It's refrigerate, not refridgerate
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Almost Any Ability ORAS Viability Rankings
- Thread starter Klang
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Primordial sea isn't listed on genesect when it's probably its best choice.
Sheer force LO deoxys-speed is nice as well. Outspeeds pretty much anything without any speed investment and nasty plot psychic hits hard. Sheer force on ttar too as that lets it boost rock slide and also crunch without LO recoil.
Sheer force LO deoxys-speed is nice as well. Outspeeds pretty much anything without any speed investment and nasty plot psychic hits hard. Sheer force on ttar too as that lets it boost rock slide and also crunch without LO recoil.
Lcass4919
The Xatu Warrior
primordial seas genesect is good, but i wouldnt say it is its BEST choice...(actually out of all the choices mentioned, id argue its one of the worst) but i would agree with thunder and water technoblast alongside its immunity to its one weakness, it at least deserves a mention.
another thing for gene is refrigerate, as it gains boltblast(technoblast) alongside flamethrower/bug buzz and espeed for burdz, ive used it and its fairly worth a teamslot.
Chesnaught for high B rank
Chesnaught has an amazing physical bulk combined with a great typing (most notable resistances being fighting, water, rock and ground) and really good movepool. His poison heal set is the best as it goes really well with leech seed and spiky shield but I've run other sets with success like flash fire or intimidate.
On top of countering / checking a lot of the physical metagame, worry seed and leech seed also make him a really good answer to poison heal set up mons like zygarde, suicune or snorlax.
Chesnaught is also a stop to some pokemon that i usually struggle to deal with on balanced team like mega swampert under rain or ddance mega gyarados. And they often become set up bait.
Grass type also makes him immune to leech seed and spore making him a great switchin to breloom and ferrothorn and even using them as set up bait.
All in all chesnaught is a great pokemon and I don't know why he's not in the rankings yet.
Meloetta for low B / B rank
I've been using her for quite a while now and she's on a bunch of my teams. And I absolutely love her.
I started using this when looking for a pokemon capable of countering latios and gengar simultaneously. Meloetta has a fantastic 100 / 128 special bulk and a really decent typing making her immune to shadow ball, resistant to psychock and neutral to focus blast.
Even if at first glance meloetta seems outclassed by goodra she has a couple of things goodra wish it could have (like the ability to switch on latios). The regenvest set can run knock off and u-turn providing great momentum to the team and being a big annoyance for the entire battle on top of dealing some really decent damage from her fully invested 128 base special attack and decent special movepool. Energy ball can hit manaphy, T-bolt can hit skarmory, shadow ball can hit lati and doublade (neither of them want to take a knock of either) and focus blast can hit ferrothorn and can ohko a ttar trying to pursuit trap her.
The poison heal set is a more passive set and doesn't have as much offensive presence but has the ability to set up and to absorb status. ph meloetta always beats ph crocune and is a really reliable answer to tail glow manaphy on top of genuinely being a great special wall.
Honchkrow from A to high A and similarly Staraptor from high A to A
Well this argument really is about "who's the better burd" it has been mentioned before and I'm saying it again, staraptor is probably the worst and honchkrow is probably the best.
First of all honchkrow and muricaburd both have a base 100 hp making them able to tank a bit more brave bird recoil damage.
Braviary has the niche of having a stronger bulk and being able to run a bulk up + poison heal set successfully.
Honchkrow has the niche of having a base 105 special attack making it able to pass skarmory and doublade with heat wave or dark pulse. Honchkrow also has pursuit which can ohko pokemons who don't want to stay on a gale wing pokemon like victini or genagar. It Can also deal some really strong damage to goodra or chansey.
On top of that when playtesting my magic guard team, I noticed that it was a really viable ability for honchkrow. You still have the priority in sucker punch but you ignore sr, lo recoil and brave bird recoil. In fact honchkrow is probably the best user of magic guard (volcarona is overated).
4 SpA Life Orb Honchkrow Heat Wave vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 250-294 (74.8 - 88%)
252+ Atk Life Orb Honchkrow Pursuit vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 103-122 (30.8 - 36.5%)
4 SpA Life Orb Honchkrow Heat Wave vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Doublade: 135-161 (41.9 - 50%)
252+ Atk Life Orb Honchkrow Pursuit vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade: 174-205 (54 - 63.6%)
Staraptor's only niche was the fact that he could outspeed gale wing chatot. Which isn't really relevant right now.
Last notes, what is celebi doing in high B? his bulk is just not good enough. He use to be good when keldeo was a thing but now his only niche is to counter suicune. (it doesn't even counter unaware cress since cress can pp stall it with rest).
Other than that there's a few abilities that aren't in the rankings and I think they should be.
Hope I didn't make too many typos.
