NOC Fallout New Vegas NOC [GAME OVER - Wastelanders Win]

[rssp1]

Fatecrashers, There's a difference between agreeing with someone and buddying up with them... which is why I don't understand the lynch on haunted. As far as I can see, Haunted agreed with your reasoning after doing some reading of his own, and he's being lynched for it. What you said lines up with my opinion. I don't think that's a valid reason to lynch someone, which is why I said what I said (that I hoped that that was not the full reason for lynching Haunted). oh yeah and the end part, while I guess it encourages others to consider possibilities, is still a defense of yourself (which I can elaborate on if you want me to).
ButteredToast, gotcha.

 

[Fatecrashers]

no need to elaborate, i know what you mean, and yeah having someone like spiffy or von clarifying their reasoning would be nice

 

[vonFiedler]

Spiffy summed it up pretty well. He's bandwagoned onto not one, but two of your lynch votes. One of which, Jalmont, you were tunneling pretty hard on, and the other, Cancerous, who as I've said might look scummier for not contributing much if it wasn't day 1 and there wasn't a list of people like that. Both of these don't seem super strong for your level of insistence, and for another player to just follow you around like a lost puppy is a bit weird.

 

[JALMONT]

are you kidding me this is why i don't like making wall of text posts, remind me to type 'village' and 'mafia' in bold next time i make one of these

don't make those posts then no one is forcing you, and i think its suspicious to cater to what other people want

also i explicitly state i would vote for haunted diamond, cancerous, and celever, the fact that poor you had to ask me again speaks more to your reading comprehension skills more than anything

i wasn't sure your stance on certain players in the list so i wanted to be sure - for example i wasn't sure if your opinion on me and sunny meant that you would/would not be willing to vote him or i today.

 

[Celever]

Spiffy summed it up pretty well. He's bandwagoned onto not one, but two of your lynch votes. One of which, Jalmont, you were tunneling pretty hard on, and the other, Cancerous, who as I've said might look scummier for not contributing much if it wasn't day 1 and there wasn't a list of people like that. Both of these don't seem super strong for your level of insistence, and for another player to just follow you around like a lost puppy is a bit weird.

Haunted Shadow's actions aren't indicative of Fatecrashers' alignment though. Mafia pretty much spend their whole game trying to build up buddy buddy relationships with villagers so that when they die the villager gets some attacks thrown their way. I personally don't see anything particularly suspicious that Fate has done, but maybe I'm missing something.

rssp1 I believe the case for Haunted is this:
He has been a very low contributor. He tunneled Jalmont for most of Day 1 because he seemed like a likely lynch target, but not so much so as to not get onto people's radars, and then when the lynch was dead he jumped immediately onto Cancerous with little~no explanation given. This seems like a mafia player trying to get people, namely Jalmont and Cancerous, not aligned with him (read: could still be courier) or an indie try to get people not aligned with him (read: could still be mafia). I feel like that sentence order is horrible but hey. I believe that's most of the argument. Low contribution but enough to seem active, latching onto another player and throwing in support for too many lynches (especially those that seem to be garnering support) are some of the bigger indications of mafia, not only in Day 1 but throughout.

 

[JALMONT]

i fundamentally disagree with your strategy on how to play mafia but that's ok and i wasn't going to bother but i wanted to clarify a couple things

It would be better to me if you contributed in a way that made sense instead of half assing it. It would be better if you took a team mentality and try not to overcompensate for not reading. All it seems you are doing is trying to pass off as a good villager when in fact you are not a good villager. Problem is I can't tell if you are being mafia or if you're just trying to seem smarter/more caring than what you really are. But you know better than to do the things you are doing. And it frustrates me. And this whole thing asking fate questions he literally just answered bugs me too.

If I am not a "good villager" then it doesn't ever matter what my alignment is because I will appear to you the same way than if I am village or mafia.

I don't know if you just bit off more than you can chew with a NOC game, but going in, you should know it's going to be a lot of talk and discussion and a very mental, unorganized game. There are going to be long discussions and long posts that you're going to have to read. And you're going to have to watch your actions.

