OU Talonflame (Revamp)

[DarkNostalgia]

I think you should also mention that max Speed Talonflame outpriorizes Weavile's Ice Shard, which is quite important because SR + Ice Shard + BB recoil = dead Talonflame, while outprioritizing Weavile means Talonflame doesn't die.

 

[Shurtugal]

Can we OO mention Steel Wing on the Band set? It OHKOs Diancie - which is certainly an option for teams who don't need Wisp / Tailwind / Roost and struggle with Diancie.

 

[AM]

Can we OO mention Steel Wing on the Band set? It OHKOs Diancie - which is certainly an option for teams who don't need Wisp / Tailwind / Roost and struggle with Diancie.

It's slashed

 

[Lumari]

re. 'Nothing', unless something has changed (which I then assume site staff should be aware of) there has to be a recognised item name in the item slot, otherwise the SCMS/CMS spits out an integrity error, and you just have to leave it blank if you don't run an item. (http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/spelling-and-grammar-standards.3490681/page-7#post-5687585) So yeah you can't put 'Nothing' in that slot, and I honestly don't really know what to do about that without making the sets confusing as all hell... For now, I removed 'Nothing' on the offensive SD set and emptied the entire slot on the bulky sets, thereby effectively relegating all secondary item choices to Set Details, which at the very least is more elegant than having Leftovers look like an unslashed option for sets that prefer itemless Acrobatics. If you or anybody knows a better solution by all means go ahead, but as far as I can see technology isn't exactly cooperating right now lol.

remove
add (Capitalize)
(comments); (AC=add comma; RC=remove comma; SC=semicolon)

talonflame

[OVERVIEW]

With Gale Wings giving it very powerful priority to abuse moves in Brave Bird and Acrobatics, its excellent Speed enabling it to outpace almost the entire OU metagame, a great offensive typing, and access to boosting moves in Swords Dance and Bulk Up, Talonflame is one of the greatest offensive threats in the OU metagame. It can also serve as a very potent defensive Pokemon, with a decent support movepool consisting of Will-O-Wisp, Taunt, and U-turn, a solid defensive typing with resistances to common types such as Ground, Fighting, Fire, and Fairy, and priority on its recovery move, enabling it to stall out offensive Pokemon a lot more easily. However, it also suffers from glaring flaws, such as a crippling 4x weakness to Stealth Rocks, lackluster initial power provided by a base 81 Attack stat, lack of offensive coverage making it relatively easy to wall, and mediocre bulk which mitigates mitigating the nice defensive capabilities brought by its typing and support options.

[SET]
name: Offensive Swords Dance
move 1: Brave Bird / Acrobatics
move 2: Flare Blitz
move 3: Swords Dance
move 4: Roost
item: Sharp Beak / Nothing
ability: Gale Wings
nature: Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Brave Bird is Talonflame's most important move, and it hits very hard and has priority, enabling it Talonflame to break past Choice Scarf Pokemon such as Keldeo as well as priority users which that may try to revenge kill Talonflame such as Azumarill. (mention Acrobatics too) Flare Blitz is Talonflame's best option against Steel- and Electric-types such as Excadrill, Thundurus, Raikou, and Magnezone, (AC) respectively. Swords Dance enables Talonflame to increase its Attack to dangerous levels, helping it sweep offensive teams, (AC) which typically lack Pokemon that resist Flying, and put large dents in bulkier teams as well. Roost helps Talonflame set up, stops it from going down from Brave Bird recoil, negates Stealth Rock damage, and generally gives it some longevity. Taunt is an option for breaking past certain defensive Pokemon; however, by running it, Talonflame either loses either important coverage or reliable recovery.

