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NOC Fallout New Vegas NOC [GAME OVER - Wastelanders Win]
- Thread starter More Cowbell
- Start date
- Status
Wayan Vistar
formerly Flyhn
Can we get another vote count to see how close we are to majority?
Okay so first things first, reply to spiffy:
Firstly, I think the main reason people jumped on jalmont was because the no lynch was nonsense and then the second reason people jumped on him was that his plan was pointless, by that logic at least to me the no lynch discussion was pointless(and my problem with jalmont is still how long it took for him to reveal his ruse after people long moved on from it). Either way what I'm trying to say it posting your opinion on something obvious is non-content for me at least. As for what more I would have wanted you to do, is my exact problem, and makes it sound like you posted for the sake of posting, though I'm most likely influenced by my style of not posting when I have nothing to say. Anyways I'm not say you should have had more content at the time but that you were seemingly spicing up everything with non.content to seem more busy.
The self preservation line wasn't aimed at you, rather was a general comment on my take on the discussion at the time, I do agree with you on the matter, kinda, though by definition when you are defending yourself you are discussing the points of those attacking you, which is hurting if the mafia can just avoid spotlight by tacking a largely neutral stance. Meaning the really hurtful things aren't people who are overly defensive but two stubborn people butting heads and polarising the discussion.
Then you ignore the whole argument that yes you are acting like a NOC village leader, though argument is you took the term literally not thinking about the NOC implications, I'd just like to hear you say whether or not you agree that you are acting like a NOC village leader. As for more posts, as previously mentioned you p much extended nearly every one of your posts with asking people questions to seem busy(which I also don't like at this point because plenty of times(or just once not quite sure) you asked people opinions on people). I mean sure asking questions is nice and all, and it helps pressure people into contributing, but in a way where you dictate what they talk about, I prefer just having the host prod them or point out their non-content if it feels suspicious.
As for your argument on the Cancerous lynch, yeah I think I brain farted there and probably stopped reading after the first sentence, my bad!
Now onto the jalmont discussion. I still don't like his no lynch play, especially the long pause after the convo was dropped and his reveal of it being a ruse, but his post since then felt like he was really confident, I guess? Feels like he really takes it hard when people slightly question his logic, and the von convo made me even more likely to think he actually did plan it all, even though the execution makes me doubt it. Naturally the actual play has no mafia or village indication to it, as again no lynch is really a time waster where people spend time to explain to some players that may think it has some merit. All in all jalmont has given has given plenty for him to contradict in the future so moving on may be on order, which seems to be happening right now.
For the Cancerous push, which also seemed to die off, hey since the whole summary thing he actually gave opinions on people, but it kinda feels like that the attack on him during the summary just pressured him into doing that, lets see how long he can keep it up.
Finally the Haunted Diamond push which is quite recent, Celever does have a point you flipflopped on HD there Spiffy, so I'd love for you to explain more wwhy you originally thought HD's thoughts were satisfying at the time. That being said the points are solid and seems like a beneficial lynch either way it goes, but keeping my Spiffy vote for the interest of not reaching majority yet.
Also Spiffy, I'm disappointed you failed to post a read on me with your only excuse being I made a single post till then, when said single post was essentially me going back in time and doing multiple posts in a single one commenting and replying to issues brought up. What I mean is, you are essentially to a point accusing my multi-post post of having too little content to give a read. While I agree it's a bit barebones, I merely like going back to day 1 and going into more detail when there is relevant future information and behavior to go off, yet I still am disappointed you brush it off as not enough to formulate an opinion when the very implication that you find it lacking should have been a red flag I'd have thought you to raise.
Firstly, I think the main reason people jumped on jalmont was because the no lynch was nonsense and then the second reason people jumped on him was that his plan was pointless, by that logic at least to me the no lynch discussion was pointless(and my problem with jalmont is still how long it took for him to reveal his ruse after people long moved on from it). Either way what I'm trying to say it posting your opinion on something obvious is non-content for me at least. As for what more I would have wanted you to do, is my exact problem, and makes it sound like you posted for the sake of posting, though I'm most likely influenced by my style of not posting when I have nothing to say. Anyways I'm not say you should have had more content at the time but that you were seemingly spicing up everything with non.content to seem more busy.
The self preservation line wasn't aimed at you, rather was a general comment on my take on the discussion at the time, I do agree with you on the matter, kinda, though by definition when you are defending yourself you are discussing the points of those attacking you, which is hurting if the mafia can just avoid spotlight by tacking a largely neutral stance. Meaning the really hurtful things aren't people who are overly defensive but two stubborn people butting heads and polarising the discussion.
