Hey guys I just watched the latest episode tonight and NO
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Game of Thrones [thronies rejoice! XD]
- Thread starter WayOfRhetoric
- Start date
The greatest fighter who ever lived and a group of the best infantry in the world, fully armed with spear and shield, killed in combat by a bunch of masked slaves with knives. Riiiight. The show really takes the piss sometimes.
If Stannis the Mannis of the House Baratheon, King of the Andals and the First Men, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms and Protector of the Realm, gets killed by Brienne of Fucking Tarth this season then I'm going to flip some tables.
I'm wondering what Dany's train of thought is when she's making these decisions in the last few episodes
"Alright, ruling with a policy of my personal morals trumping your ancient culture clearly isn't working and I'm basically only here to build up my army and supplies so I can conquer Westeros, and there are groups of people trying to take my army down in unfamiliar territory.... There's no way I can compromise!"
There's also the fact that I'm honestly finding it hard to believe that a band of the greatest soldiers in the land can't account for their glaring weakness of TURNING THEIR HEADS A LITTLE. Who the hell decided "Nah, they don't need anything protecting their neck, they'll be fine!" ?????
And oh god the feels from Stannis just reinforced everything. I needed a new favorite character after Season 4 ended anyways. :')
"Alright, ruling with a policy of my personal morals trumping your ancient culture clearly isn't working and I'm basically only here to build up my army and supplies so I can conquer Westeros, and there are groups of people trying to take my army down in unfamiliar territory.... There's no way I can compromise!"
There's also the fact that I'm honestly finding it hard to believe that a band of the greatest soldiers in the land can't account for their glaring weakness of TURNING THEIR HEADS A LITTLE. Who the hell decided "Nah, they don't need anything protecting their neck, they'll be fine!" ?????
And oh god the feels from Stannis just reinforced everything. I needed a new favorite character after Season 4 ended anyways. :')
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So... new episode released today (or yesterday, depending on your time zone).
I say, it was really predictable, though I was spoiled a little by the episode preview posted last week, and I did read the books after all. Barristan kicked the bucket, Ramsay being horrible as usual, Greyscale foreshadowing paying off, and Daenerys taking some action after losing her advisor. Oh, and Grey Worm + Missandei is a thing. Most of the plot lines for this episode were largely set up in the previous one, and neither of them diverged anything from what was expected. There plotlines that weren't spoiled by the books (Shenanigans in Dorne, likewise in King's Landing) weren't even followed up.
At least the next one will contain some surprises. There was little set-up for the immediately following events in this episode, so I think it'll be interesting to see what happens next week.
[/spoilers]
At least the next one will contain some surprises. There was little set-up for the immediately following events in this episode, so I think it'll be interesting to see what happens next week.
[/spoilers]
only thing i was surprised at was grey worm living, that was a pleasant surprise. the rest of the episode was kinda... dull? really hope the season picks it up in the second half (i know they will)
Bran's storyline won't be featured in Season 5 at all. I've been dealing with it by having entire mumbled conversations consisting only of "Hodor," but you do what works for you.
Am I the only one who thinks that Jon/Stannis were always two of the most boring characters with eh storylines (except with Yggrite involved) and now that they're together it's a 100% snooze fest??
This season, overall, has been REALLY dull imo. The only episode I liked was episode 4 (the one where Jamie/Bron got to Dorne, that was 4 right?). We need way more Arya, I'm interested in Cersei/High Sparrow/Anything in King's Landing, and even Brienne/Sansa stuff. Stannis is just borrrrrrring
This season, overall, has been REALLY dull imo. The only episode I liked was episode 4 (the one where Jamie/Bron got to Dorne, that was 4 right?). We need way more Arya, I'm interested in Cersei/High Sparrow/Anything in King's Landing, and even Brienne/Sansa stuff. Stannis is just borrrrrrring
Stannis is a great character and is honestly the only person I can cheer for. Arya is awesome but she's off doing her thing and every other character is doing some dumb shit right now. Danny was awesome for a while but she's so naive and it's annoying to watch. Everything involving Brienne is awful IMO including Sansa/Littlefinger.