Set Details
========

Gale Wings is the best ability for Talonflame because it gives it priority on Brave Bird and Roost. Sharp Beak increases Brave Bird's power. It is preferred over Life Orb because its recoil combined with Brave Bird's wears down Talonflame very quickly and often prevents it from sweeping (RC) and because most Flare Blitz targets are already hit hard enough without a Life Orb. (mention itemless too) 252 Speed EVs enable Talonfame to at least Speed tie with opposing Talonflame and outspeed opposing Weavile, thus avoiding getting revenge killed by Ice Shard if weakened. 168 Speed EVs with a Jolly nature can be used if you're not worried about opposing Talonflame; (SC) and they're still enough to outspeed Thundurus, Choice Scarf Magnezone, and specifically Raikou, beyond which there are no relevant threats worth outspeeding that aren't already hit harder by Brave Bird than Flare Blitz, and the spread gives Talonflame a bit more bulk, (AC) which helps it set up. 252 Attack EVs maximize Talonflame's damage output, and the rest are put into bulk in order for Talonflame to set up more easily and switch into Stealth Rock twice.

Usage Tips
========

Early- and mid-game, you should just use it Talonflame as a regular attacker or use it to revenge kill weakened threats (RC) and switch into Grass- and Fighting-types. Try your best to keep it healthy via Roost. Always try to keep entry hazards off the field at all cost so that Talonflame can switch in more freely. If you can find an opening to sweep, try to set up. However, you may have to force switches in order to do so, as there are few opportunities where Talonflame can safely set up due to its rather poor bulk. If the opponent has something like Scizor, Celebi, or Mew, which Talonflame easily walls, try to keep it (you mean Scizor/Celebi/Mew, not Talon, right? In that case probably change 'keep it' to 'leave this foe' for clarity) alive, as this will enable you to set up later on. But (don't start a sentence with 'but') Sometimes, however, you may want to set up early in order to weaken a threat to your team such as Heatran or Rotom-W. Be careful when switching Talonflame into Clefable or Ferrothorn, as they often carry Thunder Wave and can therefore cripple Talonflame, making it much easier for Flare Blitz targets like such as Raikou or and Thundurus to revenge kill it.

Team Options
========

Talonflame requires hazard removal. Starmie is particular is an excellent partner to Talonflame, as it counters Heatran and Hippowdon, (space)which are 2 two big threats to Talonflame. Latios is also quite a good Talonflame partner because it switches into Rotom-W and other Electric-types (add hyphen) such a Zapdos and Mega Manectric. However, both of these are very vulnerable to being trapped by Choice Scarf Tyranitar and require support from a Pokemon able capable (or 'able to take') of taking advantage of it. Kyurem-B is a good partner for Talonflame since, because it not only does it target can hit Rotom-W with Earth Power (RC) but it also handles can handle (or keep 'handles' and change 'thanks to' to 'with') other Water types thanks to Bolt Strike and Ground types thanks to Ice Beam. In return, Talonflame can revenge kill faster attackers like such as Mega Lopunny or and Mega Gallade, (AC) which threaten Kyurem-B. Keldeo also makes for an excellent Talonflame partner, as it handles Hetran, Tyranitar, Hippowdon, and Rhyperior. In return, Talonflame beats Celebi and other Grass-types such as Tangrowth, which are able to beat Keldeo. Talonflame also needs something to handle Water-types such as Alomomola and Slowbro; Celebi, Thundurus, or Raikou can do this job well. Ferrothron Ferrothorn is a particularly good partner because it, unlike the other Pokemon mentioned, can weaken Landorus-T to the point where +1 Brave Bird will KO it and counters Diancie, a huge threat to Talonflame, although it does not appreciate Scald burns inflicted by bulky Water-types. Talonflame appreciates the support of Pokemon that are able to weaken its counters. For instance, Latios wears down Heatran (or can outright lure KO (Earthquake obviously doesn't 'lure' Heatran, that'd be strange; if you want to keep 'lure', 'lure it and KO it with EQ' should be fine) it via with Earthquake) and Diancie, Azumarill can cripple Rotom-W, and Diggersby weakens Slowbro. Pokemon that can force Choice Scarf Landorus-T to use Earthquake as opposed to Stone Edge or U-turn, such as Diancie (RC) and Garchomp, can give Talonflame a free opportunity to use Swords Dance and then sweep.

