NOC Fallout New Vegas NOC [GAME OVER - Wastelanders Win]

[rssp1]

Cancerous/sunny for me

I feel like spiffy is being incredibly paranoid which is generally a town tell but I dunno i'm getting mixed readings on him
Haunted's last post is weird because i've never seen any role like that before, is he saying that because he's courier/has knowledge of the courier or just that it's the first thing that popped up into his mind?

i'll hopefully be on tonight to actually bring up my full thoughts on the situation, still a bit busy.

 

[Haunted Diamond]

Yeah i have a weird thought process. I can't just easily associate spiffy with mafia because he has been trying reasonably to find the mafia with a good basis (myself included), on the other hand he has been tunneling me so hard even after when i told him about my situation and explained everything, he even went: "it doesn't matter if you explain things now", it just gives the image of someone trying too hard get what he wants without reason and using his power (the power being people like buttered toast blindly following him even though they have bigger suspects)

 

[LightWolf]

Okay I'm in a hurry because god knows how long there will be power and internet here:

Is it me or there is an extremely strong majority of people being okay with lynching spiffy, which I don't have that much of a problem with as far as reasonings matching up, but that seems like WAAAAAAAAY too many people without there being a good number of mafia in it, like off the top of my head who besides ButteredToast didn't actually list Spiffy as one of their options?

Heck I wouldn't have listed Spiffy as an option because I barely got some stuff on him to compare to in the future and he is too good of an asset to just throw away with the minimal suspicion I have on him that may just be a play style quirk, and during my discussion I tried to make it extremely clear I was pressuring him for info not trying to lynch him(heck I stated multiple times I'd fall back on the HD train simply because even as an innocent I'm okay with HD because it had had enough people comment on it either way, it was fairly balanced AND he went a few places early the day that can be used).

On the bright side if Spiffy is bad, which we will find out in future days, today's name drops should form a pretty good picture on whose bad and who isn't, but day 1 isn't the time to check this theory, especially with Spiffy who has been playing "good" in the sense that he is active and wants discussions to go places(places I don't agree with and still suspect him but he is 100% not day 1 lynch material)

It may sound silly that I'm jumping to his defense, but come on people, that list should raise some major red flags especially since mostly me and celever were the only ones butting heads with him till now. Also while I disagree with him wanting to pressure HD out of a claim before we decide that HD would be our vote, I see where he is coming from as he likely is convinced HD is bad if he is villager and by extension thinks he is bluffing, and frankly the way HD put it sounded pretty bluffy and desperate.

Now for my names

HD and Fate

Fate because of points made above that he is in a similar boat to HD, just a smaller one.

Do not likely expect my jalmont ruse discussion extending analysis today, because A it seems it'd come too late B I'm not leaving my laptop on the charger in such a big storm. Off to try and write an update for Curvy Bust Cream

 

[Spiffy]

I love how everyone waits until we're so close to deadline to vote for me/voice their suspicions of me. The only decent argument I have heard for my lynch is LightWolf's about my early contributions (minus the "NOC leader" shit which is honestly the worst justification for a lynch I have ever heard), which I have cleared up for him.

I also find it extremely interesting that nearly everyone agrees/agreed with me when I first got Celever, Cancerous (to an extent), Fatecrashers, Haunted Diamond onto their radars but suddenly I am a bigger target then any of them (looking at von here in particular).

Oh here comes Fatecrashers throwing something in about me so when he jumps on my wagon later it looks less suspicious.

We can agree to disagree about HD's role claim. I can see how some of the newer players think it was a "rolefish" but I feel like mafia are going to use this as an excuse to put the nail in my coffin.

Literally every mafia ever Day 1 would do the same exact thing that Haunted Diamond did: Imply they are a power role without revealing which one they are, and it's ridiculous that people are just allowing him to get by on this and condemning me for questioning it.

Will elaborate more later when I can get to a computer.

 

[Celever]

I love how everyone waits until we're so close to deadline to vote for me/voice their suspicions of me. The only decent argument I have heard for my lynch is LightWolf's about my early contributions (minus the "NOC leader" shit which is honestly the worst justification for a lynch I have ever heard), which I have cleared up for him.

I also find it extremely interesting that nearly everyone agrees/agreed with me when I first got Celever, Cancerous (to an extent), Fatecrashers, Haunted Diamond onto their radars but suddenly I am a bigger target then any of them (looking at von here in particular).

Oh here comes Fatecrashers throwing something in about me so when he jumps on my wagon later it looks less suspicious.

