Tyranitar (QC: 2/3) Dropped; please move to L&O

[Empress]

Taken over from the late PISTOLERO

Tyranitar
QC: 2/3 (Wreckdra, Sweep)
GP: 0/2

Overview
########

The rise of Latios and Latias has given Tyranitar new life in the Uber tier. Its ability to Pursuit trap Latios and Latias is an invaluable asset to any team. Tyranitar also shines in a Flying- and Dark-type dominated metagame, taking on the likes of Dark Arceus, Darkrai, Ho-Oh, and Lugia effectively. Sand Stream is still as good an ability as ever, as it greatly increases Tyranitar's Special Defense, wears down foes with passive damage, and supports Sand Rush Excadrill. On the downside, Tyranitar is complete bait to Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre; both get the type advantage on Tyranitar and their weathers override sand. Tyranitar is also quite slow, so it will nearly always take a hit before it does anything. Most importantly, its poor defensive typing and lack of reliable recovery make it somewhat easy to wear down, limiting its capabilities as a tank. Nonetheless, Tyranitar shines in a metagame infested with Latios, Latias, Flying-types, and Dark-types, so it is worthy of a spot on a team of any archetype, from hyper offense to full stall.

Support
########
name: Support
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Pursuit / Low Kick
move 3: Rock Slide / Stone Edge
move 4: Thunder Wave / Roar
ability: Sand Stream
item: Leftovers / Lum Berry
evs: 248 HP / 96 Def / 168 SpD
nature: Careful

Moves
========

Stealth Rock allows Tyranitar to support its team by inflicting passive damage on foes. Pursuit traps and heavily damages Latios and Latias, both of which are extremely prevalent in Ubers. Low Kick nails important Pokemon such as Darkrai, Dialga, Normal Arceus, and Dark Arceus. It also deals strong damage to Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre on the switch. Rock Slide is a fairly reliable STAB attack that hits the many Flying-type of Ubers for strong damage, though Stone Edge can be used if you wish to trade reliability for power Thunder Wave cripples faster threats, particularly Mega Salamence, allowing Tyranitar to set up Stealth Rock. It can also create a turn for a teammate to enter the battlefield and set up. Roar phazes Pokemon that attempt to use Tyranitar as setup bait and can rack up passive damage alongside Stealth Rock.

Set Details
========

96 Defense EVs are necessary to survive a +1 Earthquake from Adamant Mega Salamence. HP is maximized and the remaining EVs are placed into Special Defense to allow Tyranitar to take on Dark- and Psychic-types more easily. Leftovers promotes Tyranitar's longevity, as it is Tyranitar's only method of reliable recovery. Lum Berry can be used to protect Tyranitar from burns and Darkrai's Dark Void, though the item is not necessary if your team has a cleric.

Usage Tips
========

Tyranitar struggles mightily against Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre, so make sure they are KOed or severly weakened before sending in Tyranitar. Switch Tyranitar into Latios or Latias, then use Pursuit if you predict they will switch. If you think they will stay in, however, nail them with Thunder Wave. After forcing a switch, set up Stealth Rock in most cases. Though Tyranitar can take Flying-type attacks well, it must be careful of coverage moves that Flying-types carry, such as Earthquake on Mega Salamence

Team Options
========

Sand Rush Excadrill appreciates Tyranitar's sand support to double its speed and become a fearsome sweeper. Primal Kyogre and Groudon appreciate the removal of Latios and Latias. Calm Mind Arceus appreciates Tyranitar's ability to scare out Ho-Oh. A cleric such as Clefable can remove status ailments inflicted on Tyranitar. Latios and Latias take on Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre very well. Wish passers such as Blissey and Alomomola provide much-needed recovery for Tyranitar. Blissey also takes on Primal Kyogre and Ground Arceus very well, while Alomomola checks Primal Groudon.