Longer posts aren't better than shorter ones. In fact, I think concise, short posts are better but you are free to disagree.

With you, you're trying to do something but you're doing it wrong. You don't really want to read or contribute or think, but you want to appear to be involved. I don't know if this is because you aren't interested because you are mafia and all this doesnt actually matter and you're just in it for appearances. Or if you are just a bad villager who has some kind of ego or wants things spoon fed to him without thinking. Or what it is. But whatever it is, it's fake as hell.

I have a lot of issues with this part mainly because you are telling me how I play is wrong. Which doesn't make sense since who are you (or anyone for that matter) to tell me that my way of play is "wrong" (and it hasn't even been that abnormal this game lol). NOC isn't formulaic. There is no magic formula or a single strategy that wins the game for the village. There is no way of play that is the best path for a win. You talk about "contributing" and yet if you look at my posts re: this game, most all of them are about who I think is mafia, or my reactions to certain people's posts. What sort of contributions are you looking for that is lacking in what I have done?

Honestly. I had done some thinking in between signing up and starting the game on what to look for. One of the first thoughts on my list is that the bad Mafia members would be disinterested in long conversations about people other than themselves or other mafia members purely because you dont care who is village or mafia because you already know. And getting actively involved in long discussions on people would be boring because it has no pertinence to your game.

I don't care about random long conversations that do not advance the primary village goal of finding mafia. Especially on day 1.

I feel like you are doing BOTH of these things. I think your actions peg you into being a lazy mafia member. You don't care enough to read posts of other people when it doesn't concern you. You don't want to read Fates posts because what do you care the reasons if someone is village or mafia. You just want to get the information you need spoon fed because the day doesn't matter. Also, you cared so much because about no lynch because it was actually relevant to the mafia. You were too lazy to read the rest of the conversation because what does the day matter to you. Just throw out no lynch. And you weren't reading anything but the comments on lynching because it's the only thing that mattered to you. And you posted your thoughts late and of topic because you were too lazy to pretend to read everything else. And when you were called out for it being weird, you make up this story and go "oh i dunno I was just trying or kidding." You continue on this lazy streak until von's posts because it was personal to you. And now you're interested now and I think it's because we're hitting on one of your team mates.

Nobody wants to read long walls of nothing. They are confusing, they take up a lot of space (like this one) and generally do not add a proportionally amount of info from the amount of time/space they take up. It's really easy to summarize thoughts on people. Taking a stance on someone is a lot harder. You call me lazy, and yet I've proposed more for today's lynch then you have. If I'm "lazy," at least I'm a productive lazy person, someone who has actual thoughts on who is mafia and is willing to vote those people. What have you proposed other than continually pointing out all the ways I am mafia only to refute them yourself by saying I am a "bad" mafia player. How is that helpful to anybody? It isn't. And that's what I think mafia does. Posting information that isn't useful and are generally wishy-washy as to who they would lynch.

No lynch is a terrible option. If it wasn't so late I would find posts of me explaining why it's bad. Maybe later.

The ONLY reason I am not convinced you are not mafia is because people have said how bad of a player you have been in the past, and it leads support to that you're just a lazy village. But all of your actions say you are mafia to me. And there is nothing you have done to make up for that.

That's probably the shittiest reason to ever believe someone isn't mafia and another area I disagree with. If you truly thought I was mafia then you would try and get me lynched. Not doing so goes against the whole win con of trying to lynch mafia. Literally every single action in this game can be attributed to WIFOM.

Yeah, this is a rant. But your question just set me off in frustration. And your asking these dumb questions that you can find if you just read. And you're derailing our conversations based on your laziness either as a mafia technique or because you are just not committed. And that 50/50 shot is way better than any shot I could make at anyone else right now. And if I'm on the wrong side of the coin flip, I think I could live with myself better than if I could being wrong on Fate or Spiffy or Cancerous or anyone else.