Then you ignore the whole argument that yes you are acting like a NOC village leader, though argument is you took the term literally not thinking about the NOC implications, I'd just like to hear you say whether or not you agree that you are acting like a NOC village leader. As for more posts, as previously mentioned you p much extended nearly every one of your posts with asking people questions to seem busy(which I also don't like at this point because plenty of times(or just once not quite sure) you asked people opinions on people). I mean sure asking questions is nice and all, and it helps pressure people into contributing, but in a way where you dictate what they talk about, I prefer just having the host prod them or point out their non-content if it feels suspicious.
As for your argument on the Cancerous lynch, yeah I think I brain farted there and probably stopped reading after the first sentence, my bad!
Now onto the newer stuff, yes it does rehash stuff, because I was commenting on stuff as I read the thread, I was merely trying to emulate me actually posting in reaction to discussions at the time. As for the moi comment, I was merely pointing out that for moi playing with cold hard statistics he missed a quite important part of the calculation that would (slightly) lower the odds he was basing his cleanness on. Not enough to condemn him, but if I wanted to use statistics I would go way out of my way to make them accurate.Serious Bananas said:
Now onto the jalmont discussion. I still don't like his no lynch play, especially the long pause after the convo was dropped and his reveal of it being a ruse, but his post since then felt like he was really confident, I guess? Feels like he really takes it hard when people slightly question his logic, and the von convo made me even more likely to think he actually did plan it all, even though the execution makes me doubt it. Naturally the actual play has no mafia or village indication to it, as again no lynch is really a time waster where people spend time to explain to some players that may think it has some merit. All in all jalmont has given has given plenty for him to contradict in the future so moving on may be on order, which seems to be happening right now.
For the Cancerous push, which also seemed to die off, hey since the whole summary thing he actually gave opinions on people, but it kinda feels like that the attack on him during the summary just pressured him into doing that, lets see how long he can keep it up.
Finally the Haunted Diamond push which is quite recent, Celever does have a point you flipflopped on HD there Spiffy, so I'd love for you to explain more wwhy you originally thought HD's thoughts were satisfying at the time. That being said the points are solid and seems like a beneficial lynch either way it goes, but keeping my Spiffy vote for the interest of not reaching majority yet.
Also Spiffy, I'm disappointed you failed to post a read on me with your only excuse being I made a single post till then, when said single post was essentially me going back in time and doing multiple posts in a single one commenting and replying to issues brought up. What I mean is, you are essentially to a point accusing my multi-post post of having too little content to give a read. While I agree it's a bit barebones, I merely like going back to day 1 and going into more detail when there is relevant future information and behavior to go off, yet I still am disappointed you brush it off as not enough to formulate an opinion when the very implication that you find it lacking should have been a red flag I'd have thought you to raise.
Are you asking specifically about the argument or in general?
That's not what I'm saying at all.
I never said that I never share my thoughts or reads. I said that I purposely withhold it so that I can get reads on other players. I will be open about what I think unless there are good reasons for me to keep it hidden, but I'm not going to share everything I'm thinking because it gives scum a better handle of what exactly I'm going for.
If I'm in a unified townbloc, then it's a lot worse for scum for me to keep my thoughts hidden since not only is it much harder to attack me for it, but it also becomes a much bigger threat on top of that if I happen to be right about a scumread. It's much harder to guess what I caught them with and how to dissipate that scumread as a result when they don't even know what it is.
It's 3 am right now and I kinda need to go to sleep, so I can't post a vote count right now. I will post one tomorrow, though, including everyone's past and present lynch targets.
Anyways, none of the subs are available to play right now, so we will need to deal with Ullar's inactivity right now - sadly, not much we can do about that. That said, I think it's finally time for a definite deadline:
Day 1 ends in 29 hours, at 8 AM GMT+2 (CET Summer Time). If no majority is reached before then, the player with the highest amount of votes placed on them will be lynched.
Good luck to everyone during the last legs of Day 1!
Anyways, none of the subs are available to play right now, so we will need to deal with Ullar's inactivity right now - sadly, not much we can do about that. That said, I think it's finally time for a definite deadline:
Day 1 ends in 29 hours, at 8 AM GMT+2 (CET Summer Time). If no majority is reached before then, the player with the highest amount of votes placed on them will be lynched.
Good luck to everyone during the last legs of Day 1!
