ASB Adventure Battles Community Feedback Thread (Current Topic: Items)

(Credit to Eternal Drifter for putting together the introduction)

Create-A-Pokémon Anime-Style Battling Adventure Battle Rebuild Thread

First off, sorry for the delay. We all have lives to get to, and that has delayed us to this point. However, this isn't dead (not yet, at least); we're going to push onwards regardless.

As several people pointed out, trainer creation for Adventure Battles is flawed, and it is also complex. While we are planning on placing a patch out for pre-built trainers to allow one to 'test the waters' as it were with ease, we are going to work on at first working out the flaws of the Trainer Building.

Stat-buy is fine where it is, though it could possibly be changed later with community input. This leaves us with four areas for improvement: Types, Abilities, Moves, and Items.

When the original Adventure Battle project was being started (while the Icy Forest battle was going on), the original project head decided to keep it realistic, only going for types and powers that could make sense for a human and wasn't too powerful. In the rebuild, though, we are currently changing that slightly.

The more points you put into a type, the more you get out of it, and the larger a break from reality it is.

So, if you want a very powerful move, you're going to have to sacrifice some of the points going to Stats in order to get it.

Here is a potential example of the Dark-Type to see what we are talking about (Subject to change!):
5 points:
Dark typing
Moxie (Free)
Inner Focus (Free)
Fake Tears

10 points:
Defiant (Free)
Infiltrator (Free)
Intimidate (Free)
Bite
Feint Attack
Snarl
Thief

15 points:
Mold Breaker (Free)
Pickpocket (Free)
Pressure (5 points)
Crunch
Embargo
Payback
Taunt
Torment

20 points:
Bad Dreams (5 points)
Dark Aura (10 points)
Dark Pulse
Foul Play
Punishment
Sucker Punch


This is all subject to change as we push onwards, but serves as an example of how we currently expect types to work. For a cheap investment, you gain access to the type, access to a few extra ability choices, and one or two not really impressive moves. By paying more points for a type, you gain access to more powerful moves and more useful choices for abilities.

There are currently nine types planned for the rebuild, adding the Fairy type to the current eight options.

Available abilities are going to undergo an overhaul; new available abilities are going to be added, and some old abilities are at risk of being removed.

Finally, the way items work will also be changed. No items that have already been obtained or purchased will be removed, but their effects may change. Also, each item will be placed into two of eleven categories: permanent or temporary, and one of Melee Weapons, Ranged Weapons, Defensive, Tools, Support, Utility, Medicines, Item Carrying, or Set.

Quoting Maxim:
Maxim said:
Hello, and welcome to the Adventure Shop, for all of your dungeoneering needs! Let me explain some of the items you can find around here, and which aisle you can find them in!"

"Here they are:
1st: Melee Weapons: These are your bread and butter weapons, designed for stat based damage builds. They often come with physical typed moves and some even have minor stat buffs to make yourself a force to be reckoned with. However, you often pay the price in not having enough points left over for amazing abilities. Recommended for beginners!

2nd: Ranged Weapons: For the tactician in all of us, designed for ability based builds. These weapons are often designed around certain combinations of abilities, such as Skill Link, to do damage, even more damage than the Melee Weapons are usually able to hit! However, since you are spending so much on abilities, most builds turn into glass cannons, and are relatively weak stat wise.

3rd: Defensive: I know what you're thinking, if I can't get as good of stats as my Pokemon, why should I bother attacking? Well this is for those who want to tank instead of fight. These are shields or pieces of armor designed give defensive buffs, rare defensive moves (such as Grassy Terrain). Most models come with Taunt, to ensure that the enemy is attacking you instead of your teammates.

4th: Tools: This is where things get really interesting. Special attacking isn't usually a trainer's forte, but if you really want to do it we have the tools to get your started! These are items that grant the user special attacks, allowing for quite a bit of coverage. They come in two types, the Unlimited types have lower end moves, but you never have to worry about running out! Limited types allow for far stronger moves, but the reckless trainer will find them empty when they need it most.

5th: Support: As you might expect, we also have a line of items for those who wish to make their teammates happy. Typically these contain moves that can really help a party in need, but almost no offensive capability.

6th: Utility: For everything not covered above. Usually a random mishmash of items used for exploring, not fighting. Unlike the others, this takes up utility slots instead of Trainer Item Slots.

7th: Items: From potions to ethers, we have everything a budding adventurer could ever want. That said, if you want the higher end stuff, you'll have to find it, you can't get them here.


