Resource ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread V3 - Read Post 3451 Page 139

[FaZeBoo]

Ayy weavile got the bump up to A-!

Anyways, to my nomination- Zygarde to C
I understand why it is low, because it is outclassed by rocky helmet chomp, but hell, its stats arent bad at all.

Stats- 108/100/121/81/95/95

Stats- 108/130/95/80/85/102
Even though zygarde has a worse ability, since chomp is pretty much forced to run rocky helmet, zygarde gets lefties recovery. Zygarde also gets one of the best priority in the game with extreme speed. A coil e speed eq and outrage set can hurt. Zygarde can also learn dragon dance unlike garchomp, and pairing better natural bulk with raw power can leave you dead late game. However, zygarde cannot learn stealth rocks (idk why) and cant play bulky as easily, so this is a controversial nomination and i understand, but i can honestly see zygarde fitting well in the coming metagame.

 

[AM]

Probably not what AM meant by lower ranks discussion but here goes:

--> C- / D

Chlorophyll Venusaur has seen a reasonable degree of effectiveness in OU. Venu is a small bit part on most Sun / dual-weather teams, and there are only a minimal amount of sun turns for it to abuse this gen, but it can still be effective enough in those turns to make a difference. It outspeeds virtually the entire meta at +2 using a Modest nature so it can be hard for offensive teams to check effectively. I don't think C- / D is too much of a stretch here for something that has has seen more general success and use than say Haxorus or Chandelure (there's at least one showcase team that also topped the ladder that featured Char-Y and Venu). Even in a situation where is finds itself out of Sun or short on Sun turns it still has passable coverage, decent defensive typing, and access to Sleep Powder so it's not total deadweight. Non-Mega Venusaur probably deserves a ranking at this point.

Uh yeah lower rank discussion includes stuff like that to just don't be ridiculous with noms. Guess it's kind of hard to gauge what mandates being ridiculous but I guess this nom and the swellow nom to D around page 9 was a good example of what's allowed.

 

[urban]

Whimsicott from C- to C

I think C- is underselling the utility Whimsicott can provide to teams. It is the fastest user of Prankster with an expansive support movepool, and Prankster is incredibly helpful in using those support moves effectively. Just a quick run down of usable moves: Encore, Leech Seed, Light Screen, Memento, Safeguard, Stun Spore, Substitute, Switcheroo, Tailwind, Taunt, Toxic, and U-Turn. Whimsicott also has a good match-up against the two prominent Magic Bouncers in the tier - M Diancie and M Sableye, as it can easily outspeed and 2HKO both of them with SE STAB moves. Whimsicott's defensive typing is actually pretty good too, allowing it to check things like Keldeo and the Latis. The lagging tail/u-turn set is great as a status absorber and emergency check to dangerous sweepers with prio Stun Spore or prio Switcheroo. Being able to paralyze RP Lando-I and SR Excadrill seems like a pretty big niche over other Prankster users Thundurus and Klefki.

Whimsi does have some downsides, though, particularly the fact that its bulk of 60/85/75 isn't all that great for a support mon. It also doesn't enjoy the wide presence of things like M-Meta, both Scizor forms, and Talonflame. However, its incredibly diverse movepool and versatility can make it a nice glue or pivot mon for offensive or balanced teams, and that warrants a rise to C imo.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

Mega Latios needs to fall, and it needs to fall hard. There is just little incentive to actually use this thing. It takes up a Mega Slot, and cannot use an item besides the Latiosite. This means it's actually weaker than regular Latios with Life Orb, and it takes up the mega Slot, so it holds you back from using another great Mega like Charizard or Gardevoir. It can run a DD set, but why use that when you have Dragonite, Mega Altaria, and Charizard? There's seriously just very little incentive to use this. It's not a bad Pokemon individually at all, but it has some really terrible opportunity cost to the point where there's little incentive to use it.

Shuckle should probably drop to C- since Sticky Web just isn't very good rn. WhiteQueen made a post about it before afaik and his points were perfectly legit.

 

[ChinChinLives]

Mega Latios needs to fall, and it needs to fall hard. There is just little incentive to actually use this thing. It takes up a Mega Slot, and cannot use an item besides the Latiosite. This means it's actually weaker than regular Latios with Life Orb, and it takes up the mega Slot, so it holds you back from using another great Mega like Charizard or Gardevoir. It can run a DD set, but why use that when you have Dragonite, Mega Altaria, and Charizard? There's seriously just very little incentive to use this. It's not a bad Pokemon individually at all, but it has some really terrible opportunity cost to the point where there's little incentive to use it.[/quote/]

I agree with this, LO latios and mega latias outclass it. Mega latias checks the wallbreakers (tini, keldeo, scarf terra, megazard y and nasty plot celebi) better. While LO latios is better at nuking. The only benefit of using mega latios is it can effectively run eq and other lure stuff.

 

[heritage]

I think cleaning up the D rank is very important right now, as there's a lot of garbage down there that don't deserve to be on the rankings at all.

--> Unranked​

Yes, this has been discussed a whole lot, and for whatever reason people are defending it. There is very little reason to use it over Weavile and Kyurem-Black, who not only can hold an item but don't take up a Mega Slot. Weavile has access to fantastic dual STAB attacks and utility in Knock Off, and Kyurem Black is decently bulky and also has much better coverage. I see a lot of arguments saying that Glalie is a wallbreaker, and, fine, fine, but there is still so little reason to actually use it. Any team Glalie is on is brought down just by how bad it actually is. It just barely outdamages Weavile as well, meaning if you DON'T use Glalie, you can not only use a Pokemon with more versatility but you can use another Mega. Glalie's completely terrible defensive typing means being weak to every form of entry hazard while only having one resistance. I know Glalie isn't meant to be taking hits, but this is still a huge issue if you end up needing to take one, considering its awful defenses, as well. Glalie struggles pretty badly against offensive teams, as 100 Speed is pretty bad, and Ice Shard coming from a mediocre 120 Attack with no way to boost that really won't be doing much to... well anything. The over abundance of Pokemon such as Mega Metagross, Mega Scizor, Mega Gyarados, Keldeo and Mega Lopunny don't make Glalie's job any easier. On another note, people over-hype Refrigerate Explosion. They say how powerful it is, and while yes it hits like a truck, not only do you take out your own Pokemon in the process, but your own Mega. This is absolutely huge, as losing your Mega to possibly KO a single 'mon obviously means you don't have it for the rest of the game. As a Spikes lead, since I see this occasionally being brought up, it is brutally outclassed by things like Custap Skarmory and Azelf. There's not much to say on this aspect since, once again, it takes up your Mega Slot. Yes I know, "omg explosion" will be an argument against this entire post, but is it really worth it in the long run?

tl:dr: Glalie's terrible defensive typing, bad defenses, vulnerability to offence due to low Speed and being brutally outclassed really hurts its cause.

