np: ORAS UU Stage 3 - New Gods

[Sam]

With the most recent tier shift, UU has lost Alakazam and Hippowdown and gained Gallade, Mandibuzz, and Mamoswine.

For reference, Galladite is still banned from UU.

Please use this thread to discuss the current state of the tier: the new changes, playstyles, threats, underrated sets, etc.

 

[Dot Smith]

Gonna reboot my old M Gallade team with a few Mods see how it works in the meta hopefully it doesn't get banned

 

[Schpoonman]

Galladite was never banned? Fuck me. Well, once again, we're gonna see a super broken Mega introduced the day I work a double. I'm guessing he'll last longer than Pinsirite did (isn't Pinsir already NU or something?), but I doubt he'll see the end of the week. Once that distraction's gone we can get to the real meat: Whether or not Mamoswine is broken. Ice/Ground STAB is pretty nucking futs, and I'm interested in seeing how his brutally powerful Ice Shard (something we haven't had a taste of since Weavile) will shape how offense is played. He'll certainly be keeping stall on its toes.

As I said in the VR thread: Praise the fucking sun Alakazam is gone. Magic Sash is the kind of brainless shit kids who like Prankster Thunder Wave run and it pretty much forced you to run Pursuit on Mega Aero. Speaking of, Mega Aero is something that will be subject to some turbulent usage. On one hand, he keeps you from using Mega Gallade. On the other hand, he is a fantastic check to Mega Gallade.

 

[Serperior for Uber]

Wasn't Galladite banned? :/

 

[Eyan]

Anyway
Hippowdon leaving was seen coming for quite a while considering how it's better in OU than uu, checking so many more threats than here. Alakazam I didn't see it leaving that fast. I knew that it was getting used a lot more in OU but not to this extent. Really happy it's gone though, since it dents like half my teams and I always struggle to break its sash before attempting to sweep unless I have pursuit aero or if my opponent willingly lets it get broken.

Mandibuzz will be an interesting addition, but looking at the top tier threats, it doesn't seem like it really helps against them, unless your opponent is bad enough to set up home claws aero or DD mence on you to get foul played. Depending on EV investment it can help for mixed and scarfed mence though Taunt could help against suicune but that would go to speed creeping for the most part. It will be very valuable as a bulky defogger though, nice support movepool and defenses.

Mamoswine is just going to tear half the tier apart. Rotom-heat and bronzong are 2 things off the top of my head that can take its dual stab well, even then they get bopped by stone edge(should you choose to carry it) and knock off respectively. Life orb mamo does over 50% first hit to physically defensive bronzong :/ so looking to see how this will shake things up.

Gallade...eh not much to say since Galladite is banned, not worth using over other fighting types really.

 

[Sacri']

"Your team was rejected for the following reasons: - Gallade-Mega's item Galladite is banned by UU."
Are you sure about that, Sam ?

 

[feen]

Oh well

 

[Darvin]

Post 310 in this thread seems to indicate it was banned by a 10-1 majority: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/np-uu-stage-1-changes.3522744/page-13

Was a while back, and it promptly rose to OU.

 

[Sam]

It would appear Hikari and I were mistaken. Sorry!

 

[feen]

It would appear Hikari and I were mistaken. Sorry!

Praise the Lord Galladite is banned

 

[nv]

Ok so time for initial thoughts:

Mamoswine: This thing is a big threat. Ground / Ice STAB combo is really good in a tier filled with Ice and Ground weak Pokemon. However, Mamoswine has a ton of checks such as Rotom-H, Entei, and Suicune (as Mamoswine doesn't really need to be running Freeze Dry in UU). Cresselia walls Mamoswine too if no Knock Off and even then, Mamoswine can get Moonlight stalled.

Calc

252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 177-208 (39.8 - 46.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 117-140 (26.3 - 31.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

And without Stone Edge, Rotom-H can wall Mamoswine as well since it is immune to its Ground STAB and resists its Ice STAB (and outspeeds if offensive). Overall, I can see Mamoswine being a big threat, but I do not see it as broken initially.

Mandibuzz: This burd is gonna be the premier Defogger for balance / bulky / stally teams as it has way more bulk than Crobat (although factoring in typing they really are almost the same bulk wise) and it essentially shuts out Gligar's current niche. It has a nice supportive movepool with moves such as Taunt, Whirlwind, Toxic, Iron Defense, etc. with good offensive moves to hit certain threats such as Foul Play and Brave Bird. I can see this thing settling nicely in UU.

Gallade: Move to RU. tl;dr RU now pls!