8th: Item Carrying: Of course, you hardly expect to carry all this stuff in your own two hands do you? These are items designed to let you carry everything in a convenient pack. It doesn't even take up the item slot, so go nuts! We have three models for you to choose from, the Chansey set, which lets you carry plenty of healing, the Runner Set, for the Pokemon catchers, and the Warrior Set, those interested in having a wide arsenal of weapons.

9th: Set Items: These are items that are adventure specific, you aren't going to find these in the store. However, our agents have come up with the descriptions for these if you wish to hunt them down."
==============================
(Maxim wrote this part)
With all of this in mind, feel free to ask questions and come up with your own ideas! Here are some of the things that we need your feedback on:

1) Type Tiers and Roles: For the most part, we're going to stick with the typings currently available with the potential addition of Fairy. However, the roles of each of these types, what they do, is not particularly well defined right now. If you have any ideas, it would be a big help to us.

2) Item Ideas: A lot of items that nobody has purchased will likely be eschewed for more useful items. We're definitely looking for items, so if we like a particular item you propose, it may be featured in the revamped Adventure Battles!

3) Anything else!: Got an AB plotline idea? Post it here and we'll talk with you about making it a reality. If you have any issues about balance in general, be sure to let us know.

With that, give us your feedback!
 
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Some stuff from the convo:
Question Marks indicate possibilities rather than must-haves.

Dark:
Bad Dreams?
Dark Aura
Defiant
Infiltrator
Inner Focus
Intimidate
Mold Breaker?
Moxie
Pickpocket
Prankster
Pressure
Sniper?
Unnerve

Assurance?
Beat Up?
Bite
Crunch
Dark Pulse?
Fake Tears
Feint Attack
Fling
Foul Play
Night Slash (Sword)
Payback
Pursuit
Snarl
Snatch?
Sucker Punch
Torment

Fairy:
Aroma Veil?
Cute Charm
Fairy Aura
Frisk?
Healer
Pixilate
Serene Grace
Trace?

Baby-Doll Eyes
Charm
Crafty Shield
Disarming Voice
Draining Kiss?
Geomancy
Grassy Terrain?
Helping Hand?
Misty Terrain?
Moonblast
Play Rough?
Sweet Kiss?

Fighting:
Anger Point?
Anticipation
Guts
Inner Focus
Iron Fist
Justified
Limber
Mold Breaker?
No Guard?
Sheer Force?
Steadfast
Technician?

Pretty much every damaging fighting-type move, except Aura Sphere, Flying Press, Focus Blast, and Vacuum Wave. (Sacred/Secret Sword are sword moves)
Bulk Up
Detect
Focus Energy
Foresight
Mat Block?
Quick Guard?

Ghost:
Cursed Body
Frisk?
Infiltrator
Insomnia
Levitate
Mummy
Prankster
Pressure
Shadow Tag?

Astonish
Confuse Ray
Curse
Destiny Bond
Forest's Curse
Grudge
Hex?
Lick
Night Shade
Nightmare?
Pain Split?
Phantom Force?
Shadow Ball?
Shadow Claw (Sword)
Shadow Punch
Shadow Sneak
Spite
Trick-Or-Treat
Will-O-Wisp

Normal:
Adaptability
Analytic
Anger Point?
Competitive
Cute Charm
Hustle?
Keen Eye
Klutz
Moody
Normalize
Own Tempo
Parental Bond?
Pickup
Reckless?
Rivalry
Run Away
Scrappy
Serene Grace?
Simple?
Skill Link
Speed Boost?
Super Luck
Thick Fat? (Maybe general?)

Body Slam
Boomburst?
Comet Punch
Covet
Cut (Sword)
Dizzy Punch
Double Hit
Double Slap
Double-Edge
Echoed Voice
Extreme Speed?
Facade
Fake Out?
False Swipe
Feint?
Flail?
Focus Energy
Follow Me?
Foresight
Fury Attack
Fury Swipes (Sword)
Glare? (Maybe some other type?)
Growl
Guillotine? (Sword)
Head Charge
Headbutt
Helping Hand?
Hyper Voice
Last Resort
Leer
Lovely Kiss?
Mega Kick
Mega Punch
Quick Attack
Rage
Relic Song?
Retaliate
Round
Scary Face
Scratch (Sword)
Sing
Skull Bash
Slam
Slam (Sword)
Snore
Stomp
Tackle
Take Down
Uproar

Poison:
Dry Skin
Infiltrator
Liquid Ooze?
Poison Point?
Poison Touch?
Sniper
Stench
Sticky Hold

Acid
Acid Armor
Acid Spray
Belch
Block?
Clear Smog
Cross Poison (Sword)
Gastro Acid?
Gunk Shot? (Maybe some item?)
Poison Jab (Sword?)
Poison Sting? (Sword?)
Sludge
Sludge Bomb
Toxic
Toxic Spikes?
Venoshock?

