NOC Fallout New Vegas NOC [GAME OVER - Wastelanders Win]

[vonFiedler]

8:58 PM

It's always very possible for a few townies to dick each other around while the mafia sits back and does nothing, but I don't think anyone really knows what to do on day 1. We'll be lucky to lynch someone properly all things considered.

9:01 PM

Yet, in the same sense, aren't you playing in a self preservationist way as well? You are dictating the action in a way to avoid yourself by constantly addressing others in an effort to deflect attention from yourself - by controlling conversation you keep others on the defensive instead of having to address your own issues of trustworthiness (and to the same extent won't answer your own question directly where you post it)

 

[More Cowbell]

Vote count time? Vote count time.

Celever (2): Cancerous, Spiffy, Fatecrashers, Spiffy, Spiffy
moi (2): Ullar, Serious Bananas, Fatecrashers, vonFiedler
Jalmont (1): Serious Bananas, Haunted Diamond
No Lynch (1): Jalmont, sunny004
Cancerous (1): moi
Haunted Diamond (1): PokeguyNXB
LightWolf (0): Spiffy, sunny004
Spiffy (0): Celever
vonFiedler (0): LightWolf
Serious Bananas (0): Haunted Diamond
PokeguyNXB (0): Spiffy
Norden (0): Celever
sunny004 (0): Celever
Fatecrashers, ButteredToast, rssp1 (0):

Let me know if I missed anything.

 

[moi]

woah there, it's almost like I was typing that in response to what Spiffy had previously said.

 

[moi]

also note - I had STARTED talking way before then with a massive post in defense of myself. If you think that that post you quoted was in response to you, you're drastically grasping for straws.

 

[moi]

Moi my main problem with you is that you only seem concerned with defending yourself. You haven't done any serious voting in or sharing opinions about other players in awhile. To be fair, over half the game seems to have the same philosophy of avoiding talking about other players.

vonFiedler moi ButteredToast who are the top two players most likely to be mafia in your eyes and why?

Yet, in the same sense, aren't you playing in a self preservationist way as well? You are dictating the action in a way to avoid yourself by constantly addressing others in an effort to deflect attention from yourself - by controlling conversation you keep others on the defensive instead of having to address your own issues of trustworthiness (and to the same extent won't answer your own question directly where you post it)

I don't believe I have enough information to make an intelligent decision, which I think I stated in my post, and neither should anyone else, tbh

the actual post my post was in response to, which you apparently missed

 

[vonFiedler]

You've spun your argument against me into something entirely different than it was before where you now claim it to be about talking, when there was no reference to that in any of your earlier posts.

Post #102

Looking for tells is good, but forecasting them?

Post #106

You just keep jumping in very quickly saying what the mafia will do rather than calling people out on acting like mafia after they do so. Depending on whether mafia can speak during the day, this could have an added benefit.

Post #120

On the other hand, please don't insult my methods just because I think that forecasting such thoughts makes no sense. As buttered said, it would be wiser to look for those thoughts in others... which I have with you.

Post #127

I said that you seem like a player who is very quick to talk but whose head is in the game on the mafia side. I said, and others have echoed, that you had forecast ideas that could have been used reflexively to catch mafia but instead have only made them aware of how not to act. And that this fits a possible profile that some mafia scum might adhere to. Please actually address these points. I do not want to read a third response saying "woah man I'm just thinking here that can't be bad".

Post #86

Anyone else think it's extremely counter productive to argue "The mafia usually follows 'x' formula"... you know... in front of the mafia? Doesn't that just give them a blue print of what all exactly would give us information down the line in the future?

You're lying.

 

[moi]

How so?

You've spun your argument against me into something entirely different than it was before where you now claim it to be about talking

Look at what post you mention TALKING explicitly. POST 127. Calling me out for talking and forecasting are different things. You're being far too liberal with your interpretations.

 

[moi]

Initial Accusation -

Moi your perspective has come an awful lot from the perspective of a mafioso (i.e. the mafia would do this) in a short amount of time, in spite of not singling out said behavior in anyone. Your head just seems to be on the mafia side to be honest. Looking for tells is good, but forecasting them?

For instance, you didn't know what bussing was. But within two minutes you concluded what years of meta has. So either you were thinking about it really hard from their perspective, or were full of shit in the first place (tee hee, I don't how to be mafia I must be town).

Current Accusation -

Again, the issue is not thinking. I assume everyone thinks. The issue is talking a lot. Especially in NOC when inactives can be very scummy. Conversely, a mafia could talk there mouth off. And you posted immediately after I called the mafia out on being inactive. You said whatever came to mind quickly, and it was from a mafia perspective. It's not that it isn't right to think such things. But why did you post? It caught no one with their pants down and only warned others of potential bad behavior. But after I mentioned inactivity, you just immediately had to say something. I myself didn't post much until just yesterday, and that could have been seen as scummy. But talking just to seem active does nothing at best and can be harmful at worst.