We can agree to disagree about HD's role claim. I can see how some of the newer players think it was a "rolefish" but I feel like mafia are going to use this as an excuse to put the nail in my coffin.

Literally every mafia ever Day 1 would do the same exact thing that Haunted Diamond did: Imply they are a power role without revealing which one they are, and it's ridiculous that people are just allowing him to get by on this and condemning me for questioning it.

Will elaborate more later when I can get to a computer.

I think you forgot to read my post.

 

[Haunted Diamond]

I love how everyone waits until we're so close to deadline to vote for me/voice their suspicions of me. The only decent argument I have heard for my lynch is LightWolf's about my early contributions (minus the "NOC leader" shit which is honestly the worst justification for a lynch I have ever heard), which I have cleared up for him.

I also find it extremely interesting that nearly everyone agrees/agreed with me when I first got Celever, Cancerous (to an extent), Fatecrashers, Haunted Diamond onto their radars but suddenly I am a bigger target then any of them (looking at von here in particular).

Oh here comes Fatecrashers throwing something in about me so when he jumps on my wagon later it looks less suspicious.

We can agree to disagree about HD's role claim. I can see how some of the newer players think it was a "rolefish" but I feel like mafia are going to use this as an excuse to put the nail in my coffin.

Literally every mafia ever Day 1 would do the same exact thing that Haunted Diamond did: Imply they are a power role without revealing which one they are, and it's ridiculous that people are just allowing him to get by on this and condemning me for questioning it.

Will elaborate more later when I can get to a computer.

You immidiately unlynching me showed how baseless and uncertain your suspect on me was. Why would you insist so hard on lynching someone when you aren't even sure they are mafia? Oh maybe you wouldn't care if someone important dies!

 

[Fatecrashers]

spiffy calm your paranoid fucking tits i was trying to show haunted the flaw in his reasoning, why would i jump on the wagon for you (which i'm not comfortable with, for the record) when i've voiced no suspicion of you previously and doing so would likely get me instantly mutilated

 

[Celever]

I love how everyone waits until we're so close to deadline to vote for me/voice their suspicions of me. The only decent argument I have heard for my lynch is LightWolf's about my early contributions (minus the "NOC leader" shit which is honestly the worst justification for a lynch I have ever heard), which I have cleared up for him.

I also find it extremely interesting that nearly everyone agrees/agreed with me when I first got Celever, Cancerous (to an extent), Fatecrashers, Haunted Diamond onto their radars but suddenly I am a bigger target then any of them (looking at von here in particular).

Oh here comes Fatecrashers throwing something in about me so when he jumps on my wagon later it looks less suspicious.

We can agree to disagree about HD's role claim. I can see how some of the newer players think it was a "rolefish" but I feel like mafia are going to use this as an excuse to put the nail in my coffin.

Literally every mafia ever Day 1 would do the same exact thing that Haunted Diamond did: Imply they are a power role without revealing which one they are, and it's ridiculous that people are just allowing him to get by on this and condemning me for questioning it.

Will elaborate more later when I can get to a computer.

When did you get Fate on people's radars as scum? I legitimately don't remember this, and I don't really think he's scummy.

Also literally ever player in HD's predicament would have (soft) claimed PR, regardless of alignment. In fact, as HD seems to be new to NOC, his not posting a claim but instead soft claiming is townie points in my eyes. New scum clam their fakes more easily because they think that it will relieve pressure from them. HD didn't do this.

 

[Spiffy]

I hate you all for making me do this on a phone.

Celever
First of all why don't you go answer my post #241 that you didn't answer because we were taking up too much of the discussion. You said we'd talk about it next day but since you want me lynched there's no reason not to respond to it now.

As for your post where you lynch me:
People are all wrong about the definition of tunneling. Tunneling is when a player only focuses on one player and consider no other option.

For example, Haunted Diamond and Fatecrashers were tunneling Jalmont for the entire game until called out on it.

When I put aggressive pressure on someone (which is not tunneling because I have done this to multiple players: Celever and Haunted Shadow most notably) I intentionally single them out and target them specifically because if they are mafia they can't pretend to have not seen it, and a lot of the times it's intimidating when someone singles you out and I can get a more genuine response. Aggressive does not equal scummy. You thinking my play style is ineffective also does not equal mafia.

You should sub out or something if you really think a vanillager should claim a power role if they're getting lynched holy shit. That could lead to the ACTUAL power role counter claiming and outing themselves to the mafia.

I started pressuring you because you are scummy. You are still scummy and I will probably continue pressuring you. You're just not the MOST scummy in the game.

