Arceus-Fighting (GP: 2/2)

[Minority]

QC Checks: Nayrz / Sweep / WreckDra
GP Checks: Rhythms / Yonko7

American-ceus

[OVERVIEW]

A mono-Fighting typing gives Fighting Arceus the ability to check relevant threats such as Extreme Killer Arceus, Darkrai, Rock Arceus, Tyranitar, and Dialga. Fighting Arceus also has the raw stats and an excellent movepool that is available to all Arceus formes. Thanks to being rarely utilized, Fighting Arceus can function as a lure and easily surprise opponents. Fighting isn't a very good type offensively, due to relevant Ghost-types such as Ghost Arceus, Giratina-O, and Mega Sableye being immune to Fighting Arceus's Judgment. Defensively, Fighting Arceus's typing isn't stellar either, as it is weak to Ho-Oh's, Xerneas's, and Mega Salamence's STAB attacks while offering no useful resistances. Fighting Arceus also tends to preform poorly against defensive teams, and it is vulnerable to all status and entry hazards. Fighting Arceus is almost always a waste of an Arceus forme; reconsider using this Pokemon as it has little to no niche.

[SET]
name: Support
move 1: Judgment
move 2: Recover
move 3: Thunder Wave
move 4: Ice Beam / Stone Edge
item: Fist Plate
ability: Multitype
nature: Timid
evs: 160 HP / 252 SpA / 96 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Judgment is Fighting Arceus's specialty, allowing it to rip apart Extreme Killer Arceus, Darkrai, Dialga, Dark Arceus, Tyranitar, Mega Kangaskhan, and Rock Arceus, while also dealing significant damage to Primal Groudon, Klefki, and Ferrothorn. Recover prevents Fighting Arceus from being worn down after repeated switch-ins, allowing it to function beyond a one time check. Thunder Wave cripples common switch-ins to Fighting Arceus such as Ghost Arceus, Latias, Latios, Mega Gengar, and Mewtwo, and prevents it from being setup bait for Geomancy Xerneas. Ice Beam is used to blow away potential Mega Salamence switch-ins or Mega Salamence that set up; it also destroys Rayquaza and hits Pokemon such as Giratina-O, Latias, and Latios. Stone Edge destroys Ho-Oh and still provides a means of hitting airborne or Levitating targets that are immune to or resist Fighting Arceus's STAB attack. Toxic can be used instead of Thunder Wave in order to better punish Ghost Arceus while still retaining methods of punishing Latios and Latias switch-ins; however, it worsens the matchup against Mega Gengar and Xerneas to some degree.

Set Details
========

252 Special Attack EVs maximize the probability that Fighting Arceus will OHKO Extreme Killer Arceus, and they also ensure that Ice Beam OHKOes Mega Salamence. In general, the Special Attack EVs also help offset how poorly Fighting Arceus preforms against defensive teams. 96 Speed EVs with a Timid nature ensure that Fighting Arceus is faster than Mega Kangaskhan, which is also fast enough to move before Rayquaza variants, and Latios and Latias that aren't maximum Speed. This investment is also enough to outspeed Mega Salamence before Mega Evolution so that Fighting Arceus can knock it out with Ice Beam. The remaining 160 EVs are allocated to HP so that Fighting Arceus better takes +2 Extreme Speed from Extreme Killer Arceus in addition to attacks from Darkrai and Dialga. A Fist Plate is required to use Fighting Arceus, and it boosts the power of Judgment. A spread of 44 Def / 252 SpA / 212 Spe with a Modest nature allows Fighting Arceus to OHKO bulky Extreme Killer Arceus while still retaining enough Speed to outrun Mega Kangaskhan at the cost of the ability to switch into special attacks as well. Another spread of 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe with a Timid nature is an option to outspeed Mega Lucario, Mega Diancie, and Speed tie with opposing Arceus formes at the cost of not being able to check Extreme Killer Arceus and other special attackers with as much leniency.

Usage Tips
========

Fighting Arceus's go-to move to prevent big threats from getting free switch-ins is Thunder Wave. Paralysis cripples any threat that is faster than Fighting Arceus, barring Ground Arceus and the rare Electric Arceus. Ground-types don't really switch into Fighting Arceus's Judgment well, as it deals significant damage even to specially defensive Primal Groudon. Although Fighting Arceus is a solid check to Tyrantiar, beware of Thunder Wave if you're switching it in, as paralysis eliminates the Speed advantage Fighting Arceus has over many threats. If Fighting Arceus is to serve as a counter to Extreme Killer Arceus, it must be at or near full health. This means that it is important to keep Fighting Arceus at high HP as long as an opposing Extreme Killer Arceus is alive. Fighting Arceus has enough bulk to tank any of Darkrai's moves at +2, although bad luck with sleep turns can give Darkrai enough time to KO Fighting Arceus before it can wake up, so using another Pokemon as sleep fodder to Dark Void, then switching in Fighting Arceus is usually a safer method of checking Darkrai. Although it is far from indestructible, Fighting Arceus is capable of liberally switching into powerful threats such as Dialga, Kyurem-W, and even predicted Earthquakes or Extreme Speeds from Rayquaza, although Dragon Ascent makes doing so risky. Do not risk keeping Fighting Arceus in against a previously Mega Evolved Salamence if your team has a safe switch-in for it, as several spreads are faster than Fighting Arceus.