Psychic:
Analytic
Anticipation
Competitive
Forewarn
Inner Focus
Insomnia
Levitate
Magic Bounce?
Magic Guard
Magician
Oblivious
Synchronize
Telepathy
Trace
Wonder Skin

Agility
Ally Switch
Amnesia
Barrier
Calm Mind
Confusion
Cosmic Power?
Dream Eater?
Extrasensory
Future Sight
Gravity?
Guard Split?
Guard Swap?
Heal Block?
Heart Stamp
Heart Swap?
Hypnosis
Imprison
Kinesis
Magic Coat?
Magic Room?
Meditate
Miracle Eye
Power Split?
Power Swap?
Power Trick?
Psybeam
Psychic
Psycho Cut (Sword)
Psyshock
Psywave
Role Play?
Skill Swap?
Stored Power?
Synchronoise
Telekinesis?
Teleport
Trick Room
Wonder Room
Zen Headbutt

Rock:
Battle Armor
Clear Body
Mold Breaker
Overcoat
Rock Head
Sand Force?
Sand Veil?
Sheer Force?
Solid Rock
Sturdy
Weak Armor

Ancient Power
Diamond Storm?
Head Smash
Paleo Wave
Power Gem
Rock Blast?
Rock Polish
Rock Slide
Rock Throw
Rock Tomb
Rock Wrecker?
Smack Down
Stealth Rock?
Stone Edge
Wide Guard?

Steel:
Battle Armor
Clear Body
Filter
Heatproof
Heavy Metal
Iron Barbs?
Light Metal
Magnet Pull
Minus
Overcoat
Plus
Sturdy
Technician
Weak Armor

Autotomize
Bullet Punch
Flash Cannon
Gear Grind?
Heavy Slam
Iron Defense
Iron Head
Magnet Bomb
Metal Burst?
Metal Claw (Sword)
Meteor Mash
Mirror Shot
Steel Wing? (Sword)
Fairy only has 5-9 abilities, and is lacking in the useful moves that won't cost like 20 points department. Might need a buff, or at least something to tide it over until 20/25 points.

Normal has a shitload of STAB moves. Probably not game-breaking, but still.

Poison has only 5-8 abilities, and is even farther behind than Fairy on moves. Probably needs some non-STAB moves or something.

Psychics have tons of support moves. Maybe we can make it so the for each 5 points, you get X support moves, and the list of available ones grows as you put more into it? As it is, Psychics are gonna have huge support potential, especially if they dip into Normal enough to grab Simple.

Rocks have a crappy defensive typing and no support. They might need something else to help them out some. I'm thinking lots of Ground coverage, so they can have the almighty EDGEQUAKE.


Dark- Defense/support, can annoy opponents with Torment and Snarl, also has some good options for tanks such as Payback to gain threat and Foul Play for low Atk builds.

Fairy- Support, but with some offense. Generally best with lots of investment, but you really have to sacrifice other things if you want the really nice stuff (like Friend Guard and Aroma Veil).

Fighting- Offensive. Has lots of damaging options, can also block some attacks but only has situational methods of doing so.

Ghost- Offensive support. Has lots of trickery, such as the ability to burn stuff and Pain Split. Not many offensive options, but Hex is incredibly effective on burned opponents.

Normal- Offense. Has a ton of moves and abilities, but isn't SE on anything. What they hit neutrally they do tons of damage too, though. Usually cheap to invest in, but lots of investment gets you really nice stuff.

Poison- Support maybe??

Psychic- Support, gets a bunch of setup moves as well. Maybe we could give it Baton Pass or such to pass those to somebody else? But yeah just general support.

Rock- Offensive, with spread moves. Not a lot of options, but the ones it has tend to be incredibly effective.

Steel- Defensive, uses a strong defensive type to take hits well, and has some offensive moves too, but nothing really high-powered.


(From ED)
Drawing from Deck Knight's Signature Move proposal here, the following types get weak non-STAB attacking moves at higher point costs:

Dark: Fighting, Ghost, Psychic
Fairy: Grass, Psychic
Fighting: Dark, Ground, Rock
Ghost: Dark, Electric, Ice
Poison: Dark, Fighting, Fire
Psychic: Dark, Electric, Fighting
Rock: Dragon, Ground, Steel
Steel: Ground, Psychic, Rock

Not sure about normal's non-STAB options at higher levels... maybe Dark, Fighting, and Psychic?

