NOC Fallout New Vegas NOC [GAME OVER - Wastelanders Win]

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Interim reply to show I am alive - I have been out most of the day and am typing this on my phone so I don't want to type a long message, will be home within 20 minutes to reply to people.

The tl: dr of it will say that people are trying to rationalize their guesses as something more than that when there is no logical backing for it especially considering only Lightwolf has extensively played with me so none of you know how I act and have nothing to make a comparison to.
 
I too would like to try and avoid no lynch if possible.
I don't think I have picked up anything really suspicious, let me try and dig around for more

moi, I was referring to von's post two posts before I voted for you.
moi, can you step forward and answer young Banana's question? I am terribly interested in this.
My vote on Celever will remain until I find something better to do.
 
Voting List: (Lists people who have been voted for and who voted for them)
moi: 2 votes
Serious Bananas, Fatecrashers​
No Lynch: 2 votes
Jalmont, Sunny004​
Celever: 1 vote
Cancerous​
Haunted Diamond: 1 vote
PokeguyNXB​
Jalmont: 1 vote
Haunted Diamond​
vonFiedler: 1 vote
LightWolf​
LightWolf: 1 vote
Spiffy​
 
I will make this very clear at the top of this post, because apparently this is a point of apprehension with everyone here. I assumed that me saying

BT is right in that no lynch should go through but everyone should at least post once?
meant that von's reasoning was right? I further addressed the SAME POINT I AM CURRENTLY MAKING in another post, which apparently you didn't think related enough to it? I don't get it. You selectively are ignoring what I posted. I didn't think it needed further explanation, but I guess I'm sorry if I don't realize that I need to directly quote posts to accurately address them?

I don't see how I ignored it - I addressed that von was right in agreeing with BT? There was nothing more to add.

Vote for me if want to Serious Bananas but your reasoning is as silly as the joking reason I provided for Cancerous.
Amazingly enough, everyone here has moved forward under the assumption that the people who are posting incredibly seriously (which is obviously an entirely subjective metric and subject to one's own biases and predispositions) are the people who have to be good, when common sense argues the opposite point. If the mafia are aware of the stereotypes of past games, without a doubt they are going to act in such a way that they don't fulfill them. Past NOC voting patterns dictate this to be true - of the past 3 NOC games (all of which MISLYNCHED on D1) ~31% of the voters voting against the victim have been mafia (I can post the sample I'm using as well!), which represents 56% of the mafia members involved in these games! That means you're more likely to hit a mafia member by simply voting the voters of the day 1 lynch than you are by randomly voting.

Think about this for a second - it's incredibly likely that the mafia are aware of each other. The Day 1 Lynch is in their favour with how rarely works. They get to vote along with people while causing confusion and havoc. Because of this, the Day 1 Lynch really serves as a cleaning method. Amongst all the bandwagoning, (and especially at higher voting numbers or a higher # of people positing), the mafia are able to easily blend in. If a vote has a large number of people for it, it's because there is a likely a mafia member contained within that voting group, and as such, the person being lynched IS MUCH MORE LIKELY to be clean. This is subject to when the person votes, obviously (as some mafia members will bandwagon along with their teammates getting voted by voting at the end), but it's something to consider.

With myself being good, and with 4 people having posted with regards to their suspicions about me, it INCREASES the probability that I am clean. If we assume the breakdown for the game is 3/11/1, then that leaves 3 mafia, 10 villagers, and the courier unaccounted for, and the more votes/suspicious comments we add, the more likely it is that a mafia member is targeting me. There WILL NEVER be a clean sweep, but the higher the number of voters against a user, the more likely it is they are clean on D1, as the ONLY guaranteed information available is the mafia members TO the other mafia members.

Feel free to use this defense of myself as the "confirmation" of my "scumminess", but I fail to see any other logical course of action in my scenario.
 
Note that the previous post was made under the assumption that the mafia are aware of each other: Cancerous' post made it seem like that was a logical possibility (and again, I don't truly suspect him if that was not made clear enough and will change my vote to who I see fit). I will check other NOC games in full to see if this is the case but the postgames I skimmed over in compiling the voting trends for looking at D1 didn't reveal anything (though no mafia members voted for one another, which leads me to believe this is standard in NOC mafia?)

Feel free to use this assumption to persecute me, I guess? I don't know what to even expect.
 
ok so unless I read it wrong, von quoted your lynch on Cancerous and said "because a townie can't come to the same conclusion? oh wait..."
and that's what people were asking you about. As far as I remember, it had nothing to do with BT's point.

Also, you yourself said that mafia who are aware of past stereotypes will not fulfill them; that means that those who are aware of previous stereotypes for NOC games would likely employ bussing, so I don't really think the point you make there about mafia voting patterns is 100% valid (good research though).
I promise that wasn't sarcasm.
I think some of it is valid though, like the part where the largest wagon will likely have at least one mafia member on it. That's generally a truth on most mislynches.
 
I said no lynch should go through in the sense that we shouldn't be voting for stupid reasons - everything anyone has done is guesswork that they are trying to frame in their own context of rationale to suit their own purposes. In that sense, I was invalidating my previous lynch post on Cancerous, which I assumed to be agreeing with von. It made sense to me in my head so I didn't see reason to further address this except that persecution against me increased.