Chesnaught has an amazing physical bulk combined with a great typing (most notable resistances being fighting, water, rock and ground) and really good movepool. His poison heal set is the best as it goes really well with leech seed and spiky shield but I've run other sets with success like flash fire or intimidate.
On top of countering / checking a lot of the physical metagame, worry seed and leech seed also make him a really good answer to poison heal set up mons like zygarde, suicune or snorlax.
Chesnaught is also a stop to some pokemon that i usually struggle to deal with on balanced team like mega swampert under rain or ddance mega gyarados. And they often become set up bait.
Grass type also makes him immune to leech seed and spore making him a great switchin to breloom and ferrothorn and even using them as set up bait.
All in all chesnaught is a great pokemon and I don't know why he's not in the rankings yet.
Meloetta for low B / B rank
I've been using her for quite a while now and she's on a bunch of my teams. And I absolutely love her.
I started using this when looking for a pokemon capable of countering latios and gengar simultaneously. Meloetta has a fantastic 100 / 128 special bulk and a really decent typing making her immune to shadow ball, resistant to psychock and neutral to focus blast.
Even if at first glance meloetta seems outclassed by goodra she has a couple of things goodra wish it could have (like the ability to switch on latios). The regenvest set can run knock off and u-turn providing great momentum to the team and being a big annoyance for the entire battle on top of dealing some really decent damage from her fully invested 128 base special attack and decent special movepool. Energy ball can hit manaphy, T-bolt can hit skarmory, shadow ball can hit lati and doublade (neither of them want to take a knock of either) and focus blast can hit ferrothorn and can ohko a ttar trying to pursuit trap her.
The poison heal set is a more passive set and doesn't have as much offensive presence but has the ability to set up and to absorb status. ph meloetta always beats ph crocune and is a really reliable answer to tail glow manaphy on top of genuinely being a great special wall.
Honchkrow from A to high A and similarly Staraptor from high A to A
Well this argument really is about "who's the better burd" it has been mentioned before and I'm saying it again, staraptor is probably the worst and honchkrow is probably the best.
First of all honchkrow and muricaburd both have a base 100 hp making them able to tank a bit more brave bird recoil damage.
Braviary has the niche of having a stronger bulk and being able to run a bulk up + poison heal set successfully.
Honchkrow has the niche of having a base 105 special attack making it able to pass skarmory and doublade with heat wave or dark pulse. Honchkrow also has pursuit which can ohko pokemons who don't want to stay on a gale wing pokemon like victini or genagar. It Can also deal some really strong damage to goodra or chansey.
On top of that when playtesting my magic guard team, I noticed that it was a really viable ability for honchkrow. You still have the priority in sucker punch but you ignore sr, lo recoil and brave bird recoil. In fact honchkrow is probably the best user of magic guard (volcarona is overated).
4 SpA Life Orb Honchkrow Heat Wave vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 250-294 (74.8 - 88%)
252+ Atk Life Orb Honchkrow Pursuit vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 103-122 (30.8 - 36.5%)
4 SpA Life Orb Honchkrow Heat Wave vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Doublade: 135-161 (41.9 - 50%)
252+ Atk Life Orb Honchkrow Pursuit vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade: 174-205 (54 - 63.6%)
Staraptor's only niche was the fact that he could outspeed gale wing chatot. Which isn't really relevant right now.
Last notes, what is celebi doing in high B? his bulk is just not good enough. He use to be good when keldeo was a thing but now his only niche is to counter suicune. (it doesn't even counter unaware cress since cress can pp stall it with rest).
Other than that there's a few abilities that aren't in the rankings and I think they should be.
-Sheer force thundurus
-Normalize gengar
-Volt absorb mandibuzz (even if I think someone said this already)
-Sheer force manaphy
-Levitate doublade
-Poison heal Zygarde
-Download / levitate diancie -> Mega
-Prankster Deoxys-D
-Normalize gengar
-Volt absorb mandibuzz (even if I think someone said this already)
-Sheer force manaphy
-Levitate doublade
-Poison heal Zygarde
-Download / levitate diancie -> Mega
-Prankster Deoxys-D
Doublade from High B to Low S Rank
I think many AAA players can agree that this has reached skarmory's level of usefulness, or even surpassed; doublade is a pokemon that is viable on pretty much every single aaa team in existence, since it fits on Hyper Offense teams, Balance teams, and Stall teams. It has pursuit so that you can take out something for the rest of the match, gyro ball for an insanely powerful STAB against fast things, Sacred sword to break through defense boosting pokemon, swords dance to help it break through some walls or potentially sweep, and shadow sneak for priority.
Regenerator - Increases Doublade's longevity while letting it come in as much as necessary to wall threats. You can constantly wear down the thing you wall with pursuit while gaining health as you switch. It's just an amazing pivot overall.