That feel when that episode didn't end with anyone getting stabbed in the GODDAMN FACE
idk man that dress looked expensive as hell
okay like
was it really necessary to rape sansa
EDIT: on a separate topic, does anybody actually like the sand snakes
was it really necessary to rape sansa
EDIT: on a separate topic, does anybody actually like the sand snakes
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tyene sand / rosabell laurenti sellers is really hot so that's about all i like about them. i fell in love with her during the new cast announcement last year.
No
No
Yes ;)
The whole Dorne storyline is laughably bad so far. Jaime and Bronn just saunter into the Water Gardens covered in bloody clothes, march right up to Trystane Martell and smack him in the face at the same time that the Sand Snakes arrive. And then Jaime, who was getting his arse handed to him by Dornish Soldier #2 a couple of episodes ago now manages to fend off an apparently deadly female warrior without any problems. Come on.
The Tyrion/Jorah exchanges and Olenna/Cersei scenes saved that episode from being a complete train wreck, and Alfie Allen is absolutely killing it. Give the guy all the awards, all of them.
Idk though, this season has just felt really awkward and jarring. I'm trying really hard to enjoy it, but the decision to have Sansa raped just felt like a cheap shock point to end the episode on, it was unneeded and doesn't help her in any way, the girl has been through enough.
SAVE_US_STANNIS
I agree with everything Kinneas, especially the ending of the episode. The parallels between it and the Red Wedding scene were so groan-worthy: a Stark being assaulted by a Bolton, and then the episode culminates with an uncomfortably protracted shot of a distraught character's face. But as if Theon's plight is comparable to Catelyn's lol, and ending the episode with Theon's just trivialized what Sansa was going through...
Anyways my point is I just find the repeated assaults on Starks to be so numbing at this point, in the same way Theon's repeated torture was in Season 3. Surely (hopefully?) the showrunners are just setting the stage for Sansa's big play to take back Winterfell since Stannis is marching south. I think it'd be cool if it resulted in Stannis as King in the North because let's be honest, who is as cold as Stannis the Mannis?
Overall though I've been enjoying Season 5 until last night's episode. I really like the "newness" of the plotlines (three new main characters in Essos!) even if the season has been slow for GoT standard. Episode 6 was a bit of a dull step backwards, but to be fair there's usually a lull in the middle of every season of every show. As a non-book reader I unfortunately spoiled myself because I got overly curious (stay away from A Fire and Ice Wiki!!!!), so I'm guessing the last few episodes will be a bit more action-driven and shocking.
Fingers crossed that the inevitable Stannis vs. Bolton altercation is as cool as I anticipate it to be! I am also hoping Rickon joins the fun at some point because this season has had a distinct lack of direwolves :(
Anyways my point is I just find the repeated assaults on Starks to be so numbing at this point, in the same way Theon's repeated torture was in Season 3. Surely (hopefully?) the showrunners are just setting the stage for Sansa's big play to take back Winterfell since Stannis is marching south. I think it'd be cool if it resulted in Stannis as King in the North because let's be honest, who is as cold as Stannis the Mannis?
Overall though I've been enjoying Season 5 until last night's episode. I really like the "newness" of the plotlines (three new main characters in Essos!) even if the season has been slow for GoT standard. Episode 6 was a bit of a dull step backwards, but to be fair there's usually a lull in the middle of every season of every show. As a non-book reader I unfortunately spoiled myself because I got overly curious (stay away from A Fire and Ice Wiki!!!!), so I'm guessing the last few episodes will be a bit more action-driven and shocking.
Fingers crossed that the inevitable Stannis vs. Bolton altercation is as cool as I anticipate it to be! I am also hoping Rickon joins the fun at some point because this season has had a distinct lack of direwolves :(
HBO is no stranger to inserting bad rape scenes that weren't in the books, but I wonder what any of you would have done in this scenario. She got married to this awful man, it was going to happen. The bullet was dodged once with Tyrion, so that option certainly wasn't going to happen again. You could just skip to the next day and assume it happened, but it was always part of Song of Ice and Fire to show the ugly side of history. So what is the alternative here?