As for type costs... how about this:

0-5 Points: Base type, 1 weak STAB attack
10 Points: Handful of weak STAB attacks, weak support options
20 Points: Situational STAB attacks, moderately powerful STAB attacks, more powerful support options
25 Points: High BAP STAB attacks, strong support options
30 Points: Non-STAB attacks, weak support options from another type
 
If this gets through (which I'm looking forward to), my character is definitely going to be fairy-type. By the way, Avnomke's stuff looks good (at least to my untrained eye), but I got some ideas for Fairy and Poison abilities, because Avnomke said they were lacking.
For fairy, Sweet Veil is an obvious option (the only two pokemon to have it are both fairies). Flower Guard and Symbiosis are ones I'd put question marks besides, but both of them are signature abilities of a fairy-type.
As far as additions to the movepool go, you might be right about giving a buff via the addition of additional non-Fairy type moves that fit. Attract seems like it could fit fairy-type, as does play nice and sweet scent. These would also strengthen fairy-type's support aspects.
For poison-type, flavorwise it could make sense to make Immunity and Toxic Boost options. Immunity because the user is so used to working with poisons they've gained an immunity to them via Mithridatism. Toxic Boost because you're relying on poison to empower yourself.

In conclusion, in his "some of my thoughts on said stuff" part of his post, Avnomke identified the problem of not having enough abilities and moves for two specific types, and here are my proposed additions:
Fairy:
Flower Guard?
Sweet Veil
Symbiosis?

Attract
Play Nice
Sweet Scent

Poison:
Immunity
Toxic Boost

It's not much, but I hope it helps. And sorry, but I couldn't think of additional poison-type moves to use.
 

Geodude6

Look at my shiny CT!
It doesn't make much sense for Poison to have Immunity and Toxic Boost as both relate to the user being poisoned, which poison-types are immune to.
 
...In that case, I have zero ideas for poison type. And you're completely right, it doesn't make sense, and I should not have overlooked something so basic.
 
I was considering giving fairy-types some grass coverage, but I like the ideas you gave there too. As far as poison-types, I'm thinking of giving them various support moves such as encore and disable and such. Maybe (costly) access to fire moves? It fits since a lot of toxic stuff is very flammable.

Rock is definitely getting some ground coverage, since it fits them so well. Normal will probably have some of its redundant STAB options removed, and I kinda like the idea of psychics getting baton pass (but with fewer boosting options). Seems like it has potential to be broken. Also Psychics get Stored Power, now I want to make something to abuse it. normal/psychic with simple and oblivious lgi Let's make that not a thing, kay?
 
ok, said i would get a post up in here 2 days ago, so its about time i did it @.@

Anyway first off, I very much like the dark type example given in the OP for typing cost/payout. I think that Typing should be more focused on gaining the actual type, and affecting ability choices much more than it should be about acquiring moves. I think with out significant investment, the moves you get purely from your typing should be bleak, and even with that investment those moves gained should still be lesser than the moves you would be gaining from item choices. I think that coverage options should be used for types that we will have more difficulty getting STAB options in there (Looking at Fairy, Rock, and Ghost here). Fairy I think will probably need a little bit of coverage/Neutral Status moves to get up to par, same for Ghost. Rock I think will be ok for the most part if we stick a couple of Normal defensive moves in there, like harden or protect or so.

Anyway i was going to try and add more, but turns out 3 AM is kicking my ass, so I will try to get another post up later this week.
 
So guys, I was thinking why don't we create the default templates for existing types before we introduce new types and items. This would allow us to see which abilities and moves are needed / not needed for a specific type and would help us perfect (as close as possible) the existing types. This would also allow us to understand what moves or items would be needed for each of the existing types and the new types. Once we decide on this, then we can start the revamp process and can incorporate more new ideas along the way. So a skeleton would be:

1) Discuss on existing types one at a time and see which abilities/moves/items are needed/not needed for that type and then lock that type based on the discussion. This would also end up giving us the default template for that type for beginners. Going forth, more types can be discussed in a bunch to speed the process.
2) Introduce new types, their abilties & moves & items based on the balance that we have in mind from the first discussion.
3) Check over all balance with all the types and introduce or remove abilities/moves/items to finalize the balance aspect.
4) Start the revamp and address existing plot ideas and new plot ideas along the way.
5) Enjoy your adventures ^_^

--------------

Let us start with STEEL / Rock / Normal. Choose one of them and mention what you feel needs to change about that type. If no one posts in a while (may be a week), then I would post here for STEEL.
 