Flash Fire - Wall Victini, Entei, and any other mons that rely on fire type attacks to hit doublade, while pursuit trapping them to cripple them for the rest of the match.
Levitate - Come in on and set up on Snorlax, +2 Mega Metagross, Garchomp, Zygarde...so many things rely on ground type attacks to hit Doublade, and with Levitate, you can do whatever you want with them.
The reliance on eviolite and lack of reliable recovery prevent it from being high S rank, but doublade shouldn't be taking knock offs regardless, and it probably wouldn't be using its reliable recovery too much anyways due to using offensive pressure to do the trick.
Zapdos from Low S Rank to Mid A Rank
Zapdos just isn't as good as it once was. People have begun to spam ridiculously powerful attacks, and the meta has really adapted too much to this thing. Motor drive manaphy is everywhere, pulling off a sweep should it get a boost. PH Snorlax is everywhere, switching in and getting free curses against this thing. Birds aren't nearly as prevalent as they once were, and one of the main reasons people even used Zapdos in the first place was to check birds.
I don't really have much to say about this thing because there really isn't too much to say; zapdos has lost much of its utility, and although it's still a great pokemon, it's not S Rank anymore.
Blaziken to Low B Rank
No more Blazikenite. rip. It can still run a good magic guard set though.
Agreeing with everything motherlove said
I think many AAA players can agree that this has reached skarmory's level of usefulness, or even surpassed; doublade is a pokemon that is viable on pretty much every single aaa team in existence, since it fits on Hyper Offense teams, Balance teams, and Stall teams. It has pursuit so that you can take out something for the rest of the match, gyro ball for an insanely powerful STAB against fast things, Sacred sword to break through defense boosting pokemon, swords dance to help it break through some walls or potentially sweep, and shadow sneak for priority.
Regenerator - Increases Doublade's longevity while letting it come in as much as necessary to wall threats. You can constantly wear down the thing you wall with pursuit while gaining health as you switch. It's just an amazing pivot overall.
Flash Fire - Wall Victini, Entei, and any other mons that rely on fire type attacks to hit doublade, while pursuit trapping them to cripple them for the rest of the match.
Levitate - Come in on and set up on Snorlax, +2 Mega Metagross, Garchomp, Zygarde...so many things rely on ground type attacks to hit Doublade, and with Levitate, you can do whatever you want with them.
The reliance on eviolite and lack of reliable recovery prevent it from being high S rank, but doublade shouldn't be taking knock offs regardless, and it probably wouldn't be using its reliable recovery too much anyways due to using offensive pressure to do the trick.
Zapdos from Low S Rank to Mid A Rank
Zapdos just isn't as good as it once was. People have begun to spam ridiculously powerful attacks, and the meta has really adapted too much to this thing. Motor drive manaphy is everywhere, pulling off a sweep should it get a boost. PH Snorlax is everywhere, switching in and getting free curses against this thing. Birds aren't nearly as prevalent as they once were, and one of the main reasons people even used Zapdos in the first place was to check birds.
I don't really have much to say about this thing because there really isn't too much to say; zapdos has lost much of its utility, and although it's still a great pokemon, it's not S Rank anymore.
Blaziken to Low B Rank
No more Blazikenite. rip. It can still run a good magic guard set though.
Agreeing with everything motherlove said
Honchkrow, add Adaptability
Doublade, add Flash Fire, take off Natural Cure
Blaziken, take off Illusion and download, add magic guard.
Jellicent, add lightningrod
Cresselia, add Harvest
Suicune, add Harvest and Suction Cups
Diancie, add poison heal, add illusion/download -> Mega Diancie
Ferrothorn, add Magic bounce, add Tough claws, add Mold Breaker
Doublade, add Flash Fire, take off Natural Cure
Blaziken, take off Illusion and download, add magic guard.
Jellicent, add lightningrod
Cresselia, add Harvest
Suicune, add Harvest and Suction Cups
Diancie, add poison heal, add illusion/download -> Mega Diancie
Ferrothorn, add Magic bounce, add Tough claws, add Mold Breaker
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Recently, I've been trying out Specs Tinted Lens Raikou as a grass lure for Manaphy, and it's really been working out. It can 2HKO Physically Defensive Ferrothorn (:o) and three-hit-ko specially defensive variants of Ferrothorn, as well as other grass types like Amoongus. Here's the set:
bring in ferro (Raikou) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Extrasensory
- Shadow Ball
You don't even have to run HP Ice because of Tinted Lens <3. Extrasensory can be switched out for HP Grass depending on what your team needs.
Not entirely because of this set, I feel like Raikou is under-appreciated in AAA. As a result, I'd suggest moving Raikou to High B or Low A Rank. It's a really great mon that is not only a great lure, but is also a great wallbreaker.
