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[Online Competition] 3v3 Little Cup (check OP for the giveaway thread)
- Thread starter Theorymon
- Start date
It's just some extra Pokemiles.
In, brb breeding ubers
You forgot Swirlix.
This is all you need
Guys I have some good news. There will be a ladder up soon on PS! of Battle Spot LC. This means that we can test out ideas and teams before the tour date and perfect strategies and work on that threat list Theorymon wanted.
I will reply back here when the ladder is up!
I will reply back here when the ladder is up!
Something to note: Since Eviolite is banned, I expect Fletchling to be a LOT more deadly than normal. Even with 76 Defense EVs, Fletchling will OHKO Scyther with Acrobatics. Because of this, I wonder if a Coba Berry could be a useful item on Scyther. Granted, you don't OHKO Fletchling which is a bummer (though you have a 93% shot if you can fit Stealth Rock in your team), but still, I'm sure a Coba Berry could end up saving Scyther in some clutch situations!
Scyther @ Berry Juice
Ability: Technician
Level: 5
EVs: 196 Atk / 76 SpD / 236 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Aerial Ace
- Knock Off/Pursuit
- U-turn
- Bug Bite/Roost/Pursuit
Probably one of the best Scyther sets we can use, but SubSD could be a very interesting thing.
Hell, I even wonder about Focus Sash. Focus Sash sounds strange because of Scythers bulk, and there may be better users of it in general... but I fully expect a ton of unexpected mons to use Rock-type moves, and I imagine that Scyther surviving their assaults is BAD news for a lot of these Pokemon! I guess Charti Berry could work too.
1) meta is about sneasel, not scyther. scyther isn't even that great since the meta is all about sneasel + swirlix / spritzee (only real sneasel switch ins), fletchling, sturdyjuice, etc. scyther isn't good against those, whereas sneasel beats fucking everything
2) each game will be 5 turns or less, this is the fastest tier ever
3) i don't think you'll see many strats like trick room or tailwind spam b/c the tier is too fast. trick room takes two turns to abuse and in a tier like this two turns can mean two kills. plus, fletchling doesn't really care about trick room and there's hella priority so really i think trick room's kind of useless. plus random sash mons. tr just sucks don't use it
4) if you use trick room, you can only really use spritzee (immune to taunt, but can't suicide so it kind of sucks), porygon (bulky but also can't suicide), litwick / yamask (tr + memento), or pumpkaboo (tr + boom). everything else is kind of aids, but even still, don't use TR.
5) don't worry too much about moody / minimize, there just isn't enough time in the tier to use it. plus, scyther's main stab attack ignores evasion boosts so...
6) weather is really useful, but kind of fucked by fletchling. i honestly see amaura being really useful in this meta, resists flying and has hail to fuck with sturdy and most sashes
7) i don't think abra is worth the slot. it's a 1 for 1 which is kind of stupid in this tier, but i guess it can work in some situations. magnemite is the most annoying sturdy mon
8) ZORUA IS THE MOST THREATENING MON TO SEE IN THE TEAM PREVIEW. it's scary in battle spot normally but in lc battle spot, everything is fucking ohkoed. zorua puts unbelievable pressure even if you never use it. it's just kind of hard to fit it in your team, there isn't much room. scarf is probably best
9) fighting types kind of suck. no eviolite to knock off, and too many birds.
10) sr might actually be kind of useful from the lead, surprisingly. the crazy mons are all weak to sr and if you have to worry about sturdy juice in the back, sr helps you mitigate that. lead sash diglett might be popular for that reason
those are my initial observations, purely theory but i'm pretty confident in my assessment
2) each game will be 5 turns or less, this is the fastest tier ever
3) i don't think you'll see many strats like trick room or tailwind spam b/c the tier is too fast. trick room takes two turns to abuse and in a tier like this two turns can mean two kills. plus, fletchling doesn't really care about trick room and there's hella priority so really i think trick room's kind of useless. plus random sash mons. tr just sucks don't use it
4) if you use trick room, you can only really use spritzee (immune to taunt, but can't suicide so it kind of sucks), porygon (bulky but also can't suicide), litwick / yamask (tr + memento), or pumpkaboo (tr + boom). everything else is kind of aids, but even still, don't use TR.
5) don't worry too much about moody / minimize, there just isn't enough time in the tier to use it. plus, scyther's main stab attack ignores evasion boosts so...
