Starmie (revamp) [QC 2/3]

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Freeroamer

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Overview
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Starmie has several key assets that allow it to effectively function as a viable support pokemon in the OU tier, on both offensive and defensive teams. Access to Rapid Spin, a great move with limited distribution, coupled with it's solid defensive typing and reliable recovery allows it to reliably remove hazards against many teams due to it's ability to force opposing pokemon to switch out against it. It is further helped in this role by it's excellent base 115 Speed, which outpaces much of the unboosted metagame, and most crucially beats the packed base 110 and 108 speed tiers. It's wide offensive and defensive movepool means it can be catered to it's teams needs, depending on what a specific team needs from it. It's abilities further help this, as Natural Cure is a godsend on defensive sets, reducing it's vulnerability to paralysis or residual status from status, while Analytic gives it the power to truly threaten some of it's switchins. However there are some drawbacks to using Starmie, chief of which is that while it's typing is strong from a defensive standpoint, it's actual bulk is little better than average, and as Starmie needs Speed investment to be as effective as possible it can struggle to take repeated punishment from common offensive pokemon, particularly if it is attempting to get a Rapid Spin off. This is further accentuated by it's vulnerability to all hazards, which becomes particularly prominent when Starmie will most likely be the dedicated remover of said hazards for it's team. From an offensive standpoint, while Starmie has great coverage and can hit much of the tier for super-effective damage, base 100 Special Attack pales in comparison to much of the offensive tier, and as such Starmie can struggle to adequately threaten bulky Pokemon it can't hit super effectively with a STAB move, meaning they can get free turns. A flaw to Starmie's otherwise strong typing is a Dark weakness, which means that Starmie is liable to be Pursuit trapped, removing it from play and preventing it from doing it's job. This can somewhat be remedied by Reflect Type, but will need strong prediction and gives up a moveslot, reducing Starmie's available options.

Defensive
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name: Defensive
move 1: Scald
move 2: Rapid Spin
move 3: Recover
move 4: Reflect Type / Psyshock
ability: Natural Cure
item: Leftovers
evs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe
nature: Timid

Moves
========

Scald is an extremely easy to spam STAB, threatening anything that wants to switch into Starmie with the chance of a burn, allowing it to wear down it's bulkier switchins or cripple physical attackers entirely. Rapid Spin is what gives Starmie it's niche as a support pokemon, allowing it to remove hazards while preserving your own which can be extremely useful for balanced teams that utilise multiple hazards in order to wear the opponent down. Recover gives this set sustainability, potentially allowing it to outlast the opposing teams hazard setters and remove their hazards permanently. It also allows it to take on threats such as Keldeo and Mega Metagross multiple times, fulfilling an important defensive role for it's team. The last slot is fairly team dependent, in that it is usually decided by what role Starmie needs to fulfil for it's team. Reflect Type is the primary option as it allows Starmie to be more reliable as a spinner, allowing it to evade Pursuit attempts from the likes of Bisharp and Scizor and potentially burn them with Scald. It has utility in allowing Starmie to take on other pokemon it could not before, such as Magnezone and Mega Charizard Y, by copying their typing and utilising it defensively to beat them in a one on one situation as it outspeeds all Magnezone and can stall out Charizard's sun. Psyshock allows Starmie to comfortably switch into and beat SubCM Keldeo, which it would lose to otherwise, meaning it can switch into most Keldeo comfortably, only fearing super-effective Hidden Power. It also has decent coverage alongside Scald, hitting Poison types such as Venusaur, Dragalge and Gengar. Hitting Gengar is particularly important, as it prevents it from attempting to spinblock you. Other coverage moves are definitely viable dependent on what your team is weak to, for example Ice Beam destroys defensive Garchomp which can be annoying for this set while Thunderbolt can be used as a decent Slowbro check. It also has the advantage of hitting Keldeo for decent damage still too so use what best suits your team.