Also add Tinted Lens because why not :^)
bring in ferro (Raikou) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Extrasensory
- Shadow Ball
You don't even have to run HP Ice because of Tinted Lens <3. Extrasensory can be switched out for HP Grass depending on what your team needs.
Not entirely because of this set, I feel like Raikou is under-appreciated in AAA. As a result, I'd suggest moving Raikou to High B or Low A Rank. It's a really great mon that is not only a great lure, but is also a great wallbreaker.
Also add Tinted Lens because why not :^)
Monte Cristo
Banned deucer.
Why run this when you can run thundurus who does grass lure better than any electric in the meta. Also Mega manectric can almost do the same depending on team match up. Thundurus also doesn't need to waste its ability slot to do this stuff
Overall I see very little reason to give Raikou such a high rank when it can't pressure or frame trap (I'll define this phrase if you need it, I know its rare in our community) nearly as well as Thundurus and only serves as a gimmicky lure.
The AAA metagame right now is all about pressure and Raikou and other "lures" don't really fill this roll as well.
Well, there are quite some stuff I want to say / am confused about, so the post may be long.
First, I just build a kinda different sun team than most of them. While some of the stuff may be a little unorthodox, so most people aren't that prepared, but I'm pretty sure they deserve a rank.
Roserade is the star of my team, and is in my opinion the best non-fire Sun sweeper in the tier right now. While its sheer power isn't as destructive as Heatran's, it has a very powerful SolarBeam and gets Weather Ball, which is really good coverage. Something else which differentiates it from Heatran is that it can easily run Life Orb. Heatran usually wants Eruption (or at least that's the set it's known for to) to sweep and wallbreak everything at the same time, but for this it needs Specs if it doesn't want to wear itself down. When it does run Fire Blast + Life Orb, it's weaker than Roserade besides Fire Blast STAB (which is admittedly extremely powerful), however missing is annoying. Of course, it also brings a different typing to the table. Sludge Bomb is also a nice move for bulky fairies.
Something else that makes it good is the ability to get past most any one counter, with Sleep Powder. I'm pretty sure you all know how good this move is, so I won't go out of my way explaining it, but it basically makes one Pokemon on the other team useless (when it hits .-.). Basically letting it cripple and possibly get past a counter.
The biggest downside for it is its weakness to Gale Wings, which you should really attempt to patch up if you're building with it. A few other priority moves as ExtremeSpeed (especially Refrigerate) work, but it also resists quite some (Mach Punch, Aqua Jet), while Sleep Powder can neuter Sucker Punch. Otherwise few can actually handle it well with Chlorophyll and a little residual damage. Of course, sun running out is terrible for it, but seven turns is more than enough for a sweep, and forces the opponent to predict really well.
Because of these points, I think it should be C+. It's quite powerful, and hard to stop if it gets going, but it needs quite some support and a free switch-in. (Saccing, Double Switching, Slow VoltTurn, and bulky Waters)
Delphox is an underrated Pokemon. While I won't say it's great, it works well on a sun team as a wallbreaker and is definitely better than Houndoom. With Choice Specs and Solar Power, its power is shocking, as Fire Blast boosted by sun, specs and STAB is really powerful. I'll start with some calcs to compare its power.
252 SpA Solar Power Mega Houndoom Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew in Sun: 427-504 (105.6 - 124.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Solar Power Delphox Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew in Sun: 553-652 (136.8 - 161.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Heatran Eruption (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew in Sun: 604-712 (149.5 - 176.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Solar Power Delphox Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew in Sun: 607-715 (150.2 - 176.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
As you can see, it's stronger than Mega-Houndoom, a Pokemon which is apparently in C-rank. I think Delphox pretty much outclassed Mega-Houndoom unless you want a standalone wallbreaker, which is bad anyway, but I'll explain that later.
First, on sun teams, Mega-Houndoom takes the Mega slot, which is more valuable than you may imagine since Mega's like Mega Diancie are great for Sun, and I imagine others being good too, like Mega Altaria. Also because of this Mega-Slot, it can't use an item, which actually causes it to be weaker than Specs Delphox. While its speed allows it to outspeed a bit more than Delphox, both are quite fast. Mega-Houndoom also has the disadvantage of starting at 90 base Speed, which is actually slower than Delphox and outslows many critical Pokemon. The competition of Dark vs. Psychic STAB is equal in my opinion, as the things they hit SE don't really matter, and it's just about hitting some stuff that you can't hit with your Fire-STAB. Both need Sun-support to shine as well. So if I want a Solar Power Wallbreaker, I'd choose Delphox, because it's more powerful. It also has Switcheroo to annoy stall.
