ORAS UU Viability Ranking Thread M2

[r0ady]

I really didn't get what you meant but Feraligatr has a bunch of offensives checks & one counter in Quagsire ( Maybe even Poliwrath with even Atk EVs to break Fera's Sub with Circle Throw, anyway ). Anyway, The VR Thread isn't the thread to talk about future suspects of the UU Tier, if you wanna do so, try mentionning it in the NP Thread, thank you.

quag isnt a counter and the only offensive check to it is like yache berry shaymin or some shit

 

[Hogg]

Tangrowth is still a fairly solid counter because most SD sets run Sub or Aqua Jet over Ice Punch, and it pretty reliably beats DD Gatr. Poliwrath definitely counters, especially if it runs Encore to prevent Sub setup.

 

[YouthBerry]

Honestly, do you think that could go ou Feraligatr ? Have doesnt counters in uu as much in check but some ..

Not sure if Feraligator has a chance to go OU, but it's definitely a top tier threat in UU right now. I wouldn't say it doesn't have counters or checks though. Bulky physical Pokemon can live the one hit and do something. I mean, my current team relies on a non water resist to take on Feraligator first. I usually send in my max hp and def Weezing to come in Will-O-Wisp which cripples it and pretty much ends its attempted sweep. Substitute variations could be an issue with that strategy but I'm yet to encounter one. My other answer to it is mega abomasnow which lives all of its attacks from full health/around full health and fires back with stab super effective grass type moves. Overall Feraligator is a great mon, a top tier threat, and deserving of its S rank in this meta game, but not broken IMO.

Also, any love out there for Weezing? It's currently sitting in the "C" tier but I feel it could be moved up to B- or even B. It's great typing coupled with the ability Levitate gives it just one weakness in Psychic which is fairly uncommon in the current meta game. It has incredible physical bulk allowing it to stomach hits from pretty well all physical attackers, but handles fighting spam like SD Lucario and toxic/flame orb Heracross and Mienshao especially well. Also really good at answering Mega Aggron and stall tactics. Additionally, Mega Aero has trouble with Weezing if they don't run taunt. It has a great support move-pool including Toxic spikes (which are really really useful), Will-O-Wisp, Toxic, Clear smog, Destiny Bond, Taunt, and Momento. It has pain split for semi reliable recovery which actually works well due to Weezing's low HP stat, and then an underrated attacking move-pool filled with options that can help your team. Overall, I think it's a more valuable Pokemon than a lot of the Pokemon in "C" rank. Thoughts?

 

[Schpoonman]

Actually, Gatr has a plethora of offensive checks. One of the best answers to non-Sub Gatr (most of them, he desperately wants that third coverage move) is Heliolisk. Scarf Heliolisk, while not fantastic, pretty much beats every variant. He outspeeds +2 Adamant Gatr and OHKOs with Thunderbolt 87.5% of the time without prior damage. If they aren't DD (which I'm finding them to tend to be, I got beat by a DD Gatr last night, the same game the guy was bitching about my Mamoswine which did jack all) or Agility, Heliolisk can come in on a predicted SD or Water STAB and get a free KO. +1 Adamant Gatr fails to outspeed base 130 Pokemon, so there's a lot of shit that can answer him there. +1 Jolly Gatr fails to outspeed Mega Aero, Beedrill, and Sceptile, and Sceptile almost always OHKOs 0/4 Gatr with just Giga Drain. If he isn't running 4 SpDef EVs, Giga Drain ALWAYS OHKOs.

Garlando is right about Weezing, he comfortably lives a +1 Adamant Waterfall and can burn, retaliate with Thunderbolt (itself a decent chance to 2HKO after Rocks), Clear Smog away his boosts. Hell, you could spam Clear Smog until he decides to just KO you and then you can easily revenge with something like Shaymin or non-Scarf Heliolisk. I think people are freaking about a lack of defensive answers to Gatr (which explains that debacle last night) when we've got more than enough shit to check him offensively. If people aren't freaking out about Mega Aero who even more completely defeats Hyper Offense it's hypocritical as fuck to point fingers at Gatr because his (arguably) worst set (not that it's bad, just the least good) beats stall.