Set Details
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The given EVs allow Starmie to outspeed everything up to base 115 Speed, including fast threats such as Serperior and Thundurus, as well as beating out the crowded 108 and 100 Speed tiers and tying with other Starmie and Raikou. It also crucially beats Choice Scarf Magnezone by one point allowing you to use Reflect Type and resist both of it's STABs and prevent it from gaining any real momentum with Volt Switch or KOing you. The HP EVs give Starmie some bulk on both the physical and special sides, while maintaining an odd number to reduce residual damage. The final 8 EVs are invested into Defense to make switching into Mega Metagross slightly easier. Leftovers is the only item choice as the passive recovery it gives aids Starmie tremendously in keeping it healthy. Timid is also necessary, as Starmie's high base Speed of 115 is one of the selling factors of using it, being able to outspeed threats such as Gengar and Keldeo which is only possible with a Timid nature. Natural Cure is chosen as the ability of choice as being able to heal stray toxic and paralysis on switching out is invaluable for helping Starmie do it's job and making sure it sticks around for as long as needed.

Usage Tips
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Starmie's first and foremost role is keeping your field clear of hazards, so it should be switched in as often as possible on hazard setters it doesn't fear such as defensive Heatran to clear hazards as they switch out. It is crucial for this set to remain healthy, as Starmie's bulk is not spectacular, and switching in on too many hazards will quickly put it in range of being KOed before it has done its job. It also allows it to continuously switch into the threats it takes on, the likes of Mega Metagross, Keldeo and hazard setters in general. Any opportunity to wear down opposing hazard setters should be used to maximum effect, as the burden on Starmie and it's team is greatly eased when hazards are removed and they cannot be put back up again.

Team Options
========

This set is suited for balanced and defensive teams that utilise hazards in helping to wear down the opponent and as such would prefer a Rapid Spin user to a Defog user in order to maintain their own hazards. An excellent example of this would be a Spikes stacking team, making Ferrothorn or Klefki strong partners. Fairy types love Starmie's ability to switch into Mega Metagross and Heatran, and as such the likes of Mega Gardevoir and Mega Diancie fit well. It goes without saying that pokemon that appreciate hazards gone also appreciate Starmie's presence, and as such can make good teammates. Specially Defensive Swords Dance Talonflame sets up on most Grass types, and can wear down opposing teams with Will-o-wisp, while Kyurem-B greatly appreciates hazards gone in increasing it's longevity and ability to fire off hits. Mega Sableye is also a great partner, as between it and Starmie, they form an excellent anti-hazard core while preserving your own thanks to Sableye's ability Magic Bounce. Defensive partners that can switch into the likes of Latios and Calm Mind Clefable are also strong partners to help Starmie out against it's common switchins. Heatran is a great option in particular as it can set up hazards of your own and Taunt these pokemon to stop them in their tracks. When running Starmie, particularly if running Psyshock over Reflect Type, checks to potential Pursuit trappers and Dark types in general are advised. Bulky Mega Scizor checks a great many of these while having decent synergy overall alongside Starmie.

Offensive Spinner
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name: Offensive Spinner
move 1: Rapid Spin / Recover
move 2: Hydro Pump
move 3: Psyshock / Thunderbolt
move 4: Ice Beam / Hidden Power Fire
ability: Analytic
item: Life Orb
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
nature: Timid