Heatran is possible to be used, but gets worse quickly as it gets worn down.
So if you guys feel Mega-Houndoom's ranking was right, I want this at C, because it needs quite some support, but is really powerful on the right teams. It may be a niche option but can easily shine when used well.
Additionally Mega-Houndoom should go to D. There are many other wallbreakers in this metagame and Mega-Houndoom only gets one chance to wallbreak if it isn't on a sun team, since if it's forced out after it mega evolved, it can't get the sun back anymore and is pretty mediocre. It's also quite frail and hard to mega evolve. So it's generally better to use something else.
Diancie-Mega is underrated. It's Mega is not even on the viability rankings, even though it's great! I actually think it's one of the better megas in the tier. To start, like most mega's, it's a great abuser of Illusion. With its unique set of resistances and powerful attacks, you can easily fool Pokemon like Goodra and various birds in thinking they can easily stay in and KO you, when they do pitiful damage when you One- or Two-Hit-KO them with its base 160 offenses. Mega-evolving isn't even an issue, as while you're slow you can force a lot out, or just fool them in thinking tha tyou're something different, so you can easily get to your mega-form. It can also use Download to boost either offense as it can abuse both, but I haven't used that set.
Besides its powerful attacks (even mixed!), it gets two moves that help it in sweeping: Rock Polish and Calm Mind. Both are viable and various teams can abuse them. Rock Polish allows you to outspeed pretty much everything in the metagame, even though you outsped most things already, while Calm Mind allows you to boost on certain things that can't hurt you, or switch out so your Special Attacks and bulk get boosted. Rock Polish can easily sweep offensive teams when Bullet Punch and Aqua Jet users are removed, (and be careful around Gale Wings, while you resist it, they still do a lot, so make sure you don't get weakened too much) and wear certain things down. Against Stall, it's a pain as well since Calm Mind and Magic Guard make it so that it can stallbreak a lot of Pokemon. Illusion doesn't help either!
After considering its mixed and powerful attacking, is not even frail, boosting and the fact that it can check a lot of Pokemon I think this should be A- or A.
Virizion surprised me. I initially added it to my team as I needed a fast Fighting type, and I wasn't too happy with it, but it really did way better than I expected. I used Magic Bounce to set up on many stallier threats, as a combination of its bulk and Magic Bounce gave issues to a lot of Pokemon. It's true that it isn't that good against offense, but balance and stallier builds can truely have a problem with it. The combination of Swords Dance and Synthesis, in addition to its stats makes it so that it can set up moderately easy, and beat Pokemon as Goodra, Ferrothorn, Suicune, Vaporeon, non-SD Scizor, Tyranitar and more! While it indeed struggles against offense, since they'll often have Pokemon that are fasted and can KO it, or Pokemon that it can't KO and pressure it. Against stall you need a way of removing or weakening Skarmory and Doublade, since they're the most annoying things to it. It also has issues with a few Unaware users, but it can handle Suicune as long as you don't get burned turn one. Cresselia is mostly annoying. Otherwise it can handle most things. Luckily you have teammates! That's pretty much all I can say about it, but it is really surprising and can tank most special hits (even non-STAB SE ones) and most weaker physical hits. Considering this, I'd move it to C- or D, since I agree its fairly niche and needs to be on the right teams that both need its capabilities, typing and can support it well.
Skarmory should probably be moved down. It's not as good anymore and is easily pressured. It can sweep lategame yes, but it's not nearly as good anymore. If I wanted to check Gale Wings I wouldn't use its own Gale WIngs set either, and Honchkrow can just get past it.
Other things that confuse me but I didn't use, but want to see some discussion about:
Heracross in A.
Swampert in A-.
Finally, there seems to be rank inflation. There are tons of Pokemon in the higher A ranks and I'm sure some can be moved down. I'm not sure which, but maybe you guys do, so maybe discuss that! There are also way fewer Pokemon in B and even less in C which further exemplifies my point. While most Pokemon in A / A+ are good, it does seem like some could be A just fine, as we need to draw the limit somewhere, as currently it seems like the "I think this Pokemon can be good and I like it on my team, so it hsould probably be a high rank".
That's it, for now~
First, I just build a kinda different sun team than most of them. While some of the stuff may be a little unorthodox, so most people aren't that prepared, but I'm pretty sure they deserve a rank.
Roserade is the star of my team, and is in my opinion the best non-fire Sun sweeper in the tier right now. While its sheer power isn't as destructive as Heatran's, it has a very powerful SolarBeam and gets Weather Ball, which is really good coverage. Something else which differentiates it from Heatran is that it can easily run Life Orb. Heatran usually wants Eruption (or at least that's the set it's known for to) to sweep and wallbreak everything at the same time, but for this it needs Specs if it doesn't want to wear itself down. When it does run Fire Blast + Life Orb, it's weaker than Roserade besides Fire Blast STAB (which is admittedly extremely powerful), however missing is annoying. Of course, it also brings a different typing to the table. Sludge Bomb is also a nice move for bulky fairies.