 

[Wanka]

I can agree and say weezing definitely has a niche and mono poison with levitate makes for a good defensive typing, but what is really keeping weezing at C rank is the fact that it really only works on one playstyle which is stall where it has a bunch of mons that can support its weakness to special hitters. Where as on other play styles it really just folds to powerful special attackers without the support of a mon like blissey making it bait for mons like pidgeot, chandelure, heliolisk, ampharos, and other prominent special hitters. Dont get me wrong I like weezing but I dont see it being as effective other than stall.

 

[Cactrune]

So, this is kind of controversial (primarily because I'm suggesting a change higher up in the rankings), but I'd like to nominate Snorlax for A+ rank. Here's my incredibly long-winded reasoning as to why.

Hide

There are a lot of reasons behind this, but I'd like to start with a summary. Snorlax is an incredible mon overall, and its great bulk allows it to set up on a large portion of the tier. It has few offensive checks besides Fighting and Ghost-types, which are easily removed and can be played around on most playstyles (more on that later). On the other hand, Snorlax can only really be defensively checked by Steel-types, and that pool is limited to Steels with Roar (Aggron and Empoleon) and Doublade, which is immune to Normal STAB. Once these are worn down or otherwise beaten, Snorlax has a pretty easy time sweeping, and it can arguably take special hits better than Suicune takes physical ones thanks to its incredible stats.

As I mentioned before, Lax is very easy to build around in this meta. You primarily need a Fighting check and Pokemon that can beat Steel and Ghost 'mons. Balance and stall (which most frequently use Lax) can use an enormous variety of Fighting resists, including Cresselia, Florges, Granbull, Crobat, and bulky Salamence. Most of these mons are very splashable on their various playstyles and can do many other things besides just beating Fighting-types. Ghosts are generally easy to remove thanks to the presence of powerful Pursuit users like Aerodactyl and Krookodile, the latter of which is exceptionally good for it ability to remove Steel-types. Steel-types, which lack reliable recovery, are easily worn down by hazard-stacking teams as well, and can also be trapped by Pokemon like Krookodile, Dugtrio, and Magnemite. The fact that Snorlax is so easily supported makes teambuilding around it easy and flexible.

Snorlax is also capable of doing more than sweeping. Like Suicune, it can check many different Pokemon throughout a match, and it is one of balance's most exemplary answers to Pidgeot, Nidoqueen, and Entei because of its incredible special bulk and access to Thick Fat.

Though the Curse set is Snorlax's best one without a doubt, it can also serve as a dedicated special wall with an Assault Vest equipped. Thanks to this item, it can serve as an even better answer to Nidoqueen, Pidgeot, and many more special attackers than ever before.

Tldr: Snorlax is easy to use, build around, and sweep with, and its incredible splashability allows it to compete with Suicune for the title of the best bulky sweeper in UU.

 

[Thisbemyalt]

1. I still think mega sceptile is the best water stopper in the tier. You're using the argument that it takes up a mega slot and while it does, it doesn't excuse the fact that Sceptile takes care of water types better than any of the other mons you listed. Whimsicott has no offensive presence and usually doesn't run giga drain. Shaymin doesn't have as good offensive stats to take care of those water types, Rotom-C is only limited to one move bc its scarfed and its usually volt switch so it can't excatly stop an opponent from sweeping. Roserade faces a similar problem to sceptile where it's weak as hell if giga drain and setup fodder if leaf storm, but doesn't 4x resist water attacks. Tangrowth is super slow and is can't even check special attacking waters like Blastoise well, whereas sceptile has no trouble taking it out.

2. The lose/lose thing isn't exactly true. Even if Suicune have rest, it can't do shit back, as giga drain sceptile risks a 3HKO, so it has to rest right after it wakes up and risk sleep talk again. it's more of a stalemate than anything else.

3. This is not the case if it is running knock off 0- Atk Mandibuzz Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Sceptile: 57-67 (20.2 - 23.8%) -- guaranteed 5HKO.

4. Opportunity cost isn't the main thing that should tell the viability of the pokemon. You're blowing it way out of porportion and saying "opportunity cost this" "opportunity cost that" and again, that shouldn't be the only thing telling how good something is. btw, the thing that sceptile offers that other grass types don't is STAB Dragon Pulse, which beats the dragon types that most grass types can't beat even in their dreams, and good Coverage in Focus Blast, which allows it to beat steel types. This is why I think it should stay B+.