Moves
========

Rapid Spin allows you to remove your opponents hazards while preserving your own and takes full advantage of the many switches that this set forces. While Rapid Spin is a great selling point for using Starmie, if you already have a means of removing hazards on your team then Recover is a great choice for increasing Starmie's longevity and offsetting Life Orb recoil. Hydro Pump is powerful STAB, and combined with a potential Analytic boost, hits many switch ins hard, and can come as a surprise if they were expecting a defensive set. Psyshock is secondary STAB, and hits the opponent's Defense, allowing Starmie to circumvent special walls to some extent. It also allows it to check most variants of Keldeo, thanks to it ignoring Special Defense boosts on the Calm Mind set. Thunderbolt is also an option in this slot to hit common bulky Water types that like to switch into Starmie hard, such as Manaphy and Empoleon. Ice Beam allows you to hit Grass and Dragon types hard, giving great coverage alongside Hydro Pump. Hidden Power Fire hits Ferrothorn, a common Starmie switchin for 4x Super Effective damage and prevents it from resetting hazards that you've spun away. It also hits Scizor reliably if you don't need to risk Hydro Pump missing. While the slashes above signal a 3 attacks and a utility move set, 4 attacks Starmie is very viable if you simply want extra coverage to hit as many pokemon as possible hard. With this set, it becomes a very difficult pokemon to switch into for balance teams, albeit it either becomes less of a team support or loses some longevity.

Set Details
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  • Max Speed and Special Attack is the only way to go for an offensive set.
  • Life Orb gives Starmie a much appreciated power boost, as Starmie's base 100 Special Attack can often be underwhelming.
  • Timid is crucial, as without it you can't even outspeed Landorus-i and above, meaning you lose out on a ton of threats.
Usage Tips
========
  • More suited to offensive teams that can provide it with safe switchins via Volt Switch / U-turn or via double switches.
  • Still prioritises hazard removal if it has it, but if there are no hazards that need removing then clicking Hydro is generally safe.
  • This Starmie set is very hard to switch into for offensive teams in particular thanks to it's Speed and coverage, and as such should take every opportunity it gets to fire off attacks against these teams, as it can quickly rack up a lot of damage. Against more balanced teams, you should aim to predict potential switchins and hit them hard with the appropriate coverage move, wearing them down throughout the course of the battle.
Team Options
========
  • Still works best alongside pokemon that appreciate Stealth Rock gone, however they tend to be more offensive in general alongside this set. The likes of Volcarona and Kyurem-Black put huge offensive pressure on teams, and massively appreciate not losing large amounts of health to hazards when they come in.
  • With potentially no recovery and being susceptible to all hazards alongside LO recoil, this set appreciates safe switches via U-Turn or Volt Switch. Scizor in particular is a great partner for this, as it lures in a lot of pokemon that Starmie can threaten such as Heatran. Another potential option is Mega Manectric, who alongside this Starmie set can greatly threaten offensive teams thanks to it's Speed and coverage.
Other Options
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  • Signal Beam hits Celebi harder than any other move, but Ice Beam hits it hard anyway and Celebi isn't relevant enough just to drop coverage for.
  • Both Toxic and Thunder Wave could be considered for the defensive set, the former allowing you to put bulky switchins on a timer and the latter allowing you to cripple potential offensive threats. Forgoing Reflect Type or Psyshock is usually not worth it though.
  • Gravity is a potential option for the Life Orb set, setting it up on a potential switch and then abusing much more accurate Hydro Pumps can be devastating for offensive teams. Best used alongside threats with powerful Ground moves thanks to Gravity negating Ground immunities.
  • Starmie can utilise Choice sets alongside Trick in it's moveset, with Choice Specs it gains a great deal of power while with a Choice Scarf it becomes an extremely fast revenge killer, albeit very weak. Giving up utility moves in Rapid Spin and Recover can also be unappealing.
  • It can also utilise Trick alongside a status orb, usually Flame Orb due to the reluctance of Fire Types to switch in on Starmie. This allows it to cripple an opposing threat by removing it's item as well as inflicting them via a burn. As an added bonus, Natural Cure will remove the status should Starmie hold on to the orb one turn too long.
Checks & Counters
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  • Special Walls - Blissey, Chansey, Specially Defensive Jirachi, Mew, Sylveon.
  • Bulky Water types - Manaphy, Mega Gyarados.
  • Bulky Grass types - Specially Defensive Celebi, Ferrothorn.
  • Pursuit trappers - Scarf Tyranitar, Scizor, Bisharp.
  • Electric Types - Mega Manectric, Raikou, Rotom-W.
  • Faster offensive checks - Mega Sceptile, Tornadus-T, Choice Scarf Landorus-T with Knock Off, Choice Scarf Kyurem-B.
 