Other Options
########

Rock Tomb can be used to cut foes' Speed for a teammate to use the foe as setup bait. Toxic is the best thing that Tyranitar can do against Primal Groudon; the move also puts a timer on dedicated walls and bulky setup sweepers such as Lugia and Calm Mind Arceus, respectively.
Tyranitar also has a decent special movepool that can allow it to act as a lure; Fire Blast hits Ferrothorn while Ice Beam takes on Mega Salamence. Rest is Tyranitar's only option for immediate recovery, though it's a poor choice if not running Sleep Talk. Earthquake hits Primal Groudon, Mega Diancie, and most Steel-types for good damage. Mega Tyranitar is quite bulky and powerful, but it's a poor choice in Ubers. Tyranitar wishes it could hold another item and the opportunity cost of a Mega slot is too great. Dragon Tail gives Tyranitar a phazing move that is not stopped by Taunt. The move also inflicts chip damage, but it must be used alongside Thunder Wave because Xerneas blocks Dragon Tail. Counter can be used to surprise a physical attacker, particularly Primal Groudon. If running Counter, Shuca Berry will allow Tyranitar to survive an Earthquake from Primal Groudon and KO Primal Groudon with Counter. The item also allows Tyranitar to surprise Mega Salamence and Extreme Killer Arceus.

Checks & Counters
########

**Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre**: Both Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre can easily switch into Tyranitar, overriding the sand brought on by Sand Stream. They take pitiful damage from all of Tyranitar's moves and force it out with little trouble.

**Steel-types**: Dialga and Ferrothorn threaten Tyranitar if it lacks Low Kick, while Klefki and Genesect force Tyranitar off the battlefield even if it is carrying Low Kick.

**Ground-types**: All Ground-types are immune to Thunder Wave, giving offensive variante of Tyranitar trouble. Swords Dance Ground Arceus can use Tyranitar as setup bait and KO it with a +2 Earthquake, though it must be careful of the occasional Roar or Dragon Tail. Sand Rush Excadrill can turn Tyranitar's sand against it, OHKOing with an unboosted Earthquake.

**Fighting-types**: Mega Lucario, Mega Mewtwo X, and Blaziken all outspeed Tyranitar and easily OHKO it with their Fighting-type STAB attacks.

**Coverage Moves**: Several Pokemon that Tyranitar is supposed to check carry coverage moves that can put a dent in its health. For example, Mewtwo often runs Focus Blast, Extreme Killer Arceus and Ho-Oh can use Earthquake, and Ghost Arceus carries Brick Break.

 

[Aberforth]

I would suggest adding sleep talk to the other options list, for a solid darkrai switch option, and not something that checks darkrai after you have already sleep foddered something. Also, Tyranitar can be checked by mewtwo in all of its forms (although mewtwo cannot switch in unless already mega-d megaX), as well as being a fairly safe switch in to things like Diancie and Klefki if you dont carry earthquake.

 

[Magcargo]

Excadrill should be mentioned in team options. If i'm not mistaken, its one of the main reasons Sand is viable in ubers.

 

[Empress]

Excadrill should be mentioned in team options. If i'm not mistaken, its one of the main reasons Sand is viable in ubers.

Blame Pistolero for the lack of Excadrill.

 

[Empress]

Ok- finished writing the skeleton.

 

[Sweep]

Overview

1. Remove the bullet point regarding Tyranitar needing a team built around it. You don't really /need/ Excadrill with this, as it's a good check to the deadly Flying-types in the tier & therefore a viable Pokemon in its own right. It's more of a useful utility Pokemon than anything. Replace it with a bullet point on how Tyranitar lacks reliable recovery.

2. Since Chople Berry is rarely used on Tyranitar these days (largely due to the lack of Focus Blast on Darkrai and Ghost Arceus), Tyranitar doesn't really want to be using Pursuit on Mewtwo. Why would they switch out in the first place? Mega Mewtwo X will OHKO it with Low Kick, Life Orb Mewtwo and Mega Mewtwo Y inflict massive damage with Focus Blast, and the very rare Stalltwo just burns you and heals off damage with Recover. Mega Gengar also usually has Focus Blast (and sometimes carries either Hypnosis or Will-O-Wisp); on stall I would use a trapper Gengar cannot easily break through simply by winning a 50/50. Also note that Ghost Arceus can also burn you as most carry Will-O-Wisp -- except SD which has Brick Break D: -- and Tyranitar would rather status Ghost Arceus with Toxic or Thunder Wave anyway. If Tyranitar uses Pursuit and Ghost Arceus burns you, it's a wasted turn, but if you use say Toxic, you can cripple Ghost Arceus or whatever switches in, assuming your opponent doesn't send in Klefki. TL;DR Pursuit is mostly for Lati@s, and frankly isn't mandatory unless you're using Tyranitar on offense with Primal Kyogre.