 

[ChinChinLives]

I feel like Mamo is potentially broken. Monstrous wallbreaker, amazing lead, lures things with stone edge and knock off (Rotom Heat and Porygon-2) and has like half of the offensive checks it should have because of thick fat. I don't really know a reason not to put this on a team lol

 

[Lucipurrr]

I already have my Day 1 team under construction. Needless to say, I'm very excited to have my baby boy Mamoswine. All Hail Meloetta Queen of UU Anti Meta!!!!!!

Hide

Meloetta @ Assault Vest
Ability: Serene Grace
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 56 Atk / 252 SpA / 200 Spe
Naive Nature
- Relic Song
- Close Combat
- Psychic
- Energy Ball

Rotom-Heat @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Overheat
- Volt Switch
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split

Mamoswine @ Life Orb
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Icicle Spear
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard
- Knock Off

Roserade @ Life Orb
Ability: Natural Cure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Toxic Spikes
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Mandibuzz @ Leftovers
Ability: Overcoat
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 200 HP / 124 Def / 136 SpD / 48 Spe
Impish Nature
- Defog
- Foul Play
- Taunt
- Roost

Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 SpD
Calm Nature
- Scald
- Wish
- Protect
- Haze

 

[ChinChinLives]

I already have my Day 1 team under construction. Needless to say, I'm very excited to have my baby boy Mamoswine. All Hail Meloetta Queen of UU Anti Meta!!!!!!

Hide

Meloetta @ Assault Vest
Ability: Serene Grace
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 56 Atk / 252 SpA / 200 Spe
Naive Nature
- Relic Song
- Close Combat
- Psychic
- Energy Ball

Rotom-Heat @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Overheat
- Volt Switch
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split

Mamoswine @ Life Orb
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Icicle Spear
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard
- Knock Off

Roserade @ Life Orb
Ability: Natural Cure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Toxic Spikes
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Mandibuzz @ Leftovers
Ability: Overcoat
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 200 HP / 124 Def / 136 SpD / 48 Spe
Impish Nature
- Defog
- Foul Play
- Taunt
- Roost

Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 SpD
Calm Nature
- Scald
- Wish
- Protect
- Haze

Meoletta set is 11/10

 

[Lucipurrr]

Meoletta set is 11/10

Thanks! I came up with it for NV 's Weelky Poke'Pair up. The initial idea was a Meloetta Anti Meta and Rotom H/ Mamo core. All three of the mons work off VERY well together.

 

[Sean B.]

Ok so time for initial thoughts:

Mandibuzz: This burd is gonna be the premier Defogger for balance / bulky / stally teams as it has way more bulk than Crobat (although factoring in typing they really are almost the same bulk wise) and it essentially shuts out Gligar's current niche. It has a nice supportive movepool with moves such as Taunt, Whirlwind, Toxic, Iron Defense, etc. with good offensive moves to hit certain threats such as Foul Play and Brave Bird. I can see this thing settling nicely in UU.

Not really. Gligar counters fighting types and most volt turners. Mandibuzz does not.

 

[Sleepless]

Hippo wasn't really that good in bulky water tier, especially with gatr but the biggest lost imo in his rise is losing sandDoge :<
Losing Zam is also annoying. Hyper Offense is worth now a shot with one less thing to worry about with a new lead - oblivious sash rocks,endeavor,priority swine.

 

[nv]

Not really. Gligar counters fighting types and most volt turners. Mandibuzz does not.

Calcs

252+ Atk Guts Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Gligar: 72-86 (21.5 - 25.7%) -- 1.3% chance to 4HKO

252+ Atk Guts Heracross Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 219-258 (51.7 - 60.9%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Reckless Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Gligar: 58-69 (17.3 - 20.6%) -- possible 5HKO

252 Atk Reckless Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 172-204 (40.6 - 48.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Gligar: 188-224 (56.2 - 67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mandibuzz: 208-247 (49.1 - 58.3%) -- 65.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Gligar: 58-69 (17.3 - 20.6%) -- possible 5HKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 175-207 (41.3 - 48.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Why Mandibuzz looks to take more from these hits, it isn't as item reliant as Gligar as Gligar loses a ton of bulk without its Eviolite. And Mandibuzz has better natural special bulk over Gligar which allows it to fare better against special attackers. I will agree tho that Gligar can stop VoltTurn, it is a bit of a reminder of the Mega Aggron vs. Mega Steelix argument which just means unless you need a "Mandibuzz that can resist VoltTurn" then Mandibuzz is the better option. Also Mandibuzz can afford to run Flying STAB if it is really needed to nail Fighting-types while Gligar would much rather run its Ground STAB over its Flying STAB.

 

[Sacri']

In my opinion Gligar is still reliable over mandibuzz if the team is really weak to cross. Mandibuzz can't switch in but Gligar can. But overall Mandibuzz outclass it.