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Freeroamer

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OK ready for some feedback on this, discussed some stuff with AM and will remove Metagross mentions if and when needed.
 
In the Overview I would also mention in the cons section that it's weak to the volt-turn combo, defog has made rapid spin a little less useful, and it does face some competition from excadrill as a spinner (i think starmie has plenty to differentiate itself from excadrill but i know that some people feel the need to compare the two). I would also elaborate on why bulky fairy types are a counter to starmie (It's easy to see why special walls and grass types are problem but why fairy types? it's not like starmie is weak to them and they don't even resist it's main STAB moves). Also address that starmie with reflect type can prevent pursuit trapping in the Checks and counters. In OO i'd also put choice scarf in the same boat with choice specs as well as adding cosmic power and HP fighting. It's WIP i know but this is just my 2 cents.
 

boltsandbombers

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In the Overview I would also mention in the cons section that it's weak to the volt-turn combo, defog has made rapid spin a little less useful, and it does face some competition from excadrill as a spinner (i think starmie has plenty to differentiate itself from excadrill but i know that some people feel the need to compare the two). I would also elaborate on why bulky fairy types are a counter to starmie (It's easy to see why special walls and grass types are problem but why fairy types? it's not like starmie is weak to them and they don't even resist it's main STAB moves). Also address that starmie with reflect type can prevent pursuit trapping in the Checks and counters. In OO i'd also put choice scarf in the same boat with choice specs as well as adding cosmic power and HP fighting. It's WIP i know but this is just my 2 cents.
Please dont mention cosmic power on anything -.-
HP Fighting is pointless since bisharp is obliterated by LO analytic hydro pump.
Bulky Fairy types arent exactly counters since they arent switching in on analytic boosted attacks, they're moreso checks.

This looks pretty solid, might want to elaborate in team options why the pokemon are good teammates and fix spacing up a bit.
Also I'd consider moving HP fire to moves as opposed to oo, its not slash worthy but I think that oo is putting it a bit too low even thought its only for ferro / scizor.
 
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other than the unpleasant formatting of this, there are some pretty big issues you need to address. for the defensive spinner set, psyshock should be slashed after reflect type. it is more so for teams that really don't have another keldeo switch in and need it to effectively keep it in check. should also mention that it hits poison types that would otherwise force starmie out such as gengar, dragalge, venu, amoong, croak, and tenta and having decent neutral coverage. also, elaborate more on reflect type's utility. letting it stay on stuff that normally would force it out such as scarfzone, scizor, breloom, and zard y to some extent. something you can develop in usage tips as well. mention m-sableye as a good partner since they form a nice anti hazard core. as for the offensive spinner set, it should be categorized like this:

1:spin/recover
2:hpump
3:psyshock/tbolt
4:ice beam/hp fire

recover is an option over spin if your team already has a way to remove hazards or can afford not to run it for longevity. psyshock is a reliable secondary stab that is its best bet for good neutral coverage. tbolt has similar targets, but also lets it hit bulky waters more effectively. ice beam is better in general, being able to hit grass and dragon types for ohkos/2hkos. hp fire is also a viable option, being able to lure ferro and check scizor is an effective lure for another offensive threat. just beef up usage tips a bit and explain team options for both sets. in oo, mention toxic and twave as alternatives for the defensive spin set, gravity for offensive lo, and trick flame orb/choice item as well. get rid of hp fire too. do all this and consider it 1/3
 
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4 Attacks Starmie can also be pretty handy if you value the extra coverage over the recovery or hazard removal. Sorta plays like a baby Greninja. Not sure how you could implement it in the slashes, but running a 4th coverage move would be a decent thing to mention in Moves, in my humble opinion.
 
In the offensive set you should mention that psyshock hits mega venu and hits amoonguss harder than ice beam.
 