I'm really torn on this. The last two paragraphs in the first post are giving me the heebie jeebies, but it's in a way that doesn't make sense as BT-town, BT-scum/Fates-scum, or BT-scum/Fates-town. It makes sense as third party, but it's not something I'm very confident in since it's an isolated incident.
amianki spiffy's ordering is the ordering of players in the very first post, this is also the ordering i will be using
I'm referring to this.
ok here we go
Haunted Diamond - becomes suspicious of jalmont right from the beginning, once jalmont reveals he wanted a no lynch starts being mistrustful of him for much the same reasons as me, but for some reason ignores the fact that i share much of his views because he thinks me and jalmont might be friends or something? i don't understand how he could misread the situation between me and jalmont, and the way he flips quickly from being suspicious of spiffy's lynch on cancerous to voting on cancerous is also very odd. the worst of it is, by voting cancerous after my post he made me look scummy by association. i have no qualms with a vote on haunted diamond since i know i'm village and if everyone thinks either me or him are mafia then it must be him.
Celever - had some heat on him since the beginning and didn't seriously try to defend himself either, and when he said he shared his thoughts on everything relevant it amounted to nothing more than an agreement with my stance on lynching d1 and a vote on sunny. didn't really start posting substantially until he got off his ipad and onto a computer. spiffy calls him out for his active lurking and his none-contribution, celever uses ipad as excuse (tbh i have been following this game half the time on an ipad as well but i guess none of you could tell?), not satisfied with how he defended himself but let's see how he carries himself now that he's on a computer and can post properly. i could see lynching him on d2 and beyond depending on how he posts from here on out.
Jalmont - advocates no lynch from the beginning which i assumed was overcaution and wasn't really concerned about, didn't become suspicious of him until he reversed his position. says he had a plan but because no one tried to lynch him it wasn't carried out, then said he advocated no lynch to gauge people's reactions (as for what he found out god only knows), overall his insistence on moving past this issue i can read as either incompetent mafia backpedalling or incompetent villager trying to cover his failed plan and right now i'm leaning towards the latter. then there was that personal kerfuffle with von even though von was basically defending him. the way he's played so far annoys me and i take everything he says with a grain of salt.
vonFiedler - notably having big debates with both moi and jalmont though the latter was more personal in nature. the way he debated with moi and how he discussed moi overly thinking from the mafia perspective makes me think he is village. annoyed with me and haunted diamond for tunneling on jalmont even after him in his own way has already defended jalmont. even if he wants to lynch me i do enjoy when he posts.
ButteredToast - acting the reasonable guy who doesn't want to step on anyone's toes, what worries me is when he assumes too much stuff, like whether the mafia has day talk and how the game structure is set up, but right now i can put it down to inexperience. also troubling is his insistence on lynching jalmont even if he might be village on the basis that unhelpful villagers should be lynched anyway, this is not a good line of play and i hope he realises this. i appreciate his confidence in me, but i do want to know where this stems from. acts a bit too overly diplomatic for my liking but i cautiously read him as village.
PokeguyNXB - this guy is like butteredtoast in his inexperience except he has taken the opposite approach by making short posts that offer little information and seems to content to follow other people's leads. i feel that he has slipped under the radar a bit and people need to keep an eye on him and force him to say stuff.
LightWolf - i like that he also calls jalmont out on his weird shit, but what i like even more is his calling out of spiffy. posts very little but when he posts it is content-rich. if i weren't so averse to making text walls i would adopt this style next time so i don't get so easily labelled as scum. will be interesting to see how he plays as the game develops. will he post more regularly now that he's been to the dentist?
sunny004 - in much the same boat as PokeguyNXB, people don't expect much from them and in return they get to slip under the radar, is this a line the village should be taking? i'll admit i have been guilty of this what with my preoccupation with jalmont, but i think i will pressure these guys more in the future.
Cancerous - didn't post any significant content until amianki requested a summary, at which point he complied, and then got jumped by jalmont and spiffy. i don't care that he posted a summary after 'inactivity', what i do care about is that his defense after becoming a target was that he was contributing by making amianki discuss moi aka pointless busywork, like what the hell kind of defense is that? he has mixed feelings about me because of my 'connections' to spiffy which i find weird and hilarious at the same time. i don't know if it's the language barrier or what but his attempts at activity are barely better than pokeguy and sunny. i wouldn't have a problem lynching cancerous either but it appears right now we have a better target (NOT ME THOUGH)
Amianki - his activity is decidedly pro-village, i like that he calls butteredtoast on his 'too eager to please' posting style, and he also got an early scumread on haunted diamond as well. like lightwolf he also seems to call out spiffy who may be using the prodding of other players to appear as an active villager. overall i feel good about him.