Set

3. There's a more efficient EV spread for Tyranitar, I'll post later today when I get access to PS. Max special bulk isn't necessary.

4. Remove Smooth Rock as a potential item, the recovery from Leftovers and the Salamence-boning Shuca offers are too valuable to pass up in favor of the mediocre Smooth Rock. Shuca can also surprise EKiller in conjunction with Low Kick.

5. I'd run two sets on this: the Pursuit support set with Pursuit / Low Kick / Thunder Wave / Stone Edge, or the Stealth Rock set with Stealth Rock / Stone Edge / Low Kick / Toxic. Stone Edge is mandatory STAB and has obvious targets in Ho-Oh and Yveltal. Low Kick is great on any team because it helps offense beat EKiller and stall teams break Arceus-Dark. It also does adequate chip damage to the Primals on the switch without fear of missing a Stone Edge and allows Tyranitar to check Dialga and Darkrai after it sleeps something. I always run both of these moves on Tyranitar, although Low Kick isn't mandatory so much as extremely useful.

I strongly disagree having both Stealth Rock and Pursuit on Tyranitar. It has an awful time switch into Latios AND trying to set Stealth Rock in the same match. Remember how slow Tyranitar is & how difficult it can be to keep it alive for the duration of the match with that mediocre defensive typing. It can only afford to be doing one of those things. I prefer Pursuit on offensive teams as most balance and practically all stall are not pressured that much by Lati@s, but bulky offense with Primal Kyogre likes it removed. Teams that don't need Pursuit can use Tyranitar as their SR setter. Bulky offense also like paralysis support, whereas defensively-oriented teams would benefit more from Tyranitar's ability to spread Toxic around. If you need clarification on any of this, just let me know as I'm aware I did not write these last two paragraphs particularly well x__x. My slashing would be as follows:

move 1: Stealth Rock / Pursuit
move 2: Stone Edge
move 3: Low Kick
move 4: Toxic / Thunder Wave

Counter is alright but not that reliable, I'd put it in Moves but other QC might object.

6. Specify Mega Salamence as a target for Thunder Wave; on Excadrill offense, Tyranitar will be the primary Salamence check.

7. Mention Toxic also cripples walls and CM Arceus formes.

Set Details

8. Remove the Jolly nature mention, Tyranitar needs the bulk. Good job here otherwise, you're right about Shuca being necessary for Counter sets and although other QC will probably disagree, Lum Berry is a pretty cool option for Tyranitar to deal with Darkrai leads, Toxic spam, and stray Sacred Fire burns from Ho-Oh. I'd obviously only use this on teams lacking a cleric, though. Glad this was brought up in Set Details even if it isn't slash worthy.

Team Options

9. Remove the last bullet point, Tyranitar cannot reliably Pursuit-trap any Ghosts in the tier. Sub / Perish Mega Gengar messes this up on the switch, as does Focus Blast...Pursuit isn't OHKOing Gengar if it stays in to attack, which it will if it has Focus Blast D:

10. Mention Wish passers such as Blissey and Alomomola, the former which checks Primal Kyogre and Groundceus and the latter which checks Primal Groudon. Tyranitar really likes Wish because fuck a lack of reliable recovery.

Other Options

11. Mention Dragon Tail as a way to phase through Taunt / deal chip damage (must be used with Thunder Wave bc Killer Deer). Good job here.

Checks & Counters

12. Geomancy Xerneas hates Thunder Wave as well, unless it is running Substitute or Aromatherapy. Also Excadrill exists, so setting up a Geomancy on Tyranitar with 3 or more sand turns left would generally be a terrible idea. "proceeds to sweep your team" should be removed.

13. Mega Mewtwo X and Lucario are still very viable, maybe turn the Blaziken entry into a "Fighting-types" entry.

14. Mention Swords Dance Arceus-Ground, opposing Excadrill and regular Groudon as excellent checks in a "ground-type" section.

I'll address Usage Tips when I have more time, along with the EV spread.