The only dumb questions are ones with no pertinence to the game. Why do people ask for lynch votes? To get understanding of the situation at hand. To gain a better understanding of the complete picture. If I ask someone what there concrete thoughts are on lynching x, it's making sure and confirming what they think. (Oh and it gives me a chance to check if they backtracked on something they said too).

i think i got everything

 

[JALMONT]

re: lynch

Cancerous hasn't really given me any reason to move my vote off him. could he be apathetic villager not knowing what to do? maybe/probably, but I feel the other person I would want to vote fate has spoken significantly enough for me to stick with cancerous. I don't think haunted diamond is a good lynch but I have a pretty bad track record of recognizing mafia out of all the people who push lynches on me

 

[Haunted Diamond]

Lol do i have to mention again my time difference to you guys? i'm at uni right now so my response will be short.
Why did i defend myself when ullar said i shouldn't bw? Well at first i voted jalmont because he had made a mistake and by pressuring him i wanted to get info out of him (which worked, and he claimed it was his plan all along to be pressured)
then jalmont had a really weird change of behaviour, he went from defending himself to playing the "it was all a joke" thing.
after this, i went to bed and then went to uni in the morning, when i logged on and read what had happened i had 5 pages of long posts in front of me and i couldn't really read all of them. i just searched my name in each pages and saw that no one had replied to the post i had made in page 8. that's why i made the post complaining why people ignored me.
then jalmont finally addressed my main issues in page 12 or 13 i think, his answer was kinda reasonable but not quite convincing.
why did i lynch cancerous? i went back to the last pages and searched cancerous's name this time in each page. i read his defenses and how he had responded so passively to his accusations. what caught my eye was the: "what do you think on moi?" question he had asked from the sub. this was contentless and seeemed like the filler question someone would just ask to fake contribution. also all his posts in those pages gave me a feeling of scumness.

 

[Haunted Diamond]

why did i trust fate? reading his posts in the beginning pages and seeing him question suspsicous people with the same logic i had gave me the feeling that he can't be scum. though, seeing him so easily vote me when he was all friendly before and trusted me makes me suspect him now.
if the concept of time differences is so hard to grasp for you guys and you're just gonna bandwagon on me when i'm asleep, then i'd rather get out of this game. i'm going to class now.

 

[JALMONT]

It wasn't a joke and I'm pretty sure I addressed your issues earlier than that.

Your reasoning of voting cancerous seems pretty canned and sounds like forced repetition of what has already been said tbh.

anyways i'm off to bed for now

 

[Fatecrashers]

Spiffy summed it up pretty well. He's bandwagoned onto not one, but two of your lynch votes. One of which, Jalmont, you were tunneling pretty hard on, and the other, Cancerous, who as I've said might look scummier for not contributing much if it wasn't day 1 and there wasn't a list of people like that. Both of these don't seem super strong for your level of insistence, and for another player to just follow you around like a lost puppy is a bit weird.

haunted diamond voted for jalmont pretty early on and it wasn't until much later that i moved my vote onto jalmont (after moi was subbed out in fact), so the two bandwagon thing is fundamentally wrong, because as you may notice i didn't become suspicious of jalmont until he started backpedalling whereas haunted jumped on him quite early. i make no apologies for tunneling on jalmont, his behaviour from my perspective was weird as fuck and I wanted to put pressure on him just like how he insisted. i've made clear how i thought cancerous's defence of himself was idiotic and his later reads on people didn't make me gain confidence in him, as in he was trying to gain the semblance of contributing. i don't think i was as super insistent on him as i was with jalmont, and not nearly as much as say spiffy or jalmont was on him, but that's your call i guess.

and haunted diamond i don't know where you got that i was friendly and trusting of you, i didn't trust you when you ignored that i was sort of on your side by saying only butteredtoast responded to you, but i guess your propensity to ignore large swaths of the thread explains that, i became especially annoyed when you misread the interactions between me and jalmont, so no i never became that trusting of you. but like i said my vote for you was a kneejerk reaction and when i know that i'm village then the argument for haunted being a mafia doesn't hold up too well.

unvote

 

[Haunted Diamond]

It wasn't a joke and I'm pretty sure I addressed your issues earlier than that.