Team Options
========

Primal Groudon covers Fighting Arceus's weakness to Fairy-types, Ho-Oh, and Primal Kyogre. Xerneas benefits from Fighting Arceus's ability to check Steel-types, Mega Kangaskhan, and Extreme Killer Arceus, and, in return, Xerneas can check Latios and Latias. Primal Kyogre appreciates Fighting Arceus's ability to check Pokemon such as Dialga and Ferrothorn, while Primal Kyogre can tackle Ho-Oh and Ghost-types. Mega Salamence greatly benefits from Fighting Arceus's ability to check Rock Arceus. Fighting Arceus can check Dark Arceus for Latios and Latias, and, in return, they can provide Defog support for Fighting Arceus. Ho-Oh provides a switch-in for Fairy-type moves aimed at Fighting Arceus, and Fighting Arceus can check Rock Arceus for Ho-Oh in return. Yveltal also appreciates Fighting Arceus's ability to check Rock Arceus, although it does stack a weakness to Fairy-types. Ferrothorn can be used in order to provide Fighting Arceus with a Fairy-type switch-in and a Primal Kyogre switch-in, and it offers an immunity to Toxic aimed at Fighting Arceus. Aegislash can provide a switch-in for Fairy-types and also provide a Toxic immunity. Tyranitar can be used to check Pokemon that threaten Fighting Arceus, such as Ho-Oh, Yveltal, Latios, and Latias, and, in return, Fighting Arceus checks Dialga. Rayquaza benefits from Fighting Arceus's ability to check Rock Arceus and Tyranitar; two common switch-ins to Dragon Ascent. Zekrom can threaten Ho-Oh, Lugia, and Primal Kyogre, all of which are common and powerful checks to Fighting Arceus. Mega Scizor, Mega Metagross, and Mega Lucario can all be used as offensive partners that check Fairy-types that threaten Fighting Arceus.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

A Calm Mind set can be utilized in an effort to make Fighting Arceus more useful against defensive teams; however, the nature of Fighting-type Judgment makes other Calm Mind Arceus formes a better choice in this role. Sludge Bomb can be used to pound away at Fairy-type switches and spread poison; however, hitting Mega Salamence or Ho-Oh with Fighting Arceus's coverage move is usually more relevant and potent. Will-O-Wisp can be used to cripple physical attackers, although some common switch-ins to Fighting Arceus, such as Ho-Oh and Fairy Arceus, are immune or don't mind a burn much. A Defog support set is an option; however, this limits Fighting Arceus to either status or a coverage move further increasing the number of threats that can easily switch into it. Roar can be used to phaze away Pokemon that attempt to setup on Fighting Arceus, while Magic Coat can reflect status and entry hazards, although it is hard to find room for either of these moves.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Fairy-types**: Xerneas, Fairy Arceus, Mega Diancie, and Clefable all resist Fighting Arceus's Judgment and can retaliate with strong super effective Fairy-type attacks.

**Ghost-types**: Ghost Arceus, Giratina-O, Mega Gengar, Mega Sableye, and Aegislash are all immune to Fighting Arceus's Judgment and can threaten it with status. Mega Gengar in particular outspeeds Fighting Arceus and can trap it with Shadow Tag.

**Flying-Types**: Ho-Oh, Mega Salamence, Lugia, Yveltal, Shaymin-S, and Flying Arceus have a type advantage against Fighting Arceus, allowing them to threaten it with powerful Flying-type moves. However, Ho-Oh fears Stone Edge, Mega Salamence, Shaymin-S, and Yveltal fear Ice Beam, and Lugia fears Toxic.

**Primal Kyogre**: Primal Kyogre has the sheer special bulk to tank Fighting Arceus's Judgment and can retaliate with powerful rain-boosted Water-type attacks.

**Psychic-Types**: Psychic-types such as Latios, Latias, Mewtwo, and Psychic Arceus resist Fighting Arceus's Judgment and can deal significant damage in return with their Psychic-type attacks.

**Blissey**: Although Blissey takes 2x super effective damage from Fighting Arceus's Judgment, its special bulk is extensive enough to where it can still stall out Fighting Arceus with Toxic.

**Paralysis**: Fighting Arceus relies greatly on its Speed advantage to check threats, and, if Fighting Arceus is paralyzed, it is less effective at making use of the effects of Thunder Wave itself.

**Toxic**: Toxic poison causes Fighting Arceus to have to recover more often, prevents it from staying in for long periods of time, and deals enough residual damage to make it more difficult to check intended threats.

 

[Minority]

Okay this is ready for feedback.

 

[astroboy]

imo add latis and megamence to team options as they appreciate fightceus trashing arceus-dark and arceus-rock, respectively

 

[Thugly Duckling]

I like Arceus Fighting a lot in this meta, and I've used it quiet a bit (bopping Mence with ice beam is hilarious every time jajajaja xD); so, I just have to leave some thoughts ^.^ hope you don't mind.

Overview

Looks great, nothing I can tell needs mentioning.

Set

Timid 192+ is a lot better to outspeed the uncommon lucario; typically, arceus fighting's best teammates (one being tyranitar) are all smashed by it, so, giving arceus fighting the speed necessary to accomplish this is key because solid lucario checks are very difficult to fit with arceus fighting. It also allows it to pick off a weakened Mega Diancie, a situational benefit of the investment. I argue that max HP is necessary as well because being able to check every Ekiller variant (jolly and adamant) is so dire to this mon's viability, even to the extent, that, if you aren't using full HP investment, you should probably be running another Ekiller check (such as Skarmory or another Arceus form). Such a high opportunity cost mon needs to at least be dependable in all expectedly favorable situations.