Literally Your entire first point is idiotic, mega sceptile is not the best water stopper in the tier as a matter of fact it isn't even a great one. Whimsicott has plenty of offensive presence and almost always has giga drain, whimsi is very good with an offensive moveset. Rotom-C may be choice locked however I find that they are more commonly specs which means it is much harder to switch into and if it is scarf, trick makes it so not every specially bulky mon in existence can switch into you. Shaymin may not have as good stats but shaymin can run LO increasing power and seed flare makes it a much more consistent water stopper especially since min isn't destroyed by any ice moves a bulky water might carry. Finally opportunity cost is a huge reason to lower a mons viability considering using this mon makes it so you can't use other better megas frankly that alone should put mega scept down to B since mega scept is so damn mediocre in comparison to other megas.

 

[Geopolitics]

1. I still think mega sceptile is the best water stopper in the tier. You're using the argument that it takes up a mega slot and while it does, it doesn't excuse the fact that Sceptile takes care of water types better than any of the other mons you listed. Whimsicott has no offensive presence and usually doesn't run giga drain. Shaymin doesn't have as good offensive stats to take care of those water types, Rotom-C is only limited to one move bc its scarfed and its usually volt switch so it can't excatly stop an opponent from sweeping. Roserade faces a similar problem to sceptile where it's weak as hell if giga drain and setup fodder if leaf storm, but doesn't 4x resist water attacks. Tangrowth is super slow and is can't even check special attacking waters like Blastoise well, whereas sceptile has no trouble taking it out.

2. The lose/lose thing isn't exactly true. Even if Suicune have rest, it can't do shit back, as giga drain sceptile risks a 3HKO, so it has to rest right after it wakes up and risk sleep talk again. it's more of a stalemate than anything else.

3. This is not the case if it is running knock off 0- Atk Mandibuzz Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Sceptile: 57-67 (20.2 - 23.8%) -- guaranteed 5HKO.

4. Opportunity cost isn't the main thing that should tell the viability of the pokemon. You're blowing it way out of porportion and saying "opportunity cost this" "opportunity cost that" and again, that shouldn't be the only thing telling how good something is. btw, the thing that sceptile offers that other grass types don't is STAB Dragon Pulse, which beats the dragon types that most grass types can't beat even in their dreams, and good Coverage in Focus Blast, which allows it to beat steel types. This is why I think it should stay B+.

1. Offensive variants of whim do run Giga, Rotom-C can run lefties, Scarf, or Specs(!) that all beat water types, shaymin gets a LO and a 120 BP move that can drop spdef, Tangrowth (both defensive and LO variants) fucking shit on water types, Roserade gets utility in sleep and spikes. I'm sorry but you are both blatantly ignoring the fact that mons have other sets and that Sceptile is not some fabled water type slayer. if it was as godlike at stopping waters as you made it out to be, it would be A. It's not. Other mons do the same job that it does with similar or better effectiveness without costing a team its mega slot.

1a. Addressing the coverage arguments made at the bottom of point 3 here because they don't deserve their own point and frankly aren't that good. I'm gonna go ahead and give you a mon by mon breakdown of grass types that compete with Sceptile to get my point across.

Whimsicott: gets Fairy coverage which is infinitely better than drag coverage, and gets U-Turn for momentum, prankster, support moves, leech seed

Rotom-C: Electric coverage (beats flying types), support moves in Wisp/Pain Split, momentum with VS, can run Scarf, Specs, and Lefties giving it increased versatility.

Tangrowth: Regenerator, actually beats water types, support moves like Seeds/Knock/Sleep Powder, better movepool than sceptile, can run LO/Specs/AV/Lefties giving it increased versatility.

Shaymin: Bulkier, gets LO, coverage in Dazzle/Psychic/EP/HP Fire to choose from, can rest off damage, better STABS

2. Suicune quite literally loses nothing by continuing to click rest and sleep talk vs sceptile. Suicune either can threaten scept with a burn, get another CM, or lose 36% of its health, all of which translate to Suicune winning end game.

3. Quite literally every mandi does and should run foul play to check mence and prevent it from being setup fodder for stuff like gatr.

