Resource ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread V3 - Read Post 3451 Page 139

Status
Not open for further replies.

Clone

Free Gliscor
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
People also tend to forget that Zard X has a very viable wisp set that fits like a glove on many balance teams (should they choose to run it). It's great in that its able to take on a majority of the higher ranking mons due to its bulk, while it also lures in its usual checks and burns them with a wisp, crippling them for the match. And before you go on about how it lacks power, let me remind you that an uninvested Flare Blitz does a clean 60% to standard Clefable, and that Dragon Claw is still 2HKOing a lot of relevant offensive mons (that resist flare blitz, for example), which means that Zard X isn't setup bait like other defensive mons may be. DD alone is easily A+ worthy. That's literally just the tip of the iceberg – Zard X has a multitude of viable sets to choose from
 
Infernape used to be a renown mixed wallbreaker back when its 108 speed tier was more valuable. And while its speed arguably isn't as important now as before, a mixed NP set with Fire Blast, Close Combat and HP Ice/Grass Knot can be very valuable for certain teams that need to be able to tear through a plethora of balance cores consisting of Heatran, Ferrothorn, Slowbro, Gliscor, Celebi, Jirachi, Hippowdon, etc.

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro: 468-551 (118.7 - 139.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 112 SpD Hippowdon: 660-777 (157.1 - 185%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Fire Blast vs. 244 HP / 192+ SpD Gliscor: 367-433 (104.2 - 123%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Landorus-T: 476-562 (124.6 - 147.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Infernape Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 577-681 (89.8 - 106%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Celebi: 572-678 (141.5 - 167.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Sableye: 355-419 (116.7 - 137.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
What are the EVs of this mixed ? naive 252 atak 252 sp atak 4 sp def ?
 

soulgazer

I FEEL INFINITE
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
Hello OU player hollywood, I disagree with you.

Mega Charizard X is an excellent A+ Pokemon that can handle multiple threats in the metagame. Sure it does need entry hazard removal to be used at its fullest, but I honestly don't think that it is such a big issue when this beast can handle Mega Scizor, Mega Manectric, Ferrothorn, and more. Dragon / Fire coverage can easily break through teams, especially since Charizard's STABs can do a ton to ''resists'' when unboosted. As important OU user -Clone- stated, this dragon can also run an excellent defensive set that works extremely well on bulkier teams. Mega Charizard X's Dragon Dance set is still better in my opinion since it beats important Choice Scarf user: Landorus-T, which many Dragon Dance users wish they could outspeed. Swords Dance + Tailwind Zard X is also cute :3

Thank you for reading,

Soulgazer
 
People that say Charizard X should drop due to unfavourable metagame trends are only thinking about the Dragon Dance sets. Don't forget it has a defensive set with Will-o-Wisp too. While that set is nowhere near as common as it was in XY it's still a good set and lures and burns things that would normally switch-in to Dragon Dance sets and turn them into liabilities, think Azumarill, Hippowdon, Landorus-T, etc. Even Slowbro doesn't like a burn that much because it chips away at its health. The bulky set checks or counters a ridiculous amount of stuff, a lot of it that's dangerous to balanced teams too like Charizard Y, (Mega) Scizor, Thundurus, and Bisharp. It's also not a sitting duck in the sense that it can actually threaten the things it checks unlike most things as Fire Punch and Dragon Claw together still have that great coverage and power. In a way it's used like offensive Mega Venusaur who also acts as a tank, being able to check stuff and hitting hard. Let me just say uninvested Dragon Claw does a mere 3% less than fully invested Modest Mega Venusaur's Sludge Bomb, lol.

As for Dragon Dance sets, bludz and Albacore already said a lot about that but Iron Tail is a legit lure option for Mega Altaria if you're worried but lol it hits that and that only. At least EQ hits Heatran and Mega Diancie but whatever. Counters? Literally limited to Quagsire, Mega Slowbro and Mega Altaria (must be fully defensive, mind you, DDD has a chance to be 2HKO'd by +1 Flare Blitz and rocks). Hippowdon wins but loses a lot of health in the process and we're not talking about 40-50% we're about 65%+. Slowbro does nothing back unless it has Thunder Wave while +1 DClaw 2HKOs after rocks. Mega Slowbro, however, can do whatever it pleases in front of a +1 Zard X. And lol all this is with a Jolly nature not considering Adamant which is a legit option now that Scarf Landorus-T has plummeted in usage.

So yeah, keep Charizard X in A+
 
I actually explicitly said that DD sets were having difficulty, as per my experience. Do people have many examples exactly of the Wisp set thriving currently?