Freeroamer

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Sorry this has stayed still for a while, uni hand-ins and all that :x

First of all, this should be a lot easier on the eyes now haha.

In the Overview I would also mention in the cons section that it's weak to the volt-turn combo, defog has made rapid spin a little less useful, and it does face some competition from excadrill as a spinner (i think starmie has plenty to differentiate itself from excadrill but i know that some people feel the need to compare the two). I would also elaborate on why bulky fairy types are a counter to starmie (It's easy to see why special walls and grass types are problem but why fairy types? it's not like starmie is weak to them and they don't even resist it's main STAB moves). Also address that starmie with reflect type can prevent pursuit trapping in the Checks and counters. In OO i'd also put choice scarf in the same boat with choice specs as well as adding cosmic power and HP fighting. It's WIP i know but this is just my 2 cents.
Weakness to VoltTurn was mentioned, I grouped the Fairy types in with special walls in c&c. Neglected to add Cosmic Power and HP Fighting for reasons boltsandbombers mentioned.

Please dont mention cosmic power on anything -.-
HP Fighting is pointless since bisharp is obliterated by LO analytic hydro pump.
Bulky Fairy types arent exactly counters since they arent switching in on analytic boosted attacks, they're moreso checks.

This looks pretty solid, might want to elaborate in team options why the pokemon are good teammates and fix spacing up a bit.
Also I'd consider moving HP fire to moves as opposed to oo, its not slash worthy but I think that oo is putting it a bit too low even thought its only for ferro / scizor.
Have elaborated on team options a little, and yeah definitely right on HP Fire, it now gets a moves mention.

4 Attacks Starmie can also be pretty handy if you value the extra coverage over the recovery or hazard removal. Sorta plays like a baby Greninja. Not sure how you could implement it in the slashes, but running a 4th coverage move would be a decent thing to mention in Moves, in my humble opinion.
Made a point of mentioning this in moves.

other than the unpleasant formatting of this, there are some pretty big issues you need to address. for the defensive spinner set, psyshock should be slashed after reflect type. it is more so for teams that really don't have another keldeo switch in and need it to effectively keep it in check. should also mention that it hits poison types that would otherwise force starmie out such as gengar, dragalge, venu, amoong, croak, and tenta and having decent neutral coverage. also, elaborate more on reflect type's utility. letting it stay on stuff that normally would force it out such as scarfzone, scizor, breloom, and zard y to some extent. something you can develop in usage tips as well. mention m-sableye as a good partner since they form a nice anti hazard core. as for the offensive spinner set, it should be categorized like this:

1:spin/recover
2:hpump
3:psyshock/tbolt
4:ice beam/hp fire

recover is an option over spin if your team already has a way to remove hazards or can afford not to run it for longevity. psyshock is a reliable secondary stab that is its best bet for good neutral coverage. tbolt has similar targets, but also lets it hit bulky waters more effectively. ice beam is better in general, being able to hit grass and dragon types for ohkos/2hkos. hp fire is also a viable option, being able to lure ferro and check scizor is an effective lure for another offensive threat. just beef up usage tips a bit and explain team options for both sets. in oo, mention toxic and twave as alternatives for the defensive spin set, gravity for offensive lo, and trick flame orb/choice item as well. get rid of hp fire too. do all this and consider it 1/3
Thanks for the check, I think I've caught everything you said but if you could just confirm since there were a lot of edits before I put this as 1/3, that'd be great.
 