4. Opportunity cost is a major reason to recategorize megas and weigh them more harshly against other mons in the rankings. When you have the option to just slap a rotom-c on over Sceptile and then add Aero to blanket check half the tier and check offense then you have quite literally zero reason not to do it. I could see your argument if Sceptile wasn't one dimensional, weak, and frail, but better mons exist for doing that job. You haven't given me or anyone reading this thread a reason to not weigh the opp cost argument other than saying "thats not how it should be." Until you provide evidence showing why opp cost is a false philosophy when judging megas (along with providing concrete evidence for the rest of my post) then I still firmly believe that Mega Sceptile should drop to B.

 

[Hogg]

I would say that by far the most common Whimsi set, at least in tournament play and toward the top of the ladder, is U-turn/Moonblast/Giga Drain/Encore. It tends to do a pretty good job at breaking Water types, especially those that rely on setup moves such as Suicune or Slowking. Sometimes Giga Drain is dropped in favor of something like Tailwind or Memento, but that seems to be the exception rather than the rule.

Mega-Sceptile has mostly been alright but underwhelming in my experience. I've seen some solid teams that built around it, but overall... Eh.

 

[Uniterflash]

Literally Your entire first point is idiotic, mega sceptile is not the best water stopper in the tier as a matter of fact it isn't even a great one.

Was that really necessary? I honestly think this thread would be a much nicer place if we could disagree with each other respectfully without bashing someone else's opinion. I find it sickening and as a shy user who lurks frequently seeing things like that like this discourage me from even wanting to post or participate in discussions here. The rest of your post was valid and well-informed, I just think that sentence was extremely rude and unnecessary.

 

[jamashawalker]

Who said Quagsire wasn't a check/counter to Feraligatr?

252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 168-199 (42.6 - 50.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 153-181 (38.8 - 45.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

At least it's a stop at best

 

[yamb]

Was that really necessary? I honestly think this thread would be a much nicer place if we could disagree with each other respectfully without bashing someone else's opinion. I find it sickening and as a shy user who lurks frequently seeing things like that like this discourage me from even wanting to post or participate in discussions here. The rest of your post was valid and well-informed, I just think that sentence was extremely rude and unnecessary.

Do terrible arguments really need to be coddled? Viability ranking threads never resemble hug boxes since everyone has their own opinion and every opinion will be contested to form a consensus. If I came in here and said SCRAFTY IS LITERALLY BETTER THAN HERACROSS A+ PLEASE you would have every right to call be a fucking moron if I backed that statement up with categorically false nonsense.

 

[Cactrune]

Who said Quagsire wasn't a check/counter to Feraligatr?

252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 168-199 (42.6 - 50.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 153-181 (38.8 - 45.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

At least it's a stop at best

We've discussed this before in VR, so I'm just going to show you YABO's argument from then.

For Quagsire to rise it would actually need to counter Feraligatr. Any team with Quagsire is going to have trouble keeping hazards off the field and as soon as they stay and Gatr comes in this happens.

252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 168-199 (42.6 - 50.5%) -- 93.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock, 1 layer of Spikes, and Leftovers recovery

Also, since Quag would likely take up your bulky water slot then it would lose its leftovers at some point due to knock off spam and Krookodile and such.

252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 168-199 (42.6 - 50.5%) -- 93.4% chance to 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes

Not to mention, any sort of random chip damage from like Mienshao's U-turn or something will put you into 2hko range meaning that any time gatr comes in you have to fodder a pokemon to "counter" it.

TLDR: Quagsire is too easy to wear down throughout a match to be a good stop.

 

[Godsend]

Do terrible arguments really need to be coddled? Viability ranking threads never resemble hug boxes since everyone has their own opinion and every opinion will be contested to form a consensus. If I came in here and said SCRAFTY IS LITERALLY BETTER THAN HERACROSS A+ PLEASE you would have every right to call be a fucking moron if I backed that statement up with categorically false nonsense.

There's never need to be an asshole. Yeah, some people are obnoxious and misinformed but those people are generally inexperienced and are seeking to get better.

 

[r0ady]

Who said Quagsire wasn't a check/counter to Feraligatr?

