CAP 20 CAP 20 - Part 7 - Secondary Ability Discussion

[QueenOfLuvdiscs]

I feel like Trace shouldn't be allowed as it allows CAP 20 to switch in on an Excadrill and trace the Sand Rush and then OHKO it with its STAB options. For a second ability, we could either follow the status immune line and use Limber or we could go for something which could help it set up like Intimidate as that will allow to to help potentially set up against some more Pokemon.

 

[BigWigs]

Currently supporting Shell/Battle Armor for secondary ability. It would work like it does for Mega Slowbro: make sure a sweep (CM more in this case) doesn't get stopped by pesky critical hits, a decent safety measure. I don't feel like it would overshadow Water Veil at all, seeing as DD's likely going to fall, at least on the special side, crit or not, and CM would likely have the investment (and possibly recovery) to take one. I also like Oblivious to block Taunt, Clear Body/White Smoke to ignore Intimidate (hope this doesn't mess with Lando-T too much) for DD and stopping any other haxy stat drops from the likes for Shadow Ball, Mold Breaker to screw over Clefable, and a few others. While there are some other abilities to offer that haven't really been discussed (Pressure, Suction Cups), I feel like the ones currently offered are among the best to discuss, really.

 

[Elite Lord Sigma]

Most everything I'd want to mention has already been brought up, so I'm going to make comments on a few abilities.

While Clear Body is a decent ability, it is outclassed in virtually all practical regards by Shield Dust. Moves that solely lower stats are seldom seen in competitive play, and Clear Body does not block Haze. As such, most of the moves that could lower CAP 20's stats (e.g. Moonblast, Psychic, Shadow Ball) would have those stat reductions blocked by Shield Dust. Additionally, Shield Dust guards against added effects like freezing and flinching, making it a superior option. Furthermore, the Calm Mind set does not care about having its Attack dropped by Intimidate, encouraging Shield Dust's use on that set.

My one reservation about Sticky Hold is that it does not reduce damage from Knock Off. While it isn't the worst ability, it doesn't particularly favor one set over the other. As DLC said, the Dragon Dance set seems better than the Calm Mind set at this point, so I'd think an ability that helps the CM set carve out its niche would be a better choice.

Competitive serves a similar purpose to Clear Body. However, instead of blocking stat changes, Competitive allows the CAP to benefit from them. Having an additional boost in Special Attack could be useful in helping the CAP break through threats more quickly.

So, aside from Shield Dust and Competitive, the only other viable options I've seen are Battle Armor/Shell Armor, Oblivious, and Early Bird. The first prevents random criticals from breaking the CAP, the second prevents Taunt from sabotaging set-up opportunities, and the third allows Rest recovery to be more viable.

 

[nyttyn]

Jumping in again, this is pretty much the last time I swear unless something else disproportionately powerful starts gaining traction: Competitive is far too powerful for CAP20's secondary ability, Bisharp alone should tell you how crazy good the ability to punish defoggers so badly is, it's not going to be slated, so please stop discussing it and refocus on other abilities thank you.

 

[Vann Accessible]

A good niche ability for the CM set to consider might be Soundproof. This gives CAP an immunity to Roar and Perish Song, common phazing moves which are the bane of other CM users, and lets it set up on things like Heatran, Politoed and Celebi. Whirlwind users such as Hippowdon and Skarmory are less of an issue as neither will appreciate a Scald at +1

As a bonus, we also gain an immunity to other sound attacks such Hyper Voice and Bug Buzz.

 

[capefeather]

I think that whether Water Veil helps DD more than CM is kind of irrelevant. It helps both in significant ways, and abilities don't necessarily have to help both sets equally to promote equal viability for both sets.

While I get the reasoning behind options like Oblivious and Shell Armor / Battle Armor, I think they miss the point of why various threats are threats to CAP to begin with. DD doesn't care about Taunt unless it's trying to set up on a Taunt user, and I don't see the point of making that happen. CM is only temporarily stopped by Taunt, and no OU special attacker to my recollection uses both Taunt and stat boosts so that situation is irrelevant (someone might say Sableye but... meh...). Shell Armor / Battle Armor is better, but I don't think it's worth dropping the burn immunity in most Calm Mind matchups we're interested in, and against Latios, Latias and Mega Slowbro it's kind of irrelevant. A more proactive option like Mold Breaker makes more sense here to me, giving CAP the power to land critical hits on Mega Slowbro and, perhaps more critically, ignore Pressure on Suicune and Unaware on Quagsire.