[SET]
name: Bulky Swords Dance
move 1: Acrobatics / Brave Bird
move 2: Roost
move 3: Swords Dance
move 4: Will-O-Wisp / Taunt
item: Nothing / Leftovers
ability: Gale Wings
nature: Adamant
evs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Acrobatics acts as Talonflame's only offensive move on this set; it has priority (RC) and is quite powerful after a boost. It is preferred over Brave Bird because its lack of recoil enables Talonflame to sweep without having to worry about being KOed by its own recoil. However, Brave Bird is still an option for its higher Base Power, and then Leftovers can be run to provide some recovery. Roost is a very important move on this set, because without it Talonflame cannot consistently set up and will get worn down too much over the course of the battle. Swords Dance enables Talonflame to set up, letting it break past Mega Sableye and possibly pull off a sweep. After just one Swords Dance, it hits quite hard and can find many opportunities to set up thanks to its bulk. Will-O-Wisp is a very useful move on Talonflame, as it enables Talonflame to disable physical attackers, such as Tyranitar, Rhyperior, and Tyrantrum. It also helps wear down defensive Pokemon, such as Rotom-W, Hippowdon, (space)and Slowbro, as well as special attackers such as Mega Manectric, Thundurus, and Raikou. It also helps Talonflame dodge Sucker Punches from Bisharp and set up on Foul Play Mandibuzz that lack Toxic or Whirlwind. Taunt is also a good option on Talonflame. It enables Talonflame to stallbreak, stopping Pokemon that rely on status to check it such as Heatran, Rock-type move-lacking Hippowdon, Alomomola, Mandibuzz, and certain variants of Skarmory, and Taunt also enables Talonflame to beat Unaware Calm Mind Clefable.

Set Details
========

Gale Wings gives Talonflame priority on both its main STAB move and its recovery move, enabling it to both set up and sweep more easily. Talonflame runs no item on this set to double the power of Acrobatics and switch into Knock Offs from the likes of Bisharp and Landorus-T more easily. If Talonflame runs Brave Bird, it should run Leftovers to give it passive recovery and enable it to set up more easily. Because Talonflame has priority on its only offensive move, it does not need Speed in order to sweep. 248 HP EVs enable Talonflame to take hits better and give it an easier time setting up. Maximizing Talonflame's Attack stat and giving it an Adamant nature enables it to hit hard after a boost, OHKOing the likes of Latios, Landorus, Mamoswine, Starmie, and Azumarill after Stealth Rock damage after a Swords Dance boost. 8 Speed EVs enable Talonflame to outspeed Kyurem-B running a neutral Speed nature and burn it. Having 60 Speed EVs is also an option, enabling Talonflame to outspeed Jolly Excadrill outside of sand. Running 88 Speed EVs with a Jolly nature is an option to outspeed Mega Pinsir and KO it before it can hit Talonflame with Quick Attack, as well as outspeed and burn Garchomp. 176 Speed EVs with a Jolly nature can also be used to outspeed Choice Scarf Tyranitar, but it sacrifices a lot of bulk, so it isn't worth it in most cases.

Usage Tips
========

This Pokemon is mainly a setup sweeper with to utility moves, but it can also act as a revenge killer, forcing out Pokemon that have KOed a member of your team. You should always try to keep entry hazards off the field before sending Talonflame in. However, if you are facing a Pokemon that cannot threaten Talonflame such as Scizor or Skarmory and if Stealth Rock is set up, you you may want to send it in; (SC) but however, make sure to use Roost immediately afterwards. If you run Will-O-Wisp, abuse it early- to mid-game in order to wear down Talonflame's checks. If you run Taunt, it is better to use it if attempting to set up late-game. Don't try to set up unless all checks to Talonflame are gone or if Talonflame isn't important to the team and you would rather weaken a physical wall for one of your its teammates. If running Taunt, try to scout the movepools of the Pokemon Taunt is supposed to cripple before using it on them, so that you know it isn't running an offensive move to hit you with. However, this can be a bit tricky when facing Stealth Rock users such as Heatran or and Hippowdon, [ac] which will often attempt to set up Stealth Rock against Talonflame assuming they aren't it isn't up already. Taunting them once and then immediately switching out could be a good move; [semi > comma] however, this is risky and revealing Taunt may be detrimental, so you shouldn't do this too early in the battle. Be careful of status moves from Pokemon Talonflame is supposed to switch into such as Clefable and Ferrothorn. Toxic specifically is very crippling for Talonflame, but paralysis can also be problematic because it leaves Talonflame outsped by Will-O-Wisp targets, particularly Bisharp.