Celever the rest of your "argument" to lynch me is a bunch of theoretical things you "think" I'm doing.

You say "I'm trying to seem town by..." Hmm... or maybe I could BE town by doing those things!!! Sure, it is the job of the mafia to do things that make them seem town. But there is a reason they act this way: because members of the town do the same thing. You can't just say "Spiffy's just trying to act town by doing these things" and call it an argument.

My favorite part is where you say that I am both "tunneling" (your definition) and "attacking everything that moves". Which is it? Instead of presenting a cohesive argument, you are saying literally any phrase that will paint me in a negative light.

I doubt I'll change your mind though, because whether you're village or mafia you'll consider it a positive that your antagonist is lynched.

Haunted Diamond how can you say in post #452 that my reasoning for voting for you had "good basis" but now ask me why I was voting for you if I wasnt ABSOLUTELY POSITIVE.

Tell me how I could be positive on Day 1 when there is no information. Are you positive in your vote?

To answer, I misunderstood your story. I thought you said that in response to the allegations about your flip to Cancerous, not the Jalmont stuff.

When someone has a good reason to lynch me let me know.

 

[sunny004]

Most likely Cancerous/Celever

I'm still sifting through the nightmare known as the last 18 pages so I'll provide reasons soon.

 

[Haunted Diamond]

Haunted Diamond how can you say in post #452 that my reasoning for voting for you had "good basis" but now ask me why I was voting for you if I wasnt ABSOLUTELY POSITIVE.

Tell me how I could be positive on Day 1 when there is no information. Are you positive in your vote?

To answer, I misunderstood your story. I thought you said that in response to the allegations about your flip to Cancerous, not the Jalmont stuff.

When someone has a good reason to lynch me let me know.

Good as in "reasonable to think so" good.

Which part did you misunderstand?

 

[Fatecrashers]

For example, Haunted Diamond and Fatecrashers were tunneling Jalmont for the entire game until called out on it.

could you kindly explain when i got 'called out' as it were? cos i'm fairly certainly i dropped the whole jalmont is scum thing during discussions with von and rssp1, right around where your debate with celever ended, and as i recall nobody called me out during that time period, especially not you

 

[Spiffy]

Like I said, I thought you meant you didn't get to read Cancerous' posts, meaning in my head you had no excuse for focusing on Jalmont for all of those pages. That is why I harped on that point for so long.

Plus now that you've softclaimed power role I'm obviously not gonna vote for you. This doesn't mean that I 100% believe you.

 

[Spiffy]

Fate I'm referring to when I called you out for it in my monster post.

 

[Fatecrashers]

Fate I'm referring to when I called you out for it in my monster post.

as i thought spiffy, but like i said i had already changed my mind on jalmont's scumminess way earlier than that, so your thinking that i didn't stop tunnelling until you called me out, which makes me look very mafia in your eyes, doesn't exactly hold true

 

[Amianki]

Spiffy

You're in my list because of your reads post. I looked at your scum->town order and glanced at the reasoning in that same order and it doesn't match up. It was difficult enough getting an idea of what type of read you had on everyone, but my rough estimate had around eight players sitting between nullscum and nulltown (light on each side) in what looks like a random order.

For someone who has spent so much time trying to get a lot of players involved in the game and directly engaging with a lot of people, your reads are incredibly close to null. I don't buy that someone who has engaged with close to every player in the game doesn't have particular reads on more than four people.

Completely ignoring my question (even asking for clarification if you didn't understand it would've helped) doesn't really help, either.

 

[sunny004]

wat

Jalmont - The no lynch at the beginning seemed scummy to me (I'm new to NOC so that's why I voted no lynch as well. Jalmont isn't as new methinks), even more so when he reverted it.

PokeguyNXB - He seems like he's trying to slip under the radar, and the posts he has made seem to be restating things already said or are not contributing. Kinda like me, but I think he's doing it on purpose.

Spiffy - Seems to be our lead scumhunter right now. Seems pretty town, doing some routine scumhunts, but I'd like to show you this quote from moi:

Yet, in the same sense, aren't you playing in a self preservationist way as well? You are dictating the action in a way to avoid yourself by constantly addressing others in an effort to deflect attention from yourself - by controlling conversation you keep others on the defensive instead of having to address your own issues of trustworthiness (and to the same extent won't answer your own question directly where you post it)

He seems towny enough to avoid a lynch today, but don't completely trust him either.

rssp1 - Completely acts like a townie imo; contributes regularly, etc

Serious Bananas - Hard to get a read... Not posting too much. Seems to kinda jump on bandwagons tho.