 

[Empress]

Overview

1. Remove the bullet point regarding Tyranitar needing a team built around it. You don't really /need/ Excadrill with this, as it's a good check to the deadly Flying-types in the tier & therefore a viable Pokemon in its own right. It's more of a useful utility Pokemon than anything. Replace it with a bullet point on how Tyranitar lacks reliable recovery.

2. Since Chople Berry is rarely used on Tyranitar these days (largely due to the lack of Focus Blast on Darkrai and Ghost Arceus), Tyranitar doesn't really want to be using Pursuit on Mewtwo. Why would they switch out in the first place? Mega Mewtwo X will OHKO it with Low Kick, Life Orb Mewtwo and Mega Mewtwo Y inflict massive damage with Focus Blast, and the very rare Stalltwo just burns you and heals off damage with Recover. Mega Gengar also usually has Focus Blast (and sometimes carries either Hypnosis or Will-O-Wisp); on stall I would use a trapper Gengar cannot easily break through simply by winning a 50/50. Also note that Ghost Arceus can also burn you as most carry Will-O-Wisp -- except SD which has Brick Break D: -- and Tyranitar would rather status Ghost Arceus with Toxic or Thunder Wave anyway. If Tyranitar uses Pursuit and Ghost Arceus burns you, it's a wasted turn, but if you use say Toxic, you can cripple Ghost Arceus or whatever switches in, assuming your opponent doesn't send in Klefki. TL;DR Pursuit is mostly for Lati@s, and frankly isn't mandatory unless you're using Tyranitar on offense with Primal Kyogre.

Set

3. There's a more efficient EV spread for Tyranitar, I'll post later today when I get access to PS. Max special bulk isn't necessary.

4. Remove Smooth Rock as a potential item, the recovery from Leftovers and the Salamence-boning Shuca offers are too valuable to pass up in favor of the mediocre Smooth Rock. Shuca can also surprise EKiller in conjunction with Low Kick.

5. I'd run two sets on this: the Pursuit support set with Pursuit / Low Kick / Thunder Wave / Stone Edge, or the Stealth Rock set with Stealth Rock / Stone Edge / Low Kick / Toxic. Stone Edge is mandatory STAB and has obvious targets in Ho-Oh and Yveltal. Low Kick is great on any team because it helps offense beat EKiller and stall teams break Arceus-Dark. It also does adequate chip damage to the Primals on the switch without fear of missing a Stone Edge and allows Tyranitar to check Dialga and Darkrai after it sleeps something. I always run both of these moves on Tyranitar, although Low Kick isn't mandatory so much as extremely useful.

I strongly disagree having both Stealth Rock and Pursuit on Tyranitar. It has an awful time switch into Latios AND trying to set Stealth Rock in the same match. Remember how slow Tyranitar is & how difficult it can be to keep it alive for the duration of the match with that mediocre defensive typing. It can only afford to be doing one of those things. I prefer Pursuit on offensive teams as most balance and practically all stall are not pressured that much by Lati@s, but bulky offense with Primal Kyogre likes it removed. Teams that don't need Pursuit can use Tyranitar as their SR setter. Bulky offense also like paralysis support, whereas defensively-oriented teams would benefit more from Tyranitar's ability to spread Toxic around. If you need clarification on any of this, just let me know as I'm aware I did not write these last two paragraphs particularly well x__x. My slashing would be as follows:

move 1: Stealth Rock / Pursuit
move 2: Stone Edge
move 3: Low Kick
move 4: Toxic / Thunder Wave

Counter is alright but not that reliable, I'd put it in Moves but other QC might object.

6. Specify Mega Salamence as a target for Thunder Wave; on Excadrill offense, Tyranitar will be the primary Salamence check.

7. Mention Toxic also cripples walls and CM Arceus formes.

Set Details

8. Remove the Jolly nature mention, Tyranitar needs the bulk. Good job here otherwise, you're right about Shuca being necessary for Counter sets and although other QC will probably disagree, Lum Berry is a pretty cool option for Tyranitar to deal with Darkrai leads, Toxic spam, and stray Sacred Fire burns from Ho-Oh. I'd obviously only use this on teams lacking a cleric, though. Glad this was brought up in Set Details even if it isn't slash worthy.