Something else that makes it good is the ability to get past most any one counter, with Sleep Powder. I'm pretty sure you all know how good this move is, so I won't go out of my way explaining it, but it basically makes one Pokemon on the other team useless (when it hits .-.). Basically letting it cripple and possibly get past a counter.
The biggest downside for it is its weakness to Gale Wings, which you should really attempt to patch up if you're building with it. A few other priority moves as ExtremeSpeed (especially Refrigerate) work, but it also resists quite some (Mach Punch, Aqua Jet), while Sleep Powder can neuter Sucker Punch. Otherwise few can actually handle it well with Chlorophyll and a little residual damage. Of course, sun running out is terrible for it, but seven turns is more than enough for a sweep, and forces the opponent to predict really well.
Because of these points, I think it should be C+. It's quite powerful, and hard to stop if it gets going, but it needs quite some support and a free switch-in. (Saccing, Double Switching, Slow VoltTurn, and bulky Waters)
Delphox is an underrated Pokemon. While I won't say it's great, it works well on a sun team as a wallbreaker and is definitely better than Houndoom. With Choice Specs and Solar Power, its power is shocking, as Fire Blast boosted by sun, specs and STAB is really powerful. I'll start with some calcs to compare its power.
252 SpA Solar Power Mega Houndoom Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew in Sun: 427-504 (105.6 - 124.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Solar Power Delphox Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew in Sun: 553-652 (136.8 - 161.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Heatran Eruption (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew in Sun: 604-712 (149.5 - 176.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Solar Power Delphox Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew in Sun: 607-715 (150.2 - 176.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
As you can see, it's stronger than Mega-Houndoom, a Pokemon which is apparently in C-rank. I think Delphox pretty much outclassed Mega-Houndoom unless you want a standalone wallbreaker, which is bad anyway, but I'll explain that later.
First, on sun teams, Mega-Houndoom takes the Mega slot, which is more valuable than you may imagine since Mega's like Mega Diancie are great for Sun, and I imagine others being good too, like Mega Altaria. Also because of this Mega-Slot, it can't use an item, which actually causes it to be weaker than Specs Delphox. While its speed allows it to outspeed a bit more than Delphox, both are quite fast. Mega-Houndoom also has the disadvantage of starting at 90 base Speed, which is actually slower than Delphox and outslows many critical Pokemon. The competition of Dark vs. Psychic STAB is equal in my opinion, as the things they hit SE don't really matter, and it's just about hitting some stuff that you can't hit with your Fire-STAB. Both need Sun-support to shine as well. So if I want a Solar Power Wallbreaker, I'd choose Delphox, because it's more powerful. It also has Switcheroo to annoy stall.
Heatran is possible to be used, but gets worse quickly as it gets worn down.
So if you guys feel Mega-Houndoom's ranking was right, I want this at C, because it needs quite some support, but is really powerful on the right teams. It may be a niche option but can easily shine when used well.
Additionally Mega-Houndoom should go to D. There are many other wallbreakers in this metagame and Mega-Houndoom only gets one chance to wallbreak if it isn't on a sun team, since if it's forced out after it mega evolved, it can't get the sun back anymore and is pretty mediocre. It's also quite frail and hard to mega evolve. So it's generally better to use something else.
Diancie-Mega is underrated. It's Mega is not even on the viability rankings, even though it's great! I actually think it's one of the better megas in the tier. To start, like most mega's, it's a great abuser of Illusion. With its unique set of resistances and powerful attacks, you can easily fool Pokemon like Goodra and various birds in thinking they can easily stay in and KO you, when they do pitiful damage when you One- or Two-Hit-KO them with its base 160 offenses. Mega-evolving isn't even an issue, as while you're slow you can force a lot out, or just fool them in thinking tha tyou're something different, so you can easily get to your mega-form. It can also use Download to boost either offense as it can abuse both, but I haven't used that set.
Besides its powerful attacks (even mixed!), it gets two moves that help it in sweeping: Rock Polish and Calm Mind. Both are viable and various teams can abuse them. Rock Polish allows you to outspeed pretty much everything in the metagame, even though you outsped most things already, while Calm Mind allows you to boost on certain things that can't hurt you, or switch out so your Special Attacks and bulk get boosted. Rock Polish can easily sweep offensive teams when Bullet Punch and Aqua Jet users are removed, (and be careful around Gale Wings, while you resist it, they still do a lot, so make sure you don't get weakened too much) and wear certain things down. Against Stall, it's a pain as well since Calm Mind and Magic Guard make it so that it can stallbreak a lot of Pokemon. Illusion doesn't help either!