 

[Eraxxer]

Dugtrio C- -> C/C+
Literally noone prepares for it (like putting shed shell on Heatran and so on) and it's amazing on voltturn teams and can be paired extremely well with things like Specs Sylveon, Volcarona, Latis, Scizor, and so on. It can basically guarantee kills on Heatran, Magnezone, weakened MMeta, Mega Diancie, Empoleon, Tentacruel, Raikou, you get the idea. Duggie+Volc combo is amazing too, essentially breaking the common FerroTran combo.

Movepool with Sucker Punch, Stealth Rock, Memento, Earthquake, Stone Edge, Reversal, can hold a Band to guarantee kills or a Sash etc.. you guys know what Duggie does. With Heatran being soooo common in the current meta Duggie's ability to trap and guaranteed kill it warrants a definite raise imo. Compared especially to things like Emboar, Espeon, Pangoro, Noivern etc., which are all largely outclassed by other things but have small niches, Duggie has no competition for its role and I think it stands out well above these Pokemon.

 

[firehusky]

---> D

Pretty sure the whole reason Espeon was even ranked is being a GeoPass receiver. As a lead / dual screens user, Azelf is the better choice thanks to Explosion, Taunt, Stealth Rock, and Skill Swap. With the rise of Magic Bounce Pokemon such as Sableye and Diancie, using Espeon as a lead is a really bad idea. Espeon is super frail and has a shit defensive typing as well as being really weak without boosts. It basically relies on Smeargle or Scolipede to pass it boosts and they can be stopped really easily by taunt users or just really hard hitters.

Even though it's one of the best geopass receivers, geopass is still a really uncompetitive and stupid playstyle, and it isn't common at all. There's just really no way espeon is on the level of pokemon such as emboar and mega aggron, but it definitely seems to be on par with other D rank mons such as exploud and diancie.

 

[RadicalReuniclus]

I know this isn't lower rank discussion technically, but I agree with Reuniclus moving upward in viability. (And i'm not trying to be biased, i'm trying to be truthful).

I feel at the bare minimum, Reuniclus moving up to B/B+ sounds like a good idea. It's wallbreaking skills are amazing, especially with Magic Guard being able to shut down any pokemon trying to status it, such as Chansey and their toxic. It's natural bulk as well allows it to live a nice amount of hits, and get a guaranteed CM out, and it makes it an extremely potent threat. However, it's extremely easy to point out that it's countered by nearly any dark type, or strong knock offer, but i'm going to focus on dark types, especially bisharp. It's ability to predict a switch in and hope for a connection on focus blast gives it a chance to kill what it's going to be countered by, however my argument with this is very thinly veiled, as it's usually not worth attempting that unless you have a guaranteed switchin as a backup. Getting back to the point, it's also possible to scare out reuniclus by pokemon like Gengar and Mega Sableye, which also hampers it, hence why it probably should never appear in the A ranks. However, on the idea that Gengar cannot safely switch into Reuniclus most of the time, that can be avoided, and Reuniclus can get an easy KO in. Finally, Reuniclus is great at Late-Game Sweeping, and after it gets a few CMs up, it's near unstoppable, both offensive and defensively.

So, I feel that Reuniclus should move up to B/B+.

 

[That Grammar Terrorist]

I think cleaning up the D ranks are very important right now, as there's a lot of garbage down there that don't deserve to be on the rankings at all.

--> Unranked​

Yes, this has been discussed a whole lot, and for whatever reason people are defending it. There is very little reason to use it over Weavile and Kyurem-Black, who not only can hold an item but don't take up a Mega Slot. Weavile has access to fantastic dual STAB attacks and utility in Knock Off, and Kyurem Black is decently bulky and also has much better coverage. I see a lot of arguments saying that Glalie is a wallbreaker, and, fine, fine, but there is still so little reason to actually use it. Any team Glalie is on is brought down just by how bad it actually is. It just barely outdamages Weavile as well, meaning if you DON'T use Glalie, you can not only use a Pokemon with more versatility but you can use another Mega. Glalie's completely terrible defensive typing means being weak to every form of entry hazard while only having one resistance. I know Glalie isn't meant to be taking hits, but this is still a huge issue if you end up needing to take one, considering its awful defenses, as well. Glalie struggles pretty badly against offensive teams, as 100 Speed is pretty bad, and Ice Shard coming from a mediocre 120 Attack with no way to boost that really won't be doing much to... well anything. The over abundance of Pokemon such as Mega Metagross, Mega Scizor, Mega Gyarados, Keldeo and Mega Lopunny don't make Glalie's job any easier. On another note, people over-hype Refrigerate Explosion. They say how powerful it is, and while yes it hits like a truck, not only do you take out your own Pokemon in the process, but your own Mega. This is absolutely huge, as losing your Mega to possibly KO a single 'mon obviously means you don't have it for the rest of the game. As a Spikes lead, since I see this occasionally being brought up, it is brutally outclassed by things like Custap Skarmory and Azelf. There's not much to say on this aspect since, once again, it takes up your Mega Slot. Yes I know, "omg explosion" will be an argument against this entire post, but is it really worth it in the long run?

tl:dr: Glalie's terrible defensive typing, bad defenses, vulnerability to offence due to low Speed and being brutally outclassed really hurts its cause.