Some of the arguments I've heard are that Sansa goes from being a helpless girl getting smacked around by Joffrey before she gets hardened to the cruelties of Westeros to allowing the marriage and consummation to happen but without mentally suffering for it. We've seen her take on more assertive roles in her interactions with Theon and especially with Myranda (Ramsay's bitch) that indicate she can step into a larger role. If we follow the conclusion that she's suffering physically but not mentally the final scene takes on a greater significance with the emphasis on Theon who's in clear emotional torment. Odds are good that Sansa starts going to town on Winterfell in the last episodes of the season.
edit: o ya and there was nothing she could have done to stop the consummation short of stabbing Ramsay in the face which would have gotten herself killed. Sadly that's the world of Westeros (and medieval times) where women had little power and sexual interactions such as that were commonplace.
edit: o ya and there was nothing she could have done to stop the consummation short of stabbing Ramsay in the face which would have gotten herself killed. Sadly that's the world of Westeros (and medieval times) where women had little power and sexual interactions such as that were commonplace.
People get raped by their spouses now. This scene was way more in tune with the general feminist messages of ASoIaF than season 4's bullshit (gin alley dickface and Jaimie/Cersei).
I think a lot of gripes with the scene weren't exactly that Ramsey raped Sansa (because that's absolutely in-character for Ramsey), it's that this is the culmination of a storyline that D&D have been working on ever since they changed up Sansa's story from what it was in the books. One issue that people have brought up is that Sansa's rape is used almost purely for the shock factor, something that's even more terrible when you consider the heavyhanded parallels to the Red Wedding that the scene was attempting to draw. Another is the fear that Sansa's rape will be used more as motivation for Theon's redemption arc, or as motivation for Sansa to forgive and team up with Theon to escape (this is my personal issue with the "this rape was about Theon's misery" argument)
At this point in the books, Sansa is developing her own sense of agency and is well on her way to becoming a manipulator as great as Margaery or Littlefinger and is beginning to hold some semblence of power - a quote in ADWD mentions her being happy for the first time since her father was alive, or something like that. It's like the writers took a look at the story, said "Well, we don't have an actress for Jeyne Poole, so let's just mix her storyline in with Sansa and have her be the one that Ramsay marries instead. Is Sophie Turner 18 yet?"
I think some people are trying to argue that Sansa marrying Ramsay symbolizes a hardened woman making a difficult sacrifice for personal gain, but I don't see why the scene is necessary. Sansa's been through enough, we already sympathize with her, and we already know Ramsay is a psychopath.
I dunno, I'm just saying that Sansa had better be the one to kill Ramsay with her own hands or I'm going to be pissed.
SAVE_US_STANNIS
At this point in the books, Sansa is developing her own sense of agency and is well on her way to becoming a manipulator as great as Margaery or Littlefinger and is beginning to hold some semblence of power - a quote in ADWD mentions her being happy for the first time since her father was alive, or something like that. It's like the writers took a look at the story, said "Well, we don't have an actress for Jeyne Poole, so let's just mix her storyline in with Sansa and have her be the one that Ramsay marries instead. Is Sophie Turner 18 yet?"
I think some people are trying to argue that Sansa marrying Ramsay symbolizes a hardened woman making a difficult sacrifice for personal gain, but I don't see why the scene is necessary. Sansa's been through enough, we already sympathize with her, and we already know Ramsay is a psychopath.
I dunno, I'm just saying that Sansa had better be the one to kill Ramsay with her own hands or I'm going to be pissed.
SAVE_US_STANNIS
See, I never liked the "black dress maleficent turn" that Sansa went through in the show. You could argue that it happened in the books, but not really. Not to such a comical waifuish extent that occurred in the show. It's odd to say she'll be "as good a manipulator as Littlefinger" when he's still treating her like a pawn. Hell, moreso than in the books, I don't think that Littlefinger would ever have wed her to Ramsay for a second. But mostly I'm in the minority who thinks that giving a voice to the beleaguered and unempowered women of history never made for "the most boring" character.
After the scenes with Myranda and Theon, what I was most worried about going into that wedding night scene was that she'd do something cheeky and over the top. Like, she's getting fucked, and then she turns and winks to the camera and whispers "all according to keikaku". I feel that's what some people wanted but shit man, arranged marriages and marital rape exist and suck. The scene didn't dwell on it, showed no nudity, but it didn't feel at all like shock value.