Team Options
========

Talonflame needs an entry hazard remover in order to properly function properly. Starmie is an excellent partner, particularly to (probably? kinda hard to make sense of this sentence otherwise) the Will-O-Wisp variant because it baits in Tyranitar, which can Pursuit trap Starmie, (AC) and counter counters Bisharp, and while Starmie in return handles Heatran and Hippowdon, which can poison it Talonflame. However, (AC) Starmie needs to be paired up with something that can handle Electric-types. Latias and Latios are good entry hazard removers that can handle most Electric-types; they once again benefit hugely from Tyranitar being burned, are able to lure Heatran, (AC) and, (AC) if running Roost, and can easily take on variants of Hippodonthat Hippowdon that lack Toxic; (SC) and those carrying Toxic are set up on by Taunt variants of Talonflame. (make sure that I didn't butcher anything because I really wasn't that sure what was going on here) A good answer to Electric-types is required because Talonflame is vulnerable to them. Hippowdon, Clefable, and Choice Scarf Landorus-T can all serve as checks to the likes of Manectric, Raikou, and Thundurus. Talonflame also needs an answer to bulky Water-types such as Slowbro, which can handle it regardless of whether it runs Taunt or Will-O-Wisp. Bulky Grass-types such as Celebi and Venusaur can handle these for Talonflame, and they make for particularly good partners given their ability to form a Fire/Water/Grass core. Electric-types such as Mega Manectric and Raikou can also handle Water-types for Talonflame, though most Electric-types are worn down by Scald and cannot switch in consistently due to their lack of recovery.

[SET]
name: Specially Defensive
move 1: Acrobatics / Brave Bird
move 2: Roost
move 3: Bulk Up / Taunt
move 4: Will-O-Wisp / Taunt
item: Nothing / Leftovers
ability: Gale Wings
nature: Careful
evs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Acrobatics is Talonflame's main STAB move, and it is powerful, has priority, and comes with no drawbacks. Brave Bird can be used if you want the passive recovery of Leftovers and slightly more power; however, the damage difference between it and Acrobatics is mostly irrelevant on a defensive set like this. Roost is needed for Talonflame to wall the threats it needs to consistently. Thanks to its priority, it also lets Talonflame take Volt Switches from Pokemon such as Rotom-W and Raikou, which is very useful. Bulk Up both increases both Talonflame's damage output and bulk, not just enabling it to sweep but also preventing it from being stopped by physical attackers that can live a boosted Acrobatics. Will-O-Wisp cripples the physically offensive Rock- and Ground-type Pokemon that tend to switch into it Talonflame. Combined with Will-O-Wisp, it can enable Talonflame to set up on physical attackers that should be able to beat it such as Hippowdon, Azumarill, and defensive Landorus-T, though the latter can hit Talonflame with Earthquake while it Roosts, so be wary. Taunt stops Toxic, Whirlwind, Roar, and Taunt users from phazing Talonflame and prevent or preventing it from sweeping. Running Taunt alongside Will-O-Wisp over a setup move is an option; however, it leaves Talonflame walled by Mega Sableye, which it can otherwise beat without too much difficulty.

Set Details
========

Gale Wings gives Talonflame priority on Acrobatics, which enables it to both revenge kill weakened foes and seep sweep after a few boosts, and priority on Roost, enabling it to stall out fast foes and play around fast Volt Switch users. Talonflame runs no item on this set to increase the power of Acrobatics and switch into Knock Offs from the likes of Bisharp and Landorus-T more easily. If Talonflame runs Brave Bird, it should run Leftovers to give it passive recovery. Maximizing Talonflame's Special Defense enables it to switch into special attackers such as Mega Charizard Y, Mega Altaria, Clefable, and Landorus as well as Gengar to a lesser extent. 8 Speed EVs enable Talonflame to outspeed and burn neutral-natured Kyurem-B. 60 Speed can also be run in order to outspeed Jolly Excadrill.