Disagreed. By saying this, you're saying that it has no niche whatsoever in OU. Just because it's outclassed doesn't necessarily mean that it's inviable, otherwise we wouldn't have Zygarde, Shuckle, or several other things on the viability ranking. It still has a niche, albeit small, of being able to gain momentum with STAB explosions or returns. Plus, teams at the moment seem to be underprepared for it at best, with DD Mega Altaria being really high in usage. It also has some versatility, and unlike weavile, it can go special to bypass some checks, it also attains near perfect coverage with earthquake and a STAB. Weavile can also not take hits as you said, but it can also run super fang to weaken things that it cannot touch otherwise and make them easy pickings for a revenge killer. It has a small niche on select teams that it fits well on, so I think it's fine in D.

 

[North Gate]

Hello. Regarding the Mega Latios talk I'd like to bring attention to a couple of calcs.

first set of calcs

0- Atk Life Orb Latios Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 291-348 (75.5 - 90.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0- Atk Mega Latios Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 312-368 (81 - 95.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Mega Latios Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 344-408 (89.3 - 105.9%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
0 Atk Life Orb Latios Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 328-390 (85.1 - 101.2%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

(For the rest of these examples, I will be using Hippowdon as my test puppet since it has decent mixed bulk (and because i hate Nedor .)

second set of calcs

252 SpA Mega Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 112 SpD Hippowdon: 280-331 (66.6 - 78.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Mega Latios Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Hippowdon: 108-127 (25.7 - 30.2%) -- 0.5% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Mega Latios Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 112 SpD Hippowdon: 87-103 (20.7 - 24.5%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
0- Atk Mega Latios Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Hippowdon: 57-68 (13.5 - 16.1%) -- possibly the worst move ever

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 112 SpD Hippowdon: 313-370 (74.5 - 88%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Hippowdon: 121-142 (28.8 - 33.8%) -- 97% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 112 SpD Hippowdon: 96-114 (22.8 - 27.1%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
0- Atk Life Orb Latios Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Hippowdon: 55-65 (13 - 15.4%) -- possibly the worst move ever

As you can see, all of these are neutral hits with the same set on both sides and they do different damage, but, if you may ask, what if they are max/max with attack? A Dragon Dance set? Well, I will deliver.

third set of calcs

252 Atk Life Orb Latios Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Hippowdon: 94-110 (22.3 - 26.1%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Latios Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Hippowdon: 94-110 (22.3 - 26.1%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Latios Outrage vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Hippowdon: 140-165 (33.3 - 39.2%) -- 13% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Latios Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Hippowdon: 78-92 (18.5 - 21.9%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Mega Latios Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Hippowdon: 93-109 (22.1 - 25.9%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Mega Latios Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Hippowdon: 93-109 (22.1 - 25.9%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Mega Latios Outrage vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Hippowdon: 138-163 (32.8 - 38.8%) -- 5.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Mega Latios Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Hippowdon: 77-91 (18.3 - 21.6%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery

At +1?

+1 252 Atk Life Orb Latios Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Hippowdon: 140-165 (33.3 - 39.2%) -- 13% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Latios Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Hippowdon: 140-165 (33.3 - 39.2%) -- 13% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Latios Outrage vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Hippowdon: 208-246 (49.5 - 58.5%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Latios Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Hippowdon: 116-136 (27.6 - 32.3%) -- 63.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 252 Atk Mega Latios Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Hippowdon: 136-162 (32.3 - 38.5%) -- 2.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Mega Latios Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Hippowdon: 136-162 (32.3 - 38.5%) -- 2.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Mega Latios Outrage vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Hippowdon: 205-243 (48.8 - 57.8%) -- 53.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Mega Latios Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Hippowdon: 114-135 (27.1 - 32.1%) -- 49.9% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

Lesson of the day, is that Life Orb Latios hits harder if it's max/max, but for mainly special sets of Mega Latios, physical moves barely outdamage regular Latios... so basically LO Latios does actually outdamage Latios-Mega. (although full attack latios didn't hit that much harder) With that point I still think that Latios-Mega should just be unlisted.
Edit: I thought it was D already rip. Mega Latios to D then.

sets if you were curious

Latios (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid/Naive Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Fire]/Earthquake
- Defog

Latios (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly/Adamant Nature
- Zen Headbutt
- Dragon Claw/Outrage
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance

Latios-Mega (M) @ Latiosite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid/Naive Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Fire]/Earthquake
- Defog

Latios-Mega (M) @ Latiosite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly/Adamant Nature
- Zen Headbutt
- Dragon Claw/Outrage
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance

 

[JoshHarmony]

I have two nominations.

First:
Keep Mega Latios C Rank
I think that it would be absolutely ridiculous to lower its ranking
First off its offenses are 130/160 which is beautiful for a mixed attacker
Next its defenses are 80/100/120 which is pretty solid seeing as Knock Off (while still painful) will always do lessened damage.
Finally let's recognize that it has a solid movepool with access to two great set up moves in Dragon Dance and Calm Mind, boltbeam, Draco Meteor, Dragon Pulse, Dragon Claw, Psyshock, Psychic, and Zen Headbutt which are all incredible moves interchangeable for mixed, Surf, recovery in roost and refresh, and a plethora of other niche sets that could be realistically run.
The defense "Life Orb Latios hits harder" is weak. Mega Latios fills a different role than Lation, and life orb causes damage each turn so LO isn't without fault while Mega Latios simply takes up a mega slot where if your mega slot hasn't already been taken up it has practically no downside. Now is it the best poke around? No, obviously not (sadly to say) but if you look lower than C rank and believe M-Latios belongs with those mons, you are really underestimating it (I mean for fuck sakes we have Gourgeist in fucking C-)

Second:
Whimsicott to C/C+
I think Whimsicott deserves a bump. Does it have mediocre stats? Yes. Quite obviously, though let's look at Clefable's stats and ranking and move past the idea of stats defining a mon. Whimsicott does something I feel a lot of support mons can't do. It has a lot of immediate threat that I feel like puts pressure on an opponent very easily. Some mons you can let sit while a you begin to get up hazards, especially with those filling a supporting role like Whimsicott. In Whimsicott's case though, it needs to be quickly dealt with or before you know it your team is para'd from stun spore, Whimsicott is behind a sub, and the mon you have in is seeded simply giving your opponent more and more opportunities to come in and punish you yet again. Encore and Taunt can also make you lose momentum fast by forcing you to switch and attempt to set up/get hazards up again later on. Also due to its great speed stats many opposing lead won't get anything off before said Taunt. The finally tailwind naturally supports slower mons, many of which it pairs up well with due to its unique typing (I personally enjoy Whimsicott/Bulky M-Metagross/LO Tran) It basically does what your natural support mon does, but with a lot of pressure to stop it, and pressuring your opponent to switch in and slowly and get chipped down/be made entirely useless from a plethora of of different moves on a multitude of viable sets really makes me feel this mon in particular deserves the raise.

