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Metagame NP: RU Stage 8: Jam (Turn It Up)
- Thread starter Molk
- Start date
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webs could be cool but are a let-down.
I'll answer this by saying mega steelix is basically the primal groudon of RU. It has impressive offensive and defensive capabilities and has some good utility in rocks and typing. Plus there's basically almost no reason not to use it since adding it to you're team will make it better because it does so much for one mon. It also has little to no opportunity cost since we only have 6 megas and using it over them isn't too much a downside since mega steelix is pretty much the best mega in the tier rn.
Thanks, but I already found out some time ago. It's definitely an impressive force, though, I absolutely agree with what you've stated.
Damn this thread needs more good posts. Rather than speculating on what could potentially drop RU I would rather focus on the current meta, recently I discovered a very effective yet unseen Tyrantrum set that I can now unveil..
Tyrantrum @ Liechi Berry
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 12 HP / 248 Atk / 248 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Rock Polish
- Head Smash
- Earthquake
The issue that DD Tyrantrum has is that it's pretty difficult to set up, and even if you do manage to get that free turn there a many common Choice Scarf users such as Durant and Rotom-C that can all too easily come in and revenge kill it. I would put it in the same boat as Hone Claws Durant, in theory it sounds great but in reality there is almost always something in the back waiting to stop your sweep.
Rock Polish obviously solves this problem and RP itself is in no way an innovative set but it often left me wishing it had just a little more power. The great thing about this set is that you get the best of both worlds, using that one free turn to RP lets you outpace pretty much everything relevant and then you also have the option to sub into Liechi range if you want a little more oomph.
The EV's let Tyrantrum outpace Adamant Scarf Durant along with other rare base 95 Scarfers after a Rock Polish. If you're really worried about uncommon stuff such as Jolly Scarf Durant or Timid Scarf Delphox (lol) you can always run a Jolly nature and max Speed to get the jump on them. Priority is definitely one thing that needs be removed before you attempt to get into Liechi range with the main concerns being Ice Shard and Mach Punch from Abomasnow and Hitmonlee respectively.
Tyrantrum @ Liechi Berry
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 12 HP / 248 Atk / 248 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Rock Polish
- Head Smash
- Earthquake
The issue that DD Tyrantrum has is that it's pretty difficult to set up, and even if you do manage to get that free turn there a many common Choice Scarf users such as Durant and Rotom-C that can all too easily come in and revenge kill it. I would put it in the same boat as Hone Claws Durant, in theory it sounds great but in reality there is almost always something in the back waiting to stop your sweep.
Rock Polish obviously solves this problem and RP itself is in no way an innovative set but it often left me wishing it had just a little more power. The great thing about this set is that you get the best of both worlds, using that one free turn to RP lets you outpace pretty much everything relevant and then you also have the option to sub into Liechi range if you want a little more oomph.
The EV's let Tyrantrum outpace Adamant Scarf Durant along with other rare base 95 Scarfers after a Rock Polish. If you're really worried about uncommon stuff such as Jolly Scarf Durant or Timid Scarf Delphox (lol) you can always run a Jolly nature and max Speed to get the jump on them. Priority is definitely one thing that needs be removed before you attempt to get into Liechi range with the main concerns being Ice Shard and Mach Punch from Abomasnow and Hitmonlee respectively.
Slurpuff @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 100 HP / 232 SpA / 176 Spe
Modest Nature
- Calm Mind
- Cotton Guard
- Draining Kiss
- Flamethrower
very fun mon to use. it's a hell of a lot sturdier than the BD set, and finds it much easier to set up (and is still an ace sweeper). the EVs let it outrun scarf rotom-c and flamethrower it before you get tricked (after unburden ofc), while the satk gets you the 2HKO at +1 on max sdef mega steelix, the ohko on doublade after a spike, the ohko on AV escavalier, cobalion and scarf rotom-c after SR, and the ohko on tryrantrum without hazards. rest are dumped into hp for an even number, and prevent the 2hko from sdef mega steelix heavy slam after a cotton guard. the evs are super super flexible though, you can run enough to outspeed scarf meloetta (although it takes a few boosts to take it out anyway), or more bulk to be able to set up on more specific attacks, but these were sufficient for the team i used it on. the combination of CG and CM offer you so many setup opportunities, although its obviously easier to set up on physical attackers.
i partnered it up with lure mega audino with surf and psychic, as the fairy/fire combination is resisted by qwilfish (if it lacks taunt and twave you can set up on it, but they generally carry at least one of these) and fire-types, which are keen to switch in on mega audino. a surf from audino onto mega steelix also lets me ko it far more easily with surpuff without saccing a lot of health to heavy slam.