6) weather is really useful, but kind of fucked by fletchling. i honestly see amaura being really useful in this meta, resists flying and has hail to fuck with sturdy and most sashes
7) i don't think abra is worth the slot. it's a 1 for 1 which is kind of stupid in this tier, but i guess it can work in some situations. magnemite is the most annoying sturdy mon
8) ZORUA IS THE MOST THREATENING MON TO SEE IN THE TEAM PREVIEW. it's scary in battle spot normally but in lc battle spot, everything is fucking ohkoed. zorua puts unbelievable pressure even if you never use it. it's just kind of hard to fit it in your team, there isn't much room. scarf is probably best
9) fighting types kind of suck. no eviolite to knock off, and too many birds.
10) sr might actually be kind of useful from the lead, surprisingly. the crazy mons are all weak to sr and if you have to worry about sturdy juice in the back, sr helps you mitigate that. lead sash diglett might be popular for that reason
those are my initial observations, purely theory but i'm pretty confident in my assessment
If you're using Scyther and its item is consumable (aka BJ, Oran Berry, Leichi, Sash idk) then Acrobatics is possibly a better choice than Aerial Ace.
While Aerial Ace does hit very slightly harder while Scyther holds an item, Acrobatics outdamages while itemless, even without the technician boost. Yes, this is considering the weighted factor of multipliers over straight BP increases.
196 Atk Scyther Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 212 HP / 196+ Def Spritzee: 16-19 (59.2 - 70.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
196 Atk Technician Scyther Aerial Ace vs. 212 HP / 196+ Def Spritzee: 13-16 (48.1 - 59.2%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO
I mean it's significantly more.
Other things to consider with Scyther- Adamant still hits 20 speed and gives Scyther 22 Attack. That's a significant damage increase, and Scyther still outspeeds everything except Sneasel (who should be running 23 speed anyways) even though it ties with Elekid, Diglett, and Voltorb. However those three are hardly relevant, being fairly useless (diglett maybe).
Sun is still possible to use. Since it's 3v3 format, with no sleep clause, Tangela doesn't have to worry nearly as much about its sun turns running out and can also put everything to sleep. Also it can survive Fletchling's Acrobatics with fairly minimal investment.
196+ Atk Fletchling Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 156 HP / 0 Def Tangela: 20-26 (80 - 104%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
(Never less than 156 HP though, majority of Fletch rolls are 24 with one 26 in there)
While Aerial Ace does hit very slightly harder while Scyther holds an item, Acrobatics outdamages while itemless, even without the technician boost. Yes, this is considering the weighted factor of multipliers over straight BP increases.
196 Atk Scyther Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 212 HP / 196+ Def Spritzee: 16-19 (59.2 - 70.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
196 Atk Technician Scyther Aerial Ace vs. 212 HP / 196+ Def Spritzee: 13-16 (48.1 - 59.2%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO
I mean it's significantly more.
Other things to consider with Scyther- Adamant still hits 20 speed and gives Scyther 22 Attack. That's a significant damage increase, and Scyther still outspeeds everything except Sneasel (who should be running 23 speed anyways) even though it ties with Elekid, Diglett, and Voltorb. However those three are hardly relevant, being fairly useless (diglett maybe).
Sun is still possible to use. Since it's 3v3 format, with no sleep clause, Tangela doesn't have to worry nearly as much about its sun turns running out and can also put everything to sleep. Also it can survive Fletchling's Acrobatics with fairly minimal investment.
196+ Atk Fletchling Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 156 HP / 0 Def Tangela: 20-26 (80 - 104%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
(Never less than 156 HP though, majority of Fletch rolls are 24 with one 26 in there)
Here's the team I made, it was really solid and after playing a few games there really wasn't anything the team wasn't prepared for. Final version of the team is in the hide tag, then some replays, then some thoughts :] Also I apologize in advance if I say anything really dumb, I main Doubles and play some VGC but almost no LC. I just picked threats that beat other threats, and built the team with a similar process to how I build VGC teams. The "strategy" of the team is break for Fletchinder or Scyther to sweep and always bring Ferroseed. The W/L is something like 7 or 8:1 so its solid. I've never lost a game because the team couldn't handle a threat.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/battlespotsingles-229185910
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/battlespotsingles-229188367
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/battlespotsingles-229202057
Scarf Scyther outspeeds Unburden boosted Swirl and always lives an ice shard from Sneasel, everything it doesn't naturally one shot only needs to take damage from Ferroseed recoil and it will be put in range. Works equally well as a lead as it does a sweeper, but it most commonly does the latter
Swirlix is there to be a swirlix but I have never brought it to a battle because I haven't needed it, it does make predicting what my opp will bring a little easier, and I can support it easily with Memento from Diglett, it just hasn't come in handy yet ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I've got flamethrower to hit opposing Ferroseed but it doesn't OHKO so look out for that
Ferroseed is the MVP of the team, it comes in on many physical threats and puts them easily in range of scyther and fletch, or just outright beats them. Beats swirlix, sneasel, and a whole lot more 1v1. You pretty much need a ferroseed on your team or really strong answers to it.