 

[Totodile56]

Clefable is not so good for even this to +4 , with a roar whirlind etc .. Because it is as simple as placing roar or whirlind apart not touch as many pokemon Heatran Chansey .., and the taunt is active S to A+

Chesnaught physical wall is excellent for many pokemon as Landorus t, scizor , gyarados , Excadrill .. a lot of pokemon, it also has access to place spikes , and can be cured with the leftovers the leech seed and drain punch. B+ to A-

I am Spanish , sorry if you have not understand something .

 

[Eievui-Nymphia]

About M Latios, it should be in the rankings because even though it takes the Mega slot and is too similar to Latios itself. But has some advantages compared to Life Orb Latios mainly because it lacks recoil.

However,
Mega Latios is more outclassed by Latias than Latios. Why Latias? Because it's best set is like the Latias set without Healing Wish. Actually, th other set is the CM Offensive set of Latias. Notice that M Latios has similar bulk than Latias.

And also, don't make comparison betweeen Latios and the rest of C rank. Even though the Mega slot issue isn't exclusive to it, Mega Latios case is a very drastic one. Mega Latios is a A+ pokemon in C rank just because the opportunity cost.

 

[DarkNostalgia]

I think a lot of you are downplaying Mega Latios's lack of recoil from Life Orb, and its increased bulk. I am not saying that Mega Latios is good, but I believe that Mega Latios should go to C-.

Because Mega Latios lacks recoil and has increased bulk, it can function as a decent Calm Mind user, similar to Life Orb + Calm Mind Latios; however, it finds an easier time setting up at the expense of a bit of power. While I definitely agree that in 90% of situations, Life Orb Latios is infinitely better than Mega Latios, but the increased bulk inexplicably provides Mega Latios with more switch-in opportunities. One such example would be Choice Specs Keldeo - Secret Sword has 85% chance to 2HKO Life Orb Latios after Stealth Rock, while Mega Latios avoids that 2HKO entirely. Another example would be Choice Scarf Tyranitar having a guaranteed chance to OHKO Life Orb Latios, while Mega Latios has a 70% chance to avoid that. Not to mention Mega Latios takes Knock Off significantly better.

However, because Mega Latios has a tremendous opportunity cost coming with the Mega Stone, I believe it should drop to C-.

 

[Albacore]

Wow so many noms in such a short time. Anyway, my thoughts for those I have an opinion on :

Venusaur to D/C- :

Hell yeah this deserves a rank. This is pretty overdue tbh, Sun has been a ladder-topping playstyle for a while now, and though it may have died down a bit it’s still definitely viable and effective.

Reuniclus to B

As said before, kinda off-topic but yeah I can definitely see this thing moving to B. B+ is probably way too high since it has a bunch of flaws like not being able to carry Focus Blast and Shadow Ball on the same set and the admittedly pretty hefty competition from Clefable which is less prone to getting screwed by random coverage moves and isn’t Pursuit trappable, but it has some pretty notable perks over Clef such as greater initial bulk which lets it handle stuff like mixed Kyu-B and Thundurus without sacrificing too much physical bulk, resistance to Psychic, and actually beating other CMers. Also it has other pretty neat sets like Regen Pivot with 3 Attacks+Recover with max SpA, Trick Room and even more niche stuff like Colbur Berry so let’s not act like MG CM is the only thing it knows how to do, even though it’s undeniably its most viable set.

Zygarde to C

On paper this thing actually doesn’t look too bad. I don’t really see too much merit in SubCoil, but DD seems pretty solid against offensive teams, which can’t para-check it with Thundurus and are hard pressed to handle is STABs. And yeah it has to lock itself into Outrage which sucks, and does compete with Dragonite, but the higher bulk, STAB on Earthquake and SR resistance as opposed to weakness gives it a pretty solid edge over it, and DD Dragonite often runs Outrage for its higher power regardless so no access to DClaw isn’t such a huge deal. So even though I haven’t really used it, DD Zygarde it seems solid enough for in theory, it’s no Mega Altaria by any means but it seems good enough for C rank to me.

Mega Latios to D/Unranked

Yeah, I think it’s becoming increasingly obvious that Mega Latios is basically useless, no one wants to touch this thing with a 10-foot pole. Which is a huge shame, because its stats scream top-tier, but the advantages of using it over either LO Latios or Mega Latias are basically nonexistant, or at leats too small to really matter in practice. The only set which it, in theory, could viably pull off, CM 2 Attacks, turned out to be better in the hands of Mega Latias as we’ve seen by its recent usage in tours. I’d hesitate to unrank it because it is absolutely a good Pokemon on its own merits, but realistically it’s just not ever worth using, so I'd put in in D rank for the time being.

Wobuffet to B-

Yeah, I think I support this moving up, Wobuffet’s support capabilities are pretty overlooked. It’s just a fantastic support for frail sweepers and pretty consistently generates setup fodder. It’s hard to fit on teams because it opens up weaknesses and doesn’t fix any other ones, but on the kind of teams which thrives more on winning and less on not losing (which are pretty much the most successful teams in tours at least) it can find a place.

Cloyster to Unranked

Eh, this thing isn’t that bad. Yeah, it needs support and lots of it, but it can actually sweep a few teams. It really helps that a lot of Steels and Water types are relatively easy to wear down, Water types with stuff like Toxic Spikes and Steel types because they tend to lack reliable recovery. It also has pretty nice luring capabilities, it can lure either Water types or Steel types with Natural Gift or can even run Explosion to rack up momentum while dealing massive damage to something threatening to your team like Gyarados or Metagross. Besides, Ice STAB is really strong right now, and Cloyster is a pretty good user of it. It’s definitely a hard Pokemon to be used but it can be used to good effect.