After considering its mixed and powerful attacking, is not even frail, boosting and the fact that it can check a lot of Pokemon I think this should be A- or A.
Virizion surprised me. I initially added it to my team as I needed a fast Fighting type, and I wasn't too happy with it, but it really did way better than I expected. I used Magic Bounce to set up on many stallier threats, as a combination of its bulk and Magic Bounce gave issues to a lot of Pokemon. It's true that it isn't that good against offense, but balance and stallier builds can truely have a problem with it. The combination of Swords Dance and Synthesis, in addition to its stats makes it so that it can set up moderately easy, and beat Pokemon as Goodra, Ferrothorn, Suicune, Vaporeon, non-SD Scizor, Tyranitar and more! While it indeed struggles against offense, since they'll often have Pokemon that are fasted and can KO it, or Pokemon that it can't KO and pressure it. Against stall you need a way of removing or weakening Skarmory and Doublade, since they're the most annoying things to it. It also has issues with a few Unaware users, but it can handle Suicune as long as you don't get burned turn one. Cresselia is mostly annoying. Otherwise it can handle most things. Luckily you have teammates! That's pretty much all I can say about it, but it is really surprising and can tank most special hits (even non-STAB SE ones) and most weaker physical hits. Considering this, I'd move it to C- or D, since I agree its fairly niche and needs to be on the right teams that both need its capabilities, typing and can support it well.
Skarmory should probably be moved down. It's not as good anymore and is easily pressured. It can sweep lategame yes, but it's not nearly as good anymore. If I wanted to check Gale Wings I wouldn't use its own Gale WIngs set either, and Honchkrow can just get past it.
Other things that confuse me but I didn't use, but want to see some discussion about:
Heracross in A.
Swampert in A-.
Finally, there seems to be rank inflation. There are tons of Pokemon in the higher A ranks and I'm sure some can be moved down. I'm not sure which, but maybe you guys do, so maybe discuss that! There are also way fewer Pokemon in B and even less in C which further exemplifies my point. While most Pokemon in A / A+ are good, it does seem like some could be A just fine, as we need to draw the limit somewhere, as currently it seems like the "I think this Pokemon can be good and I like it on my team, so it hsould probably be a high rank".
That's it, for now~
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So I noticed that there aren't very many megas here, so I'll just make some prelim noms that can be discussed later:
Mega Metagross to A+ Rank. Abilities: Defiant, Flash Fire
Mega Charizard X to B Rank. Abilities: Magic Guard, Illusion, Download, Magnet Pull, Intimidate, Magic Bounce -> Tough Claws
Mega Venusaur to Low B Rank. Abilities: Flash Fire, Intimidate -> Thick Fat
Mega Charizard Y to C Rank. Abilities: Magic Guard, Download, Competitive, Illusion -> Drought
Mega Tyranitar to High B Rank. Abilities: Magic Bounce, Intimidate, Prankster, Illusion, Defiant, Water Absorb -> Sand Stream
Mega Slowbro to High B Rank. Abilities: Volt Absorb, Intimidate, Unaware, Magic Bounce -> Shell Armor
Mega Sharpedo to Mid C Rank. Abilities: Speed Boost -> Strong Jaw
Mega Scizor to Mid B Rank. Abilities: Flash Fire, Multiscale -> Technician
Mega Gardevoir to High C Rank. Abilities: Download, Illusion, Competitive, No guard -> Pixilate
Mega Blastoise to Mid B rank. Abilities: Magnet Pull, Lightning Rod, Drizzle -> Mega Launcher
Mega Ampharos to High B rank. Abilities: Magnet Pull, Competitive -> Mold Breaker
Mega Altaria to High B Rank. Abilities: Magic Bounce, Multiscale, Illusion, Intimidate -> Pixilate
Mega Aerodactyl to Mid C Rank. Abilities: Defiant, Illusion -> Tough Claws
Mega Abomasnow to D Rank. Abilities: Flash Fire -> Snow Warning
Mega Heracross to High C Rank. Abilities: Flash Fire, Magic Bounce, Illusion -> Skill Link
These are the ones that I've used. Not listed: Absol, Aggron, Alakazam, Audino, Banette, Beedrill, Camerupt, Glalie, Lati@s, Lopunny, Pidgeot, Sableye, Sceptile, Steelix, Gallade, Medicham
Oh yeah, also agreeing with Snaquaza's noms
Heracross is A because of its nearly unwallable tough claws set; Banded Close Combat OHKOs some of the bulkiest of resists, and megahorn/knock off/stone edge let it 2HKO almost the entire metagame.