What are the EVs of this mixed ? naive 252 atak 252 sp atak 4 sp def ?
I would do max speed and split your Atk and SpA EVs enough to OHKO/2HKO certain threats for your team.
 
Last edited:

Clone

Free Gliscor
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
I actually explicitly said that DD sets were having difficulty, as per my experience. Do people have many examples exactly of the Wisp set thriving currently?




I would do max speed and split your Atk and SpA EVs enough to OHKO/2HKO certain threats for your team.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-232763374

OU room tour quarter finals from a few days back. Pretty good showcase of how wisp Zard lures in things like Lando t. Also showcases defensive Azu and how clutch encore really is.
 
Can't forget its good defensive typing either. Its resistances are admittedly easy to come by, but it can come in on HP Ices/Scalds/Moonblasts/Knock Offs that would scare off other dragons and Roost the damage away.
 

bludz

a waffle is like a pancake with a syrup trap
is a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Mamoswine B+ -> A-
I know this recently dropped but I didn't really agree with it. Ice is such a wonderful offensive type and one thing Mamoswine has over the other two main abusers (Kyurem-Black & Weavile) is being a ground type. It actually hard checks electric types like Raikou, Thundurus without Focus Blast and Mega Manectric (if Thick Fat). Now granted Weavile also checks Thundurus and Kyu-B can take those mons on as well but they aren't as reliable checks, they can't stop Volt Switching, plus they are both weak to Stealth Rocks. I think Mamo is still incredibly effective and some of its main counters such as Ferrothorn & Skarmory can be hit with a Knock Off allowing a Magnezone to come in and trap them later. The Life Orb set is quite difficult to wall and when you add in the ability to check electric types (which are difficult to check on offensive teams generally, unless you want to run AV Raikou and just take lots of residual damage from hazards + Volt Switches) it's actually a pretty useful mon that I don't think actually got worse really.

Speaking of Ice types...

Kyurem-Black A- -> A
I think this thing should move up also. Alright so granted it's weak to Stealth Rocks and a few types of common priority but it's just so damn effective in this metagame. Thing completely obliterates balance cores with options such as Iron Head and HP [Fire] to destroy common switch-ins like Clefable and Ferrothorn (which btw both get 2HKO'd by Ice Beam on the switch if you can secure a little prior damage as well) with the choice of Roost for longevity. It's not dead weight against offense either as it has very good bulk and can survive most neutral hits quite easily while having literally no switch-ins on offense besides Scizor. Scarf sets aren't the greatest but it has a nice enough speed tier and movepool to be effective as well as just spamming Outrage after all the resists are gone. Not as lethal as Manaphy but it has a similar impact and doesn't need to set up to be a massive threat. Also yeah if you just take a look at the mons in A and those in A- it really seems to me that Kyu-B fits better with stuff like Gliscor & Excadrill than Celebi & Mega Aerodactyl
 

bludz

a waffle is like a pancake with a syrup trap
is a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
vmm I'll give you some quick bullets

Volcarona doesn't have a whole lot of counters at +1 thanks to the ability to run 2/3 of HP Ground, Giga Drain and Bug Buzz leaving basically Talonflame as the lone reliable counter which despite being popular can't really switch into a +1 Fire Blast after Rocks very well. I guess you have Mega Altaria as well but it's taking a lot from +1 attacks.

Weavile terrorizes offense with its great speed tier and awesome STAB combo. Its common checks such as Keldeo & Azumarill just don't stop the fact that it completely destroys most hazard removers like Starmie & Latis while also dumping on a lot of fast mons in general such as Torn-T, Alakazam and any kind of dual genie core. Since offense has gotten better lately, Weavile is thriving

Clefable is just insanely splashable and versatile. It can run a multitude of different sets with 2 fantastic abilities to choose from and a great defensive typing. Combine that with its insane movepool which has been underutilized until recently - think Knock Off, Thunder Wave, Ice Beam, Focus Blast, Encore - and its just an amazingly versatile pokemon that is a glue on many teams. Unaware Clef is one of the best answers to Manaphy (rising in popularity!) on balance teams.
 
vmm I'll give you some quick bullets

Volcarona doesn't have a whole lot of counters at +1 thanks to the ability to run 2/3 of HP Ground, Giga Drain and Bug Buzz leaving basically Talonflame as the lone reliable counter which despite being popular can't really switch into a +1 Fire Blast after Rocks very well. I guess you have Mega Altaria as well but it's taking a lot from +1 attacks.