Please tell me how these are the same thing

 

[vonFiedler]

I'm sorry, did you think I was talking about the weather? I thought forecast was a good word to sum up what ButteredToast had already explicitly stated in regards to talking about tells that had yet to manifest. Also, you won't even give me that saying is the same as talking here? Are you going to have us define IS next? We kept arguing until I could make my point clear, and now that it is, you want to drop the whole argument and claim that my point has changed. It never has, nor could it ever have, because it was the same as ButteredToast's.

In the initial accusation I'm explaining why a mafia might act like that. In the so-called "current" accusation, I'm defining WHAT those actions are because clearly five posts didn't do it. Never did I post and not reference the things that you said out loud, because if I hadn't, then it'd mean that I was literally reading your mind.

 

[moi]

There is a distinct difference between the two posts that you are blatantly ignoring - the direction changes from the supposed guilt you found in me thinking about them to how it is the fact that I discuss them in an open fashion.

You blatantly ignored who I pointed out when talking about who could be pointed out, and have ignored addressing a large amount of my posts, as well as the obviously incorrect comment about the response in a timely matter.

Quit fishing.

 

[moi]

I have to go do shit so I won't be responding anymore until later tonight, so I will be around later. I'm sure people are interested in other actual dynamics of this game, anyways.

 

[vonFiedler]

There is a distinct difference between the two posts that you are blatantly ignoring - the direction changes from the supposed guilt you found in me thinking about them to how it is the fact that I discuss them in an open fashion.

Then stop ignoring this:

Moi your perspective has come an awful lot from the perspective of a mafioso (i.e. the mafia would do this) in a short amount of time, in spite of not singling out said behavior in anyone. Your head just seems to be on the mafia side to be honest. Looking for tells is good, but forecasting them?

It was never not about that. Hypothesis (you think like mafia), support (repeated behavior in a short time frame), THE POINT (why would you talk about tells when you can look for them?). You're talking shit.

and have ignored addressing a large amount of my posts

I will not respond to the same points you have made and keep repeating without new arguments with the same old arguments that I have been consistent with. Your thought processes yesterday were labyrinthine and only today have you made your thoughts clear. Nobody wants to see repeated matryoshka dolls of quote posts and to think that I have to respond to every single paragraph or you won't keep talking at all is so insanely gutless and petty... I mean for starters if I let a point slide that's a bit like letting you have the last word in'it? We're clearly not going to convince each other but mafia is a game with clear mechanics and what we say matters to others. So getting your knickers in a twist over this, TWICE NOW, I just don't even know how to react to it. Especially when you just did the same thing to me (and I don't care).

You blatantly ignored who I pointed out when talking about who could be pointed out ... as well as the obviously incorrect comment about the response in a timely matter.

To be fair, until now you made absolutely no effort to explain who you were pointing out. The post in question was made not after one of mine, but two of them. And it fits pretty damn well in context. Now I can see that you were talking about Spiffy, but you could have said so in about 10 other posts yesterday.

I think my earliest accusations in general now were the result of miscommunication (you not quoting people you were talking to). However I only ever said anything just to rile you up, and while there's a clear difference in your ability to argue today versus yesterday, I am very wary of your blatant attempt to misrepresent my argument (as factually evidenced in post #156). I don't feel that a townie should ever have to lie.

 

[JALMONT]

Ok. Yeah I was kidding about no lynch. We should definitely lynch someone lol. I thought we could get a discussion going based off that which sort of worked ??? But I think we have moved past that stage where there are more pertinent things to be talking about.

I am intrigued by the von/moi discussion but I want to reread it so I can understand exactly where both sides are at. That being said, my initial impression was that it seems like both are arguing for the sake of argument; I feel like there's not really much to both sides, and yet they are making something out of nothing. How likely is that to be true?? Probably not hugely likely, but I think it's interesting to note that this argument has basically taken up the majority of the focus of the day, which I'm not sure I'm a fan of. Like I'm going to come back to that a little later once I get some food/do some work before I make any hasty judgements.

I just wanted to get both of those things off my chest before I come back and talk about other stuff that's been happening in the game that I feel are fairly easy to lose track of given the moi/von thing.

 

[vonFiedler]

Otherwise I mostly think moi seems townieish right now.

 

[Fatecrashers]

Serious Bananas

With more experienced players I don't think lynching d1 or not really matters, since people are usually good enough to get by w. w/e happens so it's worth a shot to get mafia. With more newer players I feel that lynching just confuses things and actually inhibits people from playing well since they get so hung up on day 1 votes which don't really mean anything at all really.

jalmont i'd sorta get the 'just kidding' thing if you didn't post a justification for 'no lynch' in response to serious bananas, now it just reads kinda odd to me

 

[Spiffy]

For the record I saw Celever view the thread earlier and he obviously didn't respond to me so I think we should get two or three more votes on him!

To me the von/moi argument seems town vs. town at the moment.

Honestly Jalmont's gambit doesn't surprise me and I think he is being genuine. It's not like he was really under that much pressure to have such a change of heart which makes the transition much more believable.

 

[vonFiedler]

Lynching Celever is always a win/win in my book.