Options like Shed Skin and Shield Dust are trying to do the same thing as Water Veil but in slightly different ways. I'm not sure that doing this is worth it over a non-competitive ability. Shed Skin seems almost entirely outclassed by Water Veil to me in situations we care about. It does allow Rest shenanigans, but what's the point of that? Shield Dust is better because of its other selling point of preventing stat drop procs, but Clear Body / White Smoke also has that selling point on top of ignoring Intimidate.

I suppose what's left are niche options like Sticky Hold and Heatproof / Thick Fat. Sticky Hold gives CAP the ability to set up better on Mega Scizor and Bisharp. I suppose this helps DD more because we'd want to give as few SD turns as possible, but that's okay since CM can just Scald them. I suppose Heatproof and Thick Fat are mainly there to give Talonflame a really hard time. An even more out-there/niche possibility is Gale Wings for Keldeo and Breloom, but lol...

I don't think that other abilities that have been proposed have any significant justification that's relevant to the concept or the threat list. They mostly come off as generic buffs, abilities that are outclassed by the above for no good reason, or abilities that are rather too niche in my opinion to be worth having over NCA.

tl;dr Mold Breaker is cool and so is Clear Body / White Smoke

 

[PikapowerUltra]

I think that either Oblivious, Shell Armor or Clear Body would work. the other abilities all seem to be either useless to the point of just having an ability for its own sake, or powerful enough to outclass water veil. If we don't choose one of these, I would support NCA.

 

[sparktrain]

I'll add some support in favor of Heatproof, as it's definitely helpful for more than just Talonflame. This ability helps our matchup against special attacking Fire-types such as Mega Charizard Y and Volcarona; at the moment, their Fire Blasts severely damage CAP 20 due to it being hit neutrally as well as its low Special Defense.

vs a max HP CM set

252+ SpA Volcarona Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Empoleon: 288-339 (70.2 - 82.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Volcarona Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Empoleon: 262-309 (63.9 - 75.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Empoleon in Sun: 442-522 (107.8 - 127.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Volcarona is something that CAP 20 would enjoy being able to set up on, as mentioned at the end of threats discussion, but at the moment, it can overwhelm CM CAP 20 with Fire Blast, as well as severely damaging DD CAP 20. Heatproof also helps against Mega Charizard-Y, which can still put the hurt on a Heatproof CAP 20 with Focus Blast, but it must rely on hitting two/three Focus Blasts in a row to win if CAP 20 has obtained a boost, depending on bulk/potential recovery, which helps give CAP 20 an edge if it has boosted. Although this ability is quite useful in that it gives CAP 20 an extra resistance, Water Veil is still very much the superior ability. Being immune to Will-O-Wisp from users such as Rotom-W and Mega Sableye (not to mention avoiding burn from a plethora of Scald users) is invaluable to the Dragon Dance set's power and setup opportunities, as well as to the Calm Mind set's longevity. A resistance to Fire-type attacks doesn't go against anything on our threatlist either, in fact, it provides some help to CAP 20 (especially CM) in terms of what we'd like it to set up on, namely Volcarona, but at a significant cost, which would make it appropriate as a secondary ability.

As far as other abilities go, there's quite a few I also like. Clear Body/White Smoke are cool, as ignoring Intimidate can prove quite helpful in late-game scenarios where the opponent may try pivoting Intimidate users in to check/weaken DD CAP 20. Mold Breaker is nice to neutralize opposing Unaware and water-immune abilities among others. Shell Armor/Battle Armor are alright, as not being critted is pretty cool for the CM set once it boosts up, but probably not worth it over Water Veil a majority of the time. Thick Fat can act as a substitute for Heatproof, but Heatproof's reduced burn damage is much more useful than Thick Fat's reduced damage from Ice-type attacks, as we already 4x resist Ice.