Team Options

9. Remove the last bullet point, Tyranitar cannot reliably Pursuit-trap any Ghosts in the tier. Sub / Perish Mega Gengar messes this up on the switch, as does Focus Blast...Pursuit isn't OHKOing Gengar if it stays in to attack, which it will if it has Focus Blast D:

10. Mention Wish passers such as Blissey and Alomomola, the former which checks Primal Kyogre and Groundceus and the latter which checks Primal Groudon. Tyranitar really likes Wish because fuck a lack of reliable recovery.

Other Options

11. Mention Dragon Tail as a way to phase through Taunt / deal chip damage (must be used with Thunder Wave bc Killer Deer). Good job here.

Checks & Counters

12. Geomancy Xerneas hates Thunder Wave as well, unless it is running Substitute or Aromatherapy. Also Excadrill exists, so setting up a Geomancy on Tyranitar with 3 or more sand turns left would generally be a terrible idea. "proceeds to sweep your team" should be removed.

13. Mega Mewtwo X and Lucario are still very viable, maybe turn the Blaziken entry into a "Fighting-types" entry.

14. Mention Swords Dance Arceus-Ground, opposing Excadrill and regular Groudon as excellent checks in a "ground-type" section.

I'll address Usage Tips when I have more time, along with the EV spread.

Wowzers- was this really in such bad shape?
Implemented all of the above.

 

[Inspirited]

I believe the spread Sweep is looking for is 248 HP / 92 Def / 168 SpD Careful which allows it takes +1 Adamant Mega Mence EQ, but it need to be at full health to do this keep in mind so it doesn't come into play very often.

Tyranitar also does well on some stall builds also, not just the archetypes you mentioned in the overview, I would add it to the line. This is because it loves huge wishes these teams carry (Blissey, Alomomola, (not huge but) Clefable etc) and these wish passer also have cleric moves so that Tyranitar can hold Leftovers and actually pack some survivability of its own. It also appreciates not having to deal with Spikes (Stall carries Magic Bounce + Defog / Rapid Spin almost guaranteed because of how crucial a full health Lugia is on those teams). All in all the team makes Tyranitar have the staying power to do Tyranitar things a lot more effectively than on other archetypes I feel. these stall members are all applicable in team options as well.

ok. It is time for some usage tips fixes:

This needs a statement about coverage common Flying-types (Ho-Oh and Mega Mence) carry and that the situation needs to be fully addressed as to if Tyranitar can switch in or not. Earthquake will own it on the switch otherwise. This can replace the "strong physical attacks" bullet since this is mighty untrue seeing how Tyranitar can be swapped into the most powerful of these: Strong Flying-type Attacks. Neutral physical attacks are what bother it, but these aren't very common (Bolt Strike and Outrage from Zekrom are the only ones I can think of right now). Tyranitar either resists the physical attack, or is weak to it, there is almost no strong neutral attack in between that I can think of (other than Zekrom, but that thing's true capability is a secret right now ;]). You can talk about the merits of having Tyranitar's and auto sandstorm here also. You can pivot into a resisted attack of which there are many, then end pivot out the next turn expecting coverage that hits Tyranitar if needed. Boom all of a sudden you have 1/8-3/16nths of you opponents health gone just by switching. This doesn't come into play very often, but it can help set up ways to KO's on crucial pokemon in a pinch. Latios and Latias are a very strange case when talking about Tyranitar's Pursuit because you need to Thunder Wave or Toxic Latias in order to beat it if it decides to stay in, and Latios can just sit there and damage Tyranitar for a Ho-Oh. In other words the player needs to weigh Tyranitar's health vs heavily damaging Latias / removing Latios. This damage from Latios could be a very big game changer, especially when paired with Ho-Oh: 252+ SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 168+ SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 181-214 (44.8 - 52.9%). Idk about the first bullet, but I don't have the mental capability to try and fix it right now (if you can't tell by my poor wording, I am very sleepy right now). I will attempt to fix it tomorrow.