Swampert is there because its swift swim set is an excellent late game cleaner. It can also run a great poison heal set with curse, and even a bulletproof or vestgen set if it wants to.
I don't think the mons in A should really move down. If we ranked every viable pokemon, the rankings would balance out, but for now, the majority of the mons in A deserve A
Mega Metagross to A+ Rank. Abilities: Defiant, Flash Fire
Mega Charizard X to B Rank. Abilities: Magic Guard, Illusion, Download, Magnet Pull, Intimidate, Magic Bounce -> Tough Claws
Mega Venusaur to Low B Rank. Abilities: Flash Fire, Intimidate -> Thick Fat
Mega Charizard Y to C Rank. Abilities: Magic Guard, Download, Competitive, Illusion -> Drought
Mega Tyranitar to High B Rank. Abilities: Magic Bounce, Intimidate, Prankster, Illusion, Defiant, Water Absorb -> Sand Stream
Mega Slowbro to High B Rank. Abilities: Volt Absorb, Intimidate, Unaware, Magic Bounce -> Shell Armor
Mega Sharpedo to Mid C Rank. Abilities: Speed Boost -> Strong Jaw
Mega Scizor to Mid B Rank. Abilities: Flash Fire, Multiscale -> Technician
Mega Gardevoir to High C Rank. Abilities: Download, Illusion, Competitive, No guard -> Pixilate
Mega Blastoise to Mid B rank. Abilities: Magnet Pull, Lightning Rod, Drizzle -> Mega Launcher
Mega Ampharos to High B rank. Abilities: Magnet Pull, Competitive -> Mold Breaker
Mega Altaria to High B Rank. Abilities: Magic Bounce, Multiscale, Illusion, Intimidate -> Pixilate
Mega Aerodactyl to Mid C Rank. Abilities: Defiant, Illusion -> Tough Claws
Mega Abomasnow to D Rank. Abilities: Flash Fire -> Snow Warning
Mega Heracross to High C Rank. Abilities: Flash Fire, Magic Bounce, Illusion -> Skill Link
These are the ones that I've used. Not listed: Absol, Aggron, Alakazam, Audino, Banette, Beedrill, Camerupt, Glalie, Lati@s, Lopunny, Pidgeot, Sableye, Sceptile, Steelix, Gallade, Medicham
Oh yeah, also agreeing with Snaquaza's noms
Heracross is A because of its nearly unwallable tough claws set; Banded Close Combat OHKOs some of the bulkiest of resists, and megahorn/knock off/stone edge let it 2HKO almost the entire metagame.
Swampert is there because its swift swim set is an excellent late game cleaner. It can also run a great poison heal set with curse, and even a bulletproof or vestgen set if it wants to.
I don't think the mons in A should really move down. If we ranked every viable pokemon, the rankings would balance out, but for now, the majority of the mons in A deserve A
I realized what their niches were, and I won't argue about Heracross per se, since I've never fought it nor used it. (Well fought it once, but OHKO'd). It seems decent, but heavily prediction reliant, and most Flying types can take it pretty easily. In addition to it being pretty bad against offense. As I said this is mainly speculation, but it seems a bit strange that this is so high while I think Haxorus can do much of this as well, but is in B+.
Swampert-Mega is something I've had more experience in playing against. I feel it's lost some effectiveness (or has never been that great) since it gets only one chance at sweeping, and isn't that strong, so it needs most things quite weakened to be able to get past them, mainly Grass-types, but certain other things can be annoying as well. Other weathers just ruin it and it doesn't benefit from Swift Swim so you can take advantage of that with offensive teams, while stall teams usually have a switch in. Afterwards I feel like you can usually handle it with priority or a somewhat bulkier Pokemon. Yes, it can sweep end-game if you weakened the opponent well and found a good opportunity to Mega-Evolve, but it still needs certain requirements, in addition to its one chance sweep, so I think it may be better at B+.
I feel like Magnet Pull should be added to options for Blaziken, as it is imo one of the best steel trappers between its powerful STABs and Earthquake coverage. (Or Knock Off and Will-O-Wisp to beat physically defensive Flash Fire Doublade)
It kind of has to compete with Infernape for this though, and I doubt the extra Attack make much of a difference. Also, Doublade can't be trapped since it's a Ghost.
On the other hand, Reckless and Magic Guard are great wallbreaking sets for Blaziken that could be added. Reckless High Jump Kick, Brave Bird and Flare Blitz are really strong, with Jolly LO HJK 2HKOing the likes of Suicune. Magic Guard is great for not taking recoil from the above moves as well as being immune to poison, making it great against stallier teams.
blaziken will often fail to trap skarmory as most of the time it either runs flash fire or gale wing. In both cases brave bird will ohko it.
Eevee General lock this thread now that the new one is up?
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