Moves

Toxic is very good on this mon and needs a slash in the main set (limits Ho-Oh's staying power in conjunction with received Brave Bird recoil, and lures CM arceus ghost, allowing Tyranitar to run the superior Shuca+twave set), but, should only be used alongside Ice Beam; and so, stone edge should be used alongside thunder wave. I really dislike stone edge Arceus fighting because it will need a Rock-typed Ho-Oh switch in anyways (again, tyranitar is great for this!), but it is certainly viable if there is something on your team that needs a solid Ho-Oh lure.

Usage tips

A great strat early game, is, switching into attacks from what it checks; such as, Dialga's Draco meteor; recovering off damage; and, scouting your switchins for the next time you come in. This mon plays very reactively, but what is complete crap about it is that it needs to predict just about every time it gets into battle during the mid game.

Team options

Latias and Latios appreciate steel types gone / weakened and the dark type switch in; CM Ogre appreciates a ferrothorn switch in and patches the stall matchup which Fightceus struggles with. Tyranitar is an excellent Ho-Oh check, and, it forms a really nice pursuit-dependent core with Ogre. Running something that appreciates the luring capabilities is encouraged; RP Groudon appreciates the support of the ice beam variant, Xerneas and Skymin appreciate the support of the Stone edge variant. TYRANITAR!

Other Options

Can't think of anything else; but, CM is complete shit because running a CM Arceus that is weak to one of Ho-Oh's STABs is a terrible idea.

Checks Counters

Offensive Yveltal can't switch into Judgement and the defensive variant is foiled by toxic. But, Fightceus cannot switch into flying types in fear of STAB attacks, so, I guess Yveltal counts as a check. Mention Arceus Psychic too; it could actually be bundled with Arceus Flying and Arceus Poison.

 

[Minority]

You contradict yourself by saying to raise the Speed investment on the set but at the same time Arc-Fighting should have a set that maximizes its ability to check EKiller. Without the SpA investment Judgment does not KO EKiller, thus making it a worse EKiller check. No amount of reasonable bulk allows Arc-Fighting to avoid the 2HKO from EKiller and yet you advocate 252 invest when it meets no specific benchmark against cede threat. I already considered running enough to beat Mega Luke, but at that point you might as well run Max to tie opposing Arc. This means no bulk investment, which is acceptable as you still beat even Adamant LO with SR up, but with no room for taking residual; an alternate EV spread worth putting in set details.

Toxic is probably worth a mention in moves, but you are total bait for Xern making the set impossible to run on offense. It also makes you significantly worse against Mega Gar.

Didn't really say anything here that I already didn't.

Didn't say anything here that I already didn't aside from ttar, which is a poor Ho-Oh answer and stacks weaknesses to some extent so I think you overstate how effective it is as a partner.

Disagree with the logic behind CM set not being OO worthy, pretty much all CM Arc that aren't Rock lose to Ho-Oh anyways.

Added Arc-Psychic.

 

[Thugly Duckling]

Factoring in rocks damage and two rounds of life orb recoil, Ekiller is effectively checked regardless of SpA investment. Using the speed investment I mentioned to outspeed mega luke (192+), and special attack investment left after max HP is invested (64 EVs), this is how much standard Ekiller takes from Judgement.

- 64 SpA Fist Plate Arceus-Fighting Judgment vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Arceus: 272-324 (71.3 - 85%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

An OHKO is unnecessary because Ekiller is not OHKOing Fightceus anyway and has to attack twice, 18% damage taken from doing that alone (including rocks damage, that's 30% damage if Ekiller decides to attack). The only time Fightceus will want to have max SpA is when it is facing down a silk scarf Ekiller, admittedly, a rare and less superior variant of Ekiller (it really needs stone edge and LO to plow down Mence). Sparing spA investment into HP and speed is of little cost, and, expanding the mon's utility of being able to check more for the opportunity cost it suffers, is crucial.

 

[Minority]

It's splitting hairs at this point, but it's contradictory to justify running enough Speed for Mega Luke and then turn around and say the SpA doesn't matter on the grounds that Silk Scarf EKiller is rare; you're effectively saying that Mega Luke is more relevant than Silk Scarf EKiller. Like I already said, if you are going to run enough Speed for something as irrelevant as Luke, might as well go max.

The SpA isn't just for EKiller either. Go look at calcs against Dialga, Kyurem-W, Yveltal, and Mega Mence just to name a few. Meanwhile you have yet to show a single relevant calc showing what benchmarks 252 HP meets over 160 HP that are worth giving up SpA for.

 

[Nayrz]

That C&C is a bit full - summarize the flying types into one point so it clears things up a bit. Perhaps summarize all Psychic-types into one point as well.