Diglett is solid for playing against sun. Trap Vulpix, and win with Ferro (unless Hp Fire tangela) and/or Fletch. Thanks to Diglett, Sun turns into from a frightening matchup to a fairly easy one. Another great lead.
Fletchling is responsible for most of my KOs, it forces out big threats like Scyther and Yanma and can just sweep entire teams with SD from lead occasionally. Ferroseed is a great partner because it puts everything in range of Acrobatics after it takes recoil. Fletch is another mon you need on your team and need to heavily prepare for, probably the individually best mon in the meta. I had roost over HP grass initially but roost never came in handy. Stealth rocks are terribad in this meta so having 2 mons weak to rocks is not an issue. Leads or Sweeps.
Meditite is a solid mon, I was lacking a reliable mon to beat overheat Fletch so I've given meditite Coba Berry to survive an Acrobatics and KO back with HJK. The second most expendable member of the team. Meditite also serves as a check to ferroseed and can get valuable chip damage or revenge KOs with Fake Out + BP
The biggest threats in the meta from what I can tell are everything I have on my team (lol) + sneasel + vulpix & tangela + Magnemite + torchic pass (although that's only a theorymon). Archen is OK, but stealth rocks are terrible in this meta given how important and how much momentum you can gain or lose in a single turn. Sun is the only viable weather because Hippo is garbage and loses to grass mons that sun is carrying, and Amaura/Snover are weak and have a lot of common weaknesses.
Scyther @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Technician
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 196 Atk / 36 Def / 236 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Bug Bite
- Aerial Ace
- Brick Break
Swirlix @ Berry Juice
Ability: Unburden
Level: 5
Happiness: 0
EVs: 212 Atk / 68 Def / 204 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Play Rough
- Frustration
- Belly Drum
- Flamethrower
Ferroseed @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Iron Barbs
Level: 5
EVs: 244 HP / 188 Def / 68 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Leech Seed
- Iron Head
- Seed Bomb
- Protect
Fletchling
Ability: Gale Wings
Level: 5
EVs: 76 HP / 200 Atk / 12 Def / 40 SpA / 180 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Acrobatics
- Overheat
- Swords Dance
- Hidden Power [Grass]
Diglett @ Focus Sash
Ability: Arena Trap
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 236 Atk / 236 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Sucker Punch
- Memento
Meditite @ Coba Berry
Ability: Pure Power
Level: 5
EVs: 116 HP / 196 Atk / 196 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Bullet Punch
- High Jump Kick
- Zen Headbutt
Ability: Technician
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 196 Atk / 36 Def / 236 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Bug Bite
- Aerial Ace
- Brick Break
Swirlix @ Berry Juice
Ability: Unburden
Level: 5
Happiness: 0
EVs: 212 Atk / 68 Def / 204 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Play Rough
- Frustration
- Belly Drum
- Flamethrower
Ferroseed @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Iron Barbs
Level: 5
EVs: 244 HP / 188 Def / 68 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Leech Seed
- Iron Head
- Seed Bomb
- Protect
Fletchling
Ability: Gale Wings
Level: 5
EVs: 76 HP / 200 Atk / 12 Def / 40 SpA / 180 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Acrobatics
- Overheat
- Swords Dance
- Hidden Power [Grass]
Diglett @ Focus Sash
Ability: Arena Trap
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 236 Atk / 236 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Sucker Punch
- Memento
Meditite @ Coba Berry
Ability: Pure Power
Level: 5
EVs: 116 HP / 196 Atk / 196 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Bullet Punch
- High Jump Kick
- Zen Headbutt
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/battlespotsingles-229185910
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/battlespotsingles-229188367
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/battlespotsingles-229202057
The biggest threats in the meta from what I can tell are everything I have on my team (lol) + sneasel + vulpix & tangela + Magnemite + torchic pass (although that's only a theorymon). Archen is OK, but stealth rocks are terrible in this meta given how important and how much momentum you can gain or lose in a single turn. Sun is the only viable weather because Hippo is garbage and loses to grass mons that sun is carrying, and Amaura/Snover are weak and have a lot of common weaknesses.
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So my LC experience is literally limited to what I played on Stadium 2 as a kid (<3 rental Abra) but this seems like the perfect opportunity to get into it! It seems like there's a lot to learn, I know EVs/stats/speed tiers are weird at level 5 so I'll be checking that stuff out. Anyone got any advice for a total LC newbie?