STEEL Type currently:

Steel: Steel STAB; immune to Sandstorm, highly insusceptible to toxic attacks, but can be corroded specifically by Acid and Acid Spray, can be magnetized. Superior senses in high-metal environments like construction sites or factories.

Additional Moves: (Added to the Trainer's Movepool)
Harden
Iron Defense
Iron Head
Metal Burst
Metal Sound

Steel-Accessable Abilities:
Battle Armor (5 Points)
Heatproof (20 Points)
Heavy Metal (10 Points)
Iron Barbs (20 Points)
Light Metal (15 Points)

===============

STEEL type after changes:

5 Points:
Steel STAB; immune to Sandstorm, highly insusceptible to toxic attacks, but can be corroded specifically by Acid and Acid Spray, can be magnetized. Superior senses in high-metal environments like construction sites or factories. (Retained)

Learned Moves (Retained): Harden, Metal Claw [Sword], Metal Sound, Scary Face, Screech, Take Down.
Available Abilities: Hyper Cutter, Battle Armor, Keen Eye, and Weak Armor.

10 Points:
Learned Moves (Retained): Mirror Shot, Iron Defense, Magnet Bomb [Gun], Steel Wing [Sword], Block, Bullet Punch, Autotomize.
Available Abilities: Sturdy, Technician, Minus, Clear Body.

15 Points:
Learned Moves (Retained): Roar, Iron Head, Flash Cannon
Available Abilities: Magnet Pull, Heavy Metal, Overcoat, Light Metal

20 Points:
Learned Moves (Retained): Flash Cannon, Metal Burst, Gear Grind, Heavy Slam, Meteor Mash
Available Abilities: Filter, Heatproof, Iron Barbs, Plus.

=============================================
Example Buils for STEEL Types (at the end)
 
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imo we shouldn't have templates for different types, just some sample builds once it's all put together.
Steel shouldn't get Curse or Defense Curl, Light Metal should be 15 points, Clear Body should be 5 points (kinda crappy ability tbh), one of Plus/Minus should be 10 and the other 20 (+4 special BAP for 5 points?!?!?!), and Battle Armor can probably go to 5 as well.

EDIT:
5:
Fairy-Typing

Cute Charm
Healer

Baby-Doll Eyes
Charm
Disarming Voice

10:
Frisk
Symbiosis
Flower Guard

Draining Kiss
Sweet Kiss
Sweet Scent
Vine Whip

15:
Serene Grace (5 points)
Sweet Veil
Trace

Attract
Crafty Shield
Helping Hand
Magical Leaf
Misty Terrain
Razor Leaf
Sing

20:
Aroma Veil (5 points)
Fairy Aura (10 points)
Pixilate

Geomancy
Grassy Terrain
Moonblast
Play Rough
 
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All right, so it seems that discussion has stalled a bit in here, so I'm going to make an announcement!

We are going to be going on a schedule from here on out. Basically, every week (or two weeks) we'll have a new topic to discuss here. If you have something that you wish to contribute, please discuss it on that week. After every discussion week, those involved in the process will get together and put together what will be in the final Adventure Battles Thread. If you have objections after that, tough! (Well, okay, if it turns out to be exceptionally broken or something we'll be up for suggestions). For the most part, each week will begin on the Sunday, where we'll post the results from the previous week, then we will end discussion on Saturday, where we will work on what was discussed that week.
=========================================================================
Week 1: Typing Roles and Trainer Realism
From now until this Saturday, we should be finalizing what roles each typing should fulfill for each trainer, as well as how much of a break from reality Trainers should be able to get. I give this less than a week because we've basically got everything, but I want to hear from you all before we do it.

Quotes and Proposed Solutions:
Avnomke said:
Dark- Defense/support, can annoy opponents with Torment and Snarl, also has some good options for tanks such as Payback to gain threat and Foul Play for low Atk builds.

Fairy- Support, but with some offense. Generally best with lots of investment, but you really have to sacrifice other things if you want the really nice stuff (like Friend Guard and Aroma Veil).

Fighting- Offensive. Has lots of damaging options, can also block some attacks but only has situational methods of doing so.

Ghost- Offensive support. Has lots of trickery, such as the ability to burn stuff and Pain Split. Not many offensive options, but Hex is incredibly effective on burned opponents.