Serious Bananas - also found jalmont's no lynch gambit suspicious from the start but this was dropped once jalmont backpedalled. has okay reads on butteredtoast and cancerous while his stance on sunny and pokeguy are the opposite to mine. hard to get a read on him as hasn't exactly been actively posting but his habit of defending the inactives aka sunny and pokeguy seems kinda off to me, probably because of my difference of opinion compared to his on these users.
rssp1 - holy fuck this guy posts a lot, gives me the same vibe as butteredtoast except rssp1 seems to move the conversation along a lot more. at this point i'm tired of going through this thread and unfortunately the last two players on the player list have posted the most. i think he's village and let's leave it at that.
Spiffy - spends the majority of his time prodding other players for their opinions, whether this is a mafia trying to appear like a busy villager like others have suggested, right now i'm leaning no. jumped on celever for his active lurking which i don't disagree with, especially given celever's lackluster defense, this has been dropped for now but i will bet good money on spiffy picking this line of thought again later on. seems to be the de facto village leader whether he likes it or not. interesting that lightwolf wants to see spiffy defend himself when his back is against the wall, but right now there isn't really much to go after spiffy for.
oh and just for good luck
Haunted Diamond - becomes suspicious of jalmont right from the beginning, once jalmont reveals he wanted a no lynch starts being mistrustful of him for much the same reasons as me, but for some reason ignores the fact that i share much of his views because he thinks me and jalmont might be friends or something? i don't understand how he could misread the situation between me and jalmont, and the way he flips quickly from being suspicious of spiffy's lynch on cancerous to voting on cancerous is also very odd. the worst of it is, by voting cancerous after my post he made me look scummy by association. i have no qualms with a vote on haunted diamond since i know i'm village and if everyone thinks either me or him are mafia then it must be him.
Celever - had some heat on him since the beginning and didn't seriously try to defend himself either, and when he said he shared his thoughts on everything relevant it amounted to nothing more than an agreement with my stance on lynching d1 and a vote on sunny. didn't really start posting substantially until he got off his ipad and onto a computer. spiffy calls him out for his active lurking and his none-contribution, celever uses ipad as excuse (tbh i have been following this game half the time on an ipad as well but i guess none of you could tell?), not satisfied with how he defended himself but let's see how he carries himself now that he's on a computer and can post properly. i could see lynching him on d2 and beyond depending on how he posts from here on out.
Jalmont - advocates no lynch from the beginning which i assumed was overcaution and wasn't really concerned about, didn't become suspicious of him until he reversed his position. says he had a plan but because no one tried to lynch him it wasn't carried out, then said he advocated no lynch to gauge people's reactions (as for what he found out god only knows), overall his insistence on moving past this issue i can read as either incompetent mafia backpedalling or incompetent villager trying to cover his failed plan and right now i'm leaning towards the latter. then there was that personal kerfuffle with von even though von was basically defending him. the way he's played so far annoys me and i take everything he says with a grain of salt.
vonFiedler - notably having big debates with both moi and jalmont though the latter was more personal in nature. the way he debated with moi and how he discussed moi overly thinking from the mafia perspective makes me think he is village. annoyed with me and haunted diamond for tunneling on jalmont even after him in his own way has already defended jalmont. even if he wants to lynch me i do enjoy when he posts.
ButteredToast - acting the reasonable guy who doesn't want to step on anyone's toes, what worries me is when he assumes too much stuff, like whether the mafia has day talk and how the game structure is set up, but right now i can put it down to inexperience. also troubling is his insistence on lynching jalmont even if he might be village on the basis that unhelpful villagers should be lynched anyway, this is not a good line of play and i hope he realises this. i appreciate his confidence in me, but i do want to know where this stems from. acts a bit too overly diplomatic for my liking but i cautiously read him as village.
PokeguyNXB - this guy is like butteredtoast in his inexperience except he has taken the opposite approach by making short posts that offer little information and seems to content to follow other people's leads. i feel that he has slipped under the radar a bit and people need to keep an eye on him and force him to say stuff.