Mega Glailie to Unranked

Mega Glailie: Once again, Ice STAB is really strong, and though Glaile does receive competition from Mamoswine, it hits significantly harder with its ice STAB without receiving LO recoil, and the speed increase compared to Mamo does matter quite a bit. It’s just better at weakening walls than Mamo. It’s not very good, but it’s still usable.

My own nominations :

Gourgeist-XL to C

Right so when I look at C- rank, I see a bunch of barely viable Pokemon which either only fit on very specific types of teams or have limited and unimportant niches. And then I see Gourgeist-XL, a pretty legitimate defensive Pokemon which walls a bunch of big threats and provides pretty good team support with Leech Seed and WoW. So yeah, I’d say this deserves a raise, it’s just flat-out better than anything in C- bar maybe Whimsicott which I’ve never used or seen used so I can’t comment on it.

Sableye for C-/C

Okay, so this was moved all the way down to D back when Mega Sableye was basically the best Mega there was, but is it really that bad? I mean sure, if you ignore the opportunity cost it’s very much outclassed by its mega, but if you want to use another mega than Sableye, and you often do, you can definitely justify using this as a stallbreaker, stop to Fighting types, and an emergency check to physical attackers. And now that Sableye isn’t the only Mega being used on stall, its regular form can find a place on it more easily. Yes, it has competition from Mew but the priority on Recover, Taunt and WoW and the better defensive typing are both in Sableye’s favour. I think D is a bit uncharitable for it, C- or C looks more fitting to me.

Infernape for B-

I know I’m beating a dead horse here but yeah this thing is B- material, I’d like to refer you to the 20+ posts supporting this thing moving up because pretty much everything about it has already been said, it’s extremely versatile, decently fast, has a nice defensive typing, isn’t hard to fit on teams, and is just generally better than all other C+ and some B- ranks (it’s certainly at least on par with Lucario, its closest comparison, imo)

Aerodactyl for D

I made this nomination around a month ago but it kinda got ignored. Still, I think this is worthy of a rank, Aerodactyl is a perfectly viable Sash lead, and though Azelf is mostly better because of Skill Swap and Explosion, it has a few perks over it namely the ability to outspeed and anti-lead opposing Azelf, check Talonflame and Tornadus-T which is are big threats for HO, and having access to EdgeQuake coverage letting it offensively threaten Pokemon like Heatran and Charizard. As a SR lead it’s basically a mix between Azelf and Garchomp : like Azelf it has Taunt and high speed, and like Garchomp it can kinda sit there and smack stuff with its very solid coverage. Even though it’s weaker than Garchomp and less reliable than Azelf, its ability to revenge kill faster threats gives it enough of advantage over both of these to be ranked imo.

 

[Guidorealmsmc]

and

to D:

I'm nominating both of them to D as the only reason both of these are ranked is geopass. For one aside from their role on geopass there is no reason to use either of them. For smeargle as a suicide lead just use azelf as it isn't easily shut down and it has offensive capabilities so taunt won't make it completely useless. Smeargle also has no offensive presence and can barely get up two layers of hazards let alone one. For espeon as screens support use klefki as it has prankster dual screens AND spikes. Not to mention a better defensive typing for getting screens up. Espeon can't even abuse magic bounce as it is so frail.

While both are needed for geopass geopass is complete cancer and takes no skill to use. I'll quote littlelucario if anyone wants to know why geopass is cancer:

I just want to share my opinion on a terrible strategy that needs a ban immediately: geopass. For those who do not know what geopass is, it is a strategy where people use several turns in the beginning of the battle to set up several moves that make it easy for the main culprit of geopass to set up geomancy and help the sweeper in sweeping the opposing team such as; tailwind, light screen, reflect, and memento because it has to run an item over focus sash to set up geomancy. After these moves are set up, smeargle comes in puts the opposing mon to sleep so that it can set up geomancy and possibly cotton guard depending on the set. Then, smeargle passes off to a special sweeper; usually one with stored power such as espeon or clefable. The mon then goes and sweeps the opponents team with the given boosts and a couple of coverage moves. If there are direct problems for that sweeper, then a trapper (which is also pretty borked but that's a discussion for another day) comes in and eliminates that mon. As you can probably tell, this strategy is very broken and needs to be banned very soon. This new replay, which was against a player with a very good team, consisting of exclusively S and A rank mons who ended up defogging away my screens, shows how geopass is executed, and how you can still sweep a team with it regardless of how skillful the opposing player is if you aren't a completely incompetent player. Geopass is a broken strategy and flat uncompetitive because it requires little to no skill to click the hazard then support move buttons that are required to execute geopass. The sweeper only has to click stored power and/or its coverage moves after it gets a geomancy handed to it. For those that say. "Don't worry about geopass, no one uses it anyways!" the reason why basically no one uses geopass is because it is so broken that most players vow never to use it and we shouldn't decide not to ban something because of usage because broken megas are used less than they could be as a result of the opportunity cost of not being able to use other megas, but they are still broken. Under that logic, Landorus-T, Heatran, and Keldeo need to be tossed from the tier while MMetagross, MSableye, and MSlowbro don't need to be suspected or considered for bans at all. Geopass requires little to no skill to use, and the unhealthiness and uncompetitive nature of the strategy rivals previous OU titans such as Greninja and Mega Lucario. As you can see from the replay that I provided, you can screw up, make misclicks and misplays, and you can still win with geopass due to how unhealthy and broken it truly is. On top of that, geopass teams that can win north of 60% of their games take all of five minutes to whip up and no thought about synnergy or perfect EV spreads is required because of how broken the strategy is, let alone the teams that have optimized EV spreads and sets that have been worked on for a half an hour or more. You can adjust for strategies such as phasing and dragon tail by simply using a magic bouncer such as espeon and give it a move to "dodge" dragon tail such as substitute. Many of these small variations can make a geopass team that is basically impossible to beat. The combination of all of these things shows why geopass is such a cancerous and terrible strategy that should be banned from the OU scene as soon as possible. My Preposition for a ban is to ban Smeargle+Baton Pass, banning Smeargle as a whole, or banning Geomancy from OU. A straight ban of Smeargle wouldn't really affect the lower tiers because Smeargle is a BL Pokemon anyways (complex bans are usually unnecessary anyways).