Usage Tips
========

As for usual with Talonflame, removing entry hazards is a priority, but if you don't get the opportunity to do so, you may need to send Talonflame in on big threats to your team it handles well such as Mega Charizard Y. Send Talonflame in against the Pokemon it walls, but make sure to keep its health high enough to be able to switch in multiple times. Bulk Up is mainly a tool for cleaning and getting past Sableye, so you should only use it when it enables you to sweep. Until then, you should focus on abusing Will-O-Wisp or Taunt and keeping Talonflame healthy with Roost. Be careful when using Roost, as certain Pokemon such as Landorus and Hippowdon may take advantage of the fact that Roost removes Talonflame's Ground immunity and hit it hard with a Ground-type move. On the other hand, if Talonflame is not at full health and facing a Volt Switch user, it may be a good idea to take advantage of the fact that Roost removes Talonflame's Electric weakness and Roost against these Electric-types as they Volt Switch to gain momentum, not only getting health back but also forcing them out into something that presumably can't handle Talonflame as well, as Electric-types are often used to check Talonflame in the first place. While this set is mostly defensive, it can still act as a revenge killer that can finish off weakened threats.

Team Options
========

This set is mainly to be used on balanced and defensive teams as a way of countering Mega Charizard Y, Altaria, and Clefable and checking Gengar, Landorus, and Gardevoir, all of which are very threatening for balanced teams. Entry hazard removal is (space) required as usual. Starmie is a very good partner that fits well on defensive teams and handles a lot of checks to Talonflame. Latias and Mega Latias are able to handle Electric-types and can evade being Pursuit trapped by Bisharp and Tyranitar thanks to Reflect Type. A counter to Mega Charizard X, such as Hippowdon, Rhyperior, or Mega Altaria, is needed, as Mega Charizard X is able to effortlessly set up on Talonflame. These 3 three Pokemon are also able to handle Electric-types, which are big threats to Talonflame, rather well too. Mega Diancie stops Talonflame cold, so a Diancie counter such as Jirachi, Ferrothorn, Mega Venusaur, or Celebi is required. The latter 3 three also serve as checks to Water-types, which threaten Talonflame too. Mega Sableye is a very good partner for Talonflame, as Magic Bounce prevents Stealth Rock from being set up. In return, Talonflame checks Fairy-types, which can break past Sableye, as well as Mega Charizard Y and Landorus.

[SET]
name: Revenge Killer
move 1: Brave Bird
move 2: Flare Blitz
move 3: U-turn
move 4: Steel Wing / Tailwind
item: Choice Band
ability: Gale Wings
nature: Jolly / Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Brave Bird is Talonflame's most powerful Flying STAB and important move by far, enabling it to act as a powerful revenge killer. Flare Blitz enables Talonflame to hit Steel-types such as Skarmory and Bisharp and Electric-types such as Thundurus and Zapdos. U-turn is a great move for generating momentum and also hits Tyranitar for a lot of damage. Steel Wing enables Talonflame to OHKO Mega Diancie and 2HKO Tyrantrum after Stealth Rock damage. Tailwind can be good as a last-ditch effort to increase the team's Speed and generate a sweep from one of Talonflame's teammates, but you need to be certain Talonflame will be KOed on the same turn or it will lose a lot of momentum. Sleep Talk helps Talonflame switch into Spore or Sleep Powder users such as Breloom and Amoonguss more freely. Will-O-Wisp can be good for crippling the likes of Hippowdon and Tyranitar and avoiding 50/50s with Bisharp; however, U-turn is a far superior option in most situations you'd ever want to use it. Roost can be used over Steel Wing in case Talonflame's Choice Band gets knocked off, but it will almost never come into play, (AC) especially because Choice Band Talonflame isn't supposed to be switching into attacks.

Set Details
========

Gale Wings enables Talonflame to act as a revenge killer for setup sweepers such as Mega Gyarados, Mega Charizard X, Mega Altaria, and Landorus. A Choice Band is used to hit as hard as Talonflame possibly can, making up for its mediocre Attack stat. Maximized offenses with an Jolly nature enables enable Talonflame to hit as hard as it possibly can while outspeeding Thundurus, Raikou, Choice Scarf Magnezone, Choice Scarf Tyranitar, and Weavile and at least Speed tie with opposing Talonflames Talonflame. However, an Adamant nature hits allows Talonflame to hit even harder at the cost of not being able to outspeed a few Pokemon that resist Brave Bird resists and hit them with Flare Blitz, though it can still outspeed everything up to base 110 Speed Pokemon.

