dance as setup fodder, but you have to run 252 HP / 252 Def to consistently avoid the 2HKO from +2 Crunch anyways, so I don't know how well that would perform against other threats.
 

truedrew

Banned deucer.
So had some free time today so posting 2 mons (On phone so forgive the lack of sprites)


Number 1: Whimsicott as a check (hard if no ice fang)
Whimsicott @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP/232 Def/26 Sp attack
Bold (+Def - Attack )
- Moonblast/Giga Drain
- Stun Spore
- Tailwind/U-Turn
- Encore/Leech Seed/Grass Whistle

TS STATS (70/77/95/87/85/126)
By virtue ofor its amazing typing, Whimsicott resists both of sharks stabs and even can punish it if it's sd by simply encoring it. Apart from that, stun spore cripples any non grass type that switches in and can help support the team by just allowing the opposition to be out sped making it easier to deal with other threats. Grass whistle is a decent choice for sleep but is shaky in accuracy so use it at your own risk. The benifit of it is that it allows you to put any grass type switch ins to sleep as it is not a powder based move and thus allows a sort of double powder strategy which has the added abillity of crippling immune pokemon. Tailwind is for further team support and allows you to be a better abuser of prankster. Leech seed is for more shenanigans and provides good recovery for whims. Giga drain for more recovery or moonblast for better stab. and damage. the given spread allows you to switch in consistently against non ice fang sharpedos and effectlively take hits.

Team support: any bulky steel types whom can take on poison types are great due to the nasty poison quad weakness. Interestingly enough heatran makes an amazing partner due to it being immune to fire and poison and also resisting steel while it can set up SR as well as forming a nice defensive core which can take on a plethora of threats. Furthermore adding wish support from the likes of alomomola benefits both te Pokemon due to their lack of reliable recovery moves and it als9 forms a nice FWG core. Additionally defog is very good for this mon as it hates losing 12 percent every time it switches in. Additionally a faster spread of 56 hp/ 232 speed and 220 special attack allows you to kill sharpedo if it decides to stay in

Edit: tagging Snaquaza to remover SD from the set posted and also thanking Megazard Z for pointing it out
 
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Nominating Physically Defensive Cradily as a Counter


Cradily @ Leftovers
Ability: Storm Drain
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Calm Nature
- Giga Drain
- Earth Power
- Recover
- Hidden Power [Fire]


Cradily switches into Waterfall from Sharpedo to gain a 1.5x boost in Special Attack. It then can live two Crunches and has a 2% chance to be OHKO'd by Ice Fang. After living this hit (If they stay in, but Sharpedo is a late game cleaner anyways so a late game +1 Cradily can still finish off many teams), Cradily OHKO's with Giga Drain and regains most of it's lost HP.

252+ Atk Strong Jaw Mega Sharpedo Ice Fang vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Cradily: 184-218 (45.4 - 53.8%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Strong Jaw Mega Sharpedo Crunch vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Cradily: 171-202 (42.2 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

4 SpA Cradily Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Sharpedo: 210-248 (72.1 - 85.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+1 4 SpA Cradily Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Sharpedo: 314-372 (107.9 - 127.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

The only thing you need to do is make sure that Sharpedo Waterfalls, which isn't difficult most of the time when using Cradily's traditional partners; Hippowdon, Tyranitar, Steelix-Mega, or any other sand offense mon really.
 

truedrew

Banned deucer.
Seeing get as nobody has posted Muchart. .
Posting Chesnaught as a stone counter

Chesnaught @ Leftovers
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Spikes/Spiky Shield
- Leech Seed/Toxic
- Roar/Spikes
- Drain Punch/Seed Bomb

TS STATS (93/112/127/79/80/69)
RelevantCalc
252+ Atk Strong Jaw Mega Sharpedo Ice Fang vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 154-182 (39.4 - 46.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Chesnaught by virtue of its amazing typing can easily eat up any non ice fang

Sharks and even ice fang is a messily 3hko making it an amazing counter for shark. Although recovery might be an issue drain lunch and leech seed are there to patch that up with lefties and spiky shield providing additional recovery. Drain punch is the preferred STAB move due to it giving nice recovery to chess but seed bomb can be used to hit other water/ground types like hippo and swampert whilst still damaging ttar and such but leaves chess open to be going set up on by steel and fire types. Spikes and roar combination provide effective phasing while allowing chess to beat crocune in a pinch also roar insures that trappers can't set up all over you especially goth family. Spikes also wares down the opponents team allowing chess and it's teammates to sweep/clean shirt easier. Spikes and spiky shield also work together to deal consistent chip damage to opponents. If needed, wood hammer can be used to ko any shark that stays in. EV spread is simple and straightforward maximising what's important. Toxic allows chess to cripple the opponents ts switch ins and works well with spikes and spiky shield for loads of passive damage.

Good team mates include wish passers and status removers to help chess wall easier. Also SR mons appreciated for nice hazard pair. Notable mentions include heat ran
 
Listing Tangrowth as a counter

Tangrowth @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Giga Drain / Leaf Storm
- Knock Off
- Earthquake / Sleep Powder
- Hidden Power [Fire] / Hidden Power [Ice]

I don't really know much about about Tier shift but this is what I was using in my old RU team to deal with phisical sharpedo. I did the calcs with the tier shift stats and it holds up to it's standard.
110 / 135 phisical bulk makes tangrowth really hard to take down even with super effective hits and regenerator allows him to be an annoyance for a really long time.

252+ Atk Strong Jaw Mega Sharpedo Ice Fang vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 146-174 (34.4 - 41%) -- 62.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Tangrowth Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Sharpedo: 254-300 (87.2 - 103%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
0 SpA Tangrowth Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Sharpedo: 440-518 (151.2 - 178%) -- guaranteed OHKO

The moves are probably not optimal since I took this set from Tangrowth's OU set on the smogon pokedex. Other options include leech seed and synthesis for more recovery or rock slide and focus blast for coverage.
 

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