Here are replays of a few different matches with a geopass team on the laddder:

replays

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-215088389 - it's a random ladder match against a player using a could be better team
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-215182377 - this replay isn't against the most skilled player, but it shows how geopass works even when everything doesn't go according to plan.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-215183484 - This replay is against a decent player that is using a pretty good team and I ended up getting into a position where it was basically impossible for me to lose, and the opposing player forfeited as a result of this. http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-215187556 - another match against a mediocre team that could be much better
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-215317662 - Here is a match against a more skilled player and shows how it was ridiculously easy to set up geopass even against a decent player.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-215320977 - A very decent team on the ladder that I faced and easily swept despite it having several mons and strats that would usually tear apart a HO or fast and frail team.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-215326560 - This is a replay against my friend MuhFugginMoose showing how you can even baton pass off to a slower mon and still sweep with geopass because of how OP the defensive boosts that you get from it are as well as the offensive boosts.

 

[Martin]

I'm just going to address any nominations for Espeon and Smeargle.

Espeon: Espeon is literal garbage. I mean, lemme just go over its one niche (GeoPass reciever). Not only is geopass an awful strategy, but v.s. any educated player it is really easy to beat. It needs tonnes of team support, only gets one shot and is screwed over by crits, AV+Dragon Tail Slowking and the rare Haze. Espeon in any other role is outclassed by M-Dinacie and M-Sableye, but the thing it can do that they can't is quite possibly the most ass strategy in OU.

Smeargle: I have already covered why you shouldn't use it for Geopass, and I am now going to cover why you shouldn't use it in any other role. Sticky Web is ass in OU, it is outclassed by Shuckle in the role of Sticky Web+hazard, it has no offensive presence, meaning that it is forced to Magic Coat if it wants wants to not be complete Taunt Bait, it is really frail, which means that it can't afford to run Mental Herb, Spore Variants are ruined by Grass-types (while non-Spore variants have to rely on an 80% accurate move to put things to sleep) and it is complete setup bait (which Shuckle isn't due to Encore). Smeargle is really bad and it really shouldn't be used on any serious team.

 

[AM]

Some stuff I agree or disagree with from what I've seen so far. Just gonna quote stuff so team could just look at one comment

As I suggested earlier:

Wobbuffet from C+ to B-

With Custap Berry + Destiny Bond, it can now kill some more things that it previously had difficulty with in XY. It doesn't have the greatest movepool and is fairly one dimensional, but it happens to have everything it could really need. Its staples are Encore, Mirror Coat, and Counter, with Safeguard being an option to allow teammates to come in and setup on status moves like Toxic.

Eh I'd argue it's gained some dimension with the release of Custap. I'd also argue it loves being in a hazard centric meta-game since it's usually found on offense that needs threats eliminated which Wobb helps doing with Custap / DBond variants. Sure why not.

Probably not what AM meant by lower ranks discussion but here goes:

--> C- / D

So yeah this has proven to be effective as much as it seems like a shits and giggles thing so I'd probably consider doing this as well. I don't like the idea of C- since it really sort of mandates sun to be effective and in most cases that sun is offered by Char-Y which kind of enhances a Talonflame and Lati weakness, to an extent on the latter, while normally it's only a 5 turn deal. Little sun cores are pretty nice since people use terrible or no means to prep for them.

Ayy weavile got the bump up to A-!

Anyways, to my nomination- Zygarde to C
I understand why it is low, because it is outclassed by rocky helmet chomp, but hell, its stats arent bad at all.

Stats- 108/100/121/81/95/95

Stats- 108/130/95/80/85/102

Not really on board with this simply for the fact there is a bunch of Dragon Dancers that are just more efficient overall for serving other functions. However C- is fine for Zygarde for DDance and Fat Tank sets that provide Glare utility. Its ranking is sort of also based on its own merits Garchomp and Zygarde kind of just do a lot of different stuff anyways. Pretty solid at breaking down steels and fitting on fatter offense due to its bulk and ESpeed + hazards does really well.

Whimsicott from C- to C

Wanted this to rise for awhile for most of the reasons stated here. x2 VoltTurn mons + Whimsi + rocker + balance breaker + set up sweeper is a pretty solid foundation. I guess you can also put emphasis on the stupidity of Baton Pass but even then the merits outside of that are honestly more suited to C rank.

I think cleaning up the D rank is very important right now, as there's a lot of garbage down there that don't deserve to be on the rankings at all.

--> Unranked​

This quote below me covers up nicely why it I wouldn't unrank M-Glalie. Long story short I play games where people don't have anything to wall this other than M-Scizor and a fat water who's usually grounded so hazards + Freeze Dry takes care of that. It's also a momentum grabber when it needs to use Explosion so something is more than likely being removed with no sweat.

Disagreed. By saying this, you're saying that it has no niche whatsoever in OU. Just because it's outclassed doesn't necessarily mean that it's inviable, otherwise we wouldn't have Zygarde, Shuckle, or several other things on the viability ranking. It still has a niche, albeit small, of being able to gain momentum with STAB explosions or returns. Plus, teams at the moment seem to be underprepared for it at best, with DD Mega Altaria being really high in usage. It also has some versatility, and unlike weavile, it can go special to bypass some checks, it also attains near perfect coverage with earthquake and a STAB. Weavile can also not take hits as you said, but it can also run super fang to weaken things that it cannot touch otherwise and make them easy pickings for a revenge killer. It has a small niche on select teams that it fits well on, so I think it's fine in D.

Some more stuff.

Dugtrio C- -> C/C+

Dugtrio is a little bit aids ngl lol. Actually pairs up with a lot of relevant stuff right now like Tornadus-T, Latis, the Zards, M-Altaria, etc. I think C+ is a bit high for Dugtrio but FerroTran being a basic as hell hazard combo is one thing it helps take out the picture pretty easily. Heatran is usually the defensive check to a lot of stuff in the tier at once and or switch in so trapping it on doubles or voltturns can be pretty basic. I'm agreeing with this one for C.