Your reasoning of voting cancerous seems pretty canned and sounds like forced repetition of what has already been said tbh.

anyways i'm off to bed for now

No you didn't. you only addressed my issues only on page 12.
how is it canny? a scummy behaviour, plus pointless questions that can come only out of the mind of people who have no concern for the village. the sub's opinion on moi's behaviour wouldn't have made no difference, whether moi was mafia or not he wasn't gonna say that: ok i think moi was scummy! let's vote me!
this sudden pressure and lack of faith from you, someone who praised me for "putting good pressure on you" and "giving you what you wanted" is quite suspicious. at least i have had a decisive mindset from the beginning of the game and am only trying to vote people i have reason to suspect. but you? you keep contradicting yourself so much that it's hard to justify your actions.

 

[Haunted Diamond]

Oh btw i forgot to address something:
why did i jump at jalmont so early? I thought my later posts explained it (where i repeatedly mentioned that i want to hear his defense), it's my playing style to put pressure on the suspects, from my first (joke) vote in page 1; vote serious bannanas scum!!!!!!!!!!!!! and my vote on jalmont in page 2: vote jalmont obv mafia.

 

[Haunted Diamond]

Also if you guys go into the first pages and read how fatecrashers was questioning jalmont (in a friendly, "bro" way) i think you would understand why i thought they were friends. it was weird i know but meh it was just a feeling.

 

[Cancerous]

So much texts. So little time.
First order of bussiness, Unvote since it was a joke anyway.
So I see that there is a big debate on me, jalmont, and haunted diamond.

About jalmont, there is nothing new about the circumstance. I'm still with von on this one. I saw jalmont did some weird stuffs in the past before, I saw it came back and bit his bottom before.
About me, yeah I am not voting myself.
About haunted diamond, apparently, he bandwagoned. But I don't feel like he is scum. He has went largely unnoticed before and then intentionally tried to brought people's attention to himself. Would argue that this is not something mafia would do.

So I don't really feel confident about any of these lynches. Would like to explore additional options, like sunny004, as Celever has pointed out.
Amianki please put my request on hold.

Anyway, defend time.
Some of you still dwell on my lack of meaningful contribution and my post inquiring moi's playstyle and stuffs.
I thought it may procure a slip, or at least a glimpse of the new guy's though process, styles, ect ect. And then follow up with the second question. We got something out of it so I guess it kinda served its purpose.
I have only myself to blame for the quality of my posts, finding scum reads is hard.

Will try to process more of these walls.
My workloads on Wednesday and Thursday are usually very big. So I won't be able to do a whole lot on these days.

 

[More Cowbell]

Long overdue vote count:

Cancerous (3): moi, Jalmont, Spiffy, rssp1, sunny004, Fatecrashers, Haunted Diamond, rssp1
Haunted Diamond (2): PokeguyNXB, Spiffy, Fatecrashers, PokeguyNXB, vonFiedler, sunny004
Spiffy (2): Celever, Celever, PokeguyNXB, LightWolf
ButteredToast (2): Amianki, Serious Bananas
Jalmont (1): Serious Bananas, Haunted Diamond, Fatecrashers, ButteredToast
Celever (0): Cancerous, Spiffy, Fatecrashers, Spiffy, Spiffy, vonFiedler, Serious Bananas
No Lynch (0): Jalmont, sunny004
LightWolf (0): Spiffy, sunny004
sunny004 (0): Celever
vonFiedler (0): LightWolf
Serious Bananas (0): Haunted Diamond
PokeguyNXB (0): Spiffy
Norden (0): Celever
moi (0): Ullar, Serious Bananas, Fatecrashers, vonFiedler
Fatecrashers, rssp1, Amianki (0):

Not voting (5): Ullar, ButteredToast, Cancerous, sunny004, Spiffy

Please correct me if I made any mistakes.

 

[LightWolf]

Can we stop discussing jalmont's playstyle? It seems fairly clear that we aren't gonna lynch him based on it and it merely derails the thread by forcing him to respond to it over and over, heck I'm starting to suspect people are actually pouring oil on the fire on purpose to keep such things going. Which reminds me... jalmont came out with his ruse right after moi went offline stopping the till then dominating discussion between von and moi, essentially replacing it with a new one that lasted till now, but it's likely a coincidence and was more likely opportunistic by the mafia to make it the next biggest thing...