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looks sorta cool. what kind of stuff can it set up on? it seems like you're pretty deadly vs offense after you boost and pop your sitrus if you can get the double boost but a lot of things either power through it (especially after hazards) pre boost or can still hit hard after a single boost. stall is bad but all you have to prevent getting statused against it is the threat of sub. so idk. it also doesn't hit very hard. but i could see it being super scary lategame. just, the lack of status blocking seems eh.
Scrafty moved from UU to RU
Kingdra moved from UU to RU
Flygon moved from UU to RU
Heliolisk moved from RU to UU
Slurpuff moved from RU to UU
Abomasnow moved from RU to UU
Doublade moved from RU to UU
Cresselia moved from RU to UU
Slowking moved from RU to UU
Noivern moved from UU to RU
Whimsicott moved from RU to UU
this tier just completely changed :o
Kingdra moved from UU to RU
Flygon moved from UU to RU
Heliolisk moved from RU to UU
Slurpuff moved from RU to UU
Abomasnow moved from RU to UU
Doublade moved from RU to UU
Cresselia moved from RU to UU
Slowking moved from RU to UU
Noivern moved from UU to RU
Whimsicott moved from RU to UU
this tier just completely changed :o
Scrafty moved from UU to RU
Noivern moved from UU to RU
Kingdra moved from UU to RU
Flygon moved from UU to RU
Noivern moved from UU to RU
Kingdra moved from UU to RU
Flygon moved from UU to RU
Heliolisk moved from RU to UU
Slurpuff moved from RU to UU
Abomasnow moved from RU to UU
Doublade moved from RU to UU
Cresselia moved from RU to UU
Slowking moved from RU to UU
Whimsicott moved from RU to UU
Slurpuff moved from RU to UU
Abomasnow moved from RU to UU
Doublade moved from RU to UU
Cresselia moved from RU to UU
Slowking moved from RU to UU
Whimsicott moved from RU to UU
Fletchinder moved from RU to NU
Magneton moved from RU to NU
Pinsir moved from RU to NU
Kabutops moved from RU to NU
Magneton moved from RU to NU
Pinsir moved from RU to NU
Kabutops moved from RU to NU
Camerupt moved from NU to RU
Seismitoad moved from NU to RU
Sigilyph moved from BL3 to RU
Seismitoad moved from NU to RU
Sigilyph moved from BL3 to RU
So this is undoubtedly the largest shake up this tier has ever seen, Molk and I will probably come out with a new NP thread tomorrow cause this meta game shift is insane. In the mean time feel free to use this thread to discuss the drops, the rises, why things moved to RU from NU, and why things moved down from RU to NU. LGI guys n_n
edit: I ain't even mad @ chan anymore, that shit is too funny.
tehy
Banned deucer.
shit just got real and i am pumped
some words
Scrafty moved from UU to RU
i really dk about this 1, it could be an effective sweeper in spots and maybe a bulky attacker, or Aromatisse might eternally cockblock it. Regardless though, offense doesn't have an excellent answer after a DD, Scarf Sawk or the like might become prevalent and/or necessary, Scarf lee probably ges more usage as does scarf brav. What does offense really have for this for the most part, though? It's bulky enough that 'offensive pressure' isn't just a catchall, and it can hit scarfers with knock off too. Moxie also helps.
Noivern moved from UU to RU
this is a beast, offense cries, and so does stall with TrickSpecs or TauntRoost and strong attacks. Is it too good for RU? maybe
Kingdra moved from UU to RU
quickban
Flygon moved from UU to RU
strong, offensive sets are solid, defensive sets with defog are solid, i might be using defensive torterra already and this is a strong incentive to do so with possible Band, even just Scarf. What actually counters this? Togetic basically (until Stone Edge fourth slot) or bronzong (fire punch fourth slot)?
Heliolisk moved from RU to UU
megalix is happy since there's no more insane coverage electrics to ruin its fun. as are other grounds. the most dangerous volt switcher has left the building, and bulky waters can scald freely without risking anything
Slurpuff moved from RU to UU
thank god, this nigga made you run such a small pool of counters. and now, those counters aren't mandatory, i guess
Abomasnow moved from RU to UU
same
Doublade moved from RU to UU
all hands on deck
musketeers runnin this shit
Cresselia moved from RU to UU
MY SETUP BAIT YOU bASTARDS WHY
now who will i defog, heal bell, wishpass, and SR on ? Dx
also doesn't help with musketeer dominance at all
Slowking moved from RU to UU
the cobalt stallion is ready to ride or die.
