CAP 20 CAP 20 - Part 10 - Moves Poll

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jas61292

jas61292

used substitute
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Hey everyone! Welcome to the new move poll, where we will decide on the last few competitive moves in our Pokemon's movepool. The moves to be voted on will be those deemed controversial in the moveset discussion.

The controversial moves we will be voting on are listed below. Spell the move and its qualifying include/do not include as you see it below when posting. Do not vote to both include and not include the same move, as that is nonsensical and will result in your vote being deleted.

Include Taunt
Do Not Include Taunt
Include Substitute
Do Not Include Substitute
Include Drill Peck
Do Not Include Drill Peck
Include Knock Off
Do Not Include Knock Off
​
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The following movesets have already been decided on, and the included moves required, as of the previous discussion. Take this into account when making your votes.
nyttyn said:
Dragon Dance + 3 Attacks
Name: Dragon Dance + 3 Attacks
Move 1: Dragon Dance
Move 2: Waterfall / Iron Head
Move 3: Iron Head / Icicle Crash / Ice Punch
Move 4: Wild Charge
Ability: Water Veil
EVs: 48 HP / 252 Atk / 208 Spe OR 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Nature: Jolly
Item: Life Orb
  • Because of CAP 20’s Steel/Water typing and Water Viel ability, it is able to set up Dragon Dances on a plethora of common mons, such as Clefable and Mega Sableye.
  • Dragon Dance allows it to outspeed the most common Choice Scarf user in the tier, Landorus-T.
  • Waterfall and Iron Head are your main forms of stab, allowing you to deal with bulky ground types as well as pesky fairies like Unaware Clefable who are 2HK0’d despite ignoring your boosts.
  • Ice coverage gives this CAP perfect neutral coverage alongside Wild Charge and hits Landorus-T harder than Waterfall does
  • Wild Charge rounds out CAP20's coverage, giving it neutral coverage on most of the metgame, barring a few exceptions such as Ferrothorn and Gastrodon. Wild Charge lets CAP20 OHKO Mega Charizard Y and Keldeo at +1, and heavily damages foes such as Mega Slowbro, Suicune, and Skarmory, allowing CAP20 to sweep past them if they have been sufficiently weakened. Keep in mind that Life Orb recoil piles up quickly alongside Wild Charge recoil.
  • Partners that can provide entry hazards are greatly appreciated.
  • Best used to clean up heavily weakened teams or teams full of frail members.
Calm Mind
Name: Calm Mind
Move 1: Calm Mind
Move 2: Scald
Move 3: Recover
Move 4: Flash Cannon / Refresh
Ability: Heatproof
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA OR 232 HP / 252 Def / 24 SpD
Nature: Bold
Item: Leftovers
  • Calm Mind is required
  • Scald is primary STAB move
  • Recover heals off damage taken
  • Last move is filler. Flash Cannon allows CAP to beat stuff such as Clefable and Altaria and Refresh allows it to heal off status, primarily paralysis and burn.
  • EVs and item are self explanatory, while the second EV spread ensures Timid Heatran does not 2HKO with Earth Power when the CAP is at +1
  • Scald allows CAP20 to still be useful before it sets up, by coming in and burning would-be switchins throughout the match.
  • Best used to demolish defensive teams when checks/counters are either heavily weakened or taken out of the picture.
Click to expand...