So let's see, the first few reactions were, Fate asking for clarification neutrally, Spiffy being completely okay with it, HD going along with what Fate said, ButteredToast asking for pretty much every detail imaginable, then after his first round of explaining himself Fate is okay with it HD and BT are very much not, then von is okay with it(which on an unrelated note leads a big discussion but that seems to be for mostly OC reasons making jalmont take it personally).

These points make me suspect at least one of HD or BT for pushing towards the situation happening, also being kinda easy meat. On the other hand I don't think it cleans any people okay with jalmont(minus von for I am still quite sure he hasn't checked his role PM), since it'd be beneficial to support jalmont there if he is an actual villager, but were lynched anyways(which at the time was a conclusion that could easily have happened). I will look over how the jalmont play discussion kept being revived for nearly ten pages later and see what that leads to.

I would at this point vote ButteredToast and look into him more specifically, and likely will but I still wish to see spiffy's response to my latest responses to him, and especially an actual read of him on me, so my vote stays for now.

 

[Spiffy]

sunny004 this is NOC. How you haven't learned that you can't just bandwagon votes in this game is beyond me. Give reasoning for all of your votes, even if it's just "This person has convinced me that this guy is mafia".

Celever sunny's behavior just screams noobtown to me. Also the only person I would call village right now is rssp1 and maybe moi/Amianki. There are scummy aspeccts about everyone else.

Either way what I'm trying to say it posting your opinion on something obvious is non-content for me at least. As for what more I would have wanted you to do, is my exact problem, and makes it sound like you posted for the sake of posting, though I'm most likely influenced by my style of not posting when I have nothing to say. Anyways I'm not say you should have had more content at the time but that you were seemingly spicing up everything with non.content to seem more busy.

Can you tell me what post/s you're talking about specifically? It would be easier to respond to this if I knew which posts in particular you had a problem with. I think you said page 4 earlier but my posts on that page were about moi and I don't see any problem with those.

I'd just like to hear you say whether or not you agree that you are acting like a NOC village leader. As for more posts, as previously mentioned you p much extended nearly every one of your posts with asking people questions to seem busy(which I also don't like at this point because plenty of times(or just once not quite sure) you asked people opinions on people). I mean sure asking questions is nice and all, and it helps pressure people into contributing, but in a way where you dictate what they talk about, I prefer just having the host prod them or point out their non-content if it feels suspicious.

I would need a definition of "NOC village leader" because I have never heard that term before. If it's something along the lines of what I think it is (the player who kind of shapes/leads the discussions) then yes, I see why people would think I am the leader. I am one of the more active players. The questions I ask are usually things that I myself am thinking about and want to look into. If there is something I notice I am going to bring it up and get others' opinions on it. I don't know why that's a problem.

Every Day 1 I have played in NOC I make it a side goal of mine to keep people active and participating. Several of the newer players (PokeguyNXB, sunny004 etc.) seemed at a loss for what to talk about, which is understandable. I try to help them get into the game by asking questions.

To respond to Celever and you:

Celever does have a point you flipflopped on HD there Spiffy, so I'd love for you to explain more wwhy you originally thought HD's thoughts were satisfying at the time.

I'll admit I was tunneling Celever a little bit at the time. At that point nothing about Haunted Diamond had stuck out to me. I thought Celever was trying to get the heat off of himself by saying "they're doing it too!" which is obviously no excuse for his behavior. I also think Celever is more experienced than Haunted Diamond and sunny004 which is why I singled him out more.

Also lol at Celever not reading the sentence right after the one he quoted:

I am satisfied with Haunted Diamond's contributions thus far. I will be rereading the thread and creating a list of reads before the day ends.

I realized that I hadn't paid HD enough attention which is why I focused on him a lot on my second read through.