---> D

I'll just pretend Smeargle is there to since people nommed that to go down as well under the same premise. When you guys say terrible do you mean terrible as in unethical or terrible in efficiency in regards to BP? Cause I'm quite positive the former applies but the latter doesn't. What Espeon does outside of BP is irrelevant anyways because the whole point of Espeon is Baton Pass. It's a mindless as hell playstyle that works and I don't see why you'd drop it on the premise just because people hate the ever loving shit out of it lol. Also the "most ass strategy in the game" kept Denisss on the top of the ladder for months on end and granted it's been nerfed but Espeon and Smeargle dropped when that happened. Not really seeing the merits of dropping these two.

I still don't agree with Cloyster dropping, here's Albacores post on it from up above.

Eh, this thing isn’t that bad. Yeah, it needs support and lots of it, but it can actually sweep a few teams. It really helps that a lot of Steels and Water types are relatively easy to wear down, Water types with stuff like Toxic Spikes and Steel types because they tend to lack reliable recovery. It also has pretty nice luring capabilities, it can lure either Water types or Steel types with Natural Gift or can even run Explosion to rack up momentum while dealing massive damage to something threatening to your team like Gyarados or Metagross. Besides, Ice STAB is really strong right now, and Cloyster is a pretty good user of it. It’s definitely a hard Pokemon to be used but it can be used to good effect.

Also falls under the people aren't prepped for Ice mons right now category to.

I made this nomination around a month ago but it kinda got ignored. Still, I think this is worthy of a rank, Aerodactyl is a perfectly viable Sash lead, and though Azelf is mostly better because of Skill Swap and Explosion, it has a few perks over it namely the ability to outspeed and anti-lead opposing Azelf, check Talonflame and Tornadus-T which is are big threats for HO, and having access to EdgeQuake coverage letting it offensively threaten Pokemon like Heatran and Charizard. As a SR lead it’s basically a mix between Azelf and Garchomp : like Azelf it has Taunt and high speed, and like Garchomp it can kinda sit there and smack stuff with its very solid coverage. Even though it’s weaker than Garchomp and less reliable than Azelf, its ability to revenge kill faster threats gives it enough of advantage over both of these to be ranked imo.

This was nommed awhile ago but has been getting support from here and outside sources like Trinitrotoluene and his lame offensive teams that a monkey could use, hehe. Seen it do some work so yeah D is fine.

I don't really have a comment on anything else since I either haven't used it a whole lot in the form of Sableye, not sure about Reuniclus although it's a pretty valid nom regardless, and stuff like Gourgeist I sort of think is fine. I'll probably mention some of the lower stuff later that should be moved around later in the day.

Edit: Cut out the details of most posts because it took up half the page. For any ranking guys reading this just know all of these noms can be found on this page up above me.

 

[Dread Arceus]

I'm just hiding this so I won't get fined

Anyway, there's a few changes in my mind right now...

--> D rank, ultra niche TR mon and has competition with Infernape and Victini of all things, the former with better coverage and speed and the latter with more raw power and competes for the TR slot. (sorry xtra$hine)

--> unranked, I haven't seen the arguments for this, but I still have no clue why you would use a non-Mega Gardevoir, other than for the novelty of using a non-Mega Gardevoir.

--> C-, being able to break the bulky waters in the tier is excellent, and can be a massive help to offensive FWG cores. Unlike Celebi, it doesn't add a Dark weakness, which is nice considering the bets spinner and best defogger are both Psychic-type.

That's all I got for now; although I'm not sure why Gorebyss is in D rank while Smeargle is in C-, considering they kinda have the same niche...possibly raise one or lower the other imo

 

[heritage]

Disagreed. By saying this, you're saying that it has no niche whatsoever in OU. Just because it's outclassed doesn't necessarily mean that it's inviable, otherwise we wouldn't have Zygarde, Shuckle, or several other things on the viability ranking. It still has a niche, albeit small, of being able to gain momentum with STAB explosions or returns. Plus, teams at the moment seem to be underprepared for it at best, with DD Mega Altaria being really high in usage. It also has some versatility, and unlike weavile, it can go special to bypass some checks, it also attains near perfect coverage with earthquake and a STAB. Weavile can also not take hits as you said, but it can also run super fang to weaken things that it cannot touch otherwise and make them easy pickings for a revenge killer. It has a small niche on select teams that it fits well on, so I think it's fine in D.

Something I have to say before I get into the actual post, would Glalie really have room on its moveslot for Super Fang? That is cool, but then you have to lose something like Ice Shard or Freeze Dry. I don't see that being worth it.
What exactly do you define as a USEFUL niche? The way I see D-Rank is for Pokemon with small, specialized roles on a team. You mentioned Zygarde and Shuckle, which are excellent illustrations of this. Zygarde has a niche of being a Dragon Dancer that can get around priority and paralysis, on top of having a usable parashuffler set. Shuckle is the face of Sticky Web offense, and even though Sticky Web isn't a particularly good playstyle, it is usable, and Shuckle is the mon you go to for that job. Every Pokemon in D-Rank has some sort of small thing that other, higher ranked Pokemon are unable to accomplish, and they can perform their task to some degree of effectiveness. The difference with Mega Glalie and the rest of D Rank is that it doesn't actually bring anything new to the table. We already have several powerful Ice types that are able to apply a lot of pressure to defensive builds, being Kyurem-B, Mamoswine, and Weavile, and unfortunately Mega Glalie's difference's are not enough to actively justify it's placement. I'm going to put aside the Mega argument for a moment and just compare them to each of the mons I mentioned.

Vs Mamoswine

Hide

Pros
Glalie's Ice STAB is more powerful (considerably more if you opt to run Double Edge over Return)
Glalie's Freeze Dry dishes out more damage
Faster
No Life Orb recoil

Cons
Mamoswine's Earthquake, thanks to STAB, outdamages Glalie's EQ by a significant amount.
Mamoswine's defensive typing is far better, allowing it to check Pokemon such as Manectric, Thundurus, and Raikou
Neutrality to Stealth Rock allows Mamoswine to last longer in switch heavy matches
Better matchup against offense, even if you are interested in running Ice Shard Glalie (Mamo's is significantly more powerful)

Vs Weavile

Hide

Pros
Glalie's Ice STAB is more powerful
Freeze Dry
No Life Orb recoil

Cons
Weavile is crazy fast and actually does well against offense
STAB Knock Off
Swords Dance
Pursuit

Vs Kyurem-B

Hide

Pros
No Life Orb recoil
Slightly faster post mega

Neutral
Ice STABs and Ground coverage hit on opposite sides of the spectrum.