Usage Tips
========

Use this as a pure revenge killer. Don't switch it directly into anything because Talonflame wants to take as least little damage as it possibly can because chip damage severely limits how much damage Talonflame can deal before being KOed. Send it out if one of your Pokemon gets KOed by a sweeper in order to revenge kill. It is absolutely imperative that you remove Stealth Rock before sending Talonflame out, otherwise it will only have 2 two opportunities to revenge kill. It can be used as a lead thanks to the scouting power of U-turn. Against more defensive teams that do not employ setup sweepers, Talonflame's revenge killing abilities are not needed, and you can simply use it to severely weaken physically defensive Pokemon such as Slowbro and Hippwdon.

Team Options
========

This set fits mainly on offensive teams looking for a catch-all revenge killer. However, you need to make sure your team can also revenge kill Pokemon that cannot be revenge killed by Talonflame, such as Excadrill and Mega Diancie, so pairing Talonflame up with Azumarill or Landorus-T is a good idea. Entry hazard prevention is needed, whether it be from a Defogger such as Latios, a spinner such as Excadrill, or a team offensive enough to prevent the opposing team from setting up Stealth Rock, either via employing Azelf as a suicide lead or using Mega Diancie as a partner. A Volt Switch user, such as Mega Manectric, Raikou, or Rotom-W, can form a VoltTurn core with Talonflame and give it opportunities to come in safely. Raikou and Manectric also have the ability to check Electric-types, which are big threats to Talonflame.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

natural gift

name: Natural Gift
move 1: Brave Bird / Acrobatics
move 2: Natural Gift
move 3: Flare Blitz / Roost
move 4: Swords Dance
ability: Gale Wings
item: Liechi Berry / Salac Berry / Apicot Berry
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
nature: Jolly

Natural Gift with a Berry enables Talonflame to lure and defeat some of its its checks and counters. Liechi Berry turns Natural Gift into a Grass-type move, which hits Rotom-W, Tyranitar, (AC)and Rhyperior super effectively. It also raises Talonflame's attack when it is weakened. Salac Berry turns Natural Gift into a Fighting-type move, which, at +2, OHKOes physically defensive Tyranitar after Stealth Rock damage (RC) and deals a lot of damage to Heatran. It can also raise Talonflame's Speed, which enables Talonflame not to be revenge killed by opposing Talonflame, Mega Manectric, and Choice Scarf Magneton. Apicot Berry turns Natural Gift into a Ground-type move, OHKOing Heatran at +2 (though it fails against Air Balloon variants) and hitting Tyranitar hard. Finally, Durin Berry turns Natural Gift into a Water-type move, hitting Rhyperior, Heatran, and Tyranitar.

Sitrus Berry is an option on sets that run Acrobatics in order to counteract Stealth Rock damage, but it relies on Talonflame taking damage before being able to attack and is therefore unreliable, and Brave Bird sets either prefer the power of Sharp Beak or the consistent passive recovery of Leftovers. Toxic is a nice tool for Talonlame, enabling it to cripple switch-ins such as Rotom-W, Slowbro, Hippowdon, Alomomola, Landorus-T, (AC) and Rhyperior. However, Toxic is generally less useful than Will-O-Wisp. Talonflame can also run a physically defensive spread to switch into Mega Gardevoir's Psyshocks and Bisharp more easily, but by doing so, doesn’t have the amount of it loses out on the bulk needed switch into the likes of Landorus and Gengar. Finally, a Life Orb mixed set with Hidden Power Ground or Fighting and Overheat can be used to lure Heatran or Tyranitar and hit Flare Blitz targets such as Skarmory and Ferrothorn without recoi land recoil and physically bulky Pokemon like Landorus-T, but it is generally inferior to Natural Gift sets at luring Talonflame's usual checks.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Rock-types**: Rock-types can very easily wall offensive Talonflame sets, only fearing Will-O-Wisp, Steel Wing, or Natural Gift. Tyranitar is a very good check, particularly the Choice Scarf variant, which can hit bulkier variants of Talonflame before it has the opportunity to burn and even (space) OHKOes through the burn and can Pursuit trap Talonflame, though it is hit hard by U-turn from the Choice Band set. Mega Aerodactyl, Kabutops, Rhyperior, and Tyrantrum are all very good checks, but they also fear Will-O-Wisp. Diancie takes on Talonflame quite easily, although it can be 2HKOed by Choice Banded Brave Bird from the Choice Band set after Stealth Rock damage.