Keep the current spread imo - the insurance calcs vs Kyurem-W, Dialga and other Fighting-weak mons are pretty cool, also ensures a safer Ekiller matchup - the bulky Ekiller set is gaining a decent amount of popularity. You want Fightceus to 100% do what it is able to.
Going any faster doesn't make much sense to me, most stuff over the 100 speed tier is a fairly hard matchup, and 99% of them just get paralyzed.
Small thing that might be worth mentioning is that Fightceus isnt as good of a Ray switchin anymore due to Dragon Ascent, but if thats classed as referencing to previous generations then just leave it out.
Toxic should probably be in moves to prevent free Ghostceus setup (especially SD) but as you said the Gengar matchup becomes atrocious (it kinda is already, if Fightceus needs to be gone for the Gengar user it will be) and Xerneas has an easier time (Aroma Xern wins vs twave unless you wanna spam Xern with it...good luck if it turns out to be defensive)
Man the prediction game this mon forces on you vs offensive teams is just disgusting...bleugh. Be sure to tell the reader to judge what Fightceus will be good at beating from team preview and plan accordingly (Darkrai, Ekiller).
Mention that the Salamence matchup is extremely risky and should only be dealt with if Mence is not Mega (also mention that the Speed EVs outspeed it)

Other than that, you got some pretty extensive lists for team options and checks/counters here which is good. Fix up the spacing issues that im seeing.

QC 1/3

 

[Minority]

Did some things (implemented check + added my own stuff), honestly I still think Sludge Bomb is OO worthy (spread poison, beat down Fairies and other stuff) but it's gone for now.

Edit: Discussed and it's back. An important change for an important mon!

 

[Sweep]

252 SpA Arceus-Fighting Sludge Bomb vs. 104 HP / 0 SpD Xerneas: 190-224 (45.3 - 53.4%) -- 33.2% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Arceus-Fighting Sludge Bomb vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Xerneas: 190-224 (41.7 - 49.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Arceus-Fighting Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable: 144-170 (36.5 - 43.1%) -- 98.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Arceus-Fighting Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Fairy: 158-188 (35.5 - 42.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Totally fine with Sludge Bomb in OO, even if "beat down" is a little inaccurate :p

Is Zekrom really worth mentioning as a check? LO won't OHKO with Bolt Strike and Scarf Zekrom is horrible atm.

QC 2/3, you're good to go

 

[Minority]

This is written.

 

[Inspirited]

I'm sorry I didn't post about this earlier, but the only Fightceus I would even dream of running is a fast one if your sand build needs all forms of Mega Mence limited as much as you possibly can, and can still use qualities Fightceus brings, or the other spread that ZF developed that I have been loving recently in 44 Def / 252 SpA / 212 Spe Modest nature. Your spread as of now does not even dream of OHKOing 200 HP E-Killer who is slowly replacing every fast E-Killer not running Stone Edge (this is because of Gengar now running Protect on every set), Modest usually does, especially with sand damage. It takes a bigger chunk out of common psychics than i thought also which is extremely nice at times. The deal with this guy is, you make an extremely big laughing stalk out of Rockceus, this is a rather important part of its small niche that I think needs to be emphasized. All in all I think the main set needs more Speed. I love having this thing stay in to Thunder Wave a threat like Latios or Latias before it is sacced off instead of dieing before it can do anything.

I will also tag ZoroarkForever here since he is the man who has used this thing most (its his favorite mon iirc).

 

[Minority]

You say that you think the main spread needs more Speed, but the spread that you suggest, 212 Speed, is the same as 96 Timid. Modest surely does help against bulky EKiller, although now Arceus-Fighting has to forego running more bulk so that it can keep the same Speed it had, making it worse at switching into arbitrary special attacks from the threats mentioned. Modest is certainly worth mentioning, but I think its going to take a bit more collaboration to determine exactly what the main spread should be.

 

[Inspirited]

We talked about this a couple of times, and I think the general consensus was to have the Modest spread in Set Details even though I heavily prefer the Modest Spread because of the way it spreads damage and its ability to KO 200 HP Arceus and 2HKO 248 HP / 204 SpD Groudon after even the slightest bit of chip damage (Stealth Rock will almost always do it in).

When stating things Arceus-Fighting checks in the overview, **MENTION ROCKCEUS and Tyranitar**. Fightceus is the biggest downer on Rockceus ever so emphasize this. This is a very big part of its niche since Rockceus can usually span Judgment freely against most teams. Fightceus punishes this notion hard.

In Usage Tips, I would remove the first line altogether as Thunder Wave solves all of those issues (unfortunately :P). If a several non-Ground-types are Fightceus's most likely switch-ins, then Thunder Wave allows you to outspeed them the turn after they come in and hit them with the appropriate move regardless. If Groudon is the last potential switch in your opponent has left (it really isn't a switch-in tbh), you take a very significant chunk out of it with timid Judgment or 2HKO after Stealth Rock with Modest Judgment. It is also one of the few Arceus formes that can run enough Special Attack to OHKO Salamence which is why TWaving this guy on the switch is the best course of action in most cases. Also mention that comming in on Tyranitar can be tricky buisiness because it could just Thunder Wave you. Make sure Tyranitar has a very good reason not the Thunder Wave the turn you decide switch Fightceus in.

**MENTION BIRDS IN TEAM OPTIONS**. Rockceus is a massive and hard to punish switch-in for Bird Spam cores. Fightceus is one of the most reliable punishers of Rockceus and Tyranitar in the game which make it extremely nice on a team with Bird Spam cores that include Ho-Oh, Salamence, Yveltal, Rayquaza, etc.