Also Spiffy, I'm disappointed you failed to post a read on me with your only excuse being I made a single post till then, when said single post was essentially me going back in time and doing multiple posts in a single one commenting and replying to issues brought up.

Other than the fact that I always find it really difficult to read you, you haven't taken a real stance on anyone other than me, and I find the reasoning for your vote weak and not really backed up with evidence. If I had to I'd probably place you between PokeguyNXB and ButteredToast.

Fatecrashers, There's a difference between agreeing with someone and buddying up with them... which is why I don't understand the lynch on haunted. As far as I can see, Haunted agreed with your reasoning after doing some reading of his own, and he's being lynched for it.

First of all you really don't consider this a buddy?

I don't know why the active players ignored my post (i can understand fate being jalmont's friend and spiffy being scummy)

Either way, people are misconstruing my reasoning for voting for Haunted Diamond. While I do think he and Fate are both scum, I pointed out all of the scummy things Haunted Diamond did on his own. Celever sums it up well. His unexplained and sudden jump on Cancerous after going after Jalmont stands alone as scummy despite Fatecrashers' involvement. He also does NOTHING for 300 pages other than continue to ask people why they aren't considering Jalmont. The Fatecrashers connection is just something I added at the end because it was something I noticed in the behavior or both players.

Haunted Diamond explaining your Cancerous vote after the fact because someone called you out on it does not change my opinion on you. You still have no valid defense for why you focused solely on Jalmont and contributed nothing else. My mind probably won't be changed today, especially since we have only about 24 hours left.

So yeah Vote Haunted Diamond

 

[Haunted Diamond]

sunny004

Haunted Diamond explaining your Cancerous vote after the fact because someone called you out on it does not change my opinion on you. You still have no valid defense for why you focused solely on Jalmont and contributed nothing else. My mind probably won't be changed today, especially since we have only about 24 hours left.

So yeah Vote Haunted Diamond

Yeah, tbh there's something to it. (i've been reading all his posts in the last pages)
unvote Jalmont (i have my eye on you) Vote Cancerous.

"I've been reading all his posts in the last pages"
isn't that enough of a reason for you?

 

[Spiffy]

No.

What about his posts made you want to vote for him? How did you SUDDENLY understand the argument against him? What a coincidence that the moment you get it he turned into the vote with the most support. If you have nothing new to add, which arguments convinced you? You also drop the entire Jalmont shtick when the opportunity presents itself to push to end the day.

 

[Haunted Diamond]

Can someone tell me in a nutshell why they are lynching cancerous?

this is the proof i hadn't read any of the arguments. you are missing something fundamental: i had a time difference with you guys, then when i woke up i had to go to university and i had a limited time there so all i did was to search my name and see what people had said in response to my posts last night.
then i went back to the last pages and searched cancerous's name with f3 on each page, i read the arguments against him and his weak defendings. what caught my eye was the: "what do you think on moi" question he asked from the sub. this wasn't something someone worried about town would ask because nothing useful could be gotten out of it. what was the point of it? that the sub would say: "i think moi acted scummy, i'd agree if you guys lynch me, his sub"? (this was what i was thinking when i changed my vote)
i haven't let go of jalmont, i still have an eye on him. but seeing everyone except fate and buttered toast ignoring my points and finding his behaviour quite normal, i thought dwelling on him would be pointless.
i'm very busy during weekdays. i have my exams coming, i teach in an english institute and when i'm home i'm usually multitasking when i'm online. you can't expect detailed and well written posts from me

 

[Ullar]

More Cowbell pls sub me out, got stuff on my plate

that and I'm a real flake zzz

 

[More Cowbell]

More Cowbell pls sub me out, got stuff on my plate

that and I'm a real flake zzz

No subs are available at the moment, by Friday one of the subs should be able to play.

 

[Spiffy]

What I am saying is, if you were thoughtfully thinking through the lynch, all of those things should have been included with your lynch vote. While this isn't scummy on its own, combined with the rest of your behavior throughout the day that I have mentioned several times already, makes you the best vote for today.

 

[Haunted Diamond]

How is the rest of my behaviour scummy?
"i have read his posts" was my reason!?