Cons
Kyu-B's Dragon STAB is a nice option
Dragon typing gives it some decent resistances
Fusion Bolt hits basically everything harder than Freeze Dry
Reliable recovery in Roost
Teravolt
Effective mixed attacker, can be skewed towards a certain side in order to surprise would be counters

To sum up the above, the main reasons you would use Mega Glalie over one of the aforementioned Pokemon is that it hits harder with it's Ice STAB, no Life Orb recoil (Which isn't an excuse) and maybe STAB Explosion, but that's such a bad argument as you take out your own Mega Pokemon in the process. The so called "momentum" it gains is moot when you look at other Mega Pokemon (and even some non-Mega Pokemon) who can gain similar or more momentum without killing themselves. In every other way, though, it finds itself lacking to hopelessly outclassed.
Smh I'm done arguing after this since it's been brought up so much but I'm just making points.

 

[Canned Bread]

I'm glad Weavile rose, it was something I intended to bring up after the Clefable discussion concluded.
I've got nothing to add to previous noms at the moment so I'm going to throw one more nom into the mix while I've got the chance.
Post is now heavily edited. Everything I've added has been underlined
Haxorus: D -> Unranked
Haxorus has no niche worth using in ORAS OU. It's Attack is impressive, but it gets no extra notable KOs that better Dragon types such as Dragonite, Garchomp or Zard X, or even non-Dragon DDers such as Mega Gyarados can't get and frankly, in this meta it's a liability. Mold Breaker is good on paper but Excadrill pulls it off far better and Haxorus again gets no extra KOs that Excadrill can't, not even at +1.

Some calcs to illustrate comparisons

Vs Ferrothorn:+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Haxorus Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 172-203 (48.8 - 57.6%) -- 50.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Vs Hippowdon:
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Haxorus Outrage vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Hippowdon: 321-380 (76.4 - 90.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Vs Slowbro:
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Haxorus Outrage vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Slowbro: 316-372 (80.2 - 94.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Vs Mega Scizor:
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Haxorus Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0+ Def Mega Scizor: 174-205 (50.7 - 59.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Haxorus' combination of raw power and Mold Breaker is not enough to distinguish itself as viable in OU. Let us not forget it's reliance on Outrage to deal as much damage as possible. Being locked into Outrage is not ideal but if we don't use Outrage we must use Dragon Claw, which is far weaker and exacerbates the above problem. Such an issue is less applicable to something such as Dragonite as Dragonite can actually switch into a hit due to Multiscale. In addition to this 97 Speed is poor for an offensive mon a sweeper and it's defences are not great considering you'll likely be factoring in Life Orb recoil and will have to take a hit to set up. It is a sub-par wallbreaker because it synergises poorly with Pokemon it should be pairing with. Pure Dragon Type isn't necessarily bad, but considering it's forced to run the same three moves, two of which are very common offensively, it overlaps substantially with other mon, who usually bring more. For this reason, Haxorus cannot break as many walls as it should. I may be missing something huge but I can't see how to justify using this mon. It's outclassed as a wallbreaker through and through by Dragonite, it can't sweep efficiently and Mold Breaker is done far better by Excadrill.

 

[Martin]

--> unranked, I haven't seen the arguments for this, but I still have no clue why you would use a non-Mega Gardevoir, other than for the novelty of using a non-Mega Gardevoir.

The niche of Gardevoir is in Scarf Healing Wish+Fairy typing in combination. It is small, but it warrants use on select teams, as well as acting as a good bluff of mega early-game.

 

[DarkNostalgia]

Gardevoir also has Trace, which is good when it comes to beating weather sweepers such as Kingdra and Excadrill, or tracing stellar abilities such as Sheer Force. It's just a bonus thing, and Gardevoir isn't a Mega Evolution, unlike Mega Alakazam which also has Trace, so that's pretty handy.

 

[Guidorealmsmc]

I'm glad Weavile rose, it was something I intended to bring up after the Clefable discussion concluded.
I've got nothing to add to previous noms at the moment so I'm going to throw one more nom into the mix while I've got the chance.

Haxorus: D -> Unranked
Haxorus has no niche worth using in ORAS OU. It's Attack is impressive, but it gets no extra KOs that better Dragon types such as Dragonite, Garchomp or Zard X, or even non-Dragon DDers such as Mega Gyarados can't get and frankly, in this meta it's a liability. Mold Breaker is good on paper but Excadrill pulls it off far better and Haxorus again gets no extra KOs that Excadrill can't, not even at +1.

Some calcs to illustrate comparisons

Vs Ferrothorn:+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Haxorus Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 172-203 (48.8 - 57.6%) -- 50.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Vs Hippowdon:
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Haxorus Outrage vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Hippowdon: 321-380 (76.4 - 90.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Vs Slowbro:
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Haxorus Outrage vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Slowbro: 316-372 (80.2 - 94.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Vs Mega Scizor:
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Haxorus Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0+ Def Mega Scizor: 174-205 (50.7 - 59.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Haxorus' combination of raw power and Mold Breaker is not enough to distinguish itself as viable in OU. Let us not forget it's reliance on Outrage to deal as much damage as possible. Being locked into Outrage is not ideal but if we don't use Outrage we must use Dragon Claw, which is far weaker and exacerbates the above problem. In addition to this 97 Speed is poor for an offensive mon and it's defences are not great considering you'll likely be factoring in Life Orb recoil and will have to take a hit to set up. I may be missing something huge but I can't see how to justify using this mon.

My problem with many of these arguments is they apply to stuff in the higher ranks. Dragonite also relies on outrage. Plus why compare it to garchomp when both do different things.Not to mentioned you compared it with excadrill which is comparing apples and oranges. Besides 97 speed is good for a wallbreaker which is why one would use it. Plus why calc it with dragon dance when swords dance is better. I'm not going to pretend it is the best thing ever but it still has enough of a niche to stay ranked. Finally you made it to up against mega scizor and ferrothorn which haxorus can run superpower for js.