Mention Paralysis and Toxic in Checks and Counters imo. You want to be outspeeding the Pokemon Fightceus paralyses, so getting Fightceus paralyzed and Toxic is the bane of bulky Arceus-formes in general.

If you could also fix your formatting a bit that would be fantastic. Here is the link for convenience.

Do this and I will stamp. Sorry for the wait.

 

[Minority]

Okay, did more things.

I removed the first sentence and added like 3 in its place.

Birds were actually already in team options, just mentioned one at a time.

 

[Inspirited]

My bad on the birds part, all i saw was the mentions of things that beat birds in team options (which is very important to have).

Good Work. Once again, sorry for the wait.

QC 3/3

 

[Minority]

Moving into GP stage.

 

[dhelmise]

Hide

[OVERVIEW]

Mono A mono-Fighting typing gives Fighting Arceus the ability to check relevant threats such as Extreme Killer Arceus, Darkrai, Rock Arceus, Tyranitar, Dialga, and a few other relevant threatsand Dialga. Fighting Arceus also has the raw stats and an excellent movepool that is available to all Arceus formes. Due toThanks to it being rarely utilized, Fighting Arceus can function as a lure and easily surprise opponents. Fighting isn't a very good type offensively, (AC) due to relevant Ghost-types such as Ghost Arceus, Giratina-O, and Mega Sableye being immune to Fighting Arceus's Judgment. Fighting Arceus's typing isn't stellar defensively either, being weak to Ho-oh, Xerneaas it is weak to Ho-Oh's, Xerneas's, and Mega Salamence's STAB attacks while offering no useful resisteances. Fighting Arceus also tends to preform poorly against defensive teams, and it is vulnerable to all status and entry hazards. Fighting Arceus is almost always a waste of an Arceus forme; reconsider using this Pokemon as it has little to no niche. (Analyses are supposed to encourage people to use a certain Pokemon; not discourage them.)
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[SET]
name: Support
move 1: Judgment
move 2: Recover
move 3: Thunder Wave
move 4: Ice Beam / Stone Edge
item: Fist Plate
ability: Multitype
nature: Timid
evs: 160 HP / 252 SpA / 96 Spe
nature: Timid
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[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Judgment is Fighting Arceus's specialty, allowing it to rip apart Extreme Killer Arceus, Darkrai, Dialga, Dark Arceus, Tyranitar, Mega Kangaskhan, and Rock Arceus, while also dealing significant damage to Primal Groudon, Klefki, and Ferrothorn. Recover prevents Fighting Arceus from simply being worn down after repeated switch-ins, allowing it to function beyond a one time check. Thunder Wave cripples common switch-ins to Fighting Arceus such as Ghost Arceus, Latias, Latios, Mega Gengar, and Mewtwo, and prevents it from being setup bait for Geomancy Xerneas. Ice Beam is used to blow away potential Mega Salamence switch-ins or Mega Salamence that setup; it also destroys Rayquaza and hits Pokemon such as Giratina-O, Latias, and Latios. Stone Edge destroys Ho-Oh switch-ins and still provides a means of hitting floairborne or Levitating targets that are immune to or resist Fighting Arceus's STAB attack. Toxic can be used instead of Thunder Wave in order to better punish Ghost Arceus, while still retaining methods of punishing Latios and Latias switch-ins; however, it worsens the matchup against Mega Gengar and Xerneas to some degree.
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Set Details
========

252 Special Attack EVs maximize the probability that Fighting Arceus will OHKO Extreme Killer Arceus, and they also ensures that Ice Beam OHKOes Mega Salamence. In general, (AC) the Special Attack EVs also help offset how poorly Fighting Arceus preforms against defensive teams. 96 Speed EVs with a Timid nature ensures that Fighting Arceus is faster than Mega Kangaskhan, which is also fast enough to move before Rayquaza variants and Latios and Latias that aren't maximum Speed. This investment is also enough to outspeed Mega Salamence before Mega Evolution so that Fighting Arceus can knock it out with Ice Beam. The remaining 160 EVs are allocated to HP so that Fighting Arceus better takes +2 Extreme Speed from Extreme Killer Arceus in addition to attacks from Darkrai and Dialga. A Fist Plate is required to transform Arceus intouse Fighting Arceus, and it boosts the power of Judgment by 1.2x. A spread of 44 Def / 252 SpA / 212 Spe with a Modest nature allows Fighting Arceus to OHKO bulky Extreme Killer Arceus while still retaining enough Speed to outspeedrun Mega Kangaskhan at the cost of the ability to switch into special attacks as well. Another spread of 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe with a Timid nature is an option to outspeed Mega Lucario, Mega Diancie, and Speed tie with opposing Arceus formes at the cost of not being able to check Extreme Killer Arceus and other special attackers with as much leniency.
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Usage Tips
========