Normal- Offense. Has a ton of moves and abilities, but isn't SE on anything. What they hit neutrally they do tons of damage too, though. Usually cheap to invest in, but lots of investment gets you really nice stuff.

Poison- Support maybe??

Psychic- Support, gets a bunch of setup moves as well. Maybe we could give it Baton Pass or such to pass those to somebody else? But yeah just general support.

Rock- Offensive, with spread moves. Not a lot of options, but the ones it has tend to be incredibly effective.

Steel- Defensive, uses a strong defensive type to take hits well, and has some offensive moves too, but nothing really high-powered.
Maxim said:
Normal: Offensive Type: This typing is used for brunt, powerful assaults, albeit usually with a cost attached to them the higher you go. Between Adaptability, Scrappy, and Normalize, it's a very high investment yet high reward tier. However, the lack of super effective hits and utility moves hurt quite a bit. (I'd like to make this a Balanced Type, but I don't see that happening)

Fighting: Offensive Type: A low investment attacker, fighting types are quite good at hurting even more than Normal types. While higher tiers allow for useful options (like Aura Sphere), most of the good moves come at 15 points.

Dark: Balanced Type: A balanced tier, full of both attacks and utility. Not much else to say here. (I don't think I want Taunt there, as while flavorful, I want it to be exclusive to tanks and their items)

Psychic: Offensive/Utility type: Basically, a cheap attempt at making a special attacker if you don't want to bother with tools. Can also go mixed. Closest thing to a special attacking type.

Poison: Utility Type: A utility type, usually concerned with statusing the opponent before laying on the hurt with Venoshock at 20 points.

Rock: Defensive/Offensive type: Some powerful moves and a decent defensive typing give Rocks a good advantage against anything, but Solid Rock can only do so much against the Water and Grass attacks.

Ghost: Defensive/Utility Type: A lot like Poison, but trades Poison for Burn and Ghost Curse, and has a more defensive edge. May be hard to balance effectively.

Steel: Defensive Type: Lots of Resistances, but not much power.

Fairy: Unique Type: There's almost nothing here at the first 3 tiers (pretty much just the type at 5 points, some Grass Support at 10 points, some utility at 15 points) But at the end, it is worth it (Geomancy, Fairy Aura, and Moonblast/Dazzling Gleam at 20)
Eternal Drifter said:
"How realistic are we doing this?"

The answer to this question will determine the power scale of humans. At maximum realism, humans are near useless, essentially being targets that can cripple a Pokémon that they are commanding if KOed. The less realistic, the more options open up, but also makes it more likely that trainers become more powerful and useful than the Pokémon.
Questions:
1. How realistic should we make each trainer? About the same a normal human? Capable, but not very powerful (essentially, what we have now)? Or should we make them reasonably strong (like what is generally being proposed)?

2. What role should each type have? A List would be helpful here.

3. What do you think of the currently proposed roles? Do you have any suggestions?

==================================
Tentative Schedule:

(<1 Week) Trainer Realism

(2-3 Weeks) Type Profile Making

(1 Week) Items

(1 Week) Item Creating

(1 Week) Abilities


(1 Week) Adventure Battle Flow, Finalizing, Call for Adventures!

Expected Release Date of Adventure Battles 2.0: June 15/22, 2015
 
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Questions:
1. How realistic should we make each trainer? About the same a normal human? Capable, but not very powerful (essentially, what we have now)? Or should we make them reasonably strong (like what is generally being proposed)?

Normal human. Because if we go into specificity then a bunch of people will want a different things. Like I want my trainer to by a flying fire type, with Jet pack and flamethrower and stuff.

2. What role should each type have? A List would be helpful here.

Normal - Support
Dark - Support, Tricks, Offensive
Fighting - Offensive
Psychic - Tricks, Offensive
Poison - Defensive, Tricks
Rock - Defensive, Support
Ghost - Tricks, Defensive, Support
Steel - Defensive, Support

3. What do you think of the currently proposed roles? Do you have any suggestions?

I like Av and your suggestions and have nothing more to add.

P.S: Looking at the fact that I am putting this up so fast while strained for free time means I want AB to open quickly ^_^
 
I think that having trainers be on the less realistic side of things is a good idea for adv battles. If they are at regular human levels, then everyone will be normal-types with 80/1/1/1/1/60 stats and 0 movepool beyond Tackle and the "double" battles become very lopsided and the npcs in adventure battles will have no reason to target the Pokemon over the squishy, useless trainer. I think trainers should be around as powerful as a C tier Pokemon, because this leads to a balanced team of Pokemon/trainer duo, rather than the trainer hiding behind the Pokemon and doing nothing (which is essentially what regular battles are haha). If adventure battles is trying to promote you fighting alongside your Pokemon, then we should make it so you actually can fight.
 