Tokyo Tom

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K AM thanks for the laziest check EVER >:l

Just want to say a few things before you write this up:

I'm quite iffy on the current bulky Starmie spread; I think you should use the BW spread in this case (248 HP / 32 Def / 4 SpA / 224 Spe) because bulky Starmie doesn't need max speed and would rather have defensive investment instead. The things you listed as reasons for max speed investment ("EVs allow Starmie to outspeed max Speed Thundurus as well as the crowded base 100-110 Speed tier, which contains threats such as Gengar and Keldeo") are all still outsped by 224 Speed Starmie, with the only things you're missing out on being Scolipede before a boost and like, Scarf Magnezone. 4 SpA in particular is important because it guarantees the OHKO on uninvested Gengar with Psyshock which is nice for such little investment, and the defense EVs allow Starmie to avoid the OHKO from Ferrothorn's Power Whip, allowing Starmie to outstall a burned Ferrothorn in a 1v1 situation. I know you have a mention of Keldeo, but you should also mention that Psyshock on the bulky set helps beat CM Keldeo in particular, which I think is pretty important.

Also, I'd mention Ice Beam as another option on bulky Starmie in Set Details or OO (you've got Toxic in OO so probably there, but it's up to you) to let Starmie get significantly bigger hits on stuff like Garchomp, Landorus-T and Thundurus, clean OHKOing Landorus-I, as well as hitting stuff like Latios decently hard.

Finally, I think you should mention Psychic in OO for the offensive set, as it hits various stuff harder than Psyshock. The main examples I can think of are 2HKOing Defensive Rotom-W (as opposed to Psyshock missing out on the 2HKO) and hitting Mega Venusaur significantly harder. It's also relevant if you're using HP Fire > Ice Beam, because it gets reliable and bigger hits on stuff like Bulky Garchomp, Mega Altaria, Landorus-T, etc.

Otherwise looks good! Sorry if this post came at a bad time, haha
the REAL 2/3
 

Freeroamer

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K AM thanks for the laziest check EVER >:l

Just want to say a few things before you write this up:

I'm quite iffy on the current bulky Starmie spread; I think you should use the BW spread in this case (248 HP / 32 Def / 4 SpA / 224 Spe) because bulky Starmie doesn't need max speed and would rather have defensive investment instead. The things you listed as reasons for max speed investment ("EVs allow Starmie to outspeed max Speed Thundurus as well as the crowded base 100-110 Speed tier, which contains threats such as Gengar and Keldeo") are all still outsped by 224 Speed Starmie, with the only things you're missing out on being Scolipede before a boost and like, Scarf Magnezone. 4 SpA in particular is important because it guarantees the OHKO on uninvested Gengar with Psyshock which is nice for such little investment, and the defense EVs allow Starmie to avoid the OHKO from Ferrothorn's Power Whip, allowing Starmie to outstall a burned Ferrothorn in a 1v1 situation. I know you have a mention of Keldeo, but you should also mention that Psyshock on the bulky set helps beat CM Keldeo in particular, which I think is pretty important.

Also, I'd mention Ice Beam as another option on bulky Starmie in Set Details or OO (you've got Toxic in OO so probably there, but it's up to you) to let Starmie get significantly bigger hits on stuff like Garchomp, Landorus-T and Thundurus, clean OHKOing Landorus-I, as well as hitting stuff like Latios decently hard.

Finally, I think you should mention Psychic in OO for the offensive set, as it hits various stuff harder than Psyshock. The main examples I can think of are 2HKOing Defensive Rotom-W (as opposed to Psyshock missing out on the 2HKO) and hitting Mega Venusaur significantly harder. It's also relevant if you're using HP Fire > Ice Beam, because it gets reliable and bigger hits on stuff like Bulky Garchomp, Mega Altaria, Landorus-T, etc.

Otherwise looks good! Sorry if this post came at a bad time, haha
the REAL 2/3
I agree on everything but the bit about the spread, I was testing alternative spreads on Starmie such as the one you've mentioned, but anything less than max Speed means you get outsped by Scarf Magnezone, which is fine if you don't have Reflect Type, but as it's the main slash and useful to prevent Magnezone from building up momentum against you, I'm not sure. It just depends on which you value more I guess, I'm definitely willing to take QC's opinion on this though, because I definitely believe that for sets without Reflect Type, running max Speed is definitely not mandatory.

I will get this written up soon, uni handins are kinda hitting me atm but after tomorrow i'm free for a little while so should be able to get it done then.