Fighting Arceus's go-to move as to prevent big threats from getting free switch-ins is Thunder Wave. Paralysis cripples any threat that is faster than Fighting Arceus exclud, (AC) barring Ground Arceus and the rare Electric Arceus. Ground-types don't really switch into Fighting Arceus's Judgment well, as it deals significant damage even to specially defensive Primal Groudon. Although Fighting Arceus is a solid check to Tyrantiar, beware of Thunder Wave if you're switching it in, as paralysis eliminates the Speed advantage Fighting Arceus has over many threats. If Fighting Arceus is to serve as a counter to Extreme Killer Arceus, it must be at full health or near full health. This means that it is important to keep Fighting Arceus at high HP aso long as an opposing Extreme Killer Arceus is alive. Fighting Arceus has enough bulk to tank any of Darkrai's moves at +2, although bad luck with sleep turns can give Darkrai enough time to knock out Fighting Arceus before it can awake, so fodderKO Fighting Arceus before it can wake up, so using another Pokemon as sleep fodder to Dark Void and then switching in Fighting Arceus is usually a safer method of checking Darkrai. Although it is far from indestructible, Fighting Arceus is capable of liberally switching into powerful threats such as Dialga, Kyurem-W, and even predicted Earthquakes or Extreme Speeds from Rayquaza, although Dragon Ascent makes doing so more risky than in previous generations. Do not risk keeping Fighting Arceus in against a previously Mega Evolved Salamence if your team has a safe switch-in for it, (AC) as several spreads are faster than Fighting Arceus.
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Team Options
========

Primal Groudon covers Fighting Arceus's weakness to Fairy-types, Ho-Oh, and Primal Kyogre. Xerneas benefits from Fighting Arceus's ability to check to Steel-types, Mega Kangaskhan, and Extreme Killer Arceus while in returnKiller Arceus, and, in return, (AC) Xerneas can check Latios and Latias. Primal Kyogre appreciates Fighting Arceus's ability to check Pokemon such as Dialga and Ferrothorn, while Primal Kyogre can tackle Ho-Oh and Ghost-types. Mega Salamence greatly benefits from Fighting Arceus's ability to check to Rock Arceus. Fighting Arceus can check Dark Arceus for Latios and Latias, while in returnand, in return, (AC) they can provide Defog support for Fighting Arceus. Ho-Oh provides a switch-in for Fairy-type moves aimed at Fighting Arceus, and Fighting Arceus can check Rock Arceus for Ho-Oh in return. Yveltal also appreciates Fighting Arceus's ability to check Rock Arceus, although it does stack a weakness to Fairy-types. Ferrothorn can be used in order to provide Fighting Arceus with a Fairy-type switch in and a Primal Kyogre switch-in, (AC) and it offers an immunity to Toxic aimed at Fighting Arceus. Aegislash can provide a switch-in for Fairy-types and also provide a Toxic immunity. Tyranitar can be used to check Pokemon that threaten Fighting Arceus such as Ho-Oh, Yveltal, Latios, and Latias while in return, and, in return, (AC) Fighting Arceus checks Dialga. Rayquaza benefits from Fighting Arceus's ability to check Rock Arceus and Tyranitar; two common switch-ins to Dragon Ascent. Zekrom can threaten Ho-Oh, Lugia, and Primal Kyogre, all of which are common and powerful checks to Fighting Arceus. Mega Scizor, Mega Metagross, and Mega Lucario can all be used as offensive partners that check Fairy-types that threaten Fighting Arceus.
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[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

A Calm Mind set can be utilized in an effort to make Fighting Arceus more useful against defensive teams, however; (Add Semicolon) however, the nature of Fighting-type Judgment makes other Calm Mind Arceus formes a better choice in this role. Sludge Bomb can be used to pound away at Fairy-type switches and spread poison; however, hitting Mega Salamence or Ho-Oh with Fighting Arceus's coverage move is usually more relevant and potent. Will-O-Wisp can be used to neutercripple physical attackers, although some common switch-ins to Fighting Arceus such as Ho-Oh orand Fairy Arceus are immune or don't mind a burn much. A Defog support set is an option; however, this limits Fighting Arceus to either status or a coverage move, further increasing the number of threats that can easily switch into it. Roar can be used to phaze away Pokemon that attempt to set up on Fighting Arceus, while Magic Coat can reflect status and entry hazards, although it is hard to find room for either of these moves.
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Checks & and Counters
===================

**Fairy-types**: Xerneas, Fairy Arceus, Mega Diancie, and Clefable all resist Fighting Arceus's Judgment and can retaliate with strong super effective Fairy-type attacks.

**Ghost-types**: Ghost Arceus, Giratina-O, Mega Gengar, Mega Sableye, and Aegislash are all immune to Fighting Arceus's Judgment and can threaten it with status. Mega Gengar in particular outspeeds Fighting Arceus and can trap it with Shadow Tag.

**Flying-Types**: Ho-Oh, Mega Salamence, Lugia, Yveltal, Shaymin-S, and Flying Arceus have a type advantage against Fighting Arceus, allowing them to threaten it with powerful Flying-type moves. However, Ho-Oh fears Stone Edge, Mega Salamence, Shaymin-S, and Yveltal fear Ice Beam, and Lugia fears Toxic.

**Primal Kyogre**: Primal Kyogre has the sheer special bulk to tank Fighting Arceus's Judgment and can retaliate with powerful rain-boosted Water-type attacks.

**Psychic-Types**: Psychic-types such as Latios, Latias, Mewtwo, and Psychic Arceus resist Fighting Arceus's Judgment and can deal significant damage in return with their Psychic-type attacks.

**Blissey**: Although Blissey takes 2x super effective damage from Fighting Arceus's Judgment, its special bulk is extensive enough to where it can still stall out Fighting Arceus with Toxic.

**Paralysis**: Fighting Arceus relies greatly on its Speed advantage to check threats, and additionally, if Fighting Arceus is paralyzed, it is less effective at making use of the effects of Thunder Wave itself.