Weavile terrorizes offense with its great speed tier and awesome STAB combo. Its common checks such as Keldeo & Azumarill just don't stop the fact that it completely destroys most hazard removers like Starmie & Latis while also dumping on a lot of fast mons in general such as Torn-T, Alakazam and any kind of dual genie core. Since offense has gotten better lately, Weavile is thriving

Clefable is just insanely splashable and versatile. It can run a multitude of different sets with 2 fantastic abilities to choose from and a great defensive typing. Combine that with its insane movepool which has been underutilized until recently - think Knock Off, Thunder Wave, Ice Beam, Focus Blast, Encore - and its just an amazingly versatile pokemon that is a glue on many teams. Unaware Clef is one of the best answers to Manaphy (rising in popularity!) on balance teams.
You have very good points, but my question is why have they risen, I mean, all the things you said, excluding Clefable's Knock Off were already in XY,
and these 'mons have raised their ranks just recently, if it was a little after ORAS release I would get it.

Also, Clefable is bulky and versatille but it's offensive power is pretty lame, compared to such heavy-hitters that are in S Rank,
it's Def is kinda low so it needs a quite some EVs to have a decent Def, if we look at it's stats we'll see there is nothing really fantastic,it's Speed is bad, although that's the least of it's problems.
It's overall stats are just decent, it doesn't have a single stat that is base 100, so far I don't think Clefable is really that good to be in S Rank
 
You have very good points, but my question is why have they risen, I mean, all the things you said, excluding Clefable's Knock Off were already in XY,
and these 'mons have raised their ranks just recently, if it was a little after ORAS release I would get it.

Also, Clefable is bulky and versatille but it's offensive power is pretty lame, compared to such heavy-hitters that are in S Rank,
it's Def is kinda low so it needs a quite some EVs to have a decent Def, if we look at it's stats we'll see there is nothing really fantastic,it's Speed is bad, although that's the least of it's problems.
It's overall stats are just decent, it doesn't have a single stat that is base 100, so far I don't think Clefable is really that good to be in S Rank
You've also got to take into account that XY OU is a very different metagame to ORAS OU and the placements here reflect the current state of the metagame, as opposed to how good they are on paper, if I'm not mistaken. So while all of that was indeed in XY, the meta's changed considerably since then. I won't bother explaining Clefable as Bludz covered that in the post above me, but I'll try and shed some light on Volcarona and Weavile (and if I'm wrong, someone please correct me, I'm new at this in case you didn't guess)

In XY, Volcarona was at either C+ or B- iirc. The trends that accounted for this include:
Talonflame - generally regarded as one of the best mon in OU, not only was it a hard stop to Volcarona but it would also have been silly to use both one the same team, due to their shared common weaknesses (not least Stealth Rock) - you may as well just have used Talonflame on it's own and it was on pretty much every team, hindering Volcarona's usability substantially.
Mega Pinsir - was also on every team and could nuke Volcarona with Aerialate Quick Attack, only requiring a little prior damage at +0. Or if Volcarona hadn't already boosted it's Speed, Return would nuke it as well.
Basically I could have summed up the two points above as Birdspam generally, since it was a very effective playstyle in XY and Volcarona really didn't like it.
There was also:
Stealth Rock - Volcarona has a huge weakness to it (bear with me, I'm about to explain the flipside to all this in ORAS)
Mega Charizard X to an extent: Hidden Power Ground could only 2HKO this beast at +0, whereas Zard X could OHKO with Flare Blitz at +0.

Fast forward to ORAS, and 2/4 of these problems are pretty much negligible (Megas Pinsir and Zard X are rare). In addition, the rise of bulky Psychics such as Reuniclus, Steels such as Mega Scizor and it's resistance to moves such as Mega Gardevoir's Hyper Voice which have also become more common in the transition has only served to make Volcarona even more of a powerhouse today than it was yesterday. Basically, what I'm saying is Volcarona hasn't been buffed per se in the transition, but it can take advantage of the new metagame trends to become an increasingly dominant force thanks to the reasons Bludz posted above.

Regarding Weavile, basically everything Bludz said and also I'm not 100% sure but I think the dominance of Tanky Garchomp, Gliscor and Landorus (and, at the risk of repeating Bludz, the rise of other things such as Torn-T and offense generally) played a huge part in this. What Weavile has over other Ice types is an incredible speed tier and STAB Knock Off. In addition, and I could be wrong here, but I don't think the combo of Knock Off + Icicle Crash + Low Kick was legal in XY, and that's a very good combo to have typewise, especially considering the STAB Knock Off (this is pretty big). It also helps that it can run Poison Jab or Pursuit if it wants. So again, Weavile takes advantage of new metagame trends, but the STAB Knock Off and recently even more flexible fourth slot which lets it hit whatever the hell it wants also probably played a part in getting it moved up.