 

[Cretacerus]

Hmm, I can't really remember Cloud Nine being brought up back then, and it seems to have rather limited use for our concept. I does prevent certain weather sweepers from checking both our sets even after a boost, which is great, but overall it looks a bit too situational to be worthwhile. While the Secondary Ability shouldn't define our playstyle too much, I would still expect it to provide a more consistent benefit than covering two (rather uncommon) threats, in order to give CAP an at least somewhat viable alternative to play with. Especially for a concept based around unpredictability and finding set-up opportunities, we shouldn't be too reserved with the alternative ability as long as it doesn't overshadow our primary option too much.
To address nyttyn's point specifically, I don't really like the argument of rejecting abilities in order to preserve common threats against both sets. We have to remember that Excadrill and co. were added to our threats list simply because of their positive matchup against CAP, and not because we're expecting any benefits for our concept out of it. I would even argue that deliberately keeping checks against both our sets is counterproductive for a concept called "Use The Boost To Get Through". Sure, we can't avoid common checks completely, but let's at least not retain them as such intentionally.

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That being said, a good direction to take are in my opinion abilities which provide CAP with new set-up opportunities.

Sticky Hold has already been mentioned several time as a good candidate for this job, as it complements our typing very nicely and allows us to reliably set up on Psychic types such as Latias/Latios without fearing the occasional Trick rendering both our sets useless. For the CM set which attempts to stay in for longer periods of time, permanent leftovers recovery is also a huge advantage, and - as has been said - fully powered Knock Offs are less of an issue due to our good matchup against most of its users.

Aroma Veil is a good alternative if we are worried about Taunt, or the occasional Disable and Encore, which are all very disruptive to set-up sweepers. I would consider it a suitable upgrade to the previously discussed Oblivious, which seemed to be too situational overall.

 

[Dratios]

I like Clear Body. It permits CAP 20 to punish people trying to get hazards off their side of the field, by setting up on the Rapid Spin or getting a free switch into the Defog. It prevents Moonblast Special Attack drops and Intimidate drops, and Shadow Ball drops if anyone besides Gengar uses that. This may have been brought up already, but Suction Cups might be an interesting ability choice to prevent losing those valuable boosts due to phazing.

 

[hendrix96]

I would like to bring up Analytic as it adds nothing to the dragon dance set, as our speed boost negates analytic's boost, and it still helps the calm mind set. Analytic with our weird speed stat is quite interesting, because if we put 0 Iv's and a negative nature for speed we become alot slower then pretty much any offensive mons that give us a hard time but the boost helps weaken them more efficently. But because we are still faster then uninvested base 60 speed mons, we cant just go hog wild after a boost because walls and tanks can switch in and take away our boost.

some examples

4 SpA Analytic CAP 20 Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 66-78 (16.3 - 19.3%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery
(66, 66, 67, 68, 69, 69, 70, 71, 72, 72, 73, 74, 75, 75, 76, 78)
4 SpA Analytic CAP 20 Scald vs. 248 HP / 176 SpD Mega Scizor: 91-108 (26.5 - 31.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
(91, 91, 93, 94, 96, 96, 97, 99, 99, 100, 102, 103, 103, 105, 106, 108)

Volcarona's passho berry is a issue but as we can almost secure a a perfect 2hko on it on the second turn.

0 SpA Analytic CAP 20 Hydro Pump vs. 96 HP / 0 SpD Passho Berry Volcarona: 142-168 (42.3 - 50.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
(142, 144, 145, 147, 148, 150, 151, 154, 156, 157, 159, 160, 162, 163, 165, 168)
0 SpA Analytic CAP 20 Hydro Pump vs. +1 96 HP / 0 SpD Volcarona: 188-224 (56.1 - 66.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(188, 192, 194, 198, 198, 200, 204, 206, 206, 210, 212, 216, 216, 218, 222, 224)

0 SpA CAP 20 Scald vs. 252 HP / 240 SpD Mega Aggron: 76-91 (22 - 26.4%) -- 15.6% chance to 4HKO
(76, 78, 79, 79, 81, 81, 82, 84, 84, 85, 85, 87, 88, 88, 90, 91)
+2 0 SpA CAP 20 Scald vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 84-100 (13 - 15.5%) -- possible 7HKO
(84, 85, 87, 87, 88, 90, 90, 91, 93, 93, 94, 96, 96, 97, 99, 100)
(without analytic)
0 SpA CAP 20 Scald vs. 244 HP / 192+ SpD Gliscor: 152-182 (43.1 - 51.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal
(152, 156, 158, 158, 162, 162, 164, 168, 168, 170, 170, 174, 176, 176, 180, 182)
(with analytic)
0 SpA Analytic CAP 20 Scald vs. 244 HP / 192+ SpD Gliscor: 198-234 (56.2 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
(198, 200, 200, 204, 206, 210, 210, 212, 216, 218, 222, 222, 224, 228, 230, 234)