For C&C, I would put a mention about coverage. Coverage moves are Tyranitar's worst enemy in many cases like Earthquake Ho-Oh, E-killer can attempt check it with EQ, SD Ghostceus beats Tyranitarwith Brick Break, but is severely hindered by Tyranitar's status move, the special Mewtwo sets use Focus Blast (although it doesn't OHKO most of the time lol).There are others I am forgetting I am sure, but I think you see what I mean.

Get to it! :)

 

[Empress]

I believe the spread Sweep is looking for is 248 HP / 92 Def / 168 SpD Careful which allows it takes +1 Adamant Mega Mence EQ, but it need to be at full health to do this keep in mind so it doesn't come into play very often.

Tyranitar also does well on some stall builds also, not just the archetypes you mentioned in the overview, I would add it to the line. This is because it loves huge wishes these teams carry (Blissey, Alomomola, (not huge but) Clefable etc) and these wish passer also have cleric moves so that Tyranitar can hold Leftovers and actually pack some survivability of its own. It also appreciates not having to deal with Spikes (Stall carries Magic Bounce + Defog / Rapid Spin almost guaranteed because of how crucial a full health Lugia is on those teams). All in all the team makes Tyranitar have the staying power to do Tyranitar things a lot more effectively than on other archetypes I feel. these stall members are all applicable in team options as well.

ok. It is time for some usage tips fixes:

This needs a statement about coverage common Flying-types (Ho-Oh and Mega Mence) carry and that the situation needs to be fully addressed as to if Tyranitar can switch in or not. Earthquake will own it on the switch otherwise. This can replace the "strong physical attacks" bullet since this is mighty untrue seeing how Tyranitar can be swapped into the most powerful of these: Strong Flying-type Attacks. Neutral physical attacks are what bother it, but these aren't very common (Bolt Strike and Outrage from Zekrom are the only ones I can think of right now). Tyranitar either resists the physical attack, or is weak to it, there is almost no strong neutral attack in between that I can think of (other than Zekrom, but that thing's true capability is a secret right now ;]). You can talk about the merits of having Tyranitar's and auto sandstorm here also. You can pivot into a resisted attack of which there are many, then end pivot out the next turn expecting coverage that hits Tyranitar if needed. Boom all of a sudden you have 1/8-3/16nths of you opponents health gone just by switching. This doesn't come into play very often, but it can help set up ways to KO's on crucial pokemon in a pinch. Latios and Latias are a very strange case when talking about Tyranitar's Pursuit because you need to Thunder Wave or Toxic Latias in order to beat it if it decides to stay in, and Latios can just sit there and damage Tyranitar for a Ho-Oh. In other words the player needs to weigh Tyranitar's health vs heavily damaging Latias / removing Latios. This damage from Latios could be a very big game changer, especially when paired with Ho-Oh: 252+ SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 168+ SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 181-214 (44.8 - 52.9%). Idk about the first bullet, but I don't have the mental capability to try and fix it right now (if you can't tell by my poor wording, I am very sleepy right now). I will attempt to fix it tomorrow.

For C&C, I would put a mention about coverage. Coverage moves are Tyranitar's worst enemy in many cases like Earthquake Ho-Oh, E-killer can attempt check it with EQ, SD Ghostceus beats Tyranitarwith Brick Break, but is severely hindered by Tyranitar's status move, the special Mewtwo sets use Focus Blast (although it doesn't OHKO most of the time lol).There are others I am forgetting I am sure, but I think you see what I mean.

Get to it! :)

Did all of these (I think).

 

[Inspirited]

I will speak up about this now that I have spoken to a few people about it, the slashing bothers me! I feel like TTar wants both Pursuit and Stealth Rock on the same set to make it more match up friendly. Hack and I talked it over last night and the only 2 TTar that work best in there own archetypes are the one for balance:
Tyranitar @ Leftovers / Shuca Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 248 HP / 92 Def / 168 SpD
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Thunder Wave
- Rock Slide / Stone Edge
- Pursuit

and the one for Stall:
Tyranitar @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 248 HP / 92 Def / 168 SpD
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Roar
- Rock Slide
- Pursuit

So the slashing that would make sense to me would be:
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Pursuit
move 3: Rock Slide / Stone Edge
move 4: Thunder Wave / Roar (or the other way around)

I am doing this to invoke discussion among the QC members, so don't implement it yet. Stealth Rock and Pursuit give you the best versatility possible although you will only be able to do one per game most likely. You will most likely be setting Stealth Rock though. You could argue that Stealth Rock could be separate, but to quote Hack, "What else is gonna sr on a ttar team? lol". Stall will usually do better if TTar carries Stealth Rock so Primal Groudon can be a mono attacker with Lava Plume, and fitting Stealth Rock on balance means you either give up Spikes, or use your Arceus forme for it, which is something I am personally not a fan of. You can also give up Spikes on stall I guess, but I really don't like that idea at all because I feel like stall needs them to be as effective as possible.