1. How realistic should we make each trainer? About the same a normal human? Capable, but not very powerful (essentially, what we have now)? Or should we make them reasonably strong (like what is generally being proposed)?

Surprisingly, I think we should make trainers somewhere between capable and reasonably strong. Leethoof provided a good benchmark to aim for, though perhaps a little less powerful (trainers, while more powerful in this incarnation than the previous, should still be weaker than their Pokémon companions unless they use something weak as their partner).

2. What role should each type have? A List would be helpful here.

No need for my input here; I think you have it covered.

3. What do you think of the currently proposed roles? Do you have any suggestions?

For Maxim's proposal, I think that Taunt should be avaliable to those who shell out the max point costs for Dark in addition to those with 'Tank' items, but only at that high cost.
 
1. How realistic should we make each trainer? About the same a normal human? Capable, but not very powerful (essentially, what we have now)? Or should we make them reasonably strong (like what is generally being proposed)?

A: I actually really like the idea of trainers having more of a support role than an offensive one. Like, they can support their mons a lot and don't hit very hard unless they have some incredibly badass item or spend a ton of points in just that AND spend a good amount of EN. And items are something you should have in mind while thinking about trainer strenght: if you want to have powerful items.later on, you might not want to make trainers too strong.
For me, the ideal trainer was AOPS's, with incredible utility, and also one that had skill link + technician that spent most of its points in getting the abilities and a little more attack, and also spent a ton of en when attacking because technician.

2. What role should each type have? A List would be helpful here.

A: maybe tomorrow.

3. What do you think of the currently proposed roles? Do you have any suggestions?

A: maybe tomorrow
 
All right everybody. Thanks for you input for this week! Week 1 has come to a close (though tavok can edit in his stuff if he wants to).

Results: I've taken a look at the various lists we have. Essentially, here's what I think we are looking at. Let me know if you have an issue with this list.

Normal: Balanced (with heavy Offensive leanings)
Fighting: Offensive
Dark: Defense/Support hybrid
Ghost: Offensive/Support hybrid
Poison: Support
Psychic: Support/Offensive hybrid
Rock: Offensive/Defensive hybrid
Steel: Defensive
Fairy: Support

These are far from hard and fast rules, but generally we should be following these as we move into our next phase. For trainer realism...to be fair that was more for discussion, but consensus seems to fall at less realistic than before.
====================================================
Week 2: Type Profile Making

Here's one of the most important parts of our revamp, the type profiles themselves. From here on, you can propose your own type profiles to be distributed to the masses. Whomever comes up with what we think are the best moves for a type will get it, whether they are part of the revamp group or not!

The basics:
Each type is created in different tiers. 5 Points should net you the typing, and not a whole lot else. 10 Points should get you basic stuff to make the type viable. 15 Points should end with a solid unit for that typing. 20 Points is where things get interesting, and strategy defining moves and abilities should fall.

Here's a template for each type. For a more detailed example, see Avnomke's and Gale Wing Srock's posts above.

[HIDE=Type]
[u]5 Points:[/u]

[u]10 Points:[/u]

[u]15 Points:[/u]

[u]20 Points:[/u]

[/HIDE]

Guidelines:
1. In general, use reason here. The humans should still be a fair bit weaker than Pokemon, so please do not put Boomburst in the Normal section.

2. By and large, Abilities should cost at least 5 points, and no more than 10 Points. Exceptions may be made for especially strong or weak abilities, but please shoot for 5 or 10 points in order to make it consistent with General Abilities.

3. This part will last approximately 3 weeks. This is to account for the fact that most Americans have finals soon. The part may end in 2 weeks if there are enough drafts submitted during that time, but this is unlikely, and will be preceded by a warning. If you do not have a draft by the time the 3 weeks are over then, barring a potential extension, your type profile will not be accepted.

With that have fun! I may inquire about possible UC rewards for any accepted profiles, so keep your eye on this thread!
 
I had plenty of free abilities in my original writeups. I honestly don't see the problem with free ones, they're not good abilities, and you're already spending points to get them by way of typing. Often more than the abilities cost in the old system. (Also use my dark writeup in the OP and the fairy writeup further down y/n)
 
To reply to Avnomke, I personally think Abilities should cost at least something, as there were not any free abilities in the original Adventure Battles and I would personally like to keep it that way. Still, if you think Free Abilities are the best, then go right ahead and submit them.