with that said the boost is not that significant, until the calm minds are up

+2 0 SpA Analytic CAP 20 Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Garchomp: 336-396 (80 - 94.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
(336, 340, 343, 348, 351, 355, 360, 363, 367, 372, 375, 379, 384, 387, 391, 396)
+2 0 SpA Analytic CAP 20 Scald vs. 248 HP / 176 SpD Mega Scizor: 181-214 (52.7 - 62.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
(181, 183, 186, 187, 190, 192, 195, 196, 198, 201, 202, 205, 207, 210, 211, 214)
+2 0 SpA Analytic CAP 20 Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Altaria: 300-354 (84.7 - 100%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
(300, 302, 306, 308, 314, 318, 320, 324, 326, 330, 336, 338, 342, 344, 348, 354)

overall I like how analytic helps hit things slightly harder as a calm minder and doesnt give the dragon dance a boost at all.
thoughts?

 

[Peemoo]

Offensive Abilities:

Unaware- Helps stop opposing Setup Sweepers and Boosters, and will assist in Calm Mind wars. A solid ability that will help overcome Slowbro, Clefable, and Sableye
Compound Eyes- The added accuracy to moves such as Meteor Mash, Hydro Pump, and Blizzard helps improve the reliability of the CAP, and provides extra firepower on the Special side, as many would opt for Hydro Pump and Blizzard over Scald and Ice Beam for the added power, assuming the moves are available to the CAP.
Suction Cups- This would prevent our CAP from being phazed out after attaining boost, and would make an opponent's Skarmory who was attempting to wall become set-up bait.
Mold Breaker- Preventing opposing abilities form hindering the sweeping of the CAP is handy, though this ability seems less useful than other abilities.
Clear Body- With several Intimidate users that are quite prevalent, Clear Body helps prevent the Physically Offensive sets from being slowed down
Defiant- Makes an opponent's Intimidate a buff for the CAP and greatly improves sweeping potential. Predicting the opponent to switch into Gyarados, Landorus, or Salamance? Switch in the CAP and grab a free boost
Competitive- Along the lines of Defiant, this ability takes advantage of Intimidate users to increase the Special Attack of our CAP. Because of the ambiguity of our CAP, the opponent won't know if the CAP is running a Physical or a Special set. An opponent can predict incorrectly that the CAP is running a Physical set and switch in an Intimidate user, only to further boost the CAP. Depending on the movepool given to the CAP, access to Knock Off could help bluff a Physical set, only to be hiding a Calm Mind set.
Justified- This ability is very good in the current meta thanks to the prevalence of Knock Off and how most opponents feel safe spamming the move. Although Steel no longer resists Dark, the potential of providing an attack boost can dissuade the opponent from spamming the move. Losing an item is a hindrance, but the provided attack boost should more than make up for it
Download- A great ability to boost offensive presence. Maybe too good?
Moxie- A great ability for a Physical Sweeper, and one that can make the CAP difficult to wall after knocking out a Pokemon and after a boost


Defensive Abilities:

Thick Fat- By giving a Fire type resist and making Ice damage all but negligible, this ability increases the switch-in opportunities of our CAP. Great defensive ability
Shed Skin- Though not as reliable as another ability that would prevent burns or paralysis or sleep, Shed Skin allows our CAP to potentially shrug off all three.
Iron Barbs- An unlikely choice, but given adequate Physical Defense investment our CAP can take advantage of its numerous resists and perform a role similar to Physically Defensive Garchomp
Marvel Scale- Turns a burned CAP into a Physically Defensive Tank. On a Calm Mind set, greatly increases survivability.
Intimidate- The classic. Can prompt a switch by the opponent to allow a free turn to use Dragon Dance or Calm Mind.


All in all, most of the abilities being brought up seem to be more defensive in nature. Perhaps the secondary ability could be more offensively oriented to provide more variety to the CAP, though I would prefer another defensive ability such as Thick Fat or Intimidate. If boosting is the main goal, then making sure the CAP can survive to boost should be the priority.