I wish I could help you there, but I cant say that I know much about LC myself. As GroudonEmpire suggested, we can just play around with the EV bars in showdown to figure out the stats since it's really weird for level 5. Looking through the Little Cup subforum might also give some ideas but there are major differences between them so a copy/paste team probably won't work as well! The main differences between this format and Smogon LC is item clause which is especially important since we can only get one Eviolite, bring 6 pick 3, and that we get a bunch of pokes unbanned.
This is looking like a really fun format and I look forward to playing it with you guys!
EDIT: lol
This is looking like a really fun format and I look forward to playing it with you guys!
EDIT: lol
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Eviolite is banned ;_;
Evidently that would make the games too drawn-out.
I've played a few games this afternoon, having never played any Battle Spot format before, it was a definite change. But stuff like Scyther, Sneasel, and Swirlix are honestly dominant. Fletchling thrives, as it doesn't need an item and it preys on foes without Eviolite, and putting a Flying resist on your team is pretty much mandatory. The environment for this metagame is basically going to be Ubers vs. Anti-Ubers.
Unfortunately, knowing Little Cup doesn't make you good at this. The only thing that translates is intuition regarding favs which is useful for he completion being Wifi battles. Well, that and recognizing potential threats I guess. But if you have the proper assistance / we actually make a threat list, you shouldn't experience problems by not having Little Cup experience especially move legalities mean nothing in this meta (movesets need to be legal at level 100, not 5). This meta has nothing really similar to current LC.
This interests me so I'm probably going to get involved so I'll try and help bridge any gaps if you ask me.
PS: I honest to fuck can't think of a single reason not to use sneasel. Honestly not a single one.
This interests me so I'm probably going to get involved so I'll try and help bridge any gaps if you ask me.
PS: I honest to fuck can't think of a single reason not to use sneasel. Honestly not a single one.
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I'm interested. I don't know enough about Little Cup since pokemon stadium 2, but this'll be an interesting thing to play.
Any advice on what to use besides the mons banned from the Smogon format? Obviously I will use some of those as well, but not a full team :P
Any advice on what to use besides the mons banned from the Smogon format? Obviously I will use some of those as well, but not a full team :P
Besides the unbanned stuff, Fletchling, Magnemite, Diglett, Archen and certain other Flying checks, Vulpix (with Tangela), and maybe a few other things I'm not thinking of, seem like they would work well in this format.
First instinct (entirely theory, I plan on actually playing during the course of the week) says Fletchling, Amaura, Diglett, Vulpix, Magnemite, Tyrunt, Tirtouga, Zigzagoon (Choice Band >>> Belly Drum), Zorua (Scarf honestly seems really cool since it outruns Sneasel), Chinchou (Probably Scarf since there are no really viable grounds outside of Sand Rush strategies), Abra, Archen, Cottonee, Cranidos (Scarf Mold Breaker), Carvanha, Honedge (Probably Autotomize / Destiny Bond @ Colbur Berry), Houndour (PROBABLY Scarf but I can imagine Tailwind suicides from Fletchling / Cottonee making Life Orb good, Drilbur (Maybe Sandstorm or Scarf Mold Breaker but this might be really bad), Elekid, Froakie (Scarf), Gastly (sash), Larvesta, Makuhita, Scraggy (Thick Fat / Intimidate help them switch into Sneasel)...
That's my initial list of Pokemon worth looking into outside of the Ubers.
That's my initial list of Pokemon worth looking into outside of the Ubers.
That's the participation bonus. No prize is yet listed
Fire and Rock types look strong for this since both threaten Sneasle and Scyther fairly well. Fire moreso due to relevant resistances and advantages on other pokemon, but Rock-Types can take Sneasle and Scyther's hits unless they have a fighting-type coverage move.
Looking forward to this, i may find a use for all those Tyrunts i bred last year :)
Looking forward to this, i may find a use for all those Tyrunts i bred last year :)
I don't think it can have Espeed. I'm pretty sure the only 6th gen event related to it was an Espeed Linoone unfortunately.
I was also thinking that Dwebble might be alright. I'm expecting there to be a sash on most teams, which could be a pain for most setup sweepers. So a shell smash set with rock blast could work as it's not hindered by them. Might not be great idea though since it contends for the expensive single berry juice and there are better mons that want the juice.
Would definitely want to try this, but I am liking the concept of Scarf Growlithe for anti-Sneasle/Scyther tech. Between Intimidate and resistances, it should have a way to safely switch in on both and threaten with fire. The movepool isnt terrible with regards to coverage either.
Woo Genderless Lc mons are free to battle. I feel like running a gen 4 porygon set