Butteredtoast - Inexperienced like me, though has contributed more. Like fatecrashers said he seems to assume too much.

Haunted Diamond - Has kept contribution to a minimum; most of the posts are against Jalmont.

Fatecrashers - Seems to post once in a while, contribution is good. I can't rly get a good read on him though.

Cancerous - The only posts he has really made are when he has pressure on him, which makes it seem like he's trying to fly under the radar.

Lighwolf - Has made a few posts. According to more experienced players this is normal lightwolf, so I don't think it's worth a lynch until more information arrives.

Celever - Spiffy called him out fo active lurking. Supposedly due to Ipad, seems to be contributing more now.

von - First few pages or so were kinda troll debates with moi but he seems to be more active now.

As you can probably tell I hate writing so if you need me to clarify/elaborate on anything pls ask

Top 3 lynch targets (In order):
Haunted Diamond
Cancerous
Jalmont

Also unvote if I have a vote up.

 

[vonFiedler]

Informal Vote Count so far:
Haunted.Diamond 4
Spiffy 5
Lightwolf 1
ButteredToast 2
sunny004 2
Cancerous 4
Celever 2
Fatecrashers 2

Although Celever voted three times and had HD as his third, so you could consider HD at 3 or 3.5. Jalmont, PokeguyNXB, Fatecrashers only voted once, which is not particularly helpful.

Is it me or there is an extremely strong majority of people being okay with lynching spiffy, which I don't have that much of a problem with as far as reasonings matching up, but that seems like WAAAAAAAAY too many people without there being a good number of mafia in it, like off the top of my head who besides ButteredToast didn't actually list Spiffy as one of their options?

On the contrary, it seems we are unfortunately split between HD, Spiffy, and Cancerous atm. With as many players as we have, none of these could be seen as excessively large numbers for an informal vote. And if they could, one could say the same of HD and Cancerous.

As for my reasoning against Spiffy, yes I read your wall of text and mostly agreed with it. Until Fatecrashers pointed out one massive factual error; that HD was voting for Jalmont before he was. Why lie about that?

Reading LW's walls of text, I also agree with much of what he says against you. You both make some good points, and as such both of your primary targets were of interest to me. But mostly this role fishing business just has no good excuse.

Anyway, it looks like at any rate we'll need to consider a serious lynch against Spiffy, Cancerous, or HD soon. For my part I think Cancerous is the weakest. He seems to have just been bullied this whole time, and day 1 is far too soon to lynch someone for "trying to seem active but contributing nothing". I would most like an HD lynch myself, as I'm a bit more cautious of lynching Spiffy.

 

[Amianki]

sunny004 you forgot about me (and Ullar too, but eh, circumstances)

 

[Amianki]

I'm not feeling a Cancerous wagon right now. Haunted.Diamond is leaning scum, but there's other players I'd rather lynch today.

 

[Haunted Diamond]

Mind explaining why i look scum? both you and sunny004

 

[Amianki]

It's mostly old stuff; I haven't gotten a particular read from individual posts either way since I replaced in.

 

[Haunted Diamond]

old stuff?

i have a headache. i'm gonna go to bed soon.
just for you guys to stop voting me, yes i did soft claim a power role. i will be staying up for another 10 minutes to answer any questions and then i'm going to bed.

 

[Spiffy]

Amianki
I said in the post that it was more of a "things I noticed" post than a "reads" post, which is why the list doesn't quite match up. I then combined these things with things I had already considered to get the order I posted. It may not have been the most efficient or clear way to rank them and was kind of done on a whim for the benefit of everyone. I don't hold much weight onto that last.

vonFiedler please quote where I lied because I can't find it anywhere. Also, why would you automatically assume I fabricated and not consider that is was a mistake? What would I gain from about this in the first place?

Also, how can you tell me that there is no excuse for my "rolefishing" (which I gave my reasoning for but no one agrees with me apparently) yet THE GUY YOU WANT TO LYNCH IS THE ONE THAT SOFTCLAIMED THE POWER ROLE. By this logic, it is ok to lynch the guy for softclaiming a power role, but not ok to ask him what his role is???? Your sudden suspicion of me really caught me off guard and is unfounded. The majority of your play this end half of Day 1 has been so weird. Like you just want the "informal vote" so me, HD, and Cancerous are the only options now? If you guys do vote me off for this terrible reasoning please look into vonFiedler.

 

[Haunted Diamond]

these are my two names: cancerous, sunny
Good Night.