LightWolf - i like that he also calls jalmont out on his weird shit, but what i like even more is his calling out of spiffy. posts very little but when he posts it is content-rich. if i weren't so averse to making text walls i would adopt this style next time so i don't get so easily labelled as scum. will be interesting to see how he plays as the game develops. will he post more regularly now that he's been to the dentist?
sunny004 - in much the same boat as PokeguyNXB, people don't expect much from them and in return they get to slip under the radar, is this a line the village should be taking? i'll admit i have been guilty of this what with my preoccupation with jalmont, but i think i will pressure these guys more in the future.
Cancerous - didn't post any significant content until amianki requested a summary, at which point he complied, and then got jumped by jalmont and spiffy. i don't care that he posted a summary after 'inactivity', what i do care about is that his defense after becoming a target was that he was contributing by making amianki discuss moi aka pointless busywork, like what the hell kind of defense is that? he has mixed feelings about me because of my 'connections' to spiffy which i find weird and hilarious at the same time. i don't know if it's the language barrier or what but his attempts at activity are barely better than pokeguy and sunny. i wouldn't have a problem lynching cancerous either but it appears right now we have a better target (NOT ME THOUGH)
Amianki - his activity is decidedly pro-village, i like that he calls butteredtoast on his 'too eager to please' posting style, and he also got an early scumread on haunted diamond as well. like lightwolf he also seems to call out spiffy who may be using the prodding of other players to appear as an active villager. overall i feel good about him.
Serious Bananas - also found jalmont's no lynch gambit suspicious from the start but this was dropped once jalmont backpedalled. has okay reads on butteredtoast and cancerous while his stance on sunny and pokeguy are the opposite to mine. hard to get a read on him as hasn't exactly been actively posting but his habit of defending the inactives aka sunny and pokeguy seems kinda off to me, probably because of my difference of opinion compared to his on these users.
rssp1 - holy fuck this guy posts a lot, gives me the same vibe as butteredtoast except rssp1 seems to move the conversation along a lot more. at this point i'm tired of going through this thread and unfortunately the last two players on the player list have posted the most. i think he's village and let's leave it at that.
Spiffy - spends the majority of his time prodding other players for their opinions, whether this is a mafia trying to appear like a busy villager like others have suggested, right now i'm leaning no. jumped on celever for his active lurking which i don't disagree with, especially given celever's lackluster defense, this has been dropped for now but i will bet good money on spiffy picking this line of thought again later on. seems to be the de facto village leader whether he likes it or not. interesting that lightwolf wants to see spiffy defend himself when his back is against the wall, but right now there isn't really much to go after spiffy for.
oh and just for good luck
i could go for either haunted diamond or cancerous, my switch to haunted diamond was a kneejerk reaction to being lumped in with him as best potential mafia candidates
after thinking about it, if haunted diamond turns out village then well shit, and if he turns out mafia it hardly cleans me, i know i'm village but i can't exactly convince you with just that statement, so on balance if you examine it objectively i think haunted diamond has greater odds of being mafia than me and lynching him is a good course for the village to take
after thinking about it, if haunted diamond turns out village then well shit, and if he turns out mafia it hardly cleans me, i know i'm village but i can't exactly convince you with just that statement, so on balance if you examine it objectively i think haunted diamond has greater odds of being mafia than me and lynching him is a good course for the village to take
I'll try to say this one more time just cause it got brought up. Then I'll just live with the opinions you have of me as a result of the Jamlont thing.
All of our information has, from what have seen, been based off of hunches and guesses based on actions. The faults we have with players are that they do not seem town because they "aren't moving conversation" or "aren't contributing anything helpful." All I get from this is that they are either mafia members or bad villagers.
How is that any different from my stance on Jalmont? I am saying I suspect him and I wanted to lynch him because he seemed like mafia and that he is playing the roll of a bad villager. Either on purpose or not. The fact of how he has been portrayed by two users in previous games and the way he has acted in previous games rubs me the wrong way and so does his poor planning. I feel that this isn't his first rodeo and these are pretty excusable reasons. Just because "this is what he does" is not an acceptable answer to me for passing him on. He has played long enough to know what he is doing, and his actions seem anti-town to me.
No matter what we do, we run the risk of mislynching and voting out a town member. At the time I made the post I was not sold on anyone and a few people were tied as being suspicious to me. Including Jalmont. I voted for him at first because he literally asked for people to do so in order for him to talk more. I stuck with my vote because his answer didn't satisfy me and out of the people I had tied for most suspicious. And my only argument for voting him over the other people I had tied with him was voting that worst case is all the people I had tied with him are village, he is the one I think would hurt us the least. It just broke the tie. It wasn't my reasoning.