Show watchers talk about shock value a lot, partly because HBO kind of plays it up and adds stupid shit, but the books had absolutely no shock value. They were much more interested in showing fantasy and minority perspectives through the lens of a believable historical fiction. If you're familiar with Martin's historical and literature influences (Romance of the Three Kingdoms is in my sig), then the book series feels very genuine and not at all like a story. Season 4 strayed far away from that mentality, but I think this scene fit well within it.
After the scenes with Myranda and Theon, what I was most worried about going into that wedding night scene was that she'd do something cheeky and over the top. Like, she's getting fucked, and then she turns and winks to the camera and whispers "all according to keikaku". I feel that's what some people wanted but shit man, arranged marriages and marital rape exist and suck. The scene didn't dwell on it, showed no nudity, but it didn't feel at all like shock value.
Show watchers talk about shock value a lot, partly because HBO kind of plays it up and adds stupid shit, but the books had absolutely no shock value. They were much more interested in showing fantasy and minority perspectives through the lens of a believable historical fiction. If you're familiar with Martin's historical and literature influences (Romance of the Three Kingdoms is in my sig), then the book series feels very genuine and not at all like a story. Season 4 strayed far away from that mentality, but I think this scene fit well within it.
Honestly I'm not sure how this could've been handled except in the way that it was. Like, were people expecting Sansa to come up with a 1,001 Arabian Nights plan in order to stop the wedding/consummation or for them to just have the scene where they get married then skip to the morning after? The former would just get her hurt worse and the later would be frankly out of place for the show. Sansa did what she needed to do to survive, and that's endure.
Also feminists saying that Sansa's character was devalued by getting raped only has the worst of all implications....
Also feminists saying that Sansa's character was devalued by getting raped only has the worst of all implications....
i think what annoys me the most about sansa's rape is the fact that while yes, jeyne poole's storyline would feature her rape as "arya stark" by ramsay, the showrunners have changed many parts of the plot and removed or killed characters that are still figures in the books. (jojen reed, barristan selmy, ARIANNE MARTELL) because of time constraints or because their characters didn't fit into the main plot the show wanted to cover, but somehow the show always manages to find time to have uncomfortably long nudity scenes or include sexual assault towards women.
like, the entire decision to include the ramsay/sansa plotline isn't necessary at all when you can have arianne's storyline of her trying to put myrcella on the iron throne, or many other storylines that take place in the books that they've left out. the littlefinger of the books would never make a decision like that for sansa, because a) he can't control her, b) he gains nothing, c) sansa is still married to tyrion which complicates things.
it just seems like they put sansa there because they felt they needed to make ramsay and the boltons more evil, as if the uncomfortable torture scenes in s3 or the red wedding weren't enough to get the point across, and because they needed to give theon motivation to break free from his reek torture.
i'm just kind of tired of this show consistently using sexual assault as a way to show evilness, and using it unnecessarily just to show how bad westeros is.
like, the entire decision to include the ramsay/sansa plotline isn't necessary at all when you can have arianne's storyline of her trying to put myrcella on the iron throne, or many other storylines that take place in the books that they've left out. the littlefinger of the books would never make a decision like that for sansa, because a) he can't control her, b) he gains nothing, c) sansa is still married to tyrion which complicates things.
it just seems like they put sansa there because they felt they needed to make ramsay and the boltons more evil, as if the uncomfortable torture scenes in s3 or the red wedding weren't enough to get the point across, and because they needed to give theon motivation to break free from his reek torture.
i'm just kind of tired of this show consistently using sexual assault as a way to show evilness, and using it unnecessarily just to show how bad westeros is.
But the real world is that bad, and in every country rape cases get thrown out against spouses because too many people don't realize this. If people see this and get uncomfortable and angry, maybe some of them will think twice before commenting on news articles with "what do you mean she was raped? weren't they married?".
sure, the real world is that bad and things like this do happen in real life. but was the intent of this scene to be like "maybe this will make people realize marital rape is a thing and it's wrong"? i highly doubt it. it was used for shock value and to further theon's storyline and villainize ramsay.
you can't excuse the use of sexual assault in the scene because it might make some people realize that rape takes many forms, because it wasn't a scene designed to educate. the intent of the writing matters.