In addition, the following sets were discussed in the moveset discussion and will be included or not based on the results of this poll:
Stallbreaker CM
Name: Stallbreaker CM
Move 1: Calm Mind
Move 2: Scald
Move 3: Recover
Move 4: Substitute / Taunt
Ability: Heatproof
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA OR 232 HP / 252 Def / 24 SpD
Nature: Bold
Item: Leftovers
  • Calm Mind is required
  • Scald is primary STAB move
  • Recover heals off damage taken
  • Taunt allows CAP to beat stuff such as Clefable and Altaria. Substitute really allows you to have an easy safety net against a few things. Blocking Spore, an ill timed thunder wave from Thundurus etc (not that T-Wave is super destructive against CM but w.e, Leach Seed and so on. Its main purpose is to get CAP in on something it can force out, then set up a substitute and spam Scald. Stuff like Lati@s can still take Scalds, but burn chance is pretty gay to them, and any physical sweeper is going to hate going up against that Scald coinflip. Substitute is also cool against stuff that likes to Volt Switch since they break the sub ---> switch out and you still have your free turn. IDK, I think its pretty obvious how the set works and what it does so I dont think I need an essay here.
  • EVs and item are self explanatory, while the second EV spread ensures Timid Heatran does not 2HKO with Earth Power when the CAP is at +1
Stallbreaker DD
Name: Stallbreaker DD
Move 1: Dragon Dance
Move 2: Waterfall
Move 4: Iron Head / Icicle Crash / Recover
Move 4: Taunt / Substitute
Ability: Water Veil
EVs: 48 HP / 252 Atk / 208 Spe OR 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Nature: Jolly
Item: Life Orb
  • Dragon Dance enables the CAP to sweep.
  • Waterfall and Iron Head are accurate, reliable STABs with good neutral coverage, and the chance to flinch can be a lifesaver in a lot of situations.
  • Ice coverage gives this CAP strong neutral coverage and hits Landorus-T harder than Waterfall does
  • Recover allows the CAP to heal itself, which is important when stallbreaking
  • Taunt is great to disable non-Power Whip Ferrothorn, Slowbro, Suicune, Skarmory, Mandibuzz, Empoleon and to some extent Amoonguss and Quagsire, all usual checks to the DD set.
  • Alternatively, Substitute can be used to block Leech Seeds from Ferrothorn and give the CAP an easier time against Slowbro while working better against offensive teams than Taunt, but is generally inferior to Taunt since it doesn't help against Suicune , Skarmory or Mandibuzz.
  • Water Veil is obviously preferred, but Heatproof can be usable if the CAP runs Sub, since that enables is Sub not to be broken by Fire Blast from Slowbro.
  • Leftovers prevents the CAP from going down to repeated Scalds from bulky Waters as easily
Click to expand...
This poll will run for 24 hours (plus 17 minutes for time spent with the thread locked when it first opened).

--------------------

CAP20 so far:

Leadership Team:
nyttyn - Topic Leader
Ununhexium - Typing Leader
trc - Abilities Leader
HeaLnDeaL - Stats Leader
Snobalt - Movepool Leader​

Concept:
Name: Use the Boost to Get Through!

General Description: A sweeper with several boosting options that result in completely different checks and counters. While each set should be viable in its own right, the unpredictability of this Pokemon should make it much better than any one set alone.

Justification: In the early days of Pokemon X and Y, we experienced the first Pokemon that could (viably) boost and sweep from either the physical or special side: Mega Lucario. While it was clear his unpredictability could have a devastating effect (having your Chansey eat a Close Combat, Will-O-Wisping on the Nasty Plot, etc.) the true extent to which this could make a Pokemon better was masked by the fact that Lucario's sets were both already amazing. The purpose of this concept would therefore be to explore the impact of unpredictability in sweepers by creating a Pokemon that can run several boosting sets, none of which are dominant in their own right, but that when combined can result in an extremely dangerous threat.

Questions To Be Answered:
  • Is there a limit to how much unpredictability can make a Pokemon better? Can it make a decent Pokemon great? Or can it only make them usable?
  • How does being unpredictable with boosting options compare to other forms of unpredictability (such as uncommon coverage moves or trying to speed creep certain threats)? Is unpredictability in sweepers inherently more dangerous because of how easily they can win a game?
  • For a Pokemon that is already unpredictable, will we see the use of strange coverage moves (as many sweepers tend to run) or will it tend to stick to standard sets because it already has the element of surprise?
  • Which boosting moves are distinct enough to completely change a Pokemon's checks/counters? Are Swords Dance, Nasty Plot, and Agility the only ones that can fit this concept? Or is there a way to incorporate moves such as Dragon Dance without giving the Pokemon "the best of both worlds".
  • How effective will double boosting sets be on this Pokemon? Will the ability to "pick your counters" on a Pokemon already designed to bypass its counters be too good? Or can it be designed so that the loss of coverage will still leave it with several checks and counters on any set?
  • To what extent will teams have to prepare for this Pokemon? Will they have to pack several checks/counters like for M-Lucario? Or will they be able to just use a standard team so long as they can identify the set early?
Click to expand...
Type: Water / Steel
Abilities: Water Veil / Heatproof
Stats: 103 HP / 110 Atk / 90 Def / 95 SpA / 65 SpD / 97 Spe
 
Last edited:
Mova

Mova

Include Taunt
Include Substitute
Do Not Include Drill Peck
Include Knock Off
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Empress

Empress

Warning: may contain traces of nuts
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Include Taunt
Include Substitute
Include Drill Peck
Do Not Include Knock Off

After mulling it over, I've changed my mind about Taunt.
 
Last edited:
P3DS

P3DS

Include Taunt
Include Substitute
Do Not Include Drill Peck
Include Knock Off
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Mowtom

Mowtom

I'm truly still meta, enjoy this acronym!
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Include Taunt
Include Substitute
Include Drill Peck
Include Knock Off
 
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