 

[YABO]

Gallade moved from OU to UU

Eh, who cares. Gallade itself is pretty mediocre. Assault Vest or Bulk Up could be okay but I highly doubt it will do anything to the metagame.

Alakazam moved from UU to OU

Huge blow and boon to Hyper Offense here. Zam was HO's greatest ally and enemy. Being able to slap on Sash Zam to help deal with Mence, Luc, etc. was so nice and I hate to see it go. Life Orb was also hella good as King UU has shown in UUPL recently. Overall, a solid and interesting mon to play with gone and it makes me just a little sad u_u

Mamoswine moved from OU to UU

As threatening as this will be, base 80 speed is going to let it down in a big way. Stuff like Lucario, Heracross, Entei, and a bunch of others will outspeed and threaten it out with STAB moves. Still a monster and a real pain in the ass to switch into but I think at least for now it's going to struggle if the meta shifts offensively. Ground Ice STAB is gonna be really fun to watch though.

Hippowdon moved from UU to OU

Knew it was happening eventually. Hippowdon was cool but ultimately never that good. The omnipresence of at least 1-2 water types on every team really held him down. Still, hate to see him go as Stoutland is unfortunately going to die with him, RIP you magnificent beast.

Mandibuzz moved from OU to UU

This will be interesting. Mandi is really fat and annoying so I'm not really looking forward to dealing with it. However, since Mandi will likely be the defogger I think it will be really pressured by not being able to switch into the tiers heavy hitters. This will prevent it from Defogging as often as it would like, which could be a slight downside to this carrion bird.

 

[Revelation]

Ooh! I wonder if we'll see more of defensive Mega Blastoise. Since Mamoswine threatens a lot of the other Megas, there may be less opportunity cost in using M-Blastoise.

252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Beedrill: 173-204 (63.8 - 75.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Mega Aerodactyl: 198-234 (63.6 - 75.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Pidgeot: 205-244 (66.5 - 79.2%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 132 HP / 0 Def Mega Ampharos: 408-484 (115.2 - 136.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Blastoise: 136-161 (37.5 - 44.4%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

0 SpA Mega Blastoise Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mamoswine: 338-398 (94.1 - 110.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Mega Launcher Mega Blastoise Water Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mamoswine: 380-450 (105.8 - 125.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Mega Blastosie looks like a decent way to handle LO Mamoswine. Plus it has Rapid Spin and Dark Pulse (to handle spin blockers) I think I'll try it out.

 

[Chronobreak]

I have to agree with YABO, mamoswine doesn't appear that broken on paper. On the other thread, there was also a pretty big list of walls that take a hit or several from mamo, mostly things that were neutral to it STABS like cress, p2, and umby. But I think the biggest thing about mamo is that it gives us another mega pidge and aero check in STAB LO Ice shard, which I feel the tier could always use more of.

 

[Lucipurrr]

I have to agree with YABO, mamoswine doesn't appear that broken on paper. On the other thread, there was also a pretty big list of walls that take a hit or several from mamo, mostly things that were neutral to it STABS like cress, p2, and umby. But I think the biggest thing about mamo is that it gives us another mega pidge and aero check in STAB LO Ice shard, which I feel the tier could always use more of.

I noticed when doing my RMT that Mamo's high atk and STAB is what makes him great. He loses out to a lot of fighting spam, things like Meinshao, Machamp, Low kick scarf Krook, ect.

 

[Patrick1088]

Hippo and Zam are gone. Hippo I'm not really too phazed by to be honest, but Sand was gaining in popularity. Zam is a mixed bag though. It's Sash set is pretty cool as a premier RK, but it was pretty frail otherwise and too many faster foes threatened it out; M-Aero, M-Beedrill, M-Absol, Doublade and Entei (priority on the last three).

But, with the new drops...

Mamo and Mandi are going to be fun to use! Mamo is going to be a top tier mon IMO, but it may run into 4MSS; SR, Earthquake, Ice Shard, Icicle Crash, Knock Off, Freeze Dry (Suicune and Swampy mostly). It's speed tier is OK, but runs just short of Hera, Lucario, Mienshao, Jolly Feraligatr (if running Adamant), etc.. Defensive wise, we do have some decent checks; Jellicent, Suicune and Def Swampy are all decent checks that just have to watch out for Freeze Dry (which actually 2HKOs not invested Swampy). Very interesting overall! I'm excited to try it out!

 

[Skankovich]

I think people are wrong in comparing mandibuzz to crobat- its real competition is bulk mence, who maintains its fighting and bug resists while also having a very handy fire resist and being able to defog. Foul play is a big plus, as well as being able to deal with mence itself, but otherwise I feel I'd prefer to use mence as a defogger or umbreon in a similar defensive role.