Don't know what's so bad about factoring that into it. We are the village trying to work together to try and find the dissenters among us. Not only do I see Jalmont as acting in a way that he knows better not to act, but I see him as being a liability later on in the game. Looking at all the options at the time who were suspicious, like cancerous, it's best case he is mafia like we somewhat suspect. Worst case he is village and we lose a player who won Colin Moncrie Mafia. If we vote Spiffy like some people suspect, best case he is mafia. Worst case we lose a guy who is willing to contribute and can help the village down the road. For me, when I look at Jalmont, if we vote for him because of our suspicions, best case he is the mafia. Worst case is that he was town. But unlike the other people he is town with weird quirks who rub people the wrong way and has shaddy motives that no one but him understand. I feel he represents the a tie for the best chance to be mafia. And out of those ties, the worst person to give info to the town.
Let me say this though. The way you guys have acted in a result to his answers and to his statements, and subsequently me, has kind of convinced me to lay off of him for now. I still suspect him of being mafia. And I still don't think he will help the town out a lot. But this is a team game. I voiced my opinion and my reasoning and it doesnt seem to go over well. So I will pull off of it for now and head in a different direction. I did say I wanted imput and for people to give me a reason to change, so I'll listen.
Unlynch Jalmont
Honestly am not sure where else we are going. I'm not convinced by haunted diamond being mafia more so than I am others but if enough people feel it's enough for them, I'll go for with that. While I don't like following, I am here to learn as well.
Also, fate, my confidence in you has to do with being familiar with your posts and how you see things/subjects in smart and humerus ways. Nothing else. I respect your opinion because you say things well and conscious and don't flower things with superfluous language. Besides moi, who I have played fantasy baseball with for 4 years and know from baseball talks on here, you're the only other person I have a read on.
All of our information has, from what have seen, been based off of hunches and guesses based on actions. The faults we have with players are that they do not seem town because they "aren't moving conversation" or "aren't contributing anything helpful." All I get from this is that they are either mafia members or bad villagers.
How is that any different from my stance on Jalmont? I am saying I suspect him and I wanted to lynch him because he seemed like mafia and that he is playing the roll of a bad villager. Either on purpose or not. The fact of how he has been portrayed by two users in previous games and the way he has acted in previous games rubs me the wrong way and so does his poor planning. I feel that this isn't his first rodeo and these are pretty excusable reasons. Just because "this is what he does" is not an acceptable answer to me for passing him on. He has played long enough to know what he is doing, and his actions seem anti-town to me.
No matter what we do, we run the risk of mislynching and voting out a town member. At the time I made the post I was not sold on anyone and a few people were tied as being suspicious to me. Including Jalmont. I voted for him at first because he literally asked for people to do so in order for him to talk more. I stuck with my vote because his answer didn't satisfy me and out of the people I had tied for most suspicious. And my only argument for voting him over the other people I had tied with him was voting that worst case is all the people I had tied with him are village, he is the one I think would hurt us the least. It just broke the tie. It wasn't my reasoning.
Don't know what's so bad about factoring that into it. We are the village trying to work together to try and find the dissenters among us. Not only do I see Jalmont as acting in a way that he knows better not to act, but I see him as being a liability later on in the game. Looking at all the options at the time who were suspicious, like cancerous, it's best case he is mafia like we somewhat suspect. Worst case he is village and we lose a player who won Colin Moncrie Mafia. If we vote Spiffy like some people suspect, best case he is mafia. Worst case we lose a guy who is willing to contribute and can help the village down the road. For me, when I look at Jalmont, if we vote for him because of our suspicions, best case he is the mafia. Worst case is that he was town. But unlike the other people he is town with weird quirks who rub people the wrong way and has shaddy motives that no one but him understand. I feel he represents the a tie for the best chance to be mafia. And out of those ties, the worst person to give info to the town.
Let me say this though. The way you guys have acted in a result to his answers and to his statements, and subsequently me, has kind of convinced me to lay off of him for now. I still suspect him of being mafia. And I still don't think he will help the town out a lot. But this is a team game. I voiced my opinion and my reasoning and it doesnt seem to go over well. So I will pull off of it for now and head in a different direction. I did say I wanted imput and for people to give me a reason to change, so I'll listen.
Unlynch Jalmont
Honestly am not sure where else we are going. I'm not convinced by haunted diamond being mafia more so than I am others but if enough people feel it's enough for them, I'll go for with that. While I don't like following, I am here to learn as well.