 

[ButteredToast]

I feel kind of mixed between fate and spiffy. To me, it's fine if you change your mind but the whole "I was just kidding guys I was trying to catch you" thing kind of rubs me the wrong way too. Doesn't really mean anything... but when we're trying to catch people lying or tipping their hands, it definitely seems suspicious that you'd feel the need to cover it up and say you had "deeper intentions." If you were under pressure, it would be a big flag. This just seems weird enough to be a flag, but I kind of want an explanation.

Jalmont Beings that we are going through this whole process with people, I think you need to elaborate on what exactly this "strategy" of yours was in trying to get a discussion going for a no lynch. What was your rationale for that? And if you just changed your mind and there wasn't a plan, why make up the story?

Also... Spiffy, I don't see too big of a flag with people taking time to answer. Usually in mafia, it would mean avoiding pressure and talking it over with the mafia. But this being NOC, he can't get help in crafting a story. Definitely Celever needs to say something, but I'd give him time to say something before we would jump.

 

[Celever]

For the record I saw Celever view the thread earlier and he obviously didn't respond to me so I think we should get two or three more votes on him!

LMAO I wish you weren't acting like town so that we could lynch you for stupidity.

So far I've played this whole game on my iPad; my computer at my Mum's house is infected. I'm at my Dad's now but I haven't started my computer up yet since I've been busy with other things. Why do you think my posts have been about 3 lines? -_-

I'm keeping up to date on the thread, but I can't reply to questions right this second. I expect I'll be able to respond in 2-3 hours, give or take... 2 hours :v. Don't hold your breath, I'm busy right this second and can't commit every second of every day to the game soooooo.

 

[Haunted Diamond]

jalmont i'd sorta get the 'just kidding' thing if you didn't post a justification for 'no lynch' in response to serious bananas, now it just reads kinda odd to me

my thoughts exactly.

 

[JALMONT]

Idk man :/ I wanted to be semi-believable so I had to put some effort into it ? I'm not really sure what you guys mean by it reads "odd."

i mean, if I'm mafia there's no need to do something like that to bring attention to me right ? I could easily just not do something that puts me in danger ? I actually wish people had put more pressure on me but oh well :/

 

[Fatecrashers]

i see, so your strategy was to lure out other people who might agree to no lynch on day one, and both your first two posts were part of that ruse
it read odd to me because you didn't clarify your motivations later and i had to piece it together from your latest posts, but i could see that being your strategy sure

 

[Wayan Vistar]

Questions, huh?

Do moi and Jalmont's want for a no lynch make them scummy in your eyes?

A little bit, but not enough that I'd feel comfortable lynching one of them, not yet at least.

What do you think of Serious Bananas and ButteredToast?

SB hasn't posted in a while, and he was being pretty confrontational towards Moi, but he wasn't the only one.
BT is giving me a slight town read atm, but as I said, I'm not exactly the best at reads.

Yeah... this is the best I've got rn.

 

[More Cowbell]

moi has been subbed out (at own request) and will be replaced by Amianki. All votes placed on moi will be dropped, much like what happened when sunny004 subbed in for Norden.

 

[Serious Bananas]

Effort is hard. I was gonna post last night but I didn't feel like reading all of the walls.

First off, I'm gonna Unvote moi because I'm not reading moi like caught scum right now. It's hard to explain. I also don't think that talking about game theory is scummy or anything, because if mafia!moi outed a bunch of conventional scumtells in thread so scum know what to look for, wouldn't moi have already told his team not to do these things? Unless the mafia can't speak during the day (and if it's 11/3/1 I doubt that) this is a null point at worst. Sure, it's not a good play, but there isn't any scum intent coming from it.

I don't understand von's initial vote on moi, because von said he didn't think moi (or anyone) was worth voting for at that stage, then after moi made one more post von decided to vote him citing points from one of moi's previous posts - which he didn't think were voteworthy before. Why did your opinion suddenly change?

ButteredToast, I went after moi because I didn't have anything stronger to go off of because of how early in the phase was and I wanted to see if I could make something happen with my vote and hopefully get a stronger read on moi.

Celever is bad for ignoring all of the posts (aside from a really vague point on moi - why is it lackluster?) to prod at an inactive slot when they've contributed roughly amount to the game. This is even weirder considering Celever apparently plays NOC offsite, so I would expect him to be doing something here. I also think that he overreacted to Spiffy calling him out for lurking with the comment about wanting to lynch him for it (which might've been a joke) and the "I can't devote every second of my life to this game" (which probably wasn't a joke).

I'd say sunny's vote is kind of similar but if Lightwolf has actually been active outside of the thread I guess the justification is okay. I want him to say more about other players though, especially since he switched off of it without saying anything.

I think Pokeguy is too harmless to be scum, just because I feel like he would try and come up with some reason for voting if he was mafia to blend in rather then flailing around saying "what do I do?" which is an easy way of drawing attention to himself. I can see Jalmont pulling the no lynch thing as a reaction test as town after Flavorless happened.

Got cut by moi subbing out so I guess my unvote didn't matter anyway? I'm gonna Vote Celever anyway. I need to look over the recent pages again soon because I kind of skimmed over moi and Von's latest posts so I could get this thing finished.