Fairy and Dark look good, at least as a rough draft. I like Dark's movepool in particular as it is generally what I'm looking for in the tiered system: Crap stuff at low levels and really really good stuff at high levels. Do you want me to add them to the official pool of contenders for those types?

Also, Eternal Drifter , care to weigh in on the Free vs. Not Free abilities debate?
 
Free abilities in the old thread: Dry Skin, Early Bird, Gluttony, Hustle, Keen Eye, Moxie, Natural Cure, Reckless, Run Away, Stall, Tangled Feet, Unburden

Some of these are better than others, and there are some other abilities that probably deserve to be free (some of these shouldn't be free either imo)

Also those are serious submissions, yes.
 
Okay. The last time I posted here, I made a fool of myself with the suggestions I had for poison-typing. So now, I shall redeem myself by offering up what is hopefully a much better poison-type template! (And yes, the part about redemption was mostly tongue-in-cheek.)

The main additions I had to poison not in the suggestions as for abilities were Effect Spore, Shield Dust and Gooey. My justifications are that 2 of the 3 FE pokemon that can learn effect spore are poison-type, as are 2 of the 3 FE pokemon that can learn Shield Dust. As for Gooey, it may not be known by a poison-type, but flavor-wise it makes sense for a poison-type to have.

As far as adding to moves goes, I added some grass and bug spore and powder moves. I figured that flavor-wise they made sense, and that they expanded poison-types movepool to something respectable, when compared to the steel and fairy-type suggestions already up.

Hopefully I did a decent jobs tiering the moves and ability by points. Anyways, here it is!

Sword Moves: Poison Sting, Cross Poison, Poison Jab.

5 points:

Poison STAB.

Learned Moves: Acid, Venom Drench, Poison Gas.

Learned Abilities: Liquid Ooze, Sniper.



10 points:

Learned Moves: Block, Acid Armor, Stun Spore, Cotton Spore, Toxic Spikes.

Learned Abilities: Infiltrator, Sticky Hold, Sniper, Shield Dust (5 points), Stench.



15 points:

Learned Moves: Sludge, Clear Smog, Gastro Acid.

Learned Abilities: Effect Spore, Poison Point, Dry Skin (5 points).



20 points: Venoshock, Sludge Bomb, Acid Spray, Toxic, Sleep Powder, Rage Powder, Belch, Powder.

Learned Abilities: Poison Touch.

Update: Edited to follow Avnomke's suggestions below. No changes beyond what he suggested were made.
 
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A few bits of minor critique on your template Shiny Fairymon

First, move most of the stuff you have in 5 points into 15 points please (or possibly 10 points and move a lot of stuff from 10 to 15, 15 is kinda barren right now), specifically everything but Acid and Poison Powder. 5 Points is mainly there for the typing and some very minor moves. Second, for the moves labeled Sword: The sword moves are based on the typing only, you don't need to add them to the tiers, as they are a separate list.
 
Roger that, Maxim! I adjusted things based on your critiques. I also moved a few things from the 15 points tier to the 20 points tier, because I realized that without the sword moves 20 points was kind of barren.

Anyways, thank you for your advice!
 
The poison build seems really strong in general, imo. Changes that I think should happen:

5-point:
+Sniper
+Venom Drench
+Poison Gas
-Stench
-Gooey
-Poison Powder
-Dry Skin

10-point:
+Stench
-Rage Powder
-Sniper
Raise Shield Dust to 5 points

15-point:
-Poison Gas
-Toxic Spikes (redundant)
-Sleep Powder
-Powder
+Dry Skin for 5 points

20-point:
-Venom Drench
-Spore
+Sleep Powder
+Rage Powder
+Belch
+Powder

I mostly just put things with more similar power together.
 
Eh, I may as well throw in my ideas.

5 Points:

Ghost-Typing

Insomnia
Frisk

Astonish
Confuse Ray
Disable
Night Shade
Lick

10 Points:

Infiltrator

Shadow Ball
Shadow Claw
Trick
Will-O-Wisp

15 Points:

Forewarn
Pressure

Hypnosis
Dream Eater
Hex
Shadow Sneak

20 Points:

Cursed Body
Mummy (?)

Destiny Bond (?)
Phantom Force
Taunt


I was also tinkering with a Psychic-Type template, but that one is even less developed >.>
 

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