 

[Mova]

To be honest, I'm not too fond of the suggested Abilities so far, and would prefer to go with No Competitive Ability. Water Veil covers everything we need, and Serene Grace is way too good for the CAP. Oblivious could work, although Taunt isn't too big of a problem for CAP 20. I really don't have anything else to say on the matter.

 

[Da Pizza Man]

Can we please stop mentioning Mold Breaker as a way to beat Mega Slowbro, because it just isn't reliable at that job. Unless we are making a Gen 1 Persian 3.0 (2.0 is Critdra), then we are essentially relying on hax to try to take Mega Slowbro out, which is not even close to the route we should be taking. Even worse, if we do get that crit but don't do enough damage, then Slowbro will heal the damage of and we will have to hope for a lucky crit again, which can be extremely annoying. I'm not saying that we shouldn't use Mold Breaker as an ability (I'm still thinking about that), but just stop using Mega Slowbro as something that we can beat by having Mold Breaker.

 

[Agile Turtle]

Please don't bring up type immunity abilities. What do you think this is, CAP 17? However I'm perfectly fine with Heatproof/Thick Fat, as they allow us to set up on fire types we were meant to set up on much easier. Things like Cloud Nine are dumb and I'd prefer NCA to them, however Clear Body, Oblivious, Shell/Batlle Armor and the like I can support.

 

[Bull Of Heaven]

While that's an interesting idea, it doesn't fit with the direction we've already chosen. Building two specific viable sets that will actually be used is already tricky; it's best that we stay focused on those instead of trying to juggle a third. Also, in building around DD and CM, we want to avoid competition for usage from other sets, not promote it. Crit boosting isn't really the kind of boost we're going for anyway, and I can't imagine the optics around it being good.

Might edit with other thoughts later, but no promises because phone posting isn't fun.

 

[Sechresse]

Duckpond, although sniper does make cap 20 less predictable it doesn't help it set up at all. As critical hits ignore stats changes both on both sides, you can see why set up can't happen. This is why critdra is good, it isn't effected by the Draco meteor spA drop. In other words this ability takes the cap down a different route then was intended.

Minor nitpick, but the attackers positive stat boosts are not ignored by critical hits. So if we have +1 from calm mind that will still be taken into account in damage calculation on a crit. The attacker's negative changes are ignored however, which brings in your critdra reference. Although a focus energy crit set would detract from the focus of CAP 20, the ability sniper in general does not. At the same time though it doesn't really add much to either set, just wanted to clear up the crit mechanics.

 

[hendrix96]

I wasn't trying to say you didn't know how Crits work I was just trying to explain that it kinda changes the concept. And although we are using a boost to get through with focus energy, you have to remember to things one your being dependent on the movepool as well using a boost move that the community didn't decide on.

Btw thank you sechresse
For ponting that out. I forgot that boost are accounted for your side.

 

[azureleaf17]

I'm on board with no competitive ability, simply because Water Veil covers a huge amount of our issues of setting up: the long-term residiual damage for a slow Calm Mind set, and the crippling affect it has on Attack for the Dragon Dance set. That being said, would it be okay to discuss marginally useful abilities as well? Like Steadfast, Inner Focus, or Unnerve? Because they would most likely never be used over Water Veil, but I could see them fitting here in place of no competitive ability.

 

[Alfalfa]

Most everything I'd want to mention has already been brought up, so I'm going to make comments on a few abilities.

While Clear Body is a decent ability, it is outclassed in virtually all practical regards by Shield Dust. Moves that solely lower stats are seldom seen in competitive play, and Clear Body does not block Haze. As such, most of the moves that could lower CAP 20's stats (e.g. Moonblast, Psychic, Shadow Ball) would have those stat reductions blocked by Shield Dust. Additionally, Shield Dust guards against added effects like freezing and flinching, making it a superior option. Furthermore, the Calm Mind set does not care about having its Attack dropped by Intimidate, encouraging Shield Dust's use on that set.

Does Shield Dust block Intimidate? If not, then your point is invalid, because the whole point of Clear Body is to block Intimidate so you do not have to worry about Gyarados or Mega Manectric cutting down on your attack power every time you come in.