Whimsicott moved from RU to UU
i guess. this is too bad because whimsi kicks ass, prankster encore rewards the real.
some words
Scrafty moved from UU to RU
i really dk about this 1, it could be an effective sweeper in spots and maybe a bulky attacker, or Aromatisse might eternally cockblock it. Regardless though, offense doesn't have an excellent answer after a DD, Scarf Sawk or the like might become prevalent and/or necessary, Scarf lee probably ges more usage as does scarf brav. What does offense really have for this for the most part, though? It's bulky enough that 'offensive pressure' isn't just a catchall, and it can hit scarfers with knock off too. Moxie also helps.
Noivern moved from UU to RU
this is a beast, offense cries, and so does stall with TrickSpecs or TauntRoost and strong attacks. Is it too good for RU? maybe
Kingdra moved from UU to RU
quickban
Flygon moved from UU to RU
strong, offensive sets are solid, defensive sets with defog are solid, i might be using defensive torterra already and this is a strong incentive to do so with possible Band, even just Scarf. What actually counters this? Togetic basically (until Stone Edge fourth slot) or bronzong (fire punch fourth slot)?
Heliolisk moved from RU to UU
megalix is happy since there's no more insane coverage electrics to ruin its fun. as are other grounds. the most dangerous volt switcher has left the building, and bulky waters can scald freely without risking anything
Slurpuff moved from RU to UU
thank god, this nigga made you run such a small pool of counters. and now, those counters aren't mandatory, i guess
Abomasnow moved from RU to UU
same
Doublade moved from RU to UU
all hands on deck
musketeers runnin this shit
Cresselia moved from RU to UU
MY SETUP BAIT YOU bASTARDS WHY
now who will i defog, heal bell, wishpass, and SR on ? Dx
also doesn't help with musketeer dominance at all
Slowking moved from RU to UU
the cobalt stallion is ready to ride or die.
Whimsicott moved from RU to UU
i guess. this is too bad because whimsi kicks ass, prankster encore rewards the real.
So quick things for mons that will most likely rise because of the changes.
Delphox - Thanks to the changes, Delphox now has more space to be more relevant because of the lack of good Psychic-Types thanks to Slowking and Cresselia leaving. Also the tier is in dire need for another great Special Fire-Type ever since Moltres left so I expect more Delphox users in the future despite it being ridden with Dark-Types.
Reuniclus & Meloetta - I'm bunching these two together as they are the only relevant Psychic-Types in the tier now. Reuniclus now stands unapposed as CM King while Meloetta loves seeing Slowking and Heliolisk gone.
Mega Audino - Don't sleep on this one. Audino now seems very attractive to walling Flygon, Kingdra, and Noivern. With it's sheer girth being able to wall these very powerful threats, Audino should see a rise in usage.
Cobalion - Cobalion absolutely LOVES this update. Every single god damn rise has bedriddled Cobalion with problems from the get go, and now, Cobalion has the perfect tier to stay in. Having good synergy with the new drops, being a good check towards scrafty, and already having a massive following in RU is going to make Cobalion a competitor for S-Rank.
Jellicent - Another sleeper. Sorta same story with Cobalion, a lot of the rises gave Jellicent little to no relevant use in the tier. Spinblocker - Doublade. Special Wall - Slowking / Cresselia. Now, Jellicent has more wiggle room to carve a niche as a relevant special wall. Very interesting in seeing this thing play out.
Delphox - Thanks to the changes, Delphox now has more space to be more relevant because of the lack of good Psychic-Types thanks to Slowking and Cresselia leaving. Also the tier is in dire need for another great Special Fire-Type ever since Moltres left so I expect more Delphox users in the future despite it being ridden with Dark-Types.
Reuniclus & Meloetta - I'm bunching these two together as they are the only relevant Psychic-Types in the tier now. Reuniclus now stands unapposed as CM King while Meloetta loves seeing Slowking and Heliolisk gone.
Mega Audino - Don't sleep on this one. Audino now seems very attractive to walling Flygon, Kingdra, and Noivern. With it's sheer girth being able to wall these very powerful threats, Audino should see a rise in usage.
Cobalion - Cobalion absolutely LOVES this update. Every single god damn rise has bedriddled Cobalion with problems from the get go, and now, Cobalion has the perfect tier to stay in. Having good synergy with the new drops, being a good check towards scrafty, and already having a massive following in RU is going to make Cobalion a competitor for S-Rank.