I'm not sure what you mean by bussing. Is this a term I don't understand?
 

vonFiedler

I Like Chopin
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
Bussing means to throw someone under a bus. You take a mafia partner and lynch them in the hopes that the village will then trust your excellent scum hunting skills.
 
Oh - well it should be clear that there is no logical reason to bus someone. In a game with fewer total members each mafia is vital, the potential gain in trust associated with correctly lynching someone is a terrible tradeoff for losing a third or even half in some cases of your total team...
 
Anyone else think it's extremely counter productive to argue "The mafia usually follows 'x' formula"... you know... in front of the mafia? Doesn't that just give them a blue print of what all exactly would give us information down the line in the future?

To me that just seems like giving them a way to blend in better. And making it more difficult for us to make informed decisions later on. If we're just going to voice out what we are going to personally look for as suspicious actions on day one, we're screwing ourselves down the road.

Obviously if we say that the mafia looks suspicious for not saying anything, the mafia will try to blend in and say something. Along with the rest of us who are trying not to be misidentified with the mafia. Obviously if we say that the mafia doesn't vote for each other the mafia might vote for each other in ways that they know they won't be lynched.

Yeah, I would think that the mafia would be alerted to who is in the mafia with them. And my guess would be that because it's NOC, they would be more favorable to trying to agree to go after one person for "legitimate" reasons such as Moi. But now that we are giving them blue prints to hide and handing them strategy, that just makes us harder on ourselves.
 
How was I giving them a blueprint anymore than the stereotyping that my posting style was giving them a blueprint? We post that publicly yet you don't question that?
 
If you are going to dismiss my argument than equally the arguments being used against me should be dismissed as they are equally based on a publicly available stereotyping framework, at which point we hit back into what I was saying that this is all incredibly inaccurate guesswork.
 
I don't quite understand what your point is moi. Everyone just wanted you to answer a question and you post this huge hyper-defense of yourself. It seems like a huge overreaction to me.

If you are advocating for a no lynch (I think that was the point of your post?) then you gave the perfect reasons TO lynch someone today:
moi said:
Past NOC voting patterns dictate this to be true - of the past 3 NOC games (all of which MISLYNCHED on D1) ~31% of the voters voting against the victim have been mafia (I can post the sample I'm using as well!), which represents 56% of the mafia members involved in these games!
I'll assume that your numbers are correct, as they seem reasonable. If we lynch someone today, we gain SO MUCH more information about voting patterns and play styles, maybe make connections between players that could be scumbuddies, etc.

If we no lynch and choose to wait for solid information, everyone gets off easy and no one is pressured into sharing their thoughts. Since mafia fabricate their opinions, it will be much easier to catch them in a lie if we keep everyone talking. Assuming there even is an information role, they can't reveal themselves too early or they'll probably be hooked every night/killed early on. For all we know, the mafia will randkill our only info role Night 1 and if we no lynched today we'd just be down an inspector and have no voting information.

Will be keeping my vote on LightWolf until he says something.

And whoever is saying "I'll sit back and watch" needs to get their act together. Ullar, PokeguyNXB, Celever come to mind. This is not OC where we can wait for a leader to get results and propose a valid lynch target. Everyone needs to contribute. If you are having trouble finding something to say, read back through the thread and cast a vote on someone, even if it's just to feel them out or ask them a question.

vonFiedler is doing nothing productive and should contribute more. He'll probably say something trolly in response to this.

As of right now I'd be most comfortable lynching Jalmont for wanting to no lynch despite knowing better, or someone like PokeguyNXB or Celever who are clearly reading the thread but having to have their arm twisted to say anything.
 
I am blatantly overreacting because I already addressed the issue and it was ignored - I am allowed to be annoyed at people (as if something that is characteristic of me if any of you have played with me consistently before!)
 
Moi, I'm on your side on this. I think people are over reacting to you. My only point is that I was in your line of thinking too. And that now that your thoughts are out in the open, it gives them a way to hide their votes better.

That make sense? These aren't robots. The mafia should probably be as lost as we are and are not all concretely put together strategically. They probably know who they are and one of them will probably follow the other, while one might be smart enough to act contrary. But now that we're putting that out there, it gives them a better chance to change their behavior early and not get caught.
 
Moi my main problem with you is that you only seem concerned with defending yourself. You haven't done any serious voting in or sharing opinions about other players in awhile. To be fair, over half the game seems to have the same philosophy of avoiding talking about other players.

vonFiedler moi ButteredToast who are the top two players most likely to be mafia in your eyes and why?
 

vonFiedler

I Like Chopin
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
I think exactly nobody is likely to be mafia right now. Which is not to say that I support No Lynch, I don't. But when I catch some tells I'll be the first to bring them up.
 

vonFiedler

I Like Chopin
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
It's always very possible for a few townies to dick each other around while the mafia sits back and does nothing, but I don't think anyone really knows what to do on day 1. We'll be lucky to lynch someone properly all things considered.
 
Yet, in the same sense, aren't you playing in a self preservationist way as well? You are dictating the action in a way to avoid yourself by constantly addressing others in an effort to deflect attention from yourself - by controlling conversation you keep others on the defensive instead of having to address your own issues of trustworthiness (and to the same extent won't answer your own question directly where you post it)

I don't believe I have enough information to make an intelligent decision, which I think I stated in my post, and neither should anyone else, tbh
 
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