252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 168-199 (42.6 - 50.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 153-181 (38.8 - 45.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

At least it's a stop at best

i clearly said it wasnt a counter, if quag isnt at absolute full its not taking 2 waterfalls

 

[Uniterflash]

Do terrible arguments really need to be coddled? Viability ranking threads never resemble hug boxes since everyone has their own opinion and every opinion will be contested to form a consensus. If I came in here and said SCRAFTY IS LITERALLY BETTER THAN HERACROSS A+ PLEASE you would have every right to call be a fucking moron if I backed that statement up with categorically false nonsense.

What if you were new? I'm not going to condemn someone for being new and misinformed, that's just flat out wrong and silly. At some point we've all been that guy to think Scrafty was great, or Choice Band Rock Head Aggron is awesome. Obviously now we know they are not, but I think as a community we have a duty and a responsibility to guide newer players that are seeking to get better, not shove them away and bash them.

 

[Thisbemyalt]

Alright can we stop this I just said he made an idiotic statement its not like I had a full roast session on the man.

Anyway some things I wanted to chime in on, Lax to A+ is something I have supported for awhile and Im sure many others would like this great wincon/fire check to be in A+. As far as weezing is concerned I feel it deserves its C rank mostly because of how potent fighting spam is and I believe it can also handle mamo without hax so I think that helps it out too. Finally can someone please explain to me why is tenta not being moved down. This was never addressed and a lot of people agreed with it so I am still looking for a reason as to why it didn't happen.

 

[r0ady]

What if you were new? I'm not going to condemn someone for being new and misinformed, that's just flat out wrong and silly. At some point we've all been that guy to think Scrafty was great, or Choice Band Rock Head Aggron is awesome. Obviously now we know they are not, but I think as a community we have a duty and a responsibility to guide newer players that are seeking to get better, not shove them away and bash them.

if someone is new you shouldnt be posting in VR imo

 

[Godsend]

if someone is new you shouldnt be posting in VR imo

If they're new they prob don't know that imo

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

Yeah even if someone is evidently inexperienced from their posts here, it's still not okay to fire an ad hominem at them for the crime of being inexperienced. If it's clear someone is inexperienced, then try sending them to somewhere like Battling 101 where they can learn how to play competitive Pokemon efficiently. There's no need to act like an ass and make a hostile comment to someone because they aren't experienced.

Smogon is already an unwelcoming place and that comment that said his statement was idiotic is really only adding to our already hostile and unwelcoming environment. Even if a post clearly shows that the person who posted it is inexperienced, it isn't okay to address it with hostility and dismissal.

So yeah even if it's clear someone's suggestion is wrong there isn't any need to fire ad hominem attacks. A lot of these people are just trying their level best to become a part of this community and the hostility and dismissal to drive these users away is exactly why new users don't get into our community very easily and even why a few old users leave.

 

[Thisbemyalt]

Yeah even if someone is evidently inexperienced from their posts here, it's still not okay to fire an ad hominem at them for the crime of being inexperienced. If it's clear someone is inexperienced, then try sending them to somewhere like Battling 101 where they can learn how to play competitive Pokemon efficiently. There's no need to act like an ass and make a hostile comment to someone because they aren't experienced.

Smogon is already an unwelcoming place and that comment that said his statement was idiotic is really only adding to our already hostile and unwelcoming environment. Even if a post clearly shows that the person who posted it is inexperienced, it isn't okay to address it with hostility and dismissal.

So yeah even if it's clear someone's suggestion is wrong there isn't any need to fire ad hominem attacks. A lot of these people are just trying their level best to become a part of this community and the hostility and dismissal to drive these users away is exactly why new users don't get into our community very easily and even why a few old users leave.

Well since moving on is clearly not happening I suppose I should defend myself.
1. there were no "ad hominem attacks" I called his post idiotic not him
2. I didn't realize his post number so I suppose I shouldn't have been rude however frankly I am just a naturally harsh person I woulda said much worse to friends so I really did not mean to be rude but looking back on it not everyone knows my personality so sorry there
3. To Epic and any new player that reads this you should probably only lurk here while getting tips from battling 101 and Competitive tutoring on ps, once you understand the meta better you can be much more productive and intelligent on forums plus you will have more fun.
4. People need to stop being so defensive like geez I know half of you people liking/posting this "be nice and welcoming" stuff have said so much worse than what I said lol.
5. can we please discuss rankings now lol I am pretty done with this and it is an argument that will most likely be deleted by a mod soon anyway.