Also, fate, my confidence in you has to do with being familiar with your posts and how you see things/subjects in smart and humerus ways. Nothing else. I respect your opinion because you say things well and conscious and don't flower things with superfluous language. Besides moi, who I have played fantasy baseball with for 4 years and know from baseball talks on here, you're the only other person I have a read on.
so are you saying that it would be preferable for me to idle than say anything at all? i can do that if you'd like xD
(the problem i have with voting off of who will be a "liability" is that it essentially rewards not playing at all, which is something i'm not a big fan of doing...but meh i guess)
fate's post is good on the surface but the fact that he doesn't make explicit who he finds to be mafia/village bothers me. i don't like that i had to ask him who he wanted to vote which i think people should have good ideas at this point (at the very least "i want to vote x, y, or z")
more later once i finish this math yeyeye
(the problem i have with voting off of who will be a "liability" is that it essentially rewards not playing at all, which is something i'm not a big fan of doing...but meh i guess)
fate's post is good on the surface but the fact that he doesn't make explicit who he finds to be mafia/village bothers me. i don't like that i had to ask him who he wanted to vote which i think people should have good ideas at this point (at the very least "i want to vote x, y, or z")
more later once i finish this math yeyeye
are you kidding me this is why i don't like making wall of text posts, remind me to type 'village' and 'mafia' in bold next time i make one of these
also i explicitly state i would vote for haunted diamond, cancerous, and celever, the fact that poor you had to ask me again speaks more to your reading comprehension skills more than anything
ok so unless i'm misreading what was said it looks like Haunted has basically been trying to get reasoning for lynches (I assume so he can better understand why to vote them) and after hearing an explanation to lynch Cancerous along with some reading of own (which I have several thoughts as to what the point of that was, but i'll just go ahead and ask Haunted what that means), he thought that Cancerous was scummy, so he lynched him.
...and that makes him scum?
Pardon me if i'm completely misunderstanding, but how does that make any sense?
...and that makes him scum?
Pardon me if i'm completely misunderstanding, but how does that make any sense?
Yeah I read a bit more and unless i'm completely reading this Haunted lynch wrong it straight up doesn't sit right with me. I don't understand the arguments.
Lynch Cancerous still my strongest scumread, and I think one of the arguments (that he's only active when pressured) has some legitimacy... because.. well... where has Cancerous been lately? He hasn't been pressured very much, and he disappeared (could be due to irl stuff, though : /).
Anyone think the strange possibility of SB reflecting his own thoughts onto the discussion is true here?
I also think the part where LightWolf says Spiffy is acting like a traditional NOC town leader is true (he said something like that, I obviously didn't quote it exactly).
Lynch Cancerous still my strongest scumread, and I think one of the arguments (that he's only active when pressured) has some legitimacy... because.. well... where has Cancerous been lately? He hasn't been pressured very much, and he disappeared (could be due to irl stuff, though : /).
I think this point here is interesting and worth some discussion. I know for a fact that I myself wasn't thinking about the third party unless it was brought up by someone else, and mafia being paranoid about third party seems plausible, but so does the possibility of a careful town thinking of every possibility.
Anyone think the strange possibility of SB reflecting his own thoughts onto the discussion is true here?
I also think the part where LightWolf says Spiffy is acting like a traditional NOC town leader is true (he said something like that, I obviously didn't quote it exactly).
It would be better to me if you contributed in a way that made sense instead of half assing it. It would be better if you took a team mentality and try not to overcompensate for not reading. All it seems you are doing is trying to pass off as a good villager when in fact you are not a good villager. Problem is I can't tell if you are being mafia or if you're just trying to seem smarter/more caring than what you really are. But you know better than to do the things you are doing. And it frustrates me. And this whole thing asking fate questions he literally just answered bugs me too.
I don't know if you just bit off more than you can chew with a NOC game, but going in, you should know it's going to be a lot of talk and discussion and a very mental, unorganized game. There are going to be long discussions and long posts that you're going to have to read. And you're going to have to watch your actions.
You ask if I would have preferred you do nothing at all. No, I wouldn't prefer it. I want you to talk and be involved. However, if you are, I expect you to at least care. I at least understand if going through 15 pages of indirect garble is boring and you dont want to waste your time with it. I understand guys like Ullar. I'm not happy at him for signing up and not taking the commitment but I get it.
With you, you're trying to do something but you're doing it wrong. You don't really want to read or contribute or think, but you want to appear to be involved. I don't know if this is because you aren't interested because you are mafia and all this doesnt actually matter and you're just in it for appearances. Or if you are just a bad villager who has some kind of ego or wants things spoon fed to him without thinking. Or what it is. But whatever it is, it's fake as hell.