**Toxic**: Toxic poison causes Fighting Arceus to have to recover more often, prevents it from staying in very longfor long periods of time, and deals enough residual damage to make it more difficult to check intended threats.

GP 1/2

 

[Minority]

Fighting Arceus is almost always a waste of an Arceus forme; reconsider using this Pokemon as it has little to no niche. (Analyses are supposed to encourage people to use a certain Pokemon; not discourage them.)

Normally yes, but this Pokemon has an analysis more so because it has to have one rather than being a stand-alone viable Pokemon. The thing is that there are many Arceus formes that are simply better, and very rarely would you actually ever want to use this thing. The overview should reflect that.

Rest of check implemented, ready for second.

 

[Yonko7]

A bit Rocky Arceus

[OVERVIEW]

A mono-Fighting typing gives Fighting Arceus the ability to check relevant threats such as Extreme Killer Arceus, Darkrai, Rock Arceus, Tyranitar, and Dialga. Fighting Arceus also has the raw stats and an excellent movepool that is available to all Arceus formes. Thanks to it being rarely utilized, Fighting Arceus can function as a lure and easily surprise opponents. Fighting isn't a very good type offensively, due to relevant Ghost-types, such as Ghost Arceus, Giratina-O, and Mega Sableye, being immune to Fighting Arceus's Judgment. Defensively, Fighting Arceus's typing isn't stellar defensively either, as it is weak to Ho-oOh's, Xerneas's, and Mega Salamence's STAB attacks while offering no useful resistances. Fighting Arceus also tends to preform poorly against defensive teams, and it is vulnerable to all status and entry hazards. Fighting Arceus is almost always a waste of an Arceus forme; reconsider using this Pokemon as it has little to no niche.

[SET]
name: Support
move 1: Judgment
move 2: Recover
move 3: Thunder Wave
move 4: Ice Beam / Stone Edge
item: Fist Plate
ability: Multitype
nature: Timid
evs: 160 HP / 252 SpA / 96 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Judgment is Fighting Arceus's specialty, allowing it to rip apart Extreme Killer Arceus, Darkrai, Dialga, Dark Arceus, Tyranitar, Mega Kangaskhan, and Rock Arceus, while also dealing significant damage to Primal Groudon, Klefki, and Ferrothorn. Recover prevents Fighting Arceus from being worn down after repeated switch-ins, allowing it to function beyond a one time check. Thunder Wave cripples common switch-ins to Fighting Arceus, such as Ghost Arceus, Latias, Latios, Mega Gengar, and Mewtwo, and prevents it from being setup bait for Geomancy Xerneas. Ice Beam is used to blow away potential Mega Salamence switch-ins or Mega Salamence that set up (Added a space, it's talking about the verb); it also destroys Rayquaza and hits Pokemon such as Giratina-O, Latias, and Latios. Stone Edge destroys Ho-Oh and still provides a means of hitting airborne or Levitating targets that are immune to or resist Fighting Arceus's STAB attack. Toxic can be used instead of Thunder Wave in order to better punish Ghost Arceus while still retaining methods of punishing Latios and Latias switch-ins; however, it worsens the matchup against Mega Gengar and Xerneas to some degree.

Set Details
========

252 Special Attack EVs maximize the probability that Fighting Arceus will OHKO Extreme Killer Arceus, and they also ensure that Ice Beam OHKOes Mega Salamence. In general, the Special Attack EVs also help offset how poorly Fighting Arceus preforms against defensive teams. 96 Speed EVs with a Timid nature ensure that Fighting Arceus is faster than Mega Kangaskhan, which is also fast enough to move before Rayquaza variants, (AC) and Latios and Latias that aren't maximum Speed. This investment is also enough to outspeed Mega Salamence before Mega Evolution so that Fighting Arceus can knock it out with Ice Beam. The remaining 160 EVs are allocated to HP so that Fighting Arceus better takes +2 Extreme Speed from Extreme Killer Arceus in addition to attacks from Darkrai and Dialga. A Fist Plate is required to use Fighting Arceus, and it boosts the power of Judgment. A spread of 44 Def / 252 SpA / 212 Spe with a Modest nature allows Fighting Arceus to OHKO bulky Extreme Killer Arceus while still retaining enough Speed to outrun Mega Kangaskhan at the cost of the ability to switch into special attacks as well. Another spread of 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe with a Timid nature is an option to outspeed Mega Lucario, Mega Diancie, and Speed tie with opposing Arceus formes at the cost of not being able to check Extreme Killer Arceus and other special attackers with as much leniency.

Usage Tips
========

Fighting Arceus's go-to move to prevent big threats from getting free switch-ins is Thunder Wave. Paralysis cripples any threat that is faster than Fighting Arceus, barring Ground Arceus and the rare Electric Arceus. Ground-types don't really switch into Fighting Arceus's Judgment well, as it deals significant damage even to specially defensive Primal Groudon. Although Fighting Arceus is a solid check to Tyrantiar, beware of Thunder Wave if you're switching it in, as paralysis eliminates the Speed advantage Fighting Arceus has over many threats. If Fighting Arceus is to serve as a counter to Extreme Killer Arceus, it must be at or near full health. This means that it is important to keep Fighting Arceus at high HP as long as an opposing Extreme Killer Arceus is alive. Fighting Arceus has enough bulk to tank any of Darkrai's moves at +2, although bad luck with sleep turns can give Darkrai enough time to KO Fighting Arceus before it can wake up, so using another Pokemon to as sleep fodder to Dark Void and, (AC) then switching in Fighting Arceus is usually a safer method of checking Darkrai. Although it is far from indestructible, Fighting Arceus is capable of liberally switching into powerful threats such as Dialga, Kyurem-W, and even predicted Earthquakes or Extreme Speeds from Rayquaza, although Dragon Ascent makes doing so risky. Do not risk keeping Fighting Arceus in against a previously Mega Evolved Salamence if your team has a safe switch-in for it, as several spreads are faster than Fighting Arceus.