 

[Chamaeleon]

I think the lesson here is dont be super harsh to other users, and if you are getting harsh treatment, take it with a grain of salt :] Now can we get back to the viability discussion?

1. I still think mega sceptile is the best water stopper in the tier.

Honestly, There is other things besides grass types that stop waters. There is Helioisk, Guts Heracross which can use lots of bulky waters to get a burn from and deal massive damage, etc. All of which lowers Sceptile's viability as a bulky water answer.

calcs

252 Atk Guts Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 187-222 (46.2 - 54.9%) -- 10.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Guts Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 205-243 (50.7 - 60.1%) -- 86.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

4 SpA Suicune Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Heracross: 84-99 (27.9 - 32.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after burn damage

252 Atk Guts Heracross Close Combat vs. 200 HP / 252 Def Vaporeon: 307-363 (68 - 80.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Guts Heracross Close Combat vs. 200 HP / 252 Def Vaporeon: 339-399 (75.1 - 88.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 SpA Vaporeon Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Heracross: 99-117 (32.8 - 38.8%) -- 99.3% chance to 3HKO

252+ Atk Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Heracross: 156-184 (51.8 - 61.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after burn damage

252+ Atk Feraligatr Crunch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Heliolisk: 138-163 (52 - 61.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Heliolisk Volt Switch vs. 196 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 356-420 (98.8 - 116.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

Sceptile is outclassed by many things that also perform other roles while still having room for a mega slot on the team. Sceptile should move down, however I still thing its a viable mega in UU.

 

[Ducem]

Okay, I saw some recent posts about lax being moved to A+. Finally, we find time to talk about this. Fully supporting lax moving to A+ curselax is nasty to go against, it being able to devour almost any mon in the tier (depending on the coverage move it runs). Also it only fears fighting types, whimsy and phasers (which, I only find phasers annoying at best). I also feel that it's other sets are also totally unexpected. choice banded lax hits like a truck with return, and AV lax laughs at any non-fighting special attack. Overall, lax is a highly versatile pokemon that deserves a rise up.

 

[dodmen]

Alright no reason to get this heated over simple viability rankings, which are after all completely subjective. Any further posts that don't actually discuss viability are gonna be deleted.

Here are a couple nominations that have come up in the council discussion that we'd like to see some more thoughts on: Mega Pidgeot to S, Mega Beedrill to A+, Tentacruel to A-, Mienshao to A. Anything relevant about Sceptile has probably already been stated at this point so we should move on from that and the VR council will have a decision on that next time we make changes. Of course you're still welcome to nominate and discuss other things, such as Snorlax to A+.

 

[Adaam]

Alright no reason to get this heated over simple viability rankings, which are after all completely subjective. Any further posts that don't actually discuss viability are gonna be deleted.

Here are a couple nominations that have come up in the council discussion that we'd like to see some more thoughts on: Mega Pidgeot to S, Mega Beedrill to A, Tentacruel to A-, Mienshao to A. Anything relevant about Sceptile has probably already been stated at this point so we should move on from that and the VR council will have a decision on that next time we make changes. Of course you're still welcome to nominate and discuss other things, such as Snorlax to A+.

Isn't Beedrill already A? Anyway, it's about damn time Pidgeot goes up to S. This monster IMO is the most terrifying mon in UU, more so than Aero. Aero has some counters that always win 1v1, such as Suicine, Bronzong, Swampert and other moms pending its moveset. Pidgeot 's only switch ins are Emp, Ampharos, Porygon2, Blissey (massive set up bait for Work Up + Refresh), and Umbreon (also set up bait). But what really pushes it over the edge to S is the disgusting confusehax Pidgeot causes. The have been so many times Pidgeot muscles through Empoleon or Florges after getting a confusion off, which pretty much gives the Pidgeot user a win or puts him in a veeeery favorable position to win.

Idc if Aero checks it. It hates switching in on Hurricanes (it does like 35% or something) and is pressured to Roost is rocks are up or switch if confused. If Aero is why Pidgeot isn't S then move Aero down since Cune is everywhere