Honestly. I had done some thinking in between signing up and starting the game on what to look for. One of the first thoughts on my list is that the bad Mafia members would be disinterested in long conversations about people other than themselves or other mafia members purely because you dont care who is village or mafia because you already know. And getting actively involved in long discussions on people would be boring because it has no pertinence to your game.
I also felt that bad mafia members would want to get through day one quickly so that they would be able to get their information and do their actions during the night. The day is for the village and the night is for the mafia. People who have mafia roles and are too lazy to put time into hiding things would just want a quick vote and a quick end to conversations and move on into night.
I feel like you are doing BOTH of these things. I think your actions peg you into being a lazy mafia member. You don't care enough to read posts of other people when it doesn't concern you. You don't want to read Fates posts because what do you care the reasons if someone is village or mafia. You just want to get the information you need spoon fed because the day doesn't matter. Also, you cared so much because about no lynch because it was actually relevant to the mafia. You were too lazy to read the rest of the conversation because what does the day matter to you. Just throw out no lynch. And you weren't reading anything but the comments on lynching because it's the only thing that mattered to you. And you posted your thoughts late and of topic because you were too lazy to pretend to read everything else. And when you were called out for it being weird, you make up this story and go "oh i dunno I was just trying or kidding." You continue on this lazy streak until von's posts because it was personal to you. And now you're interested now and I think it's because we're hitting on one of your team mates.
The ONLY reason I am not convinced you are not mafia is because people have said how bad of a player you have been in the past, and it leads support to that you're just a lazy village. But all of your actions say you are mafia to me. And there is nothing you have done to make up for that.
Yeah, this is a rant. But your question just set me off in frustration. And your asking these dumb questions that you can find if you just read. And you're derailing our conversations based on your laziness either as a mafia technique or because you are just not committed. And that 50/50 shot is way better than any shot I could make at anyone else right now. And if I'm on the wrong side of the coin flip, I think I could live with myself better than if I could being wrong on Fate or Spiffy or Cancerous or anyone else.
Props to anyone who goes through this. And sorry I broke my word on leaving Jalmont alone.
ok i have been trying to type up a reply to rssp1 and i think the reason why some users see haunted diamond as lynchworthy is because they see both haunted diamond and i as scumbuddies since our actions align a little too conveniently, but i know i'm not scum, so the question i had to ask myself is, what makes haunted diamond lynchable to me? the most pertinent answer i can find the fact that he flipped so quickly between being suspicious of spiffy and then hopping on board a cancerous lynch primarily led by spiffy, without giving much of a justification. would that be enough to convince me normally? probably not. but the quandary that i face is that if i remove my vote from haunted diamond then i am in effect painting a lynch target on my own back, and i certainly don't want that to happen. so if there are those of you out there who can be convinced that i'm not scum you need to ask yourself, if it turns out that fatecrashers isn't scum, would haunted diamond still be so lynchable?
ButteredToast what do you mean by having to "watch your actions"?
Fatecrashers' reply was obviously meant to defend himself instead of fully explaining the reasoning for lynching Haunted (unless that's the full reasoning, in which case I stand by my opinion that the wagon is wrong) so I guess i'm going to have to wait for someone else on the wagon to explain it to me, since I still don't understand it : /
Fatecrashers' reply was obviously meant to defend himself instead of fully explaining the reasoning for lynching Haunted (unless that's the full reasoning, in which case I stand by my opinion that the wagon is wrong) so I guess i'm going to have to wait for someone else on the wagon to explain it to me, since I still don't understand it : /
rssp1 i just told you the main reasoning is because people see me and haunted as scumbuddies, like if you go to spiffy's big post that's the reasoning he essentially gives, if you think that reasoning is wrong then that's absolutely cool with me
also my reply was partly to defend myself and partly warning the wagoners to be cautious about the road they're heading down, just consider other possibilities
Both sides need to watch what they are doing from day one. If you are village, you need to act in a way that is helpful and thought out long term. If you do something stupid, you are going to get unwanted pressure on you and distract from the goals of the village to find the mafia. The most hurtful thing a villager would do day one was to act in a way that makes him seem like a mafia and get mislynched, costing their team time.
If you are mafia, obviously you need to watch your actions since you are acting one way and appearing another. Not sure this needs much explanation. Everything you do is to make appearances and if you do something that doesn't make sense as a villager, you're toast.
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