Jellicent - Another sleeper. Sorta same story with Cobalion, a lot of the rises gave Jellicent little to no relevant use in the tier. Spinblocker - Doublade. Special Wall - Slowking / Cresselia. Now, Jellicent has more wiggle room to carve a niche as a relevant special wall. Very interesting in seeing this thing play out.
Holy shit practically everything that made me hate RU is gone (except double01 hehe) and we get a bunch of super cool new stuff. An actual reason the play the tier!!!
HypnoEmpire
Yokatta...
I can see Rain being really big, at least while Kingdra is in the tier. Omastar and Kingdra are hella powerful under the rain and can just demolish each others checks and counters with Specs. You could also go with Noivern and get that perfectly accurate Hurricane to smack Tangrowth and Amoonguss.
Also really hyped about Flygon, it looks to be an amazing hazard remover, which is something that has been kinda lacking since Gligar left. Really excited to play this new RU.
Also really hyped about Flygon, it looks to be an amazing hazard remover, which is something that has been kinda lacking since Gligar left. Really excited to play this new RU.
All these drops fuck up Stunfisk wtf man :[
But yeah, Flygon and Scrafty seem like great additions to the tier, but Kingdra and Noivern seem like too much. Kingdra has many viable sets, to RD sweeper to DD to Mixed, like nothing can switch in safely, except for something weird like Ferroseed, and even then, it's not like that it is enjoying a Rain boosted Hydro. And Noivern has an unhealthy combo of high speed, high powered moves packed by LO or Specs, and has Trick to fuck over walls like Reuniclus and Mola.
But yeah, Flygon and Scrafty seem like great additions to the tier, but Kingdra and Noivern seem like too much. Kingdra has many viable sets, to RD sweeper to DD to Mixed, like nothing can switch in safely, except for something weird like Ferroseed, and even then, it's not like that it is enjoying a Rain boosted Hydro. And Noivern has an unhealthy combo of high speed, high powered moves packed by LO or Specs, and has Trick to fuck over walls like Reuniclus and Mola.
Say hello to your new NFE gods. Togetic and Sneasel pop all the drops (okay Sneasel doesn't actually pop Scrafty but fuck Scrafty). These two were already kind of good, but now they are the epitome of anti-meta.
Some underrated mons I think will get more use.
Spiritomb - With Doublade gone, we don't really have many other choices for offensive ghost, not like we need one or like it's even a useful role rn with Flygon being the big hazard removal, but he can fill the niche and makes fighting spam manageable if/when you seen it.
Medicham/Hitmonlee - He can high jump kick all over the place now. Fighting spam in general is good but I think it's notable that these two can actually run band sets pretty easily now.
Cradily - He's a cool guy and he checks some Kingdra and most Noivern sets. :)
Piloswine - Beats flygon who i think will be The defogger to look out for, plus he still beats most other defog mons, checks Noivern, is cute and adorable.
Fletch - He dropped because he wasn't needed to check anything, now strong priority is really nice and he brings it. Really needs an SD to do much of anything but eh. Endure Liechi gets kills after rocks which could be useful.
Glalie - Not really underrated but 2 mons that gave him problems are gone AND he lost his big competition in Abomasnow.
Bronzong - idk he seems legit and I've seen a lot today. no idea what he's doing (heatproof messes with noivern for sure though)
Jolteon - Doesn't have much competition anymore and outspeeds Noivern. Pretty cool even if it still can't switch in anything.
Spiritomb - With Doublade gone, we don't really have many other choices for offensive ghost, not like we need one or like it's even a useful role rn with Flygon being the big hazard removal, but he can fill the niche and makes fighting spam manageable if/when you seen it.
Medicham/Hitmonlee - He can high jump kick all over the place now. Fighting spam in general is good but I think it's notable that these two can actually run band sets pretty easily now.
Cradily - He's a cool guy and he checks some Kingdra and most Noivern sets. :)
Piloswine - Beats flygon who i think will be The defogger to look out for, plus he still beats most other defog mons, checks Noivern, is cute and adorable.
Fletch - He dropped because he wasn't needed to check anything, now strong priority is really nice and he brings it. Really needs an SD to do much of anything but eh. Endure Liechi gets kills after rocks which could be useful.
Glalie - Not really underrated but 2 mons that gave him problems are gone AND he lost his big competition in Abomasnow.
Bronzong - idk he seems legit and I've seen a lot today. no idea what he's doing (heatproof messes with noivern for sure though)
Jolteon - Doesn't have much competition anymore and outspeeds Noivern. Pretty cool even if it still can't switch in anything.
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I cant wait for llamas np
Did anyone have good experience with Flygon as a defensive defogger?