EDIT: nvm after reading all of the advantages to the other spread again, I'll just make that the main one, seems to be more beneficial in most matchups.
 

AM

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Reminder update along with a short comment.

I'd really like to see in OO a mention of an offensive set but with Rapid Spin + Recover. Hydro Pump, Psyshock, Recover, Rapid Spin is just one example I've been using it a lot lately in a similar fashion to Latios sets that run STAB, recovery, defog. Sometimes I'll swap Psyshock with Thunderbolt depending on the teams necessity to break down bulky waters + Keldeo at the same time if I have the targets of Psyshock covered. Depending on teams you can either use Natural Cure as a status absorber and buffer for Thunder Wave users such as Klefki and Thundurus or the basic Analytic trait used on most offensive Starmies so the set itself has a bit more luxury in terms of options. Works best on Balance and Bulky Offense primarily but really all the details here is to just clarify on where I'm coming from as to why I would like a mention in OO just stating an offensive variant with Recover can work but loses the added coverage something like Ice Beam or HP Fire could provide.
 
I dont see why you would slash rapid spin, since rapid spin is like the only reason you would run Starmie lol
Not entirely. 4 Attacks Starmie plays like a baby Greninja and is a perfectly legitimate set, as is 3 Attacks + Recover. Rapid Spin is a huge niche for Starmie, but it has plenty of other perks that enable non-Rapid Spin Starmie to find itself on certain teams that already have hazard removal covered. That said, I do agree that a set called "Offensive Spinner" shouldn't have Rapid Spin slashed with anything since then it would cease to be a spinner. I personally think it'd be a good idea to just make a separate All Out Attacker set, where you can include both 4 Attacks and 3 Attacks + Recover Starmie without confusing it with the current Offensive Spinner set.
 

Freeroamer

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Yeah sorry about this being left dead so long, however I'm finally kinda free and have some of today and all of tomorrow to work on this and other smogon stuff so it should be written up by tomorrow night.

Couldn't I just rename the set to "offensive" which still fits with the slashing but gives the set it's own identity compared to the defensive set rather than making a whole new set which in reality is going to have very similar slashing, team options etc. as the set above it? I'm happy to go with QC opinion on this though so tagging aim AM ben gay Tokyo Tom as they already looked over this.
 

DarkNostalgia

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You have 32 extra defense evs for the first set, should be looking like 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe.
 

DarkNostalgia

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0 Atk Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 248 HP / 32 Def Starmie: 270-320 (83.5 - 99%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

just run max max tbh
 

Freeroamer

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What's the status on this freeroamer?
I am literally writing it up right now, will be done in the next hour or two. I did have one question though, and it's related to what I said before above. If Reflect Type is the main slash, shouldn't the spread aim to outspeed Scarf Magnezone as this is something you can Reflect Type against and potentially find a chance to spin / fish for Scald burns? I have no issue with making the current spread the main one, but then maybe Psyshock should be the main slash and an alternative spread mention in Set Details for max Speed with Reflect Type.

EDIT: Just wrote set details, the whole spread is based on you having Psyshock and not Reflect Type, so either the spread or slash needs to change
 
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Super Mario Bro

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I really don't understand why the first set can't just have a spread of 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe with a Timid nature. Being able to outpace or tie opposing Serperior, Starmie, and Raikou is much more important than having immaterial bulk. Even if Starmie doesn't do a whole lot of damage to them with no investment in special attack, having the option of picking them off when they are at low health can be pretty crucial in specific scenarios.
 

AM

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I really don't understand why the first set can't just have a spread of 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe with a Timid nature. Being able to outpace or tie opposing Serperior, Starmie, and Raikou is much more important than having immaterial bulk. Even if Starmie doesn't do a whole lot of damage to them with no investment in special attack, having the option of picking them off when they are at low health can be pretty crucial in specific scenarios.
Do this FreeRoamer and write up set details and information according to this.
 
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