Metagame np: Stage 1 - Building Steam With a Grain of Salt (Throh and Sneasel BANNED, read post #143)

[Rennyjesus]

I personally think that Musharna's retest could be done after the next tier update, just to see how it's working in the actual metagame and then decide to unban or not... Theorically it looks kinda hard to get passed by a lot of things, but heck... Sometimes theory doesn't adapt in practice...

 

[Choice Banned]

Speaking of tier updates, is there anything likely rising or falling?

 

[MZ]

Speaking of tier updates, is there anything likely rising or falling?

We're definitely gonna lose prinplup. Ironically the only thing in dropping range (unless I missed something) is mushy

 

[WakafLUKEaflame]

This is a cool set that I have been using lately that is basically like a weaker Chatot, however has the special bulk to check things like non-LO Haunter, Poliwrath and Roselia.



Noctowl @ Life Orb
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 192 HP / 252 SpA / 64 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Air Slash
- Hidden Power [Fighting] / Shadow Ball / Heat Wave
- Roost

Basically Noctowl as mentioned above is a weaker Chatot, however has existent bulk so that it can use roost without getting bopped, and has a cool ability in Tinted Lens, which allows it to surprise some mons like Pawniard, Golem, and Carracosta, when you nail them with Hyper Voice. Air Slash is ran so that you can hit Haunter, as well as hitting Poliwrath and Roselia hard. Hidden Power Fighting hits the obvious Probopass switchins, while Shadow Ball can be used to hit Misdreavus hard, having a high chance of 2hko'ing after rocks, guaranteed against offensive Missy. Heat Wave can be ran to 0hko Rotom-F after rocks, while 2hko'ing RP Regice after rocks. Roost is obligatory so that you can check Poliwrath, non-LO Haunter, etc., throughout the match and gives Noctowl much needed staying power. 64 spe ev's (with HP Fighting IV's) outspeeds 56 spe Poliwrath, and the rest is dumped in HP, where you conveniently reach a LO number. More speed ev's can be ran, such as 96 to outrun max spe Modest Regice. Defog can probably be ran on this, but Noctowl really enjoys the coverage in Shadow Ball, HP Fighting, or Heat Wave. Work Up seems like a pretty cool option to be able to break through things like Lickilicky, Grumpig and Hypno, but that's better suited for Chatot.

Long List of Offensive Calcs

252+ SpA Life Orb Tinted Lens Noctowl Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Pawniard: 198-234 (85.7 - 101.2%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (lol)

252+ SpA Life Orb Noctowl Air Slash vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Roselia: 135-164 (44.4 - 53.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Life Orb Noctowl Hidden Power Fighting vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Probopass: 187-224 (61.5 - 73.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Life Orb Noctowl Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Misdreavus: 135-161 (41.6 - 49.6%) -- 85.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Life Orb Noctowl Heat Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-F: 198-234 (82.1 - 97%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Life Orb Noctowl Heat Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Regice: 114-135 (37.8 - 44.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Piloswine, one of Noctowl's bigger obstacles, can be worn down with Stealth Rock and Spikes to the point of being 2hko'd, as this particular Noctowl is great with hazard-stacking teams.

Defensive Calcs

252+ SpA Poliwrath Ice Beam vs. 192 HP / 0 SpD Noctowl: 148-176 (38 - 45.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ SpA Tangela Hidden Power Ice vs. 192 HP / 0 SpD Noctowl: 124-148 (31.8 - 38%) -- 93.8% chance to 3HKO

252+ SpA Roselia Sludge Bomb vs. 192 HP / 0 SpD Noctowl: 139-165 (35.7 - 42.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 SpA Haunter Sludge Bomb vs. 192 HP / 0 SpD Noctowl: 141-166 (36.2 - 42.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ SpA Misdreavus Thunderbolt vs. 192 HP / 0 SpD Noctowl: 168-198 (43.1 - 50.8%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO

 

[EV]

Could someone be a doll and tackle the PU page on the OM hub?
http://www.smogon.com/tiers/om/metagames/pu

It needs a makeover. PM me (or another leader with Site Staff) and I'll update it. :D

 