All I say on Clefable is that S-Rank is not reserved just for the Pokemon that shit on all the other Pokemon with their raw offensive power, and echo what Bludz said in the post directly above.

Forgive me for the long-ass post.
TL;DR: new metagame trends in ORAS compared to XY, in addition to being very good Pokemon anyway, are the primary reasons why these Pokemon moved up. Although they themselves haven't changed much in the transition, this is a new environment now, and one which is far more favourable to them. The rankings reflect the situation of the metagame currently and how well each Pokemon thrives in said situation, rather than how powerful or not individual Pokemon are on paper(if this was the case Mega Ampharos would probably be somewhere in A, for example. This is just an example to try and make the point clearer, don't hurt me guys).
 
I'll second Mamoswine for A- The frosty mammoth has always had enough tools to be useful in any metagame in my eyes, from the blessed dual STABs, decent speed, good bulk, good abilities, and good move pool. Having the strongest Ice Shard (outside Mega Abomasnow, but only by 2 points) will never not be useful. Can also guarantee Stealth Rock between Oblivious and Focus Sash if you need it, and with great moves like Freeze Dry and Knock Off, it has something for virtually any switch in. I don't think it is ever not useful and can always pull some weight.
 
This may very well be a stretch but I want to nominate Alakazam from B+ --> A-. I was hesitant to do this especially since Alakazam was previously nominated for B+ not long ago, but I find Alakazam comparable to other A- mons in some of the ways it has recently been influencing the metagame as of late. One of its strengths previously noted is its ability to put in work and trouble every playstyle so far. Alakazam sports a combination of sitting in a very excellent speed tier, great utility moves that it can put to great effect due to magic guard such as putting a quick stop to a threat like dd mega altaria or dd mega Zard X courtesy of the t wave, while also, like its mega counterpart, being a nuisance to both balance/stall due to awesome speed and abilty to fire off powerful lo boosted attacks and being impossible to just simply wear down. Its combinations of amazing speed, power, and just enough of the moves it gets allows it to work as an emergency check to say rp lando-I or subcm keldeo, etc. that quite a few offensive teams benefit from lately. Again I am satisfied with Alakazam staying B+ but I can see this thing being slightly higher in A-.
 
I certainly can't disagree with your assessment Magis4Life Alakazam has a very easy time justifying a spot on numerous teams due to a great speed tier and attack power, combined with a guaranteed survival rate thanks to Focus Sash/Magic Guard, and fantastic offensive overage and support options. Whether you simply want it for its sheer speed as a means to threaten Gengar, Keldeo, Landorus, etc. or an emergency check to DD sweepers, or stall breaker with Taunt/Encore, Alakazam has got you covered. A- sounds absolutely justified to me
 
Alakazam its simply so good right now, the sash set its good for parahaxing a set up sweeper and whatever u want, but the real set that i want to talk about its the life orb set, his wall breaking power its so high that he 2kos specially defensive mega scisor after rocks with focus blast, fact is that between all his coverage move (focus blast, dazzlin gleam, energy ball, hidden power ice/fire, shadow ball) and his supporting moves (knock off, calm mind, sub, thunder wave, recover, taunt, encore) u have a wall breaker that has no real counters u lure on mandibuzz and mega sableye with dazzlin gleam, chansey hates taunt/knock off/ psyshock/ encore/ calm mind, steels hate focus blast/hidden power fire, psiquicos are destroyed by shadowball, etc

Also having magic guard its important in a metagame dominated by hazards and burns, i want to show u a replay how calm mind recover alakazam destroys stall teams but i need to go home first.
 

tehy

Banned deucer.
I used a team with Life Orb Alakazam to get suspect reqs; it didn't always do well, it gets revenged a bit easily, and it's not overwhelmingly strong. And yet, it performs so well against balance, just 2HKOing basically everything, outspeeding a lot of things, and of course not caring about hazards and making a nice switch-in to Will-o-Wisp. I was initially skeptical of Life Orb Alakazam, and although it can be a bit inconsistent (especially with Focus Blast's hit rate), it's also performed incredibly in a lot of matches.

Personally I used Substitute in the last moveslot; it's great to reduce Alakazam's need to predict switch-ins, as it can theoretically 2HKO most 'mons, but many things like say, Latias, who can tank a Psychic / Focus Blast + Shadow Ball but not 2 Shadow Balls can end up giving it problems. Of course, Substitute primarily lets it beat Bisharp (although ladder is uncomfortably real with Sucker Punch)
 
Alakazam is great right now, having a mon in Offense that cannot be straight OHKOed(which allows you to switch more comfortably in some matches, something Offense based teams really appreciate.) and has an incresible offensive presence because of its speed,coverage and good special attack, I could see it in A- tbh.