 

[Clone]

since this mon is meant to be a versatile setup sweeper, wonder skin could be a good option for it. one of the main things with setup sweepers is that theyre prone to status move when setting up, and wonder skin turns moves such as will o wisp into a 40% accurate move, t wave into 50, etc. even taunt is now 50% accurate. if the goal of this mon is to be a truly effective setup sweeper, having an ability such as wonder skin could definitely alleviate a few issues for when it attempts to set up.

 

[nyttyn]

ok so trc's a bit busy so im stepping in, so consider this post as being more of a absolute than my own personal suggestions/preferences.


Well over half the abilities being brought up are completely unreasonable. In no particular order: Water Absorb, Dry Skin, Sap Sipper, Intimidate, Defiant/Competitive, Analyctic, Unaware, Download, Moxie, and Marvel Scale etc are all far too powerful to be considered. Use some common sense, please - we have no need for a particularly powerful secondary ability, and these are all powerful enough to be primaries in their own right.

Instead, focus your discussion on abilities like Sticky Hold, Shell Armor, Oblivious, Clear Body, etc. Though all things considered, we should probably wrap up soon, it seems discussion is slowing down and most of the relevant ability options have been argued for/against.

 

[vyomov]

I'd like to nominate Flare Boost as an alternative ability - while inferior on the DD set, Flare Boost allows CAP20 to take a more offensive approach if necessary, and makes it a good status absorber while maintaining Water Veil as the superior ability for both sets.
I also agree with nominations for abilities such as Heatproof and Sticky Hold, because both abilities help the CM set a little and ensure that it isn't overshadowed by the DD Set, without being powerful enough to overthrow Water Veil(especially Heatproof, which offers some versatility and depends largely on the team around CAP20, as if CAP 20's team is built with Heal Bell support, it may be wise to use Heatproof to let it take on offensive Fire-types such as Mega Char-Y and Volcarona better)

 

[Sabreholo]

Mummy would be a good secondary ability for CAP 20 for several reasons. Firstly, it heavily favours CM over DD which I believe is important due to that I, like several others, think that DD at the moment kind of overshadows CM and thus the secondary ability favouring CM would assist the concept. Secondly it helps us set up on multiple physical attackers on our list such as Scizor and Azumarill (maybe also might help us a bit with chansey since it may or may not remove natural cure?). That being said it is not superior to water veil since it swaps out us beating Scald (and other sources of burn residual damage) for being able to set up a easier on physical attackers

Example Calcs

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Empoleon: 149-176 (36.3 - 42.9%) -- 97.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Azumarill Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Empoleon: 75-89 (18.2 - 21.7%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Empoleon: 103-122 (25.1 - 29.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Empoleon: 51-61 (12.4 - 14.8%) -- possible 7HKO
+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Empoleon: 275-324 (67 - 79%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+6 252+ Atk Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Empoleon: 138-162 (33.6 - 39.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
(we still would have great difficulty setting up multiple boosts on Belly Drum w/o recovery, but mummy enables that to be a possiblity given those move options)
+2 84 Atk Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Empoleon: 25-30 (6 - 7.3%) -- possibly the worst move ever
252 Atk Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Empoleon: 152-182 (37 - 44.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Breloom Mach Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Empoleon: 102-122 (24.8 - 29.7%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Hammer Arm vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Empoleon: 244-288 (59.5 - 70.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Mega Metagross Hammer Arm vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Empoleon: 182-216 (44.3 - 52.6%) -- 22.3% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk burned Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Empoleon: 109-130 (26.5 - 31.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
(if scald gets a burn, with guts removed conkeldurr is neutered against the cap, very niche situation however)
252+ Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Empoleon: 23-27 (5.6 - 6.5%) -- possibly the worst move ever
(No more flinch spam shenanigans allowing for ease of set up)

I also like Heatproof/Thick Fat since they allow CM easier set up on offensive fire types such as Mega Charizard Y, Talonflame, and Volcarona (the latter two whom are on our set up fodder lists)

 

[DetroitLolcat]

I'm a fan of Heatproof since it's only good on the Calm Mind set. No sane player is going to give up Scald and Will-O-Wisp immunity to take a little less damage from Fire moves, but since CM doesn't care about the Attack drop it could really use Heatproof. Now, if CM CAP20 gets Burned it can no longer get frozen or paralyzed, plus it forces opposing Pokemon like Mega Charizard Y to use less accurate moves to take us down.