[Kingler]

i seriously believe that carracosta should be suspected. i'm just gonna repost what i had said and build off of it

holy fucking shit carracosta is so difficult to counter. [insert random cursewords here because lmao this thing is incredibly difficult to deal with]. Its bulk, typing, and offensive STAB combo allows it to literally decimate teams without Poliwrath. I'm honestly stumped as to what can switch into a +2 Adamant Carracosta, survive with reasonable health and KO back easily. I'm not even going to regard the possible Zen Headbutt or Ice Beam (albeit the latter has become highly unnecessary in the current meta) and just a simple set of ss/waterfall/aqua jet/stone edge is incredibly difficult for most offensive teams to counter (you can only put so much offensive pressure and Carracosta easily takes hits from the likes of Rapidash). I mean, the only things not OHKOed at +2 by this set in the A+ and S ranks are Poliwrath and defensive Carracosta (which takes upwards of 70% from +2 LO Ada Stone Edge and we all know that it's quite common to see it in that range). Revenge killers such as Zebstrika (outspeeds even Jolly +2 Costa which is nice) have to be at full health or so if they want to survive +2 LO Aqua Jet.

for those who think i'm exaggerating

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Carracosta Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Zebstrika: 239-282 (82.1 - 96.9%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Carracosta Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Haunter: 308-363 (133.3 - 157.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO (scarf haunter)
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Carracosta Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Raichu: 265-313 (101.5 - 119.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Carracosta Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Rotom-F: 153-183 (63.4 - 75.9%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (scarf rotomf)
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Carracosta Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mr. Mime: 234-277 (105.8 - 125.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO (scarf mime)

It literally OHKOes most of the tier at +2 and isn't incredibly hard to setup on 'mons like Rapidash, Rotom-F locked into ice move, Stoutland locked into normal move (not uncommon b/c it keeps spamming scrappy return), Armaldo, Pawniard, Mightyena, and so on 1v1 (it's often just sac mon -> go to costa and sweep vs. many offensive teams ._.) and keep in mind that it also survives a lot of super effective attacks such as 252+ Piloswine's Earthquake (dies to like 4 LO recoil rounds after but w/e) and Jumpluff's Seed Bomb without the Defense drops. It's an incredibly hard 'mon to truly counter and with its checks/counters taking even slight damage, it straight up destroys them at +2 except for Poli.

also, Poliwrath is very easy to lure/bait with moves such as explosion from Golem so you can break it thusly. tangela honestly isn't really very splashable and a lot of teams would rather have roselia. Supporting a rise to S because damn that thing is powerful.

SS carracosta also is pretty great vs balance/bulky offense/stall as it still rips through a lot of defensive Pokemon and not much on stall OHKOes in return

I forgot entirely to talk about its defensive set, which is a great lead and isn't OHKOed by most common leads, managing to spread Scald burns and Knock Off and set up Stealth Rock reliably. It's a pretty great choice as an SRer for stall/bulky offense. Solid Rock allows it to sponge super effective hits like Golem's Earthquake extremely easily.

it can do a LOT to even defensive checks such as tort, tangela, gourg-XL, machoke, poliwrath (zhb koes both of those cleanly at +2), and defensive costa (can't ohko back either lol). I guess you can run stuff like Scarf Simipour and there are checks to it but honestly Carracosta can just rip through teams so easily. It's not even like u have to be able to set up after eating a hit as carracosta can force stuff like non-Passho Ninetales out and proceed to set up. I don't feel like it's healthy for the tier with just the sheer amount of constraint it puts on teambuilding and not allowing ppl to use too much bulky stuff as they won't be able to pressure costa enough.

I don't really feel like any potential drops will have too much bearing on this post and although it is untimely, I lost my last draft so had to post it later. I'll probably add something onto this opst.

 

[WhiteDMist]

Give it about 2-3 weeks more. If after that you still feel like a Pokemon is suspect worthy, then feel free to nominate a suspect. This includes taking a look at Musharna and Throh. There's no real rush to suspect anything right now after our previous slew of bans, even if the next tier shift doesn't seem to be too game-changing.

 

[WhiteDMist]

Welcome Raiza. to the PU Council!

 

[WhiteDMist]

RIP Haunter. T-T
Later Prinplup I guess.

New np thread coming soon.