Also lol, I don't see CharX dropping, it has access to 120BP moves on both of his STABS(AND Tough Claws boost), both of which are usable and complement greatly each other(since only Heatran resists them and thanks to Landos all over the place is becoming less common.), add that he is immune to burns(a blessingfor physical attackers) and you will see why it should not be dropping anytime soon.
 
Victini rank is only b +? very few things come to a tier of victini v create band, besides having things like bolt strike, or turn for momentum and zen headbutt or brick breack.
252+ Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 248 HP / 216+ Def Rotom-W: 142-168 (46.8 - 55.4%) -- 17.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gyarados: 162-191 (48.9 - 57.7%) -- 95.7% chance to 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 242-285 (60.3 - 71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Landorus-T: 210-247 (54.9 - 64.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
 
Victini rank is only b +? very few things come to a tier of victini v create band, besides having things like bolt strike, or turn for momentum and zen headbutt or brick breack.
252+ Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 248 HP / 216+ Def Rotom-W: 142-168 (46.8 - 55.4%) -- 17.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gyarados: 162-191 (48.9 - 57.7%) -- 95.7% chance to 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 242-285 (60.3 - 71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Landorus-T: 210-247 (54.9 - 64.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
I believe there was a discussion about why several times in the past.
 
Victini rank is only b +? very few things come to a tier of victini v create band, besides having things like bolt strike, or turn for momentum and zen headbutt or brick breack.
252+ Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 248 HP / 216+ Def Rotom-W: 142-168 (46.8 - 55.4%) -- 17.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gyarados: 162-191 (48.9 - 57.7%) -- 95.7% chance to 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 242-285 (60.3 - 71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Landorus-T: 210-247 (54.9 - 64.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Victini has been debated alot, but some of your calcs aren't even helping your case.
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. -1 0 HP / 4 Def Victini: 356-422 (104.3 - 123.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. -1 0 HP / 4 Def Victini: 236-282 (69.2 - 82.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Azumarill is a great check to v-create tini bc Aqua Jet destroys it, especially after rocks, making you go for the bolt strike to beat azu.
Victini is fine at B+
 
Victini rank is only b +? very few things come to a tier of victini v create band, besides having things like bolt strike, or turn for momentum and zen headbutt or brick breack.
252+ Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 248 HP / 216+ Def Rotom-W: 142-168 (46.8 - 55.4%) -- 17.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gyarados: 162-191 (48.9 - 57.7%) -- 95.7% chance to 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 242-285 (60.3 - 71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Landorus-T: 210-247 (54.9 - 64.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Well, you see the thing is that although V-Create is very powerful, it lowers your Speed and defenses. When you are on -1 defenses, all the 'mons you showed calcs for there will OHKO Vicitini. Victini won't win against any of those 'mons if it goes for V-Create. So I don't really see why you brought up damage calcs against those Pokemon. Victini is still very good, but it is not A-rank material.

Also, as the others here have stated, this has been discussed before, so I don't see a point in us creating a big debate about this now, so let's just let it be and keep Victini in B+
 
Victini has been debated alot, but some of your calcs aren't even helping your case.
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. -1 0 HP / 4 Def Victini: 356-422 (104.3 - 123.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. -1 0 HP / 4 Def Victini: 236-282 (69.2 - 82.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Azumarill is a great check to v-create tini bc Aqua Jet destroys it, especially after rocks, making you go for the bolt strike to beat azu.
Victini is fine at B+
as it will leave victini against Azumarill to -2? I say that if you put against Ferrothorn for example, it is difficult to v create
 

p2

Banned deucer.
Victini rank is only b +? very few things come to a tier of victini v create band, besides having things like bolt strike, or turn for momentum and zen headbutt or brick breack.
252+ Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 248 HP / 216+ Def Rotom-W: 142-168 (46.8 - 55.4%) -- 17.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gyarados: 162-191 (48.9 - 57.7%) -- 95.7% chance to 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 242-285 (60.3 - 71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Landorus-T: 210-247 (54.9 - 64.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
You've left out the massive and crippling flaws for Victini though.

V-Create lowers its defenses and speed to the point where it's the easiest thing to pursuit trap ever, where even unboosted pursuits OHKO it, plus its type leaves it weak to SR, which means it can be really easy to force out and wear down. Even though it has a great movepool, great ability and a bunch of different viable sets it can run leaving it quite unpredictable, it's just held back so much by its horrible typing. It's fine in B+
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 2)

Top