**Heatran**: Heatran is one of the best counters to Talonflame, as it resists every coverage move Talonflame carries bar Natural Gift. However, it is beaten by Taunt variants unless it runs a Rock-type move and can be overpowered by Swords Dance sets if it has taken prior damage.

**Electric-types**: Electric-types which that either are either bulky enough to take a Flare Blitz, such as Rotom-W or and Zapdos, or outspeed it, such as Mega Manectric or and Choice Scarf Magneton, can check Talonflame quite easily, though Magneton cannot switch into Flare Blitz at all. Raikou, Thundurus, and Magnezone are all able to take on bulkier sets very well, though they are outsped by the offensive sets and hit very hard by Flare Blitz.

**Bulky Water-types**: Physically defensive Water-types can take Talonflame's hits quite well and retaliate with a super effective Scald. Slowbro and Mega Slowbro are very good counters to Talonflame. Alomomola can stall it out via Toxic, although it is too weak to harm Taunt variants. Suicune is a very solid answer to Talonflame, but it isn't guaranteed to beat the specially defensive variants that carry Taunt because an unboosted Scald cannot 2HKO. Quagsire is also a good answer to non-Taunt variants, though it can be 2HKOed by the Choice Banded set. Gyarados also serves as a decent check thanks to Intimidate, though it has no reliable recovery and needs to run a significant amount of physical Defense investment in order to not to be 2HKOed by the Choice Band variant.

**Ground-types**: Bulky Ground-types are able to deal with Talonflame quite well, though they are heavily crippled by Will-O-Wisp. Landorus-T is a good check to Talonflame, especially if it runs a defensive set, though the Choice Scarf set is OHKOed by +2 Sharp Beak-boosted Brave Bird after Stealth Rock damage. However, it needs to run a Rock-type move to reliably beat Talonflame. Hippowdon deals with Talonflame very well (RC) but also needs to run a Rock-type move so as to not lose to sets that run Taunt. Excadrill also serves as a good check to Talonflame, as under sand or with a Choice Scarf, it outspeeds Talonflame and therefore it does not fear Flare Blitz and can only be hit by a resisted Brave Bird.

**Extreme Speed users**: Extreme Speed users such as Dragonite, Entei, and Lucario can revenge kill Talonflame, as Extreme Speed's priority is higher than that of Gale Wings.

**Chip damage**: Talonflame can often be forced to go down via Brave Bird recoil, especially when combined with Stealth Rock damage and additional recoil from Rough Skin, Iron Barbs, or Rocky Helmet users such as Garchomp, Ferrothorn, Skarmory, or and Mandibuzz.

GP 2/2

 

[Dratios]

Can we perhaps slash Substitute with the WoW / Taunt slot on the SpDef set? I've used it and it's worked very well.

 

[Albacore]

Dratios could you elaborate on the merits of Sub on the SpD set? To me, being able to switch out of Pursuits from Scarftar if you Sub as it swicthes in doesn't seem worth running it over Taunt which is better in pretty much every other way, espeically since WoW is a lot better in that scenario. Being able to scout swicthes doesn't seem too useful either since Talonflame's SpD set is far too weak to make good use of Subs that are set up on forced switches, and doesn't really force that many switches anyway.

Anyway this is basically done, unless soemone has a better idea of what do do about the itemless thing.

 

[Dratios]

The most helpful aspect of it, for me, was the temporary status immunity but I guess Taunt would be better suited for that. In one case, though, it allowed me to stall one guy out of all his Stone Edges. If I can find the replays I'll post a few for sure. I guess it could be relegated to OO as well.

 

[AM]

Uploading aim