There is always a moment I wish I had that centain move and it always ends up being set up forder to things like Fletchinder or Togetic.
There is always a moment I wish I had that centain move and it always ends up being set up forder to things like Fletchinder or Togetic.
" ALL THE NEW THREATS I'M GOING TO HARD CHECK/COUNTER, EVERYONE WILL RESPECT & PLAY ME " Togetic 2015
Cobalion @ Choice Band
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Iron Head
- Zen Headbutt
- Volt Switch
I've been speculating about this thing since yesterday or the day before, thinking it would be a decent "wallbreaker" that's not slow as shit. With Doublade, Cresselia, and Slowking gone, this thing can spam Close Combat to hell and back; and the things that resist Close Combat (hello Togetic) get popped by Iron Head. Zen Headbutt is mostly coverage against Amoonguss and stuff, while Volt Switch gets it to keep a bit of momentum. This doesn't exactly hit as hard as specs Meloetta or banded Escavalier or anything, but Close Combat has a high bp so it will hit decently hard, and coupled with its speed and some hazards, it's really great against offensive and defensive teams alike.
This is still just me theorymonning tho, I only used this thing in 2 matches so far, but I'm excited as shit about it.
I have no idea why i would use this over regular SD Cobalion who beats everything this set is supposed to (outside of like Virizion or opposing Cobalion unboosted). It isn't even that good of a wallbreaker and is weaker than regular Choice Scarf Emboar which is also faster and has more efficient coverage imo.
Cobalion @ Choice Band
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Iron Head
- Zen Headbutt
- Volt Switch
I've been speculating about this thing since yesterday or the day before, thinking it would be a decent "wallbreaker" that's not slow as shit. With Doublade, Cresselia, and Slowking gone, this thing can spam Close Combat to hell and back; and the things that resist Close Combat (hello Togetic) get popped by Iron Head. Zen Headbutt is mostly coverage against Amoonguss and stuff, while Volt Switch gets it to keep a bit of momentum. This doesn't exactly hit as hard as specs Meloetta or banded Escavalier or anything, but Close Combat has a high bp so it will hit decently hard, and coupled with its speed and some hazards, it's really great against offensive and defensive teams alike.
This is still just me theorymonning tho, I only used this thing in 2 matches so far, but I'm excited as shit about it.
Cobalion however is quite good at the moment and Substitute + Swords Dance beats a lot of balanced teams alone (and Amoonguss without prediction you need and without locking yourself into a 80 non STAB Psychic-type Attack which is overly terrible in my opinion).
Also
252 Atk Choice Band Cobalion Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Reuniclus: 132-156 (31.1 - 36.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
Togetic @ Eviolite
Ability: Super Luck
EVs: 248 HP / 88 Def / 60 SpA / 112 SpD
Bold Nature
- Dazzling Gleam
- Roost
- Defog
- Flamethrower/whatever
so uh togetic is hype right now so i might as well share this cool spread. evs let you like a dd scraftys poison jab at +1, and ohko back with dazzling gleam. also avoids the ohko from steelix's heavy slam after rocks. speed creeps to outpace eelektross with a negative nature, and the rest in put into special bulk. heres a cool wall of calcs that prove next to nothing
+1 252 Atk Scrafty Poison Jab vs. 248 HP / 88+ Def Eviolite Togetic: 128-152 (40.8 - 48.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
60 SpA Togetic Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Scrafty: 276-328 (101.8 - 121%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Flygon Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 88+ Def Eviolite Togetic: 114-136 (36.4 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Noivern Hurricane vs. 248 HP / 112 SpD Eviolite Togetic: 127-150 (40.5 - 47.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Kingdra Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 112 SpD Eviolite Togetic: 93-109 (29.7 - 34.8%) -- 10.9% chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA Kingdra Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 112 SpD Eviolite Togetic in Rain: 138-163 (44 - 52%) -- 14.8% chance to 2HKO
60 SpA Togetic Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Scrafty: 276-328 (101.8 - 121%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Flygon Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 88+ Def Eviolite Togetic: 114-136 (36.4 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Noivern Hurricane vs. 248 HP / 112 SpD Eviolite Togetic: 127-150 (40.5 - 47.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Kingdra Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 112 SpD Eviolite Togetic: 93-109 (29.7 - 34.8%) -- 10.9% chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA Kingdra Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 112 SpD Eviolite Togetic in Rain: 138-163 (44 - 52%) -- 14.8% chance to 2HKO
edit: writing this has made me realize that togetic is really overhyped haha. it needs to be at full health to check/counter anything and its rarely going to be at that considering its weakness to rocks and lack of passive recovery. still better than it was before the tier shifts
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