Team Options
========

Primal Groudon covers Fighting Arceus's weakness to Fairy-types, Ho-Oh, and Primal Kyogre. Xerneas benefits from Fighting Arceus's ability to check Steel-types, Mega Kangaskhan, and Extreme Killer Arceus, and, in return, Xerneas can check Latios and Latias. Primal Kyogre appreciates Fighting Arceus's ability to check Pokemon such as Dialga and Ferrothorn, while Primal Kyogre can tackle Ho-Oh and Ghost-types. Mega Salamence greatly benefits from Fighting Arceus's ability to check Rock Arceus. Fighting Arceus can check Dark Arceus for Latios and Latias, and, in return, they can provide Defog support for Fighting Arceus. Ho-Oh provides a switch-in for Fairy-type moves aimed at Fighting Arceus, and Fighting Arceus can check Rock Arceus for Ho-Oh in return. Yveltal also appreciates Fighting Arceus's ability to check Rock Arceus, although it does stack a weakness to Fairy-types. Ferrothorn can be used in order to provide Fighting Arceus with a Fairy-type switch -in (Hypen) and a Primal Kyogre switch-in, and it offers an immunity to Toxic aimed at Fighting Arceus. Aegislash can provide a switch-in for Fairy-types and also provide a Toxic immunity. Tyranitar can be used to check Pokemon that threaten Fighting Arceus, (AC) such as Ho-Oh, Yveltal, Latios, and Latias, and, in return, Fighting Arceus checks Dialga. Rayquaza benefits from Fighting Arceus's ability to check Rock Arceus and Tyranitar; two common switch-ins to Dragon Ascent. Zekrom can threaten Ho-Oh, Lugia, and Primal Kyogre, all of which are common and powerful checks to Fighting Arceus. Mega Scizor, Mega Metagross, and Mega Lucario can all be used as offensive partners that check Fairy-types that threaten Fighting Arceus.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

A Calm Mind set can be utilized in an effort to make Fighting Arceus more useful against defensive teams; however, the nature of Fighting-type Judgment makes other Calm Mind Arceus formes a better choice in this role. Sludge Bomb can be used to pound away at Fairy-type switches and spread poison; however, hitting Mega Salamence or Ho-Oh with Fighting Arceus's coverage move is usually more relevant and potent. Will-O-Wisp can be used to cripple physical attackers, although some common switch-ins to Fighting Arceus, (AC) such as Ho-Oh and Fairy Arceus, (AC) are immune or don't mind a burn much. A Defog support set is an option; however, this limits Fighting Arceus to either status or a coverage move further increasing the number of threats that can easily switch into it. Roar can be used to phaze away Pokemon that attempt to setup on Fighting Arceus, while Magic Coat can reflect status and entry hazards, although it is hard to find room for either of these moves.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Fairy-types**: Xerneas, Fairy Arceus, Mega Diancie, and Clefable all resist Fighting Arceus's Judgment and can retaliate with strong super effective Fairy-type attacks.

**Ghost-types**: Ghost Arceus, Giratina-O, Mega Gengar, Mega Sableye, and Aegislash are all immune to Fighting Arceus's Judgment and can threaten it with status. Mega Gengar in particular outspeeds Fighting Arceus and can trap it with Shadow Tag.

**Flying-Types**: Ho-Oh, Mega Salamence, Lugia, Yveltal, Shaymin-S, and Flying Arceus have a type advantage against Fighting Arceus, allowing them to threaten it with powerful Flying-type moves. However, Ho-Oh fears Stone Edge, Mega Salamence, Shaymin-S, and Yveltal fear Ice Beam, and Lugia fears Toxic.

**Primal Kyogre**: Primal Kyogre has the sheer special bulk to tank Fighting Arceus's Judgment and can retaliate with powerful rain-boosted Water-type attacks.

**Psychic-Types**: Psychic-types such as Latios, Latias, Mewtwo, and Psychic Arceus resist Fighting Arceus's Judgment and can deal significant damage in return with their Psychic-type attacks.

**Blissey**: Although Blissey takes 2x super effective damage from Fighting Arceus's Judgment, its special bulk is extensive enough to where it can still stall out Fighting Arceus with Toxic.

**Paralysis**: Fighting Arceus relies greatly on its Speed advantage to check threats, and, if Fighting Arceus is paralyzed, it is less effective at making use of the effects of Thunder Wave itself.

**Toxic**: Toxic poison causes Fighting Arceus to have to recover more often, prevents it from staying in for long periods of time, and deals enough residual damage to make it more difficult to check intended threats.

Minority Suspect , good job!

GP 2/2

 

[Minority]

Thanks for checking. This is now done.

 

[Sweep]

uploaded