Fireburn Sweep steelphoenix

 

[Sweep]

Stall doesn't really need Spikes, and I wouldn't use Tyranitar on Stall without Low Kick; it's too good at nailing Dark Arceus and also helps check Darkrai and other mons I mentioned already.

Let's talk about this on IRC at some point. I do not like wreckdra's / hack's slashing.

 

[Hack]

I can't say I've never considered Low Kick, but I never used it because the usefulness of SR+Pursuit+Twave+Rock Slide by far outweights the benefits of Low Kick for balance. For stall I'd rather have rest or roar to either stall better or beat psong gengar.

Here are some replays of my TTar teams/stalls:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-ubers-36172 vs Evuelf in SPL, I used pursuit to support the removal of Defog Latias/Latios so Ferrothorn can spike up. Twave+Shuca was used in this game to free up the Ice Beam slot on Waterceus. Rock Slide allows you to check Mence in conjunction with para. Low Kick does not fit on this team for obvious reasons.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-ubers-38579 - vs Fireburn in SPL, Pursuit is intergral to removing Latis while SR frees up my Groudon to be much more threatening. Low Kick isn't really needed on this team as it has enough offensive presence to beat the intended targets of that move.

http://pastebin.com/pC9mV4jQ - Kebabe in POWC. Lended him a stall that for this game used rest ttar (I think it might have been roar) to pp stall CB Ho-oh better. The team has no Low Kick due to the presence of leftovers Blissey with Snatch which alls both Darkrai and Darkceus. On the other hand SR+Pursuit against allows me to play flexible vs Lati teams (rest ttar allows me to get many switch ins on the defog variants) and allows me to abuse restalk Pdon which would otherwise be quite tame.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ubers-222404260 - Astounded uses the same team to easily win a game in UPL.

So can you provide me some replays where you have used a team where Low Kick TTar is so much worth it that you ditch pursuit or SR?

 

[Sweep]

I still feel Low Kick (with some Attack investment, I'll get the spread if need be) is good on some Stall that don't have Clefable or Snatch Blissey, but otherwise I'm convinced. I'd still like Low Kick to be slashed somewhere bc Dark Arceus is still relevant & TTar is a great check with the move. Other than that, alright.

 

[dice]

u use low kick when u don't have another pokemon that can beat arc-dark

u use shuca twave when u need a mence answer

u use pursuit if u need to trap lati@s

 

[Empress]

Oh, dear. Sweep WreckDra Hack dice can you summarize what I should do?

 

[Sweep]

move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Pursuit / Low Kick
move 3: Rock Slide / Stone Edge
move 4: Thunder Wave / Roar

Is this OK with other QC?

 

[Empress]

move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Pursuit / Low Kick
move 3: Rock Slide / Stone Edge
move 4: Thunder Wave / Roar

Is this OK with other QC?

I'll take the likes on your post as a sign of approval. New slash implemented and remaining sections updated accordingly.

 

[Inspirited]

Change the spread to 248 HP / 96 Def / 168 SpD and mention that it lives +1 Adamant Mega Salamence Earthquake at full HP in Set Details.

Do this and you have my QC 1/3.

 

[Empress]

Change the spread to 248 HP / 96 Def / 168 SpD and mention that it lives +1 Adamant Mega Salamence Earthquake at full HP in Set Details.

Do this and you have my QC 1/3.

Done.

 

[Sweep]

qc 2/3

 

[Empress]

qc 2/3

Sweet! Will write this up.
EDIT: Written.
EDIT 2: Wow you guys made a lot of edits here. I'm sorry for wasting